Better get the microwave fired up for dinner tonight.Chilli wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:00 pm
32 rooms occupied in a Hotel with 58 rooms.
Bloody good hey!
Saffers
Handy, I don't have one police buddy.handyman wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:46 amOk Sorc, give us the official number of people killed. Let's see how that tallies with the final numbers released. Keep your police buddy out of work for a few more hours, no pressing matters at the moment.sorCrer wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:56 amSimples.
Yeeb said he had heard: 'Lots of people killed at a roadblock', from his in-laws whom he trusts. I called bullshit which it was.
There is no need to sensationalize things happening on the ground. That is how rumors spread and more trouble happens. I have no issue with Yeeb.
I worked in the magistrates courts for 5 years. FFS.
Lolzhandyman wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:46 amOk Sorc, give us the official number of people killed. Let's see how that tallies with the final numbers released. Keep your police buddy out of work for a few more hours, no pressing matters at the moment.sorCrer wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:56 amSimples.
Yeeb said he had heard: 'Lots of people killed at a roadblock', from his in-laws whom he trusts. I called bullshit which it was.
There is no need to sensationalize things happening on the ground. That is how rumors spread and more trouble happens. I have no issue with Yeeb.
I don’t believe I’m sensationalising anything , if anything the destruction has probably been underplayed and certainly over here under reported. I can totally get some chicken runner in Aus / London / wherever posting pretty racist / pray for Sa type social media stuff, but can’t quite follow why a saffa in SA would seem to be in denial just because his mate or the newspapers are not reporting it yet .In times of unrest, media sometimes gets told to keep quiet about events.
The 117 deaths the officials are mentioning right now is unlikely to be the final tally, even if it is it’s still double that of the Sharpeville massacre and therefore a tad worrying if occurring outside your house.
Could well be if they find a body in a ditch and no ID because he’s been pilfered after getting a round in the chest (or head if Sards boy is around) and nobody ID’s the body, then it doesn’t get counted.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.news ... n-20210715
At least 20 killed in Phoenix alone.
Last edited by Yeeb on Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Translation: This is why these toys are importantYeeb wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:02 am Also, am seeing the somewhat predictable Twitter and Facebook ‘white lives matter, let’s see how long it takes for Facebook to take this down ‘ type guff, or the Trump = good, Ramphoss = bad’ type memes. Is that the reaction to the reaction , or the reaction to the reaction to the reaction ?
Anyhows - have some Ozzy man review worst looter
- Toy.jpeg (106.78 KiB) Viewed 1149 times
Be that as it may, I really doubt they have official numbers of people killed. Yeeb's numbers may be off, but when bullets are flying close to your home, then people are going to panic. At least give them that.sorCrer wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:31 pmHandy, I don't have one police buddy.handyman wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:46 amOk Sorc, give us the official number of people killed. Let's see how that tallies with the final numbers released. Keep your police buddy out of work for a few more hours, no pressing matters at the moment.sorCrer wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:56 am
Simples.
Yeeb said he had heard: 'Lots of people killed at a roadblock', from his in-laws whom he trusts. I called bullshit which it was.
There is no need to sensationalize things happening on the ground. That is how rumors spread and more trouble happens. I have no issue with Yeeb.
I worked in the magistrates courts for 5 years. FFS.
I would rather direct my anger and disgust at the people ruining our country.
Springboks, Stormers and WP supporter.
It's 91 in KZN covering an area of 1000's of square kilometers many of which were killed in the chaos including 3 who dies when beer crates toppled on them. There is no such thing as a body doesn't get counted.Yeeb wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:32 pmLolzhandyman wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:46 amOk Sorc, give us the official number of people killed. Let's see how that tallies with the final numbers released. Keep your police buddy out of work for a few more hours, no pressing matters at the moment.sorCrer wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:56 am
Simples.
Yeeb said he had heard: 'Lots of people killed at a roadblock', from his in-laws whom he trusts. I called bullshit which it was.
There is no need to sensationalize things happening on the ground. That is how rumors spread and more trouble happens. I have no issue with Yeeb.
I don’t believe I’m sensationalising anything , if anything the destruction has probably been underplayed and certainly over here under reported. I can totally get some chicken runner in Aus / London / wherever posting pretty racist / pray for Sa type social media stuff, but can’t quite follow why a saffa in SA would seem to be in denial just because his mate or the newspapers are not reporting it yet .In times of unrest, media sometimes gets told to keep quiet about events.
The 117 deaths the officials are mentioning right now is unlikely to be the final tally, even if it is it’s still double that of the Sharpeville massacre and therefore a tad worrying if occurring outside your house.
Could well be if they find a body in a ditch and no ID because he’s been pilfered after getting a round in the chest (or head if Sards boy is around) and nobody ID’s the body, then it doesn’t get counted.
Blake wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:33 pmTranslation: This is why these toys are importantYeeb wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:02 am Also, am seeing the somewhat predictable Twitter and Facebook ‘white lives matter, let’s see how long it takes for Facebook to take this down ‘ type guff, or the Trump = good, Ramphoss = bad’ type memes. Is that the reaction to the reaction , or the reaction to the reaction to the reaction ?
Anyhows - have some Ozzy man review worst looter
Toy.jpeg
Keep digging champ, only 1.5 times Sharpeville massacre then hey - scarcely worth mentioning really I suppose …sorCrer wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:36 pmIt's 91 in KZN covering an area of 1000's of square kilometers many of which were killed in the chaos including 3 who dies when beer crates toppled on them. There is no such thing as a body doesn't get counted.Yeeb wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:32 pmLolzhandyman wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:46 am
Ok Sorc, give us the official number of people killed. Let's see how that tallies with the final numbers released. Keep your police buddy out of work for a few more hours, no pressing matters at the moment.
I don’t believe I’m sensationalising anything , if anything the destruction has probably been underplayed and certainly over here under reported. I can totally get some chicken runner in Aus / London / wherever posting pretty racist / pray for Sa type social media stuff, but can’t quite follow why a saffa in SA would seem to be in denial just because his mate or the newspapers are not reporting it yet .In times of unrest, media sometimes gets told to keep quiet about events.
The 117 deaths the officials are mentioning right now is unlikely to be the final tally, even if it is it’s still double that of the Sharpeville massacre and therefore a tad worrying if occurring outside your house.
Could well be if they find a body in a ditch and no ID because he’s been pilfered after getting a round in the chest (or head if Sards boy is around) and nobody ID’s the body, then it doesn’t get counted.
Your cop buddy will have disposed of a few stiffs on the quiet easily, or his minions will have - every new year a dozen kids get lost on the beaches and not reported. That part of the world isn’t reknowned for data accuracy , but it IS reknowned for shooting accuracy, and if the afrikaaners , Indians, saps and the private guards are running low on ammo…
I was just going to comment that I can't because Sards has it this week.
I think it was pi. 3.14159265359 etc. I can quote it to about 80 numbers. It is a fascinating infinite series.
You are half similarGlobus wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:20 pmI think it was pi. 3.14159265359 etc. I can quote it to about 80 numbers. It is a fascinating infinite series.
I shall take that as a compliment! Have a look at Euler's number "e" !
I agree.sorCrer wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:56 amSimples.handyman wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:14 amI cannot understand what Sorc's deal is here?Yeeb wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:47 am
Was merely what I had heard from several people there , thought I had made that clear ? I’m totally cool about being wrong on this but unsure why you seem to have your head in the sand denying everything just because it’s not in the news or reported by your police mate ?
He’s prob been told to calm things down and not make everything public just yet.
I ask again, if 117 people killed isn’t a massacre to you , at what level do you consider a loss of life to be a massacre ? 1000 ?
Yeeb said he had heard: 'Lots of people killed at a roadblock', from his in-laws whom he trusts. I called bullshit which it was.
There is no need to sensationalize things happening on the ground. That is how rumors spread and more trouble happens. I have no issue with Yeeb.
And I was wrong to suggest that people had been shot by cops at the Springfield Macro.
Although, I did say that I wasn't sure whether the report (which I'd heard a voice message of) was true.
In my defence, it was at the height of the rioting and, as someone living about a kilometer away from the rioting mobs in a rural area, I was a little unsettled.
Things appear to have calmed down a bit now.
The filofax of Durban's ANC instigated anarchy shit show.
This is from first hand sources I’ve spoken to, or verified from multiple sources. (Capies, Vaalies, and Saucer will need Google maps).
By the 15th there was only sporadic attempts to breach community blockades by small groups of looters, it's mostly over in Durban for now. SANDF did fokkol. Metro Police did fokkol. Some SAPS did a huge amount, most did fokkol. Some police even ran away whilst residents stood their ground against massive looter mobs easily numbering in the 100s. Private security and residents carried almost everything, they’ve been privately told by SAPS/SANDF to keep manning the barricades for now. On the 16th SANDF were saluting guys manning barricades as they drove past in Rooikats/Caspirs, even though the public statements are that barricades must come down.
Westville has been strengthening its neighbourhood watches over the last 10 years. Full liaison with SAPS through community police forums, visible show of force when volunteers patrol with SAPS, proper equipment (body armour/legal guns). Before this kak went down Westville could deploy 60 bakkies and 1000 volunteers, from 14 neighbourhood watches.
Westville was zoned as a white area back in the bad old days, today it’s middle class half white and a quarter each Indian and black. From Westville on the night of the 11th/12th, heavy gunfire lasting all night could be heard coming from the north in the direction of Reservoir Hills/Newlands West/Newlands East.
Back in the bad old days those areas were zoned for Indians (Newlands East also zoned for coloureds), today Newlands West is mostly black and around one third Indian, Newlands East is the also mostly black and one third coloured, Reservoir Hills is majority Indian. It’s working class/lower-middle class and low density. To the north of that area is KwaMashu which is a high-density former black township with a much larger population. Reservoir Hills shopping centre was stripped by looters of everything by the morning of the 12th, but hadn’t been set on fire. Indians put up a massive fight through the night on the 11th/12th. Reservoir Hills mall was eventually burned to the ground on the night of 13th/14th, it had been stripped of goods days before, it seemed spiteful.
The Queen Nandi Drive area (Newlands East) is utterly fucked. Warehouses have been attacked and burned down since the night of 12th/13th (Samsung warehouse and other warehouses), that same night looters fired live rounds at private security and SAPS on the road and there was a gun battle. Also on that night resident militias stopped a large truck that had been stolen and loaded with loot in that area, the residents arrested them, residents also smashed looter cars they discovered. A huge Game/Massmart warehouse, easily the biggest warehouse in that area, was looted and burned down on the night of the 13th/14th. The road looked like something out of a warzone, shit the looters couldn’t drag away dumped in the road, shot up and abandoned looter vehicles, vehicles the looters stripped for parts, abandoned and damaged forklifts used to load looter vehicles. SAPS regularly went there and shot the looters out, when SAPS left the looters came back. The size of the looting mob there during the day on the 13th was 1000s strong, looter mobs were still attacking into the morning of the 14th. On the 15th it was more secure but there was still the odd looter straggler hanging around. Residents started cleaning up on the 15th. On the 16th after it was all over, SANDF patrolled this area with Rooikats.
During all this looting and burning north of Westville, KwaMashu’s mall was looted and burned down.
From the 11th the Westville community deployed everything, which because they were prepared was considerable and organised. The off-duty police/off-duty private security/ex-military that live there are part of the neighbourhood watch. Every road in is blockaded and manned by armed men. Within the suburb there’s roadblocks. By mid-week the defence had grown to nearly every corner having a team of guys armed with whatever they could get (baseball bats, pickaxe handles, pangas, sledgehammers, axes) that weren’t previously involved with neighbourhood watch. Easily over 1000 men defended Westville, working in shifts day and night.
On the 12th during the day, kombis were detected with their plates covered/removed scouting the area around Chesterville (partly in Westville, partly not). Chesterville is working/lower-middle class and mostly black, obviously that community detected this so they’ve been angry since at least then. There’s different descriptions of what the men in these kombis were up to, whatever the case it wasn’t good and in the chaos there does seem to have been some planning. The rumour/theory was that Westville would be targeted next, and that the attack would come through Chesterville as it’s an easy walk from Chesterville into Westville proper. Warehouses in Chesterville were being looted during the day on the 11th and into the 12th, including a Dunlop tyre warehouse. 1000s of looters and 100s of vehicles parking up to load loot.
There’s a video of taxi drivers that forced a group of looters to strip naked and crawl around a petrol garage forecourt on all fours like animals, one guy’s arse in another’s face, whilst the taxi drivers mocked them and laughed. It’s been widely claimed that’s Westville, it was in Chesterville.
It was on the 12th when SAPS requested the help of all armed civilians, there wasn’t a public statement but it happened, through community groups/neighbourhood watches. Around then, SAPS ran out of ammunition and asked private security companies to resupply them, private security paid for and airlifted in 10,000s of rounds into Durban (even avoiding the airport) for SAPS. From the 12th when SAPS made their request for support, residents manning roadblocks started arresting looters trying to get through. Surrounding looter vehicles whilst giving their vehicles a panel beating, forcing the occupants out of their vehicles at gunpoint to the ground beside the road, where they were cable tied ready for collection by SAPS. There’s easily been 100s of arrests made by civilians.
On the night of the 12th/13th Westville neighbourhood watch and private security, blockaded the Harry Gwala N3 junction both directions (8 lanes) to deny access from the N3 to The Pavilion. Bakkies lined up on the road with armed men on them. They did this and made other roadblocks around there to save The Pavilion and Westville Hospital. There were some looter mob attempts to get into the buildings especially the hospital, those attempts failed and looters mobs were forced to leave. The efforts of Westville residents saved the hospital and Pavilion. During the day on the 13th SANDF patrolled that area, after the hard work was done.
A lot of police and military helicopters had been flying over Westville since the 12th but this was the first SANDF ground presence. Other than this Westville remained on its own into the 15th, relying only on residents.
The Westville community blockade on N3 junction was still holding into the day on the 14th, but looters got close to Pavillion from the south. Containers were being looted at a warehouse/logistics area adjacent to the Pavillion during the day on the 14th, some say one of the things they were looting exploded and the fireball was seen from the blockade (unstable chemicals?), there definitely was a fire and massive amount of smoke. SAPS took a look around after that.
Westwood mall, is another Westville mall that was defended, and is almost untouched. Next to Westwood mall looters and police had a gun battle on the N2 on the 12th both shooting live rounds at each other. There was a lot of arrests there on the night of the 12th/13th (looters flat on the ground face down hands cable tied behind their backs, ready for collection by SAPS). Looters did gain entry to the mall briefly by breaking through the metal fencing, it was this mall where the looter was filmed falling out the window. Westwood mall narrowly survived being destroyed.
On the 15th there was queues stretching 2km to buy food at Westville malls and shops (it takes an entire day queuing to buy food, some slept in queues on the 14th/15th), almost every mall and shop north and east of Westville is looted or burned down. Fuck knows how far people from KwaMashu are going to travel to buy food from now on.
On the night of the 11th/12th south of Westville in Queensburgh, there’s video of residents arresting looters (some have said this is Westville, it is not). Queensburgh is middleclass-ish for the most part, but there’s not much to loot. There’s a really tiny CBD and the rest is residential. In the video only one of them knew what they were doing, he’s shouting at the others that only armed men should approach the vehicle, they get the looters on the ground, then he shouts "no filming" as they’re flagging down a police car to take the arrested looters away. If you’re watching video of something, that’s always a giveaway that those people are clueless. This is a really crazy situation nothing should‘ve been filmed and shared.
South of Queensburgh there’s Chatsworth. Zoned as an Indian area in the bad old days, and still very much majority Indian today. Chatsworth is a mix of working class and middle class. Immediately south of Chatsworth is Umlazi the largest high-density former black township in Durban, at half a million people. They’re separated by a river in a valley and very hilly terrain, they’re right next to each other but it’s an effort to get from Chatsworth proper to Umlazi proper, you can’t just wonder about and accidentally go from one into the other, it has to be a very deliberate journey. Chatsworth like Queensburgh also has little to loot.
Looters were rocking up in Chatsworth, and attempting to break into homes. There’s a lot of rumours/stories about what’s happened in Chatsworth. But looter vehicles were being petrol bombed, the use of petrol bombs in Indian areas against looters seems common, but only in Chatsworth do I know for sure it happened. Burns victims are way up at Durban hospitals and there’s a video of a guy who has been petrol bombed with his skin hanging off, so there's evidence it happened generally. One Chatsworth neighbourhood watch member was killed by looters. Chatsworth’s community sports centre was burned down on the night of the 11th/12th. The Shall Cross shopping centre was looted on the night of the 12th/13th, some say it was then burned down. SANDF patrolled there on the night of the 13th/14th, after all the major shit had happened.
Mobs of looters were stripping warehouses in Lamontville (a periphery part of Chatsworth) during the day on the 14th, and the warehouses and industrial areas on the South Coast Road adjacent to Umlazi. It was the usual, 1000s of people loading up 100s of often expensive vehicles. A stretch of the South Coast Road before the river became a looters car park, all 6 lanes. Just off the South Coast Road, Montclair mall was stripped by looters on the 14th during the day, as were small/medium family run type SMMEs on South Coast Road some of which were also burned down. It was a feeding frenzy in that area on the 14th, SANDF was deployed by then and didn’t try to stop them. Isipingo (a suburb adjacent to Umlazi) market was looted and burned down on the night of the 15th/16th, a city owned building housing 15 SMME units.
During all this activity Umlazi’s mall was totally stripped by looters whilst under gunfire, the actual building is still standing apparently.
To the south east everything between Westville and the Bluff has been hit hard. A lot of those areas had many small family run type SMMEs that were looted. Queensmead Mall, Southway Mall, Davenport Centre Glenwood, Glenwood Spar and Village, Ultra Liquors, Musgrave Centre shopping mall, all these were stripped by looters and partly damaged, starting on the 11th during the day and stretching into the night of the 12th/13th. Glenwood has no unlooted malls. There was also a lot of general chaos and terrified residents barricading themselves into their homes in the Berea. During the day on the 13th residents formed militias and started guarding each street corner with whatever they had (baseball bats etc), this happened all along the Berea (each area/suburb of the Berea is different, with no racial group in the majority and a wide range of social classes), some streets started constructing blockades to completely prevent entry. it’s not an easy area to defend from looter mobs because there’s so many access points. Some of the videos of militias using weapons to smash up looter cars in the road whilst the driver/passengers were still inside, arresting police who were looting, and cable tying looters to railings along the road (Musgrave militia), are from that first night militias defended the Berea on the 13th/14th.
Street militias calmed things down after the night of the 13th/14th, much less gunfire in Glenwood. Still looting in the area on the 14th, smoke coming from the direction of the Berea during the day on the 14th and distant sounds of gunfire coming from there also. Some small Glenwood shops reopened on the 15th for a limited time to sell food, shoppers were robbed of their shopping outside, the robbers were duly forced to leave by militias. SANDF deployed Caspirs to the Berea in the evening on the 15th.
To the east of the Berea is the Bluff, it doesn’t have many access points and is easier to defend. It’s working class/lower middle class and about one third each coloured/Indian/white. Whites from there are infamously rough and tough, a well earned reputation. During the day on the 12th they got volunteers together, about 200 men with baseball bats/pickaxe handles/axes etc and some with firearms. On the night of the 12th/13th, they defended their suburb and malls. There’s video of one beating they gave a looter, many others were beaten. Any looter who went there got heavily fucked up, looter cars were severely vandalised too but that happened everywhere. The Bluff was untouched.
To the east of Westville (north of Berea) there’s Overport which refers to many suburbs, similar to the Berea quite a range of classes and every racial group but Overport is much more Indian. A Mosque in Mayville which did a lot of community work feeding people was burned down on the 12th. There’s lots of rumours/stories about Sydenham (working class mostly Indian with a coloured minority), it’s the usual rumours about any working class Indian area that they petrol bombed and shot looters. The video of the private security bakkie with Indians riding on the back shooting looters (seemed like non-lethal rounds, may not have been real guns), before the bakkie stops and guys get out to beat looters with baseball bats, there’s been claims that video was in Chatsworth or Phoenix, it was a middle class part of Overport and those looters had been trying to break into homes. On the 15th Indians from Gauteng resupplied Overport with essential food (bread), some of that food was given away for free to whoever turned up and asked.
Along the Umgeni Road on the 13th during the day, rows of businesses were looted (Marko, Value Centre, there’s a lot of shops and SMME businesses along that road), as is now the custom huge crowds of looters and expensive cars parked up. All of that was totally undefended by anyone, no SAPS or anyone else. The attack on the large Marko was particularly frenzied, even parts of the building itself were looted. The Springfield Park/Umgeni Road area was stripped by the morning of the 14th.
To the west of Westville is Pinetown/New Germany. There’s a lot of warehouses and industrial there, it’s really a factory district. By all accounts it’s totally fucked. A lot of New Germany’s shops/warehouses/industrial have been looted, some say burned down too but it’s hard getting exact details. Pinecrest Centre mall in Pinetown was looted on the 12th, it had been totally stripped by looters and was on fire (sprinklers may have flooded it and put out the fires). During the day on the 12th Union Main Centre (shopping precinct) and shops nearby were looted, there were massive mobs of looters and gunfire in Pinetown during the night of the 12th/13th. By the morning of the 13th the Nichols Arcade (business park) was stripped of everything by looters (all SMME family owned type businesses). The place some of you incorrectly stated was in Stellenbosch, was actually the Distell Beverage Company in New Germany, it was looted then burned down during the day on the 13th.
During the day on the 13th Pinetown residents started constructing blockades across streets entirely blocking traffic, white and black residents manning them and arming themselves with whatever they had (similar to the militias which appeared on the Berea around that time). Around the night of 14th/15th into the morning of the 15th on Goodwood Road (near SMME type warehouses/industrial units), SAPS and private security discovered a looter car park on the road and shot out all four tyres on all the cars/bakkies/vans/trucks, it’s now a huge pile up of cars with flat tyres loaded with loot. SAPS seems to be impounding the vehicles.
A little further west there’s Hillcrest/Waterfall, a middle class/upper class area and 85%+ white. Looters stripped Watercrest mall over the 12th and 13th. Other shops were also hit. Self storage units in Waterfall were also looted/burned including malicious damage to sentimental items (photo albums etc). By the 13th it was impossible to even buy a loaf of bread in Hillcrest, because everything was either stripped by looters or closed. On the 14th some shops that weren’t looted re-opened for a limited time to sell food and did again on the 15th (some staffed by community volunteers), but there’s massive queues and no resupply, once the shelves are empty that’s it. There was a lot of smoke visible in the distance from Hillcrest on the 14th (coming from Pinetown/New Germany).
Further down the N3 from New Germany/Pinetown/Hillcrest there’s a large Value Logistics warehouse before you get to Cato Ridge. It’s a location is in the middle of nowhere without pedestrian access. During the day on the 13th 100s of vehicles (maybe even 1000) parked up on the N3 just outside Cato Ridge, in both directions on the outside lanes and hard shoulder, the drivers and passengers then looted that Value Logistics warehouse and loaded up their vehicles. The N3 was turned into a looter’s car park for about 1km or 2km covering 6 lanes, for an entire day. They went about their looting unmolested.
Further west is PMB. The video some of you are saying is Indians burning shacks in Chatsworth is in PMB, and it’s unclear Indians actually burned them (shacks are on fire, Indians are watching, that’s it). PMB’s water treatment facility has been burned down. The massive Checkers/Brookside mall in PMB burned down on the 12th. 5 dead looters have been found around Marko in PMB, crushed to death in looter stampedes.
Other areas.
Durban CBD is fucked, mass looting over days. SANDF patrolled there first on the night of the 12th/13th and it’s the one place that’s always had some police presence also. There were still buildings being set alight on the night of the 14th/15th including the Workshop Shopping Centre burning down (an old historic railway building). Street clean up started on the 14th.
To the north haven’t heard much about Mount Edgecombe and Umhlanga (small populations about half white the rest mostly Indian). Mostly SMME industrial estate units/warehouses were looted in Cornubia/Mount Edgecombe, some set on fire. Umhlanga residents are manning blockades, resident organisations there are organised. There’s a lot of rumours and stories about what’s happened in Phoenix (90%+ Indian area), there's certainly a lot video of Indian militias taking action but placing it all isn't easy. Durban's Indian community has a bit of a gangster issue, mostly the rumours concern looters unknowingly targeting the wrong sort of businesses that seemed like soft targets (just look like normal family run SMMEs), but turn out to be something entirely different which is when very serious Indian individuals emerge from said premises and looters die. The current count for looters killed in Phoenix is 20.
To the south, Toti isn't on my radar, shouldn't have filmed themselves though no good can come of that. Further south Umkomaas has been hit hard, lots of people saying many buildings have burned down.
Some advice.
Sardy is talking about guns and barricading his home. That’s not the lesson.
What anyone in SA needs to do, is form or join a neighbourhood watch and get organised with other people in their community, cooperating with the police through a community policing forum. The situation in Durban isn’t really new, smaller versions have happened before over the last 10 years (the Coligny riot 2017, an ANC factional riot in Pretoria 2016, the Cape farm riots 2012), each time the rule of law vanished and suddenly people were on their own against mobs. Standing together makes you safer, in Coligny what Boere protected did not burn down. It's probably what the ANC losing power looks like, maybe Capies will avoid it because it's already happened there.
You don’t want to be in the community that was unable to do anything in the first 24 hours, then 48 hours, then by 72 hours came out after everything had been looted/burned. You want to be in the community that was organised and had 100s of volunteers ready, who the police knew and trusted, who immediately stopped shit ever getting bad and saved infrastructure. With effort the community eventually has an inventory of equipment (everything from body armour and bakkies people are happy to share, to drones and night vision binoculars for surveillance), a roster of members and their skills/training, etc. You cannot buy 1000 volunteers, hiring that much private security would cost at least R200m per year.
The places in Durban that could afford private security and relied only on it and police, are now fucked, all those communities were also forced onto the streets with crude weapons to man barricades anyway. Westville stood alone for 4 days and nights and is almost entirely untouched, in the middle of total chaos and destruction to its west, north, and east.
This is from first hand sources I’ve spoken to, or verified from multiple sources. (Capies, Vaalies, and Saucer will need Google maps).
By the 15th there was only sporadic attempts to breach community blockades by small groups of looters, it's mostly over in Durban for now. SANDF did fokkol. Metro Police did fokkol. Some SAPS did a huge amount, most did fokkol. Some police even ran away whilst residents stood their ground against massive looter mobs easily numbering in the 100s. Private security and residents carried almost everything, they’ve been privately told by SAPS/SANDF to keep manning the barricades for now. On the 16th SANDF were saluting guys manning barricades as they drove past in Rooikats/Caspirs, even though the public statements are that barricades must come down.
Westville has been strengthening its neighbourhood watches over the last 10 years. Full liaison with SAPS through community police forums, visible show of force when volunteers patrol with SAPS, proper equipment (body armour/legal guns). Before this kak went down Westville could deploy 60 bakkies and 1000 volunteers, from 14 neighbourhood watches.
Westville was zoned as a white area back in the bad old days, today it’s middle class half white and a quarter each Indian and black. From Westville on the night of the 11th/12th, heavy gunfire lasting all night could be heard coming from the north in the direction of Reservoir Hills/Newlands West/Newlands East.
Back in the bad old days those areas were zoned for Indians (Newlands East also zoned for coloureds), today Newlands West is mostly black and around one third Indian, Newlands East is the also mostly black and one third coloured, Reservoir Hills is majority Indian. It’s working class/lower-middle class and low density. To the north of that area is KwaMashu which is a high-density former black township with a much larger population. Reservoir Hills shopping centre was stripped by looters of everything by the morning of the 12th, but hadn’t been set on fire. Indians put up a massive fight through the night on the 11th/12th. Reservoir Hills mall was eventually burned to the ground on the night of 13th/14th, it had been stripped of goods days before, it seemed spiteful.
The Queen Nandi Drive area (Newlands East) is utterly fucked. Warehouses have been attacked and burned down since the night of 12th/13th (Samsung warehouse and other warehouses), that same night looters fired live rounds at private security and SAPS on the road and there was a gun battle. Also on that night resident militias stopped a large truck that had been stolen and loaded with loot in that area, the residents arrested them, residents also smashed looter cars they discovered. A huge Game/Massmart warehouse, easily the biggest warehouse in that area, was looted and burned down on the night of the 13th/14th. The road looked like something out of a warzone, shit the looters couldn’t drag away dumped in the road, shot up and abandoned looter vehicles, vehicles the looters stripped for parts, abandoned and damaged forklifts used to load looter vehicles. SAPS regularly went there and shot the looters out, when SAPS left the looters came back. The size of the looting mob there during the day on the 13th was 1000s strong, looter mobs were still attacking into the morning of the 14th. On the 15th it was more secure but there was still the odd looter straggler hanging around. Residents started cleaning up on the 15th. On the 16th after it was all over, SANDF patrolled this area with Rooikats.
During all this looting and burning north of Westville, KwaMashu’s mall was looted and burned down.
From the 11th the Westville community deployed everything, which because they were prepared was considerable and organised. The off-duty police/off-duty private security/ex-military that live there are part of the neighbourhood watch. Every road in is blockaded and manned by armed men. Within the suburb there’s roadblocks. By mid-week the defence had grown to nearly every corner having a team of guys armed with whatever they could get (baseball bats, pickaxe handles, pangas, sledgehammers, axes) that weren’t previously involved with neighbourhood watch. Easily over 1000 men defended Westville, working in shifts day and night.
On the 12th during the day, kombis were detected with their plates covered/removed scouting the area around Chesterville (partly in Westville, partly not). Chesterville is working/lower-middle class and mostly black, obviously that community detected this so they’ve been angry since at least then. There’s different descriptions of what the men in these kombis were up to, whatever the case it wasn’t good and in the chaos there does seem to have been some planning. The rumour/theory was that Westville would be targeted next, and that the attack would come through Chesterville as it’s an easy walk from Chesterville into Westville proper. Warehouses in Chesterville were being looted during the day on the 11th and into the 12th, including a Dunlop tyre warehouse. 1000s of looters and 100s of vehicles parking up to load loot.
There’s a video of taxi drivers that forced a group of looters to strip naked and crawl around a petrol garage forecourt on all fours like animals, one guy’s arse in another’s face, whilst the taxi drivers mocked them and laughed. It’s been widely claimed that’s Westville, it was in Chesterville.
It was on the 12th when SAPS requested the help of all armed civilians, there wasn’t a public statement but it happened, through community groups/neighbourhood watches. Around then, SAPS ran out of ammunition and asked private security companies to resupply them, private security paid for and airlifted in 10,000s of rounds into Durban (even avoiding the airport) for SAPS. From the 12th when SAPS made their request for support, residents manning roadblocks started arresting looters trying to get through. Surrounding looter vehicles whilst giving their vehicles a panel beating, forcing the occupants out of their vehicles at gunpoint to the ground beside the road, where they were cable tied ready for collection by SAPS. There’s easily been 100s of arrests made by civilians.
On the night of the 12th/13th Westville neighbourhood watch and private security, blockaded the Harry Gwala N3 junction both directions (8 lanes) to deny access from the N3 to The Pavilion. Bakkies lined up on the road with armed men on them. They did this and made other roadblocks around there to save The Pavilion and Westville Hospital. There were some looter mob attempts to get into the buildings especially the hospital, those attempts failed and looters mobs were forced to leave. The efforts of Westville residents saved the hospital and Pavilion. During the day on the 13th SANDF patrolled that area, after the hard work was done.
A lot of police and military helicopters had been flying over Westville since the 12th but this was the first SANDF ground presence. Other than this Westville remained on its own into the 15th, relying only on residents.
The Westville community blockade on N3 junction was still holding into the day on the 14th, but looters got close to Pavillion from the south. Containers were being looted at a warehouse/logistics area adjacent to the Pavillion during the day on the 14th, some say one of the things they were looting exploded and the fireball was seen from the blockade (unstable chemicals?), there definitely was a fire and massive amount of smoke. SAPS took a look around after that.
Westwood mall, is another Westville mall that was defended, and is almost untouched. Next to Westwood mall looters and police had a gun battle on the N2 on the 12th both shooting live rounds at each other. There was a lot of arrests there on the night of the 12th/13th (looters flat on the ground face down hands cable tied behind their backs, ready for collection by SAPS). Looters did gain entry to the mall briefly by breaking through the metal fencing, it was this mall where the looter was filmed falling out the window. Westwood mall narrowly survived being destroyed.
On the 15th there was queues stretching 2km to buy food at Westville malls and shops (it takes an entire day queuing to buy food, some slept in queues on the 14th/15th), almost every mall and shop north and east of Westville is looted or burned down. Fuck knows how far people from KwaMashu are going to travel to buy food from now on.
On the night of the 11th/12th south of Westville in Queensburgh, there’s video of residents arresting looters (some have said this is Westville, it is not). Queensburgh is middleclass-ish for the most part, but there’s not much to loot. There’s a really tiny CBD and the rest is residential. In the video only one of them knew what they were doing, he’s shouting at the others that only armed men should approach the vehicle, they get the looters on the ground, then he shouts "no filming" as they’re flagging down a police car to take the arrested looters away. If you’re watching video of something, that’s always a giveaway that those people are clueless. This is a really crazy situation nothing should‘ve been filmed and shared.
South of Queensburgh there’s Chatsworth. Zoned as an Indian area in the bad old days, and still very much majority Indian today. Chatsworth is a mix of working class and middle class. Immediately south of Chatsworth is Umlazi the largest high-density former black township in Durban, at half a million people. They’re separated by a river in a valley and very hilly terrain, they’re right next to each other but it’s an effort to get from Chatsworth proper to Umlazi proper, you can’t just wonder about and accidentally go from one into the other, it has to be a very deliberate journey. Chatsworth like Queensburgh also has little to loot.
Looters were rocking up in Chatsworth, and attempting to break into homes. There’s a lot of rumours/stories about what’s happened in Chatsworth. But looter vehicles were being petrol bombed, the use of petrol bombs in Indian areas against looters seems common, but only in Chatsworth do I know for sure it happened. Burns victims are way up at Durban hospitals and there’s a video of a guy who has been petrol bombed with his skin hanging off, so there's evidence it happened generally. One Chatsworth neighbourhood watch member was killed by looters. Chatsworth’s community sports centre was burned down on the night of the 11th/12th. The Shall Cross shopping centre was looted on the night of the 12th/13th, some say it was then burned down. SANDF patrolled there on the night of the 13th/14th, after all the major shit had happened.
Mobs of looters were stripping warehouses in Lamontville (a periphery part of Chatsworth) during the day on the 14th, and the warehouses and industrial areas on the South Coast Road adjacent to Umlazi. It was the usual, 1000s of people loading up 100s of often expensive vehicles. A stretch of the South Coast Road before the river became a looters car park, all 6 lanes. Just off the South Coast Road, Montclair mall was stripped by looters on the 14th during the day, as were small/medium family run type SMMEs on South Coast Road some of which were also burned down. It was a feeding frenzy in that area on the 14th, SANDF was deployed by then and didn’t try to stop them. Isipingo (a suburb adjacent to Umlazi) market was looted and burned down on the night of the 15th/16th, a city owned building housing 15 SMME units.
During all this activity Umlazi’s mall was totally stripped by looters whilst under gunfire, the actual building is still standing apparently.
To the south east everything between Westville and the Bluff has been hit hard. A lot of those areas had many small family run type SMMEs that were looted. Queensmead Mall, Southway Mall, Davenport Centre Glenwood, Glenwood Spar and Village, Ultra Liquors, Musgrave Centre shopping mall, all these were stripped by looters and partly damaged, starting on the 11th during the day and stretching into the night of the 12th/13th. Glenwood has no unlooted malls. There was also a lot of general chaos and terrified residents barricading themselves into their homes in the Berea. During the day on the 13th residents formed militias and started guarding each street corner with whatever they had (baseball bats etc), this happened all along the Berea (each area/suburb of the Berea is different, with no racial group in the majority and a wide range of social classes), some streets started constructing blockades to completely prevent entry. it’s not an easy area to defend from looter mobs because there’s so many access points. Some of the videos of militias using weapons to smash up looter cars in the road whilst the driver/passengers were still inside, arresting police who were looting, and cable tying looters to railings along the road (Musgrave militia), are from that first night militias defended the Berea on the 13th/14th.
Street militias calmed things down after the night of the 13th/14th, much less gunfire in Glenwood. Still looting in the area on the 14th, smoke coming from the direction of the Berea during the day on the 14th and distant sounds of gunfire coming from there also. Some small Glenwood shops reopened on the 15th for a limited time to sell food, shoppers were robbed of their shopping outside, the robbers were duly forced to leave by militias. SANDF deployed Caspirs to the Berea in the evening on the 15th.
To the east of the Berea is the Bluff, it doesn’t have many access points and is easier to defend. It’s working class/lower middle class and about one third each coloured/Indian/white. Whites from there are infamously rough and tough, a well earned reputation. During the day on the 12th they got volunteers together, about 200 men with baseball bats/pickaxe handles/axes etc and some with firearms. On the night of the 12th/13th, they defended their suburb and malls. There’s video of one beating they gave a looter, many others were beaten. Any looter who went there got heavily fucked up, looter cars were severely vandalised too but that happened everywhere. The Bluff was untouched.
To the east of Westville (north of Berea) there’s Overport which refers to many suburbs, similar to the Berea quite a range of classes and every racial group but Overport is much more Indian. A Mosque in Mayville which did a lot of community work feeding people was burned down on the 12th. There’s lots of rumours/stories about Sydenham (working class mostly Indian with a coloured minority), it’s the usual rumours about any working class Indian area that they petrol bombed and shot looters. The video of the private security bakkie with Indians riding on the back shooting looters (seemed like non-lethal rounds, may not have been real guns), before the bakkie stops and guys get out to beat looters with baseball bats, there’s been claims that video was in Chatsworth or Phoenix, it was a middle class part of Overport and those looters had been trying to break into homes. On the 15th Indians from Gauteng resupplied Overport with essential food (bread), some of that food was given away for free to whoever turned up and asked.
Along the Umgeni Road on the 13th during the day, rows of businesses were looted (Marko, Value Centre, there’s a lot of shops and SMME businesses along that road), as is now the custom huge crowds of looters and expensive cars parked up. All of that was totally undefended by anyone, no SAPS or anyone else. The attack on the large Marko was particularly frenzied, even parts of the building itself were looted. The Springfield Park/Umgeni Road area was stripped by the morning of the 14th.
To the west of Westville is Pinetown/New Germany. There’s a lot of warehouses and industrial there, it’s really a factory district. By all accounts it’s totally fucked. A lot of New Germany’s shops/warehouses/industrial have been looted, some say burned down too but it’s hard getting exact details. Pinecrest Centre mall in Pinetown was looted on the 12th, it had been totally stripped by looters and was on fire (sprinklers may have flooded it and put out the fires). During the day on the 12th Union Main Centre (shopping precinct) and shops nearby were looted, there were massive mobs of looters and gunfire in Pinetown during the night of the 12th/13th. By the morning of the 13th the Nichols Arcade (business park) was stripped of everything by looters (all SMME family owned type businesses). The place some of you incorrectly stated was in Stellenbosch, was actually the Distell Beverage Company in New Germany, it was looted then burned down during the day on the 13th.
During the day on the 13th Pinetown residents started constructing blockades across streets entirely blocking traffic, white and black residents manning them and arming themselves with whatever they had (similar to the militias which appeared on the Berea around that time). Around the night of 14th/15th into the morning of the 15th on Goodwood Road (near SMME type warehouses/industrial units), SAPS and private security discovered a looter car park on the road and shot out all four tyres on all the cars/bakkies/vans/trucks, it’s now a huge pile up of cars with flat tyres loaded with loot. SAPS seems to be impounding the vehicles.
A little further west there’s Hillcrest/Waterfall, a middle class/upper class area and 85%+ white. Looters stripped Watercrest mall over the 12th and 13th. Other shops were also hit. Self storage units in Waterfall were also looted/burned including malicious damage to sentimental items (photo albums etc). By the 13th it was impossible to even buy a loaf of bread in Hillcrest, because everything was either stripped by looters or closed. On the 14th some shops that weren’t looted re-opened for a limited time to sell food and did again on the 15th (some staffed by community volunteers), but there’s massive queues and no resupply, once the shelves are empty that’s it. There was a lot of smoke visible in the distance from Hillcrest on the 14th (coming from Pinetown/New Germany).
Further down the N3 from New Germany/Pinetown/Hillcrest there’s a large Value Logistics warehouse before you get to Cato Ridge. It’s a location is in the middle of nowhere without pedestrian access. During the day on the 13th 100s of vehicles (maybe even 1000) parked up on the N3 just outside Cato Ridge, in both directions on the outside lanes and hard shoulder, the drivers and passengers then looted that Value Logistics warehouse and loaded up their vehicles. The N3 was turned into a looter’s car park for about 1km or 2km covering 6 lanes, for an entire day. They went about their looting unmolested.
Further west is PMB. The video some of you are saying is Indians burning shacks in Chatsworth is in PMB, and it’s unclear Indians actually burned them (shacks are on fire, Indians are watching, that’s it). PMB’s water treatment facility has been burned down. The massive Checkers/Brookside mall in PMB burned down on the 12th. 5 dead looters have been found around Marko in PMB, crushed to death in looter stampedes.
Other areas.
Durban CBD is fucked, mass looting over days. SANDF patrolled there first on the night of the 12th/13th and it’s the one place that’s always had some police presence also. There were still buildings being set alight on the night of the 14th/15th including the Workshop Shopping Centre burning down (an old historic railway building). Street clean up started on the 14th.
To the north haven’t heard much about Mount Edgecombe and Umhlanga (small populations about half white the rest mostly Indian). Mostly SMME industrial estate units/warehouses were looted in Cornubia/Mount Edgecombe, some set on fire. Umhlanga residents are manning blockades, resident organisations there are organised. There’s a lot of rumours and stories about what’s happened in Phoenix (90%+ Indian area), there's certainly a lot video of Indian militias taking action but placing it all isn't easy. Durban's Indian community has a bit of a gangster issue, mostly the rumours concern looters unknowingly targeting the wrong sort of businesses that seemed like soft targets (just look like normal family run SMMEs), but turn out to be something entirely different which is when very serious Indian individuals emerge from said premises and looters die. The current count for looters killed in Phoenix is 20.
To the south, Toti isn't on my radar, shouldn't have filmed themselves though no good can come of that. Further south Umkomaas has been hit hard, lots of people saying many buildings have burned down.
Some advice.
Sardy is talking about guns and barricading his home. That’s not the lesson.
What anyone in SA needs to do, is form or join a neighbourhood watch and get organised with other people in their community, cooperating with the police through a community policing forum. The situation in Durban isn’t really new, smaller versions have happened before over the last 10 years (the Coligny riot 2017, an ANC factional riot in Pretoria 2016, the Cape farm riots 2012), each time the rule of law vanished and suddenly people were on their own against mobs. Standing together makes you safer, in Coligny what Boere protected did not burn down. It's probably what the ANC losing power looks like, maybe Capies will avoid it because it's already happened there.
You don’t want to be in the community that was unable to do anything in the first 24 hours, then 48 hours, then by 72 hours came out after everything had been looted/burned. You want to be in the community that was organised and had 100s of volunteers ready, who the police knew and trusted, who immediately stopped shit ever getting bad and saved infrastructure. With effort the community eventually has an inventory of equipment (everything from body armour and bakkies people are happy to share, to drones and night vision binoculars for surveillance), a roster of members and their skills/training, etc. You cannot buy 1000 volunteers, hiring that much private security would cost at least R200m per year.
The places in Durban that could afford private security and relied only on it and police, are now fucked, all those communities were also forced onto the streets with crude weapons to man barricades anyway. Westville stood alone for 4 days and nights and is almost entirely untouched, in the middle of total chaos and destruction to its west, north, and east.
The Filofax has returned._Os_ wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:20 am The filofax of Durban's ANC instigated anarchy shit show.
This is from first hand sources I’ve spoken to, or verified from multiple sources. (Capies, Vaalies, and Saucer will need Google maps).
By the 15th there was only sporadic attempts to breach community blockades by small groups of looters, it's mostly over in Durban for now. SANDF did fokkol. Metro Police did fokkol. Some SAPS did a huge amount, most did fokkol. Some police even ran away whilst residents stood their ground against massive looter mobs easily numbering in the 100s. Private security and residents carried almost everything, they’ve been privately told by SAPS/SANDF to keep manning the barricades for now. On the 16th SANDF were saluting guys manning barricades as they drove past in Rooikats/Caspirs, even though the public statements are that barricades must come down.
Westville has been strengthening its neighbourhood watches over the last 10 years. Full liaison with SAPS through community police forums, visible show of force when volunteers patrol with SAPS, proper equipment (body armour/legal guns). Before this kak went down Westville could deploy 60 bakkies and 1000 volunteers, from 14 neighbourhood watches.
Westville was zoned as a white area back in the bad old days, today it’s middle class half white and a quarter each Indian and black. From Westville on the night of the 11th/12th, heavy gunfire lasting all night could be heard coming from the north in the direction of Reservoir Hills/Newlands West/Newlands East.
Back in the bad old days those areas were zoned for Indians (Newlands East also zoned for coloureds), today Newlands West is mostly black and around one third Indian, Newlands East is the also mostly black and one third coloured, Reservoir Hills is majority Indian. It’s working class/lower-middle class and low density. To the north of that area is KwaMashu which is a high-density former black township with a much larger population. Reservoir Hills shopping centre was stripped by looters of everything by the morning of the 12th, but hadn’t been set on fire. Indians put up a massive fight through the night on the 11th/12th. Reservoir Hills mall was eventually burned to the ground on the night of 13th/14th, it had been stripped of goods days before, it seemed spiteful.
The Queen Nandi Drive area (Newlands East) is utterly fucked. Warehouses have been attacked and burned down since the night of 12th/13th (Samsung warehouse and other warehouses), that same night looters fired live rounds at private security and SAPS on the road and there was a gun battle. Also on that night resident militias stopped a large truck that had been stolen and loaded with loot in that area, the residents arrested them, residents also smashed looter cars they discovered. A huge Game/Massmart warehouse, easily the biggest warehouse in that area, was looted and burned down on the night of the 13th/14th. The road looked like something out of a warzone, shit the looters couldn’t drag away dumped in the road, shot up and abandoned looter vehicles, vehicles the looters stripped for parts, abandoned and damaged forklifts used to load looter vehicles. SAPS regularly went there and shot the looters out, when SAPS left the looters came back. The size of the looting mob there during the day on the 13th was 1000s strong, looter mobs were still attacking into the morning of the 14th. On the 15th it was more secure but there was still the odd looter straggler hanging around. Residents started cleaning up on the 15th. On the 16th after it was all over, SANDF patrolled this area with Rooikats.
During all this looting and burning north of Westville, KwaMashu’s mall was looted and burned down.
From the 11th the Westville community deployed everything, which because they were prepared was considerable and organised. The off-duty police/off-duty private security/ex-military that live there are part of the neighbourhood watch. Every road in is blockaded and manned by armed men. Within the suburb there’s roadblocks. By mid-week the defence had grown to nearly every corner having a team of guys armed with whatever they could get (baseball bats, pickaxe handles, pangas, sledgehammers, axes) that weren’t previously involved with neighbourhood watch. Easily over 1000 men defended Westville, working in shifts day and night.
On the 12th during the day, kombis were detected with their plates covered/removed scouting the area around Chesterville (partly in Westville, partly not). Chesterville is working/lower-middle class and mostly black, obviously that community detected this so they’ve been angry since at least then. There’s different descriptions of what the men in these kombis were up to, whatever the case it wasn’t good and in the chaos there does seem to have been some planning. The rumour/theory was that Westville would be targeted next, and that the attack would come through Chesterville as it’s an easy walk from Chesterville into Westville proper. Warehouses in Chesterville were being looted during the day on the 11th and into the 12th, including a Dunlop tyre warehouse. 1000s of looters and 100s of vehicles parking up to load loot.
There’s a video of taxi drivers that forced a group of looters to strip naked and crawl around a petrol garage forecourt on all fours like animals, one guy’s arse in another’s face, whilst the taxi drivers mocked them and laughed. It’s been widely claimed that’s Westville, it was in Chesterville.
It was on the 12th when SAPS requested the help of all armed civilians, there wasn’t a public statement but it happened, through community groups/neighbourhood watches. Around then, SAPS ran out of ammunition and asked private security companies to resupply them, private security paid for and airlifted in 10,000s of rounds into Durban (even avoiding the airport) for SAPS. From the 12th when SAPS made their request for support, residents manning roadblocks started arresting looters trying to get through. Surrounding looter vehicles whilst giving their vehicles a panel beating, forcing the occupants out of their vehicles at gunpoint to the ground beside the road, where they were cable tied ready for collection by SAPS. There’s easily been 100s of arrests made by civilians.
On the night of the 12th/13th Westville neighbourhood watch and private security, blockaded the Harry Gwala N3 junction both directions (8 lanes) to deny access from the N3 to The Pavilion. Bakkies lined up on the road with armed men on them. They did this and made other roadblocks around there to save The Pavilion and Westville Hospital. There were some looter mob attempts to get into the buildings especially the hospital, those attempts failed and looters mobs were forced to leave. The efforts of Westville residents saved the hospital and Pavilion. During the day on the 13th SANDF patrolled that area, after the hard work was done.
A lot of police and military helicopters had been flying over Westville since the 12th but this was the first SANDF ground presence. Other than this Westville remained on its own into the 15th, relying only on residents.
The Westville community blockade on N3 junction was still holding into the day on the 14th, but looters got close to Pavillion from the south. Containers were being looted at a warehouse/logistics area adjacent to the Pavillion during the day on the 14th, some say one of the things they were looting exploded and the fireball was seen from the blockade (unstable chemicals?), there definitely was a fire and massive amount of smoke. SAPS took a look around after that.
Westwood mall, is another Westville mall that was defended, and is almost untouched. Next to Westwood mall looters and police had a gun battle on the N2 on the 12th both shooting live rounds at each other. There was a lot of arrests there on the night of the 12th/13th (looters flat on the ground face down hands cable tied behind their backs, ready for collection by SAPS). Looters did gain entry to the mall briefly by breaking through the metal fencing, it was this mall where the looter was filmed falling out the window. Westwood mall narrowly survived being destroyed.
On the 15th there was queues stretching 2km to buy food at Westville malls and shops (it takes an entire day queuing to buy food, some slept in queues on the 14th/15th), almost every mall and shop north and east of Westville is looted or burned down. Fuck knows how far people from KwaMashu are going to travel to buy food from now on.
On the night of the 11th/12th south of Westville in Queensburgh, there’s video of residents arresting looters (some have said this is Westville, it is not). Queensburgh is middleclass-ish for the most part, but there’s not much to loot. There’s a really tiny CBD and the rest is residential. In the video only one of them knew what they were doing, he’s shouting at the others that only armed men should approach the vehicle, they get the looters on the ground, then he shouts "no filming" as they’re flagging down a police car to take the arrested looters away. If you’re watching video of something, that’s always a giveaway that those people are clueless. This is a really crazy situation nothing should‘ve been filmed and shared.
South of Queensburgh there’s Chatsworth. Zoned as an Indian area in the bad old days, and still very much majority Indian today. Chatsworth is a mix of working class and middle class. Immediately south of Chatsworth is Umlazi the largest high-density former black township in Durban, at half a million people. They’re separated by a river in a valley and very hilly terrain, they’re right next to each other but it’s an effort to get from Chatsworth proper to Umlazi proper, you can’t just wonder about and accidentally go from one into the other, it has to be a very deliberate journey. Chatsworth like Queensburgh also has little to loot.
Looters were rocking up in Chatsworth, and attempting to break into homes. There’s a lot of rumours/stories about what’s happened in Chatsworth. But looter vehicles were being petrol bombed, the use of petrol bombs in Indian areas against looters seems common, but only in Chatsworth do I know for sure it happened. Burns victims are way up at Durban hospitals and there’s a video of a guy who has been petrol bombed with his skin hanging off, so there's evidence it happened generally. One Chatsworth neighbourhood watch member was killed by looters. Chatsworth’s community sports centre was burned down on the night of the 11th/12th. The Shall Cross shopping centre was looted on the night of the 12th/13th, some say it was then burned down. SANDF patrolled there on the night of the 13th/14th, after all the major shit had happened.
Mobs of looters were stripping warehouses in Lamontville (a periphery part of Chatsworth) during the day on the 14th, and the warehouses and industrial areas on the South Coast Road adjacent to Umlazi. It was the usual, 1000s of people loading up 100s of often expensive vehicles. A stretch of the South Coast Road before the river became a looters car park, all 6 lanes. Just off the South Coast Road, Montclair mall was stripped by looters on the 14th during the day, as were small/medium family run type SMMEs on South Coast Road some of which were also burned down. It was a feeding frenzy in that area on the 14th, SANDF was deployed by then and didn’t try to stop them. Isipingo (a suburb adjacent to Umlazi) market was looted and burned down on the night of the 15th/16th, a city owned building housing 15 SMME units.
During all this activity Umlazi’s mall was totally stripped by looters whilst under gunfire, the actual building is still standing apparently.
To the south east everything between Westville and the Bluff has been hit hard. A lot of those areas had many small family run type SMMEs that were looted. Queensmead Mall, Southway Mall, Davenport Centre Glenwood, Glenwood Spar and Village, Ultra Liquors, Musgrave Centre shopping mall, all these were stripped by looters and partly damaged, starting on the 11th during the day and stretching into the night of the 12th/13th. Glenwood has no unlooted malls. There was also a lot of general chaos and terrified residents barricading themselves into their homes in the Berea. During the day on the 13th residents formed militias and started guarding each street corner with whatever they had (baseball bats etc), this happened all along the Berea (each area/suburb of the Berea is different, with no racial group in the majority and a wide range of social classes), some streets started constructing blockades to completely prevent entry. it’s not an easy area to defend from looter mobs because there’s so many access points. Some of the videos of militias using weapons to smash up looter cars in the road whilst the driver/passengers were still inside, arresting police who were looting, and cable tying looters to railings along the road (Musgrave militia), are from that first night militias defended the Berea on the 13th/14th.
Street militias calmed things down after the night of the 13th/14th, much less gunfire in Glenwood. Still looting in the area on the 14th, smoke coming from the direction of the Berea during the day on the 14th and distant sounds of gunfire coming from there also. Some small Glenwood shops reopened on the 15th for a limited time to sell food, shoppers were robbed of their shopping outside, the robbers were duly forced to leave by militias. SANDF deployed Caspirs to the Berea in the evening on the 15th.
To the east of the Berea is the Bluff, it doesn’t have many access points and is easier to defend. It’s working class/lower middle class and about one third each coloured/Indian/white. Whites from there are infamously rough and tough, a well earned reputation. During the day on the 12th they got volunteers together, about 200 men with baseball bats/pickaxe handles/axes etc and some with firearms. On the night of the 12th/13th, they defended their suburb and malls. There’s video of one beating they gave a looter, many others were beaten. Any looter who went there got heavily fucked up, looter cars were severely vandalised too but that happened everywhere. The Bluff was untouched.
To the east of Westville (north of Berea) there’s Overport which refers to many suburbs, similar to the Berea quite a range of classes and every racial group but Overport is much more Indian. A Mosque in Mayville which did a lot of community work feeding people was burned down on the 12th. There’s lots of rumours/stories about Sydenham (working class mostly Indian with a coloured minority), it’s the usual rumours about any working class Indian area that they petrol bombed and shot looters. The video of the private security bakkie with Indians riding on the back shooting looters (seemed like non-lethal rounds, may not have been real guns), before the bakkie stops and guys get out to beat looters with baseball bats, there’s been claims that video was in Chatsworth or Phoenix, it was a middle class part of Overport and those looters had been trying to break into homes. On the 15th Indians from Gauteng resupplied Overport with essential food (bread), some of that food was given away for free to whoever turned up and asked.
Along the Umgeni Road on the 13th during the day, rows of businesses were looted (Marko, Value Centre, there’s a lot of shops and SMME businesses along that road), as is now the custom huge crowds of looters and expensive cars parked up. All of that was totally undefended by anyone, no SAPS or anyone else. The attack on the large Marko was particularly frenzied, even parts of the building itself were looted. The Springfield Park/Umgeni Road area was stripped by the morning of the 14th.
To the west of Westville is Pinetown/New Germany. There’s a lot of warehouses and industrial there, it’s really a factory district. By all accounts it’s totally fucked. A lot of New Germany’s shops/warehouses/industrial have been looted, some say burned down too but it’s hard getting exact details. Pinecrest Centre mall in Pinetown was looted on the 12th, it had been totally stripped by looters and was on fire (sprinklers may have flooded it and put out the fires). During the day on the 12th Union Main Centre (shopping precinct) and shops nearby were looted, there were massive mobs of looters and gunfire in Pinetown during the night of the 12th/13th. By the morning of the 13th the Nichols Arcade (business park) was stripped of everything by looters (all SMME family owned type businesses). The place some of you incorrectly stated was in Stellenbosch, was actually the Distell Beverage Company in New Germany, it was looted then burned down during the day on the 13th.
During the day on the 13th Pinetown residents started constructing blockades across streets entirely blocking traffic, white and black residents manning them and arming themselves with whatever they had (similar to the militias which appeared on the Berea around that time). Around the night of 14th/15th into the morning of the 15th on Goodwood Road (near SMME type warehouses/industrial units), SAPS and private security discovered a looter car park on the road and shot out all four tyres on all the cars/bakkies/vans/trucks, it’s now a huge pile up of cars with flat tyres loaded with loot. SAPS seems to be impounding the vehicles.
A little further west there’s Hillcrest/Waterfall, a middle class/upper class area and 85%+ white. Looters stripped Watercrest mall over the 12th and 13th. Other shops were also hit. Self storage units in Waterfall were also looted/burned including malicious damage to sentimental items (photo albums etc). By the 13th it was impossible to even buy a loaf of bread in Hillcrest, because everything was either stripped by looters or closed. On the 14th some shops that weren’t looted re-opened for a limited time to sell food and did again on the 15th (some staffed by community volunteers), but there’s massive queues and no resupply, once the shelves are empty that’s it. There was a lot of smoke visible in the distance from Hillcrest on the 14th (coming from Pinetown/New Germany).
Further down the N3 from New Germany/Pinetown/Hillcrest there’s a large Value Logistics warehouse before you get to Cato Ridge. It’s a location is in the middle of nowhere without pedestrian access. During the day on the 13th 100s of vehicles (maybe even 1000) parked up on the N3 just outside Cato Ridge, in both directions on the outside lanes and hard shoulder, the drivers and passengers then looted that Value Logistics warehouse and loaded up their vehicles. The N3 was turned into a looter’s car park for about 1km or 2km covering 6 lanes, for an entire day. They went about their looting unmolested.
Further west is PMB. The video some of you are saying is Indians burning shacks in Chatsworth is in PMB, and it’s unclear Indians actually burned them (shacks are on fire, Indians are watching, that’s it). PMB’s water treatment facility has been burned down. The massive Checkers/Brookside mall in PMB burned down on the 12th. 5 dead looters have been found around Marko in PMB, crushed to death in looter stampedes.
Other areas.
Durban CBD is fucked, mass looting over days. SANDF patrolled there first on the night of the 12th/13th and it’s the one place that’s always had some police presence also. There were still buildings being set alight on the night of the 14th/15th including the Workshop Shopping Centre burning down (an old historic railway building). Street clean up started on the 14th.
To the north haven’t heard much about Mount Edgecombe and Umhlanga (small populations about half white the rest mostly Indian). Mostly SMME industrial estate units/warehouses were looted in Cornubia/Mount Edgecombe, some set on fire. Umhlanga residents are manning blockades, resident organisations there are organised. There’s a lot of rumours and stories about what’s happened in Phoenix (90%+ Indian area), there's certainly a lot video of Indian militias taking action but placing it all isn't easy. Durban's Indian community has a bit of a gangster issue, mostly the rumours concern looters unknowingly targeting the wrong sort of businesses that seemed like soft targets (just look like normal family run SMMEs), but turn out to be something entirely different which is when very serious Indian individuals emerge from said premises and looters die. The current count for looters killed in Phoenix is 20.
To the south, Toti isn't on my radar, shouldn't have filmed themselves though no good can come of that. Further south Umkomaas has been hit hard, lots of people saying many buildings have burned down.
Some advice.
Sardy is talking about guns and barricading his home. That’s not the lesson.
What anyone in SA needs to do, is form or join a neighbourhood watch and get organised with other people in their community, cooperating with the police through a community policing forum. The situation in Durban isn’t really new, smaller versions have happened before over the last 10 years (the Coligny riot 2017, an ANC factional riot in Pretoria 2016, the Cape farm riots 2012), each time the rule of law vanished and suddenly people were on their own against mobs. Standing together makes you safer, in Coligny what Boere protected did not burn down. It's probably what the ANC losing power looks like, maybe Capies will avoid it because it's already happened there.
You don’t want to be in the community that was unable to do anything in the first 24 hours, then 48 hours, then by 72 hours came out after everything had been looted/burned. You want to be in the community that was organised and had 100s of volunteers ready, who the police knew and trusted, who immediately stopped shit ever getting bad and saved infrastructure. With effort the community eventually has an inventory of equipment (everything from body armour and bakkies people are happy to share, to drones and night vision binoculars for surveillance), a roster of members and their skills/training, etc. You cannot buy 1000 volunteers, hiring that much private security would cost at least R200m per year.
The places in Durban that could afford private security and relied only on it and police, are now fucked, all those communities were also forced onto the streets with crude weapons to man barricades anyway. Westville stood alone for 4 days and nights and is almost entirely untouched, in the middle of total chaos and destruction to its west, north, and east.
That happens in London?_Os_ wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:51 am No need to quote such a massive post. Where I come from, an indiscretion of that severity gets every panel of your vehicle sledgehammered and you and the other occupants on the side of the road cable tied.
Welcome back.
Were you last seen during the 2019 RWC?
Please post your pearls on the Lions threads.
How so?sorCrer wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:54 am Usual Ox shite. There is not a person on this bored or PR that knows the streets of Durban, Johannesburg or Pretoria as well as I do and that includes Chesterville, Westville, Kwa Mashu, Phoenix and as far north as Verulam.
"Capies, Vaalies, and Saucer will need Google maps".sorCrer wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:54 am Usual Ox shite. There is not a person on this bored or PR that knows the streets of Durban, Johannesburg or Pretoria as well as I do and that includes Chesterville, Westville, Kwa Mashu, Phoenix and as far north as Verulam.
I have posted a bit on the other place.Chilli wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:48 amWere you last seen during the 2019 RWC?
Please post your pearls on the Lions threads.
Monk, me, and Saucer were giving the Irish some kak the other day on the Lions thread there. Think of it like a Durban militia, Monk with the shotgun loaded with birdshot/buckshot and ready to go, me with the sledgehammer, and Saucer bringing the manne on the barricade some tea.
May the force be with you_Os_ wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:15 amI have posted a bit on the other place.Chilli wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:48 amWere you last seen during the 2019 RWC?
Please post your pearls on the Lions threads.
Monk, me, and Saucer were giving the Irish some kak the other day on the Lions thread there. Think of it like a Durban militia, Monk with the shotgun loaded with birdshot/buckshot and ready to go, me with the sledgehammer, and Saucer bringing the manne on the barricade some tea.
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OomStruisbaai
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Great to have Ox here.
We have a thread for this , please feel obliged to post on it._Os_ wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:15 amI have posted a bit on the other place.Chilli wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:48 amWere you last seen during the 2019 RWC?
Please post your pearls on the Lions threads.
Monk, me, and Saucer were giving the Irish some kak the other day on the Lions thread there. Think of it like a Durban militia, Monk with the shotgun loaded with birdshot/buckshot and ready to go, me with the sledgehammer, and Saucer bringing the manne on the barricade some tea.
Just not on the $harks threads.
How so in I know the streets better? I grew up, went to school and lived in Durban North, Umhlanga Rocks and Umdloti, Umbilo, Morningside, Warwick Triangle. Worked all over Durban but of particular relevance here is I worked in the magistrates courts in Verulam and Ntuzuma for years. Also did riots in Chesterville in the 90's. There definitely won't be anyone who knows Johannesburg and Pretoria more intimatelyChilli wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:07 amHow so?sorCrer wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:54 am Usual Ox shite. There is not a person on this bored or PR that knows the streets of Durban, Johannesburg or Pretoria as well as I do and that includes Chesterville, Westville, Kwa Mashu, Phoenix and as far north as Verulam.
I've run 100's of road races 10, 21 and 42 km's all over these cities in the last 15 years. 
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OomStruisbaai
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Do this make you a helicopter pilot?sorCrer wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:52 amHow so in I know the streets better? I grew up, went to school and lived in Durban North, Umhlanga Rocks and Umdloti, Umbilo, Morningside, Warwick Triangle. Worked all over Durban but of particular relevance here is I worked in the magistrates courts in Verulam and Ntuzuma for years. Also did riots in Chesterville in the 90's. There definitely won't be anyone who knows Johannesburg and Pretoria more intimatelyChilli wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:07 amHow so?sorCrer wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:54 am Usual Ox shite. There is not a person on this bored or PR that knows the streets of Durban, Johannesburg or Pretoria as well as I do and that includes Chesterville, Westville, Kwa Mashu, Phoenix and as far north as Verulam.
No one can take your you, myself and I seriously.
Poos.
n poos en maatjienaaier wat ander mens will poos noem.OomStruisbaai wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:01 am Do this make you a helicopter pilot?
No one can take your you, myself and I seriously.
Poos.
So you're not from the Bluff and know the city due to former employment as a postman?sorCrer wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:52 amlived in Durban North, Umhlanga Rocks and Umdloti, Umbilo, Morningside, Warwick Triangle. Worked all over Durban but of particular relevance here is I worked in the magistrates courts in Verulam and Ntuzuma for years. Also did riots in Chesterville in the 90's.
Closest I've lived to the Bluff is Umbilo. Although I've surfed there a lot. Was also heavily involved in the SASOL acrylic fibers plant in Isipingo._Os_ wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:15 amSo you're not from the Bluff and know the city due to former employment as a postman?sorCrer wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:52 amlived in Durban North, Umhlanga Rocks and Umdloti, Umbilo, Morningside, Warwick Triangle. Worked all over Durban but of particular relevance here is I worked in the magistrates courts in Verulam and Ntuzuma for years. Also did riots in Chesterville in the 90's.
Postman don't work at the magistrate's court.
Much the rest of my families disgust who are to a man Sharks supporters._Os_ wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:50 am And yet, you shamefully an inexplicably support the Bulls.
That reminds me of the Sharks v Lions thread on here, which I have now read and reviewed. Appalling stuff from the Cape types, they're hensoppers, they supported the Lions.
He stood on all those corners waiting for customersChilli wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:07 amHow so?sorCrer wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:54 am Usual Ox shite. There is not a person on this bored or PR that knows the streets of Durban, Johannesburg or Pretoria as well as I do and that includes Chesterville, Westville, Kwa Mashu, Phoenix and as far north as Verulam.
We still have armed civilians (mostly farmers) patrolling Nottingham Road with roadbblocks.
Presumably, they will stand down shortly.
Howick and 'Maritzburg don't appear to be experiencing unrest. I was going to say that they are 'back to normal', but obviously, they are still in the aftermath.
The looters completely trashed the Build-It hardware store and the Liquor store across the road, but it seems they got distracted by the booze which meant that the NBA and Forge Hardware and Farmer's supply stores managed to escape. As far as I can tell, anyway, from outside. The local butchery had just changed hands and it appeared to be completely ransacked: feel really sorry for the young guy that bought it last week.
Presumably, they will stand down shortly.
Howick and 'Maritzburg don't appear to be experiencing unrest. I was going to say that they are 'back to normal', but obviously, they are still in the aftermath.
The looters completely trashed the Build-It hardware store and the Liquor store across the road, but it seems they got distracted by the booze which meant that the NBA and Forge Hardware and Farmer's supply stores managed to escape. As far as I can tell, anyway, from outside. The local butchery had just changed hands and it appeared to be completely ransacked: feel really sorry for the young guy that bought it last week.