Russia(n Olympic Committee) at it again.

[Blackmac]

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sport ... 022-02-09/

You can can all it whatever name you like but ultimately if it looks like a and smells like a , it's a

[Slick]

A 15 year old pumped full of illegal heart drugs. Great bunch of guys those Russians

[Lobby]

New York Times reporting that Valieva tested positive for three different drugs:

Kamila Valieva's anti-doping sample showed traces of three drugs that can be used to treat heart conditions, according to a New York Times report.

The 15-year-old Russian figure skater is being allowed to compete at Beijing 2022 despite testing positive for banned angina drug trimetazidine.

The report said it also showed hyproxen and L-Carnitine, which are not banned.

The combination of substances prompted "a lot of red flags", United States anti-doping chief Travis Tygart said.

"Those are three substances that are all used for increasing performance," he told BBC sports editor Dan Roan on the Sports Desk Podcast, explaining they can increase endurance and reduce fatigue.

Having been allowed to compete by the Court of Arbitration for Sport because she is a minor, she is on course to get the gold medal (although if she wins there won't be a medal ceremony).

Terrible though that the Russians are still prepared to pump a 15 year old full of drugs in this way.

[tabascoboy]

I'd question whether her medical records reveal a diagnosis that requires these drugs, but they could be faked. And if she does have a heart condition then active sport seems a bit risky...

[Blackmac]

Allowing her to compete is an absolutely astonishing decision. What a farce for fellow competitors who are being denied the chance to compete fairly for a medal and the opportunities that provides.

[Lobby]

I'd question whether her medical records reveal a diagnosis that requires these drugs, but they could be faked. And if she does have a heart condition then active sport seems a bit risky...

Apparently the Russians are arguing that her sample was contaminated by her grandfather’s heart medicine, so there is no suggestion that she herself has a medical condition. The Russians are laughing at the rest of the sporting world.

[tabascoboy]

I'd question whether her medical records reveal a diagnosis that requires these drugs, but they could be faked. And if she does have a heart condition then active sport seems a bit risky...

Apparently the Russians are arguing that her sample was contaminated by her grandfather’s heart medicine, so there is no suggestion that she herself has a medical condition. The Russians are laughing at the rest of the sporting world.

OK, admittedly I'm not following it closely because of no interest in the WO. I don't suppose any elaboration has been offered on just how she "inadvertantly" managed to ingest grand-dad's medicine either...

...no doubt he's not all there and thought he was giving her candy which he's mixed up with his tablets...

[petej]

I'd question whether her medical records reveal a diagnosis that requires these drugs, but they could be faked. And if she does have a heart condition then active sport seems a bit risky...

Apparently the Russians are arguing that her sample was contaminated by her grandfather’s heart medicine, so there is no suggestion that she herself has a medical condition. The Russians are laughing at the rest of the sporting world.

OK, admittedly I'm not following it closely because of no interest in the WO. I don't suppose any elaboration has been offered on just how she "inadvertantly" managed to ingest grand-dad's medicine either...

...no doubt he's not all there and thought he was giving her candy which he's mixed up with his tablets...

Seems very unlikely. I wonder how much damage the stuff they've been giving her long-term has done. You also wonder about all the young athletes who don't make it in places like Russia and China.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

I'd question whether her medical records reveal a diagnosis that requires these drugs, but they could be faked. And if she does have a heart condition then active sport seems a bit risky...

Apparently the Russians are arguing that her sample was contaminated by her grandfather’s heart medicine, so there is no suggestion that she herself has a medical condition. The Russians are laughing at the rest of the sporting world.

That's a very unimaginative excuse. You'd think they could do better but I guess they know they don't need to.

[JM2K6]

Why are the two that aren't banned suspcious at all?

[Biffer]

I actually feel quite sorry for the girl. She's a child, she's been drugged by adults who were responsible for her care and those same adults have now forced her into staying in the middle of an international controversy.

It's quite lucky it;s in China where audiences are well behaved. If this was in the USA there would be thousands of adults booing a child.

[Calculon]

Apparently the Russians are arguing that her sample was contaminated by her grandfather’s heart medicine, so there is no suggestion that she herself has a medical condition. The Russians are laughing at the rest of the sporting world.

OK, admittedly I'm not following it closely because of no interest in the WO. I don't suppose any elaboration has been offered on just how she "inadvertantly" managed to ingest grand-dad's medicine either...

...no doubt he's not all there and thought he was giving her candy which he's mixed up with his tablets...

Seems very unlikely. I wonder how much damage the stuff they've been giving her long-term has done. You also wonder about all the young athletes who don't make it in places like Russia and China.

I’m guessing none.

Trimetazidine has been treated as a drug with a high safety and tolerability profile.[21] It interacts with monoamine oxidase inhibitors.

It would seem incredibly stupid if this was given to her in the hope of improving her skating performance.

On the efficacy of the drug on figure skating and Valieva in particular, heart expert Dr. Benjamin J. Levine, a professor of exercise science at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, said “The chance that trimetazidine would improve her performance, in my opinion, is zero. The heart has plenty of blood. And the heart is so good at using different fuels.”[20]

[Slick]

Why are the two that aren't banned suspcious at all?

Because both have been proven to enhance performance and an incredible number of, especially, Russian athletes claim to have heart problems and need it. One of them was used extensively by Salazar at the Nike Oregon project and is only legal in quite small doses

[S/Lt_Phillips]

OK, admittedly I'm not following it closely because of no interest in the WO. I don't suppose any elaboration has been offered on just how she "inadvertantly" managed to ingest grand-dad's medicine either...

...no doubt he's not all there and thought he was giving her candy which he's mixed up with his tablets...

Seems very unlikely. I wonder how much damage the stuff they've been giving her long-term has done. You also wonder about all the young athletes who don't make it in places like Russia and China.

I’m guessing none.

Trimetazidine has been treated as a drug with a high safety and tolerability profile.[21] It interacts with monoamine oxidase inhibitors.

It would seem incredibly stupid if this was given to her in the hope of improving her skating performance.

On the efficacy of the drug on figure skating and Valieva in particular, heart expert Dr. Benjamin J. Levine, a professor of exercise science at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, said “The chance that trimetazidine would improve her performance, in my opinion, is zero. The heart has plenty of blood. And the heart is so good at using different fuels.”[20]

Why is it banned then?

[Calculon]

Why are the two that aren't banned suspcious at all?

Because both have been proven to enhance performance and an incredible number of, especially, Russian athletes claim to have heart problems and need it. One of them was used extensively by Salazar at the Nike Oregon project and is only legal in quite small doses

doesn't sound like it tbh

Despite widespread interest among athletes to use carnitine for improvement of exercise performance, inhibit muscle cramps, or enhance recovery from physical training, the quality of research for these possible benefits has been low, prohibiting any conclusion of effect.[1][3] At supplement amounts of 2–6 grams (0.071–0.212 oz) per day over a month, there was no consistent evidence that carnitine affected exercise or physical performance.[3] Carnitine supplements do not improve oxygen consumption or metabolic functions when exercising, nor do they increase the amount of carnitine in muscle.[1][3] There is no evidence that L-carnitine influences fat metabolism or aids in weight loss.[3]

[Calculon]

Seems very unlikely. I wonder how much damage the stuff they've been giving her long-term has done. You also wonder about all the young athletes who don't make it in places like Russia and China.

I’m guessing none.

Trimetazidine has been treated as a drug with a high safety and tolerability profile.[21] It interacts with monoamine oxidase inhibitors.

It would seem incredibly stupid if this was given to her in the hope of improving her skating performance.

On the efficacy of the drug on figure skating and Valieva in particular, heart expert Dr. Benjamin J. Levine, a professor of exercise science at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, said “The chance that trimetazidine would improve her performance, in my opinion, is zero. The heart has plenty of blood. And the heart is so good at using different fuels.”[20]

Why is it banned then?

IDK, why is THC banned?

[Slick]

Why are the two that aren't banned suspcious at all?

Because both have been proven to enhance performance and an incredible number of, especially, Russian athletes claim to have heart problems and need it. One of them was used extensively by Salazar at the Nike Oregon project and is only legal in quite small doses

doesn't sound like it tbh

Despite widespread interest among athletes to use carnitine for improvement of exercise performance, inhibit muscle cramps, or enhance recovery from physical training, the quality of research for these possible benefits has been low, prohibiting any conclusion of effect.[1][3] At supplement amounts of 2–6 grams (0.071–0.212 oz) per day over a month, there was no consistent evidence that carnitine affected exercise or physical performance.[3] Carnitine supplements do not improve oxygen consumption or metabolic functions when exercising, nor do they increase the amount of carnitine in muscle.[1][3] There is no evidence that L-carnitine influences fat metabolism or aids in weight loss.[3]

OK, I guess we can just put it down to an incredible number of Russian athletes having heart problems then, the poor devils.

[JM2K6]

Why are the two that aren't banned suspcious at all?

Because both have been proven to enhance performance and an incredible number of, especially, Russian athletes claim to have heart problems and need it. One of them was used extensively by Salazar at the Nike Oregon project and is only legal in quite small doses

I can buy L-Carnitine in Holland & Barrett. If it's a performance enhancing drug, it should be banned. If it isn't banned, then what's the problem? Are we pretending western athletes aren't taking every legal supplement under the sun?

[Biffer]

Performance enhancing drugs aren't usually separated by sport. If it's beneficial for a particular type of sport it's usually just on the banned list full stop I think.

[Slick]

Why are the two that aren't banned suspcious at all?

Because both have been proven to enhance performance and an incredible number of, especially, Russian athletes claim to have heart problems and need it. One of them was used extensively by Salazar at the Nike Oregon project and is only legal in quite small doses

I can buy L-Carnitine in Holland & Barrett. If it's a performance enhancing drug, it should be banned. If it isn't banned, then what's the problem? Are we pretending western athletes aren't taking every legal supplement under the sun?

Yes, but you can only buy it in very small doses which, as you say, is perfectly legal. However using it in larger doses is not legal which is what Salazar was doing.

[Calculon]

Because both have been proven to enhance performance and an incredible number of, especially, Russian athletes claim to have heart problems and need it. One of them was used extensively by Salazar at the Nike Oregon project and is only legal in quite small doses

doesn't sound like it tbh

Despite widespread interest among athletes to use carnitine for improvement of exercise performance, inhibit muscle cramps, or enhance recovery from physical training, the quality of research for these possible benefits has been low, prohibiting any conclusion of effect.[1][3] At supplement amounts of 2–6 grams (0.071–0.212 oz) per day over a month, there was no consistent evidence that carnitine affected exercise or physical performance.[3] Carnitine supplements do not improve oxygen consumption or metabolic functions when exercising, nor do they increase the amount of carnitine in muscle.[1][3] There is no evidence that L-carnitine influences fat metabolism or aids in weight loss.[3]

OK, I guess we can just put it down to an incredible number of Russian athletes having heart problems then, the poor devils.

As the quote implies, athletes, not just Russian ones, are probably given, and taking it in the hope that it would improve their performance.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

I’m guessing none.




It would seem incredibly stupid if this was given to her in the hope of improving her skating performance.

Why is it banned then?

IDK, why is THC banned?

Because, according to WADA, it fails one or two of the three criteria for being banned under their list (harms the health of the athlete, performance enhancing, against the spirit of sport).

Are you suggesting trimetazidine is on the banned list for the same reasons as cannabis?

[JM2K6]

Because both have been proven to enhance performance and an incredible number of, especially, Russian athletes claim to have heart problems and need it. One of them was used extensively by Salazar at the Nike Oregon project and is only legal in quite small doses

I can buy L-Carnitine in Holland & Barrett. If it's a performance enhancing drug, it should be banned. If it isn't banned, then what's the problem? Are we pretending western athletes aren't taking every legal supplement under the sun?

Yes, but you can only buy it in very small doses which, as you say, is perfectly legal. However using it in larger doses is not legal which is what Salazar was doing.

I don't think that's true at all. Can you give me a link that says it's legal below a certain dose but banned beyond that?

[Slick]

I can buy L-Carnitine in Holland & Barrett. If it's a performance enhancing drug, it should be banned. If it isn't banned, then what's the problem? Are we pretending western athletes aren't taking every legal supplement under the sun?

Yes, but you can only buy it in very small doses which, as you say, is perfectly legal. However using it in larger doses is not legal which is what Salazar was doing.

I don't think that's true at all. Can you give me a link that says it's legal below a certain dose but banned beyond that?

This kind of thing comes up quite a bit

L-carnitine itself is not a banned substance according to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) Prohibited List. However, the WADA does stipulate that while IV infusions of non-prohibited drugs are not banned, the IV infusion of any compound in a volume greater than 50 mL in a six-hour time window is strictly prohibited.

[JM2K6]

Yes, but you can only buy it in very small doses which, as you say, is perfectly legal. However using it in larger doses is not legal which is what Salazar was doing.

I don't think that's true at all. Can you give me a link that says it's legal below a certain dose but banned beyond that?

This kind of thing comes up quite a bit

L-carnitine itself is not a banned substance according to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) Prohibited List. However, the WADA does stipulate that while IV infusions of non-prohibited drugs are not banned, the IV infusion of any compound in a volume greater than 50 mL in a six-hour time window is strictly prohibited.

Yeah, that's specifically about IV infusion in certain volumes in a certain space of time. A blanket ban on every compound not being administered within those specific boundaries. You could take 10 1400mg pills if you wanted to.

Is there any information suggesting that breaking these rules is what she was doing? Because the quotes seem to be more like "well, it's very suspicious she was using these legal substances because they can improve performance" rather than "she can't have had that level without breaking the rules on IV infusion of any compound".

To be clear I think it's very likely they were doping her with the banned drugs; I also think it's very likely she was taking the non-banned ones just like most other atheletes for the same reasons.

[Glaston]

I'd question whether her medical records reveal a diagnosis that requires these drugs, but they could be faked. And if she does have a heart condition then active sport seems a bit risky...

Apparently the Russians are arguing that her sample was contaminated by her grandfather’s heart medicine, so there is no suggestion that she herself has a medical condition. The Russians are laughing at the rest of the sporting world.

OK, admittedly I'm not following it closely because of no interest in the WO. I don't suppose any elaboration has been offered on just how she "inadvertantly" managed to ingest grand-dad's medicine either...

...no doubt he's not all there and thought he was giving her candy which he's mixed up with his tablets...

I am sure Yeeb could come up with an explanation.

[Calculon]

Why is it banned then?

IDK, why is THC banned?

Because, according to WADA, it fails one or two of the three criteria for being banned under their list (harms the health of the athlete, performance enhancing, against the spirit of sport).

Are you suggesting trimetazidine is on the banned list for the same reasons as cannabis?

I wasn't, but I did a quick search and according to this:

According to WADA, any substance may be included on its prohibited list if it meets two of three criteria: it has the potential to be performance enhancing, it poses a potential or actual health risk to the athlete, or it violates the “spirit of the sport.”

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/c ... cs-sports/

THC must have been banned at least partly for the same reason as trimetazidine.

[Happyhooker]

How is there anyone competing in the snowboarding events?

[Calculon]

Yeah.....whatever the pretense of WADA it seems THC was banned cos the yank government asked the ioc to ban it as part of it's war on drugs. Trimetazidine was banned because it was being used by endurance athletes in the belief that it was performance enhancing and I suppose in theory it could be. In the case of figure skating i suspect the professor of exercise science is correct in his assessment of it's efficiency in that particular sport.


Apparently the Russian skater could potentially get to keep her medals, so to speak , which would be hilarious.

[redderneck]

I thought it was more its use to treat symptoms of vertigo that would have been of potential benefit to a skater, no...?

[S/Lt_Phillips]

IDK, why is THC banned?

Because, according to WADA, it fails one or two of the three criteria for being banned under their list (harms the health of the athlete, performance enhancing, against the spirit of sport).

Are you suggesting trimetazidine is on the banned list for the same reasons as cannabis?

I wasn't, but I did a quick search and according to this:

According to WADA, any substance may be included on its prohibited list if it meets two of three criteria: it has the potential to be performance enhancing, it poses a potential or actual health risk to the athlete, or it violates the “spirit of the sport.”

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/c ... cs-sports/

THC must have been banned at least partly for the same reason as trimetazidine.

"partly for the same reason" would be that both violate the spirit of the sport. THC presumably also (in the eyes of WADA) is harmful to the athlete (no-one is suggesting it might be performance enhancing, surely?) and trimetazidine has the potential to be performance enhancing (no-one is suggesting it 's harmful to the athlete).

So drawing a parallel between the two is way off the mark.

Yeah.....whatever the pretense of WADA it seems THC was banned cos the yank government asked the ioc to ban it as part of it's war on drugs. Trimetazidine was banned because it was being used by endurance athletes in the belief that it was performance enhancing and I suppose in theory it could be. In the case of figure skating i suspect the professor of exercise science is correct in his assessment of it's efficiency in that particular sport.

You've answered your own question there.

[Blackmac]

I actually feel quite sorry for the girl. She's a child, she's been drugged by adults who were responsible for her care and those same adults have now forced her into staying in the middle of an international controversy.

It's quite lucky it;s in China where audiences are well behaved. If this was in the USA there would be thousands of adults booing a child.

I'm with you there, the whole thing is appalling. The pressure she is under must be overwhelming and the scumbags in her team clearly have no concern for her welfare.

[ASMO]

bob.jpg (50.62 KiB) Viewed 1624 times

[Calculon]

Poor girl

[Yr Alban]

The fact that THC is banned is particularly daft given that CBD is OK, and reportedly used by a number of pro rugby players. Since THC can’t possibly be performance enhancing, the only logical conclusion is that what the IOC disapproves of is that THC makes people feel good.

I feel sorry for the American sprinter who was excluded from the Olympics for doing something that isn’t even illegal in about half of the States.

[Grandpa]

Poor girl

I agree. That was a painful watch. And we'll probably never find out who is responsible... I wonder if she even knows.

[Slick]

Poor girl

I agree. That was a painful watch. And we'll probably never find out who is responsible... I wonder if she even knows.

What happened?

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Poor girl

I agree. That was a painful watch. And we'll probably never find out who is responsible... I wonder if she even knows.

What happened?

Fell several times and finished outside the medals. The pressure she was under after all this must've been horrible. Feel pretty bad for the poor girl. But I hope they can find a way to throw the book at whoever thought it was okay to get a 15 year-old to take PEDs.

[Lobby]

Poor girl

I agree. That was a painful watch. And we'll probably never find out who is responsible... I wonder if she even knows.

What happened?

All the pressure got to her, and she fell over on four of her jumps. As a result, she slipped from 1st place to 4th and didn’t get a medal. She ended her routine in floods of tears.

Awful for a 15 year old to have to go through that.

[Slick]

Oh dear, that's awful.

Utter cunts.