Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Calculon]

Yes

https://labourlist.org/2019/11/labour-w ... residents/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 15926.html

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/upload ... o-2019.pdf

Page 82

A Labour government will repeal the
Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, which
has stifled democracy and propped up
weak governments. We will maintain
650 constituencies and respond
objectively to future, independent
boundary reviews. We will oversee the
largest extension of the franchise in
generations, reducing the voting age
to 16, giving full voting rights to all
UK residents, making sure everyone
who is entitled to vote can do so by
introducing a system of automatic voter
registration, and abandoning plans
to introduce voter ID which has been
shown to harm democratic rights.

I'm not reading all your links but the bit you quote says UK residents, so not anyone who lives there or who arrived in the UK a couple of days before the general election.

Just to be clear this is the requirements before you are allowed to apply for residency:

Below is a list showing the length of time you must spend in the UK on various visas to be able to apply for indefinite leave to remain (ILR):

Marriage or unmarried partner to UK citizen: 2 years
Lawful stay on any basis (long stay): 10 years
Unlawful stay: 14 years
Tier 1 and Tier 2 work permit: 5 years
Investor, sportsperson, business owner, arts: 5 years
Ancestry: 5 years

ILR is permanent residence, you are also resident during the qualifying periods you mention there. You are correct that it's not people arriving by boat etc. or on tourist visas.

I think the major implication of extending the vote to all UK residents is that it also ensures that the 5 million EU citizens who have settled status in the UK following Brexit have the right to vote in UK parliamentary elections.

Settled status’, ‘indefinite leave to remain’ and ‘permanent residence are very similar. From the gov.uk site

Being "settled" in the UK is defined in an immigration context and means a person who has indefinite leave to enter or remain, meaning they are free from any restriction on the period for which they remain in the UK, or is an Irish national in the UK who is treated as a settled person by virtue of the Ireland Act 194

Also this

Non-UK nationals who are subject to immigration control (the vast majority) cannot meet the ordinary residence test if they do not have indefinite leave to remain in the UK

So to be an "ordinary resident" you have to ILR

[robmatic]

Settled status’, ‘indefinite leave to remain’ and ‘permanent residence are very similar. From the gov.uk site

Being "settled" in the UK is defined in an immigration context and means a person who has indefinite leave to enter or remain, meaning they are free from any restriction on the period for which they remain in the UK, or is an Irish national in the UK who is treated as a settled person by virtue of the Ireland Act 194

Also this

Non-UK nationals who are subject to immigration control (the vast majority) cannot meet the ordinary residence test if they do not have indefinite leave to remain in the UK

So to be an "ordinary resident" you have to ILR

"Ordinary residence" is a specific term for entitlement to use of NHS services.

You get a biometric residence permit for the UK if you get a visa for more than 6 months.

[I like neeps]

They disagree with the Rwanda plan for 1.

Also they want anybody who lives in the Country to have the vote in general elections regardless of citizenship. Therefore you can land on a Kent Beach on the Monday and be in the Voting Booth on the Thursday.

They are secretly in favour of open borders. They should be honest about it at least Nadia Whittome is honest about it.

I mean aside from the Rwanda point (which isn't a smart policy anyway because it won't remove the numbers arriving) none of this is true.

I very much doubt Whittome has any say at all over labour policy and the link to Hodges is a great example that you won't vote labour not because of policy but because of what the daily mail is saying is their policy.

You can land on a Kent Beach on the Monday and be in the Voting Booth on the Thursday.


https://labourlist.org/2019/11/labour-w ... residents/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 15926.html

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/upload ... o-2019.pdf

Page 82

A Labour government will repeal the
Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, which
has stifled democracy and propped up
weak governments. We will maintain
650 constituencies and respond
objectively to future, independent
boundary reviews. We will oversee the
largest extension of the franchise in
generations, reducing the voting age
to 16, giving full voting rights to all
UK residents, making sure everyone
who is entitled to vote can do so by
introducing a system of automatic voter
registration, and abandoning plans
to introduce voter ID which has been
shown to harm democratic rights.

Thank you for sending me a manifesto that was for an election they lost and not their current policy. And that those arriving on the beaches are not migrants so not covered by tbis. Other than that, 10/10 logic and reasoning.

[Calculon]

"Ordinary residence" is a specific term for entitlement to use of NHS services.

You get a biometric residence permit for the UK if you get a visa for more than 6 months.

I see.

So getting back to the original point it seems Labour wanted to give other nationalities the same voting rights as those enjoyed by citizens of Commonwealth countries, Zimbabwe, Fiji and Ireland when it came to UK elections.

[Camroc2]

Re Trusses interview with Beth Rigby of Sky News last night.

At one point she appeared to say that she didn't believe in progressive taxation, nor in social wealth redistribution. Now, I know she appeared flustered at the time, but that path leads to Brazil like gated "ghettos" for the wealthy, favellas for the poor, and endemic violence everywhere.

I'm not sure she's really thought through the actual economic consequences of the policies she says she's going to follow.

The problem for us (Irish that is), is that due to sheer proximity, we'll get caught in some of the pooh when Truss drives the UK economy off the rails.

[SaintK]

Re Trusses interview with Beth Rigby of Sky News last night.

At one point she appeared to say that she didn't believe in progressive taxation, nor in social wealth redistribution. Now, I know she appeared flustered at the time, but that path leads to Brazil like gated "ghettos" for the wealthy, favellas for the poor, and endemic violence everywhere.

I'm not sure she's really thought through the actual economic consequences of the policies she says she's going to follow.

The problem for us (Irish that is), is that due to sheer proximity, we'll get caught in some of the pooh when Truss drives the UK economy off the rails.

I'm not sure she's capable of thinking through anything!!!

[ia801310]

"Ordinary residence" is a specific term for entitlement to use of NHS services.

You get a biometric residence permit for the UK if you get a visa for more than 6 months.

I see.

So getting back to the original point it seems Labour wanted to give other nationalities the same voting rights as those enjoyed by citizens of Commonwealth countries, Zimbabwe, Fiji and Ireland when it came to UK elections.

I don;t agree with Commonwealth nations being able to vote in UK general elections, only UK citizens should be able to do that.

[ia801310]

I mean aside from the Rwanda point (which isn't a smart policy anyway because it won't remove the numbers arriving) none of this is true.

I very much doubt Whittome has any say at all over labour policy and the link to Hodges is a great example that you won't vote labour not because of policy but because of what the daily mail is saying is their policy.

You can land on a Kent Beach on the Monday and be in the Voting Booth on the Thursday.


https://labourlist.org/2019/11/labour-w ... residents/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 15926.html

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/upload ... o-2019.pdf

Page 82

A Labour government will repeal the
Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, which
has stifled democracy and propped up
weak governments. We will maintain
650 constituencies and respond
objectively to future, independent
boundary reviews. We will oversee the
largest extension of the franchise in
generations, reducing the voting age
to 16, giving full voting rights to all
UK residents, making sure everyone
who is entitled to vote can do so by
introducing a system of automatic voter
registration, and abandoning plans
to introduce voter ID which has been
shown to harm democratic rights.

Thank you for sending me a manifesto that was for an election they lost and not their current policy. And that those arriving on the beaches are not migrants so not covered by tbis. Other than that, 10/10 logic and reasoning.

Residence could mean anything and it was in their last manifesto and was voted on by the Labour NEC .

Labour believe in open borders as Nadia Whittome has the guts to say. The rest of them are too spineless to admit it, they just pay lip serve to border controls whilst opposing every single policy that would reduce immigration and asylum. I also don't care what any convention says, if you are coming from France you are an economic migrant and I would be willing to bet folding money that the majority of the British electorate agrees.

We need to leave the ECHR pronto, I hope that that will be in the next manifesto. It says a lot about the EU that thousands and thousands of people are prepared to risk their lives to flee it in small boats to come to the racist hell-hole that is the UK.

[I like neeps]

You can land on a Kent Beach on the Monday and be in the Voting Booth on the Thursday.


https://labourlist.org/2019/11/labour-w ... residents/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 15926.html

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/upload ... o-2019.pdf

Page 82

A Labour government will repeal the
Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, which
has stifled democracy and propped up
weak governments. We will maintain
650 constituencies and respond
objectively to future, independent
boundary reviews. We will oversee the
largest extension of the franchise in
generations, reducing the voting age
to 16, giving full voting rights to all
UK residents, making sure everyone
who is entitled to vote can do so by
introducing a system of automatic voter
registration, and abandoning plans
to introduce voter ID which has been
shown to harm democratic rights.

Thank you for sending me a manifesto that was for an election they lost and not their current policy. And that those arriving on the beaches are not migrants so not covered by tbis. Other than that, 10/10 logic and reasoning.

Residence could mean anything and it was in their last manifesto and was voted on by the Labour NEC .

Labour believe in open borders as Nadia Whittome has the guts to say. The rest of them are too spineless to admit it, they just pay lip serve to border controls whilst opposing every single policy that would reduce immigration and asylum. I also don't care what any convention says, if you are coming from France you are an economic migrant and I would be willing to bet folding money that the majority of the British electorate agrees.

We need to leave the ECHR pronto, I hope that that will be in the next manifesto. It says a lot about the EU that thousands and thousands of people are prepared to risk their lives to flee it in small boats to come to the racist hell-hole that is the UK.

I'm starting to think you're an obvious troll. Whittome is on the left of the party that labour and currently trying to get rid of and the numbers of migrants in the EU far exceeds the number who make the UK.

[I like neeps]

The Tories have found another magic money tree. What a relief!

[ia801310]

Thank you for sending me a manifesto that was for an election they lost and not their current policy. And that those arriving on the beaches are not migrants so not covered by tbis. Other than that, 10/10 logic and reasoning.

Residence could mean anything and it was in their last manifesto and was voted on by the Labour NEC .

Labour believe in open borders as Nadia Whittome has the guts to say. The rest of them are too spineless to admit it, they just pay lip serve to border controls whilst opposing every single policy that would reduce immigration and asylum. I also don't care what any convention says, if you are coming from France you are an economic migrant and I would be willing to bet folding money that the majority of the British electorate agrees.

We need to leave the ECHR pronto, I hope that that will be in the next manifesto. It says a lot about the EU that thousands and thousands of people are prepared to risk their lives to flee it in small boats to come to the racist hell-hole that is the UK.

I'm starting to think you're an obvious troll. Whittome is on the left of the party that labour and currently trying to get rid of and the numbers of migrants in the EU far exceeds the number who make the UK.

No she is not. This is a party that elected Jeremy Corbyn as it's leader, twice, and would do so again if they had the chance. She is far more representative of the Labour party membership than Starmer is.

A kinder gentler politics: Labour MP's staffer shouting at a baby.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... riend.html

[fishfoodie]

I'm starting to think you're an obvious troll. Whittome is on the left of the party that labour and currently trying to get rid of and the numbers of migrants in the EU far exceeds the number who make the UK.

Have a look at his alter ego on the other place, & ask yourself why you even engage with him ?

[ASMO]

Its becoming clearer to me that the Tories are resigned to losing the next election and are planning as much damage to the economy as possible before its handed over to Labour. This will inevitably lead to cuts and tax rises which the Tories will jump on with glee and use it as the weapon to get them re-elected.

[Hal Jordan]

Its becoming clearer to me that the Tories are resigned to losing the next election and are planning as much damage to the economy as possible before its handed over to Labour. This will inevitably lead to cuts and tax rises which the Tories will jump on with glee and use it as the weapon to get them re-elected.

And continuing to loot the public purse for the chums, to ensure jobs if they lose their seats.

[Tichtheid]

Majority of UK public agree with liberal views on race and sexual identity – annual poll



From a survey published in the Grauniad today

A majority of the public agree with so-called “woke” positions on issues such as racial equality, immigration and sexual identity, according to the latest annual poll of British social attitudes, in the latest sign that once-marginal liberal views are increasingly mainstream.

Although such issues are used by Tory politicians and the media to fuel “culture wars” and whip up antipathy towards a supposed politically correct cultural elite, the survey shows the balance of public opinion in Britain has shifted in favour of more inclusive attitudes over the past 20 years.

...and...

While pushing a culture war agenda may successfully enthuse core Tory voters – and potentially rekindle post-Brexit electoral divisions between remainers and leavers – that audience appears to be diminishing, and there is no guarantee that the anti-woke effect will be powerful enough to win an election, the survey concludes.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... nnual-poll

[SaintK]

I'm starting to think you're an obvious troll. Whittome is on the left of the party that labour and currently trying to get rid of and the numbers of migrants in the EU far exceeds the number who make the UK.

Have a look at his alter ego on the other place, & ask yourself why you even engage with him ?

Which loon is he there?

[Tichtheid]

Sounds like Bimbo to me. The 'Kinder gentler' shite on repeat.

That was my assumption, too.

[_Os_]

So getting back to the original point it seems Labour wanted to give other nationalities the same voting rights as those enjoyed by citizens of Commonwealth countries, Zimbabwe, Fiji and Ireland when it came to UK elections.

That is correct. In a GE Commonwealth citizens who are resident (visa without restriction) can vote and stand as candidates, this applies to Irish citizens too. Elections below a GE have a mix of rules, but it's always Commonwealth and Irish citizens being allowed to vote, and EU citizens who are resident or anyone resident being allowed to vote. The Labour proposal would've simply brought GEs into line with all the other elections.

There's two ways of structuring nationality law, by blood (ancestry connections), or by soil (residence in the territory). The UK system falls strongly on the side of soil, people acquire more rights the longer they're in the UK. The rights that come from ancestry in the UK system are very minimal compared to systems which favours blood (eg UK nationality cannot be extended down generations indefinitely if those generations aren't born in the UK). So the voting rules do actually reflect the nationality rules, and the aberration is the reduced rights EU nationals have.

The heart of the hostile environment and the Windrush scandal, is an idea a large amount of people have that their ancestry should confer rights those with long residency shouldn't have. Not how the UK system works and not how the society has therefore developed. Which is why it's always a shit show when attempts are made to change the system towards something it isn't, if voting rights were removed from people I could easily see some vulnerable people with 50+ years residency in the UK being turned away by their MP.

Reminds me of years ago Henry telling me to get off a thread about "our election", he didn't know the rules. Apparently I couldn't comment on a thread, but could vote and stand as a candidate in the election the thread was about.

[SaintK]

Sounds like Bimbo to me. The 'Kinder gentler' shite on repeat.

That was my assumption, too.

Nah, not terse or aggressive enough and not enough typos!
Not enough time in the day for to be posting on two rugby forums

[_Os_]

It's a general UK politics thread, there's stuff on the first page about the FPTP electoral system. Starmer's effectiveness or otherwise pops up now and again.

Nope, its a tory scum thread. I should know, I started it.

The intention and the reality diverged on page 1.

[I like neeps]

Residence could mean anything and it was in their last manifesto and was voted on by the Labour NEC .

Labour believe in open borders as Nadia Whittome has the guts to say. The rest of them are too spineless to admit it, they just pay lip serve to border controls whilst opposing every single policy that would reduce immigration and asylum. I also don't care what any convention says, if you are coming from France you are an economic migrant and I would be willing to bet folding money that the majority of the British electorate agrees.

We need to leave the ECHR pronto, I hope that that will be in the next manifesto. It says a lot about the EU that thousands and thousands of people are prepared to risk their lives to flee it in small boats to come to the racist hell-hole that is the UK.

I'm starting to think you're an obvious troll. Whittome is on the left of the party that labour and currently trying to get rid of and the numbers of migrants in the EU far exceeds the number who make the UK.

No she is not. This is a party that elected Jeremy Corbyn as it's leader, twice, and would do so again if they had the chance. She is far more representative of the Labour party membership than Starmer is.

A kinder gentler politics: Labour MP's staffer shouting at a baby.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... riend.html

The kinder gentler thing was about people not dying due to austerity fwiw.

[ia801310]

So getting back to the original point it seems Labour wanted to give other nationalities the same voting rights as those enjoyed by citizens of Commonwealth countries, Zimbabwe, Fiji and Ireland when it came to UK elections.

That is correct. In a GE Commonwealth citizens who are resident (visa without restriction) can vote and stand as candidates, this applies to Irish citizens too. Elections below a GE have a mix of rules, but it's always Commonwealth and Irish citizens being allowed to vote, and EU citizens who are resident or anyone resident being allowed to vote. The Labour proposal would've simply brought GEs into line with all the other elections.

There's two ways of structuring nationality law, by blood (ancestry connections), or by soil (residence in the territory). The UK system falls strongly on the side of soil, people acquire more rights the longer they're in the UK. The rights that come from ancestry in the UK system are very minimal compared to systems which favours blood (eg UK nationality cannot be extended down generations indefinitely if those generations aren't born in the UK). So the voting rules do actually reflect the nationality rules, and the aberration is the reduced rights EU nationals have.

The heart of the hostile environment and the Windrush scandal, is an idea a large amount of people have that their ancestry should confer rights those with long residency shouldn't have. Not how the UK system works and not how the society has therefore developed. Which is why it's always a shit show when attempts are made to change the system towards something it isn't, if voting rights were removed from people I could easily see some vulnerable people with 50+ years residency in the UK being turned away by their MP.

Reminds me of years ago Henry telling me to get off a thread about "our election", he didn't know the rules. Apparently I couldn't comment on a thread, but could vote and stand as a candidate in the election the thread was about.

Commonwealth and Irish, Cypriot and Maltese citizens can vote. It has nothing to do with nationality law. It is a hangover from empire. I would scrap it and say you have to be a UK or Irish citizen to vote.

[_Os_]

Commonwealth and Irish, Cypriot and Maltese citizens can vote. It has nothing to do with nationality law. It is a hangover from empire. I would scrap it and say you have to be a UK or Irish citizen to vote.

It has nothing to do with nationality law, other than the current rules directly referring to the British Nationality Act 1981 (Commonwealth citizens are legally defined within British nationality law), and you wanting to make it solely about nationality.

The problem with a lot of English people is that they're clueless about how their own country works. This shit isn't like changing a McDonalds menu, if you take rights away from people it generally ends badly and often in unforeseen ways.

[lemonhead]

Sounds like Bimbo to me. The 'Kinder gentler' shite on repeat.

That was my assumption, too.

Nah, not terse or aggressive enough and not enough typos!
Not enough time in the day for to be posting on two rugby forums

It's Mdaclarke lads.

[C69]

She needs to read the riot act to the Civil Service Blob and put the ECHR back in its box.

I may be wrong but I think he is that mdaclarke chap that I remember from PR.
UKIPPER/BNP Brexiter type antiimmigration South African in England.

Called it a while ago. He may not be the brightest and a bigot and a very reactionary abusive individual with vile views but at least he give a different opinion.

[JM2K6]

That was my assumption, too.

Nah, not terse or aggressive enough and not enough typos!
Not enough time in the day for to be posting on two rugby forums

It's Mdaclarke lads.

Yeah, he's always been like this. An absolute lunatic with absolute lunatic opinions. I don't want to be seen as shouting down "opposing viewpoints" but there's a difference between disagreeing with someone in good faith and arguing with someone in the bimbo/mick/dozy sphere.

[robmatic]

So getting back to the original point it seems Labour wanted to give other nationalities the same voting rights as those enjoyed by citizens of Commonwealth countries, Zimbabwe, Fiji and Ireland when it came to UK elections.

That is correct. In a GE Commonwealth citizens who are resident (visa without restriction) can vote and stand as candidates, this applies to Irish citizens too. Elections below a GE have a mix of rules, but it's always Commonwealth and Irish citizens being allowed to vote, and EU citizens who are resident or anyone resident being allowed to vote. The Labour proposal would've simply brought GEs into line with all the other elections.

There's two ways of structuring nationality law, by blood (ancestry connections), or by soil (residence in the territory). The UK system falls strongly on the side of soil, people acquire more rights the longer they're in the UK. The rights that come from ancestry in the UK system are very minimal compared to systems which favours blood (eg UK nationality cannot be extended down generations indefinitely if those generations aren't born in the UK). So the voting rules do actually reflect the nationality rules, and the aberration is the reduced rights EU nationals have.

The heart of the hostile environment and the Windrush scandal, is an idea a large amount of people have that their ancestry should confer rights those with long residency shouldn't have. Not how the UK system works and not how the society has therefore developed. Which is why it's always a shit show when attempts are made to change the system towards something it isn't, if voting rights were removed from people I could easily see some vulnerable people with 50+ years residency in the UK being turned away by their MP.

Reminds me of years ago Henry telling me to get off a thread about "our election", he didn't know the rules. Apparently I couldn't comment on a thread, but could vote and stand as a candidate in the election the thread was about.

This is one of the reasons why the UK is a relatively attractive destination for immigrants, despite the Home Office dicking around with the hostile environment policy. I used to work for a consultancy that assisted Turks with getting residency in the UK and one of the big selling points is that once you get a visa - and you can definitely massage the application and the renewal process - you get ILR and then citizenship reasonably straightforwardly after 6 years or so of residence.

You can contrast this with Germany which is an attractive place to go work but they definitely do not like giving citizenship out.

[sockwithaticket]

Its becoming clearer to me that the Tories are resigned to losing the next election and are planning as much damage to the economy as possible before its handed over to Labour. This will inevitably lead to cuts and tax rises which the Tories will jump on with glee and use it as the weapon to get them re-elected.

I think there's definitely a faction who want Truss and her cohort of psychopaths to do all the truly nasty stuff to fully fuck the economy into a position where it only benefits Tory donors/pals and then have Boris come riding in on his white charger to 'rescue' us from the nasty woman everyone hates. He's still surprisingly popular within the party, see the attempts to write him into the leadership challenge and those helping him not really resign until the jig was clearly up. Those loons may have underestimated how much he's damaged his reputation in the eyes of the public, even among Tory voters.

Realists in the party will likely be thinking the way you've stated. Fuck everything so thoroughly and so deeply in favour of the financiers, landlords and other Tory stereotypes that Labour couldn't possibly hope to turn things around in a single term, then hammer them for it via the right wing press and bank on the electorate's famously short memory.

[ia801310]

Nah, not terse or aggressive enough and not enough typos!
Not enough time in the day for to be posting on two rugby forums

It's Mdaclarke lads.

Yeah, he's always been like this. An absolute lunatic with absolute lunatic opinions. I don't want to be seen as shouting down "opposing viewpoints" but there's a difference between disagreeing with someone in good faith and arguing with someone in the bimbo/mick/dozy sphere.

Fair enough, I will leave you to your echo chamber.

You guys think that because you are on the side of the angels anybody who disagrees with you is a target for abuse, and you wonder why Labour keep losing? Tony Blair realised that you only win elections by persuading the other side to vote for you. You guys have no interest in doing that, you just want to abuse anybody who disagrees with you. A kinder gentler politics.

If you want to know why Labour keeping losing and why people won't stop voting for F88king Tories. Look in the mirror, you will see the answer staring back at you.

Have fun in your sewer.

[I like neeps]

Kwasi Kwarteng is changing benefit rules to get more people into work. Noting that too many over-50s are out of full time employment after covid. I've a solution for that Mr Kwarteng - burst the housing bubble which has meant they've built up so much wealth working is financially not as appealing as landlordism.

[SaintK]

It's Mdaclarke lads.

Yeah, he's always been like this. An absolute lunatic with absolute lunatic opinions. I don't want to be seen as shouting down "opposing viewpoints" but there's a difference between disagreeing with someone in good faith and arguing with someone in the bimbo/mick/dozy sphere.

Fair enough, I will leave you to your echo chamber.

You guys think that because you are on the side of the angels anybody who disagrees with you is a target for abuse, and you wonder why Labour keep losing? Tony Blair realised that you only win elections by persuading the other side to vote for you. You guys have no interest in doing that, you just want to abuse anybody who disagrees with you. A kinder gentler politics.

If you want to know why Labour keeping losing and why people won't stop voting for F88king Tories. Look in the mirror, you will see the answer staring back at you.

Have fun in your sewer.

Never voted Labour in my life. Though I may just change my habit of a lifetime just to help rid us of this awful right wing cabal that currently rule us.
I haven't noticed anyone abuse you and there is no need to leave.
As for sewer, have you not noticed what your party of choice have been dragging us through for the last umpteen years?

[SaintK]

The Secretary of State for the 18th Century has got off to a mixed start in his new recently elevated position!!!!!

Jacob Rees-Mogg faced repeated criticism from Tory MPs in the Commons over fracking, particularly over what was meant by his claim that drilling would only go ahead with approval from local communities. Some MPs wanted an assurance that residents would get to vote on whether projects should go ahead. But Rees-Mogg refused to promise that.

And those middle class protesters against fracking in leafy Surrey, Dorset and Hampshire were funded by Putin

[sockwithaticket]

When the right accuse their opposition of something it's usually projection.

Whatever happened to the Russia report?

[petej]

The Secretary of State for the 18th Century has got off to a mixed start in his new recently elevated position!!!!!

Jacob Rees-Mogg faced repeated criticism from Tory MPs in the Commons over fracking, particularly over what was meant by his claim that drilling would only go ahead with approval from local communities. Some MPs wanted an assurance that residents would get to vote on whether projects should go ahead. But Rees-Mogg refused to promise that.

And those middle class protesters against fracking in leafy Surrey, Dorset and Hampshire were funded by Putin

Nothing too low from the section of the tory party who took money from russian oligarchs and promoted a kgb agents spawn to the house of lords while kicking out a descendent of Winston Churchill from the party.

[Biffer]

Yeah, he's always been like this. An absolute lunatic with absolute lunatic opinions. I don't want to be seen as shouting down "opposing viewpoints" but there's a difference between disagreeing with someone in good faith and arguing with someone in the bimbo/mick/dozy sphere.

Fair enough, I will leave you to your echo chamber.

You guys think that because you are on the side of the angels anybody who disagrees with you is a target for abuse, and you wonder why Labour keep losing? Tony Blair realised that you only win elections by persuading the other side to vote for you. You guys have no interest in doing that, you just want to abuse anybody who disagrees with you. A kinder gentler politics.

If you want to know why Labour keeping losing and why people won't stop voting for F88king Tories. Look in the mirror, you will see the answer staring back at you.

Have fun in your sewer.

Never voted Labour in my life. Though I may just change my habit of a lifetime just to help rid us of this awful right wing cabal that currently rule us.
I haven't noticed anyone abuse you and there is no need to leave.
As for sewer, have you not noticed what your party of choice have been dragging us through for the last umpteen years?

Same here - think I may have voted Labour once in a council election.

Strange how guys like him think that someone disagreeing with them is abuse.

[tabascoboy]

Same here - think I may have voted Labour once in a council election.

And me but in an MEP election and only to kick out the incumbent Tory. NGL though did vote Green in the locals - to get rid of the incumbent Tories!

[Mahoney]

Fair enough, I will leave you to your echo chamber.

You guys think that because you are on the side of the angels anybody who disagrees with you is a target for abuse, and you wonder why Labour keep losing? Tony Blair realised that you only win elections by persuading the other side to vote for you. You guys have no interest in doing that, you just want to abuse anybody who disagrees with you. A kinder gentler politics.

If you want to know why Labour keeping losing and why people won't stop voting for F88king Tories. Look in the mirror, you will see the answer staring back at you.

Have fun in your sewer.

Strange how guys like him think that someone disagreeing with them is abuse.

I mean, he was replying to JM2K6 calling him "An absolute lunatic with absolute lunatic opinions. " That's a bit stronger that disagreeing with him.

[JM2K6]

Yes, that's abuse. I also couldn't give a shit whether he thinks it's abuse or not; anyone who unironically shares Andy Ngo is deeply suspect, and if mdaclarke is representative of the regulary Tory voter then this country is in a much worse state than I realised. But he's not - he's just a fringe weirdo who'd be gobbling down Q-Anon shit if he lived in the USA.

[Slick]

Yes, that's abuse. I also couldn't give a shit whether he thinks it's abuse or not; anyone who unironically shares Andy Ngo is deeply suspect, and if mdaclarke is representative of the regulary Tory voter then this country is in a much worse state than I realised. But he's not - he's just a fringe weirdo who'd be gobbling down Q-Anon shit if he lived in the USA.

You do keep proving him right though

[sockwithaticket]

We're back to the tolerance paradox.

I'm with JMK. There are some people whose views mean you just can't have a discussion. I remember back in the Obama days seeing a US politician say of a woman holding a banner with Obama sporting a Hitler 'stache imposed over a swastika that talking to people like her was akin to talking with a table.

A Tory supporter who wants to go over whether cutting or raising taxes will actually stimulate the economy is one thing. Wilfully misinterpreting Labour policy to mean they'd give a vote to anyone who can step on a UK beach is another entirely.