Stop voting for fucking Tories

[sturginho]

Listening to the News Agents, they're playing some of the highlights. Some absolutely batshit stuff....

[PornDog]

The stats are pretty conclusive that children do better with two parents at home. This doesn't change or invalidate anyone's own experiences or situations to the contrary, but on a macro national level it's what you want for most children.

Broad statistical brushes like that always leave me uneasy.

Is it that children are more likely to do better if their parents stay together across the board, or is it that disadvantaged families are more likely to end in divorce and therefore more disadvantaged kids come from broken homes.

I'm not in a position to disagree with the notion, but when such broad statistical points are used as political footballs it always rubs me the wrong way.

[yermum]

Correlation does not equal causation. And all that jazz

Hindu children do better at maths in the UK

Ergo compulsory Vedic scripture lessons for all will improve maths across the board

[PornDog]

That may well be true, but that fact in isolation is mostly meaningless - and certainly isn't something politicians should be making broad statements, or worse basing policy, on.


In football, most goals are scored from within the box. Glen Hoddle, in his wisdom, decided to base his England strategy on hoofing the ball into the "area of maximum opportunity" whenever the chance arose. He was of course an abject failure in the job.

Broad statistics like that is not information - it's data - and should be treated accordingly.

Families are incredibly complicated things and their success relies on a huge number of factors, both internal and external to that family. Boiling it down to Mum and Dad staying together is what results in a happy family is a load of overly simplistic moronic twaddle!

[I like neeps]

This is genuinely very funny.

[Raggs]

This is genuinely very funny.

I thought at first he was joking around... He's actually serious about having had discussions with Thatcher from behind the grave.

I can handle the idea of being governed by narcissistic egotistic selfish arseholes, I don't enjoy it, but it's not a massive surprise etc. But the idea of being led by people who take this shit seriously is terrifying.

[tabascoboy]

[I like neeps]

This is genuinely very funny.

I thought at first he was joking around... He's actually serious about having had discussions with Thatcher from behind the grave.

I can handle the idea of being governed by narcissistic egotistic selfish arseholes, I don't enjoy it, but it's not a massive surprise etc. But the idea of being led by people who take this shit seriously is terrifying.

Yeah not only take seriously these ideas but don't even almost kind of understand them. The whole conference is a discussion on how globalism is bad, society is good, London financiers are bad, working class in the towns are good. It's the absolute antithesis of Thatcherism.

"We need more Thatcherism, we need to protect national industry, we need to take power away from the financiers, we need stronger communities and societies, we need Thatcherism!". But what they want is an isolationist state with much more intervention into the economy and private lives.

I fully agree we need a new financial model, some of the policies that these insane ramblings lead to I'd be interested in hearing. Probably would agree with some. But what they are doing is a complete rebuke of Thatcherism while talking about how great it is. Just bizarre.

[fishfoodie]

This is genuinely very funny.

I thought at first he was joking around... He's actually serious about having had discussions with Thatcher from behind the grave.

I can handle the idea of being governed by narcissistic egotistic selfish arseholes, I don't enjoy it, but it's not a massive surprise etc. But the idea of being led by people who take this shit seriously is terrifying.

Yeah not only take seriously these ideas but don't even almost kind of understand them. The whole conference is a discussion on how globalism is bad, society is good, London financiers are bad, working class in the towns are good. It's the absolute antithesis of Thatcherism.

"We need more Thatcherism, we need to protect national industry, we need to take power away from the financiers, we need stronger communities and societies, we need Thatcherism!". But what they want is an isolationist state with much more intervention into the economy and private lives.

I fully agree we need a new financial model, some of the policies that these insane ramblings lead to I'd be interested in hearing. Probably would agree with some. But what they are doing is a complete rebuke of Thatcherism while talking about how great it is. Just bizarre.

Well it's ironic they're championing the imaginary Nuclear family that was, because all their policies are divorced from reality.

How do Countries whose Governments are divorced from reality fare ? ..... Oh hang on, the UKs last lettuce, sorry, Prime Minister, tells us how well that works out !

All they've done is, lift-n-shift the bat shit crazy agenda from the furthest right part of the GOP, & drop it like a bucket of pigshit into the UKs political discussion: anti-woke, charter schools, abortion illegal, war on anyone who isn't white, islamaphobic, homophobic, no taxes for m/billionares etc, etc

[tabascoboy]

No surprise here...

Building work pending for many of 40 promised hospitals

Building work is yet to start for 33 of the government's 40 promised new hospitals in England, the BBC has found. Most are still waiting to hear what their final budget will be for the projects with a 2030 deadline. Only two are finished and open.

Ministers aimed to have six ready for 2025 - but none of this group has full planning permission or funding yet.

The government insists it remains committed to meeting the targets. Health leaders say they need urgent clarity.

The BBC looked at the issue last year and since then there has been little progress.When the pledge was announced, in 2019, there was some controversy about exactly what counts as a "new hospital".

NHS guidance says it can range from an entirely new building on a new site to a major refurbishment or alteration.

By October 2020, the commitment was confirmed, with an initial budget of £3.7bn.

Of the 40 hospitals on the list, eight were projects already planned.

BBC News contacted them all, asking for a progress report:

• 33 said they had not started the main building work yet
  Five are under construction
  Two, the Royal Liverpool and the Northern Centre for Cancer Care, are finished and open to patients

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65607962

[tabascoboy]

[I like neeps]

Calling immigrants an invading army looking to destroy our Judeo-Christian ideals has been mainstream in the UK press for about a decade now. I'm surprised he was made to apologise in 2020.

[SaintK]

What a waste of space!!

[GogLais]

No surprise here...

Building work pending for many of 40 promised hospitals

Building work is yet to start for 33 of the government's 40 promised new hospitals in England, the BBC has found. Most are still waiting to hear what their final budget will be for the projects with a 2030 deadline. Only two are finished and open.

Ministers aimed to have six ready for 2025 - but none of this group has full planning permission or funding yet.

The government insists it remains committed to meeting the targets. Health leaders say they need urgent clarity.

The BBC looked at the issue last year and since then there has been little progress.When the pledge was announced, in 2019, there was some controversy about exactly what counts as a "new hospital".

NHS guidance says it can range from an entirely new building on a new site to a major refurbishment or alteration.

By October 2020, the commitment was confirmed, with an initial budget of £3.7bn.

Of the 40 hospitals on the list, eight were projects already planned.

BBC News contacted them all, asking for a progress report:

• 33 said they had not started the main building work yet
  Five are under construction
  Two, the Royal Liverpool and the Northern Centre for Cancer Care, are finished and open to patients

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65607962

Royal Liverpool - wtf? They started building that in the mid 2010s. In fact I did early costings for it In probably the 1990s.

[C69]

No surprise here...

Building work pending for many of 40 promised hospitals

Building work is yet to start for 33 of the government's 40 promised new hospitals in England, the BBC has found. Most are still waiting to hear what their final budget will be for the projects with a 2030 deadline. Only two are finished and open.

Ministers aimed to have six ready for 2025 - but none of this group has full planning permission or funding yet.

The government insists it remains committed to meeting the targets. Health leaders say they need urgent clarity.

The BBC looked at the issue last year and since then there has been little progress.When the pledge was announced, in 2019, there was some controversy about exactly what counts as a "new hospital".

NHS guidance says it can range from an entirely new building on a new site to a major refurbishment or alteration.

By October 2020, the commitment was confirmed, with an initial budget of £3.7bn.

Of the 40 hospitals on the list, eight were projects already planned.

BBC News contacted them all, asking for a progress report:

• 33 said they had not started the main building work yet
  Five are under construction
  Two, the Royal Liverpool and the Northern Centre for Cancer Care, are finished and open to patients

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65607962

Royal Liverpool - wtf? They started building that in the mid 2010s. In fact I did early costings for it In probably the 1990s.

The new Royal Liverpool is wholly unfit for purpose and a complete shambles.
Nobody wants to work there and it's still beset with issues.
The Trust merged in name only with Aintree a couple of years ago and their relationships are as stable as the already crumbling foundations of the Royal.

The management of the Royal from a Nursing Medical and Therapies and Estates is filled with staff pushed out of neighbouring Trusts and because they needed to rid rid of them or very inexperienced chancers who applied for a job because nobody elses wanted it.
It's a crumbling shit hole of poor staff and terrible staffing levels on the brink of being taken in special measures repetedly.

I would not even send Lee Anderton or Boris there.

[GogLais]

No surprise here...

Royal Liverpool - wtf? They started building that in the mid 2010s. In fact I did early costings for it In probably the 1990s.

The new Royal Liverpool is wholly unfit for purpose and a complete shambles.
Nobody wants to work there and it's still beset with issues.
The Trust merged in name only with Aintree a couple of years ago and their relationships are as stable as the already crumbling foundations of the Royal.

The management of the Royal from a Nursing Medical and Therapies and Estates is filled with staff pushed out of neighbouring Trusts and because they needed to rid rid of them or very inexperienced chancers who applied for a job because nobody elses wanted it.
It's a crumbling shit hole of poor staff and terrible staffing levels on the brink of being taken in special measures repetedly.

I would not even send Lee Anderton or Boris there.

I’m well and truly out of the loop but certainly some of the stuff like structural faults is mind-boggling.

[C69]

Royal Liverpool - wtf? They started building that in the mid 2010s. In fact I did early costings for it In probably the 1990s.

The new Royal Liverpool is wholly unfit for purpose and a complete shambles.
Nobody wants to work there and it's still beset with issues.
The Trust merged in name only with Aintree a couple of years ago and their relationships are as stable as the already crumbling foundations of the Royal.

The management of the Royal from a Nursing Medical and Therapies and Estates is filled with staff pushed out of neighbouring Trusts and because they needed to rid rid of them or very inexperienced chancers who applied for a job because nobody elses wanted it.
It's a crumbling shit hole of poor staff and terrible staffing levels on the brink of being taken in special measures repetedly.

I would not even send Lee Anderton or Boris there.

I’m well and truly out of the loop but certainly some of the stuff like structural faults is mind-boggling.

Remember they got sabotaged after the collapse of Carillion when contractors were not going to get paid. It was a shoddy job already years behind.
However ripping out the elctrics and smashing down walls did not help as well as the cement down the toilets and drains on all floors and the destruction of the plumbing systems.
The loss of hundreds of beds compared to the old hospitals was not well thought out either or the new single rooms which need massively more nursing staff.
Lol I could go on

[GogLais]

The new Royal Liverpool is wholly unfit for purpose and a complete shambles.
Nobody wants to work there and it's still beset with issues.
The Trust merged in name only with Aintree a couple of years ago and their relationships are as stable as the already crumbling foundations of the Royal.

The management of the Royal from a Nursing Medical and Therapies and Estates is filled with staff pushed out of neighbouring Trusts and because they needed to rid rid of them or very inexperienced chancers who applied for a job because nobody elses wanted it.
It's a crumbling shit hole of poor staff and terrible staffing levels on the brink of being taken in special measures repetedly.

I would not even send Lee Anderton or Boris there.

I’m well and truly out of the loop but certainly some of the stuff like structural faults is mind-boggling.

Remember they got sabotaged after the collapse of Carillion when contractors were not going to get paid. It was a shoddy job already years behind.
However ripping out the elctrics and smashing down walls did not help as well as the cement down the toilets and drains on all floors and the destruction of the plumbing systems.
The loss of hundreds of beds compared to the old hospitals was not well thought out either or the new single rooms which need massively more nursing staff.
Lol I could go on

Yes I’ve heard that it’s too small, a pretty fundamental error. Of course the move towards single rooms has been a thing for twenty years or so. I’ve only ever had one night in hospital in my life and I’d have paid ££££££££s for a single room.

[sockwithaticket]

Probably an ignorant question, but is there any regulator who might look into deliberate attempts at gerrymandering?

I had thought the Electoral Commission, but their site indicates they basically only look into finances.

[C69]

Probably an ignorant question, but is there any regulator who might look into deliberate attempts at gerrymandering?

I had thought the Electoral Commission, but their site indicates they basically only look into finances.

I would have thought JRM was making an outrageous statement as well.
One that should be independently investigated

[sockwithaticket]

Probably an ignorant question, but is there any regulator who might look into deliberate attempts at gerrymandering?

I had thought the Electoral Commission, but their site indicates they basically only look into finances.

I would have thought JRM was making an outrageous statement as well.
One that should be independently investigated

It's the sort of thing that I feel will be glossed over unless there's any public pressure, but that requires things like people writing to watchdogs and thus far I haven't found one that seems designed for issues like this.

[I like neeps]

Today in Conservative policy... Swimming in sewage is good, actually.

I guess a guy best known for watching Tractor Porn has such little shame they can ask him to say this on TV

[dpedin]

I’m well and truly out of the loop but certainly some of the stuff like structural faults is mind-boggling.

Remember they got sabotaged after the collapse of Carillion when contractors were not going to get paid. It was a shoddy job already years behind.
However ripping out the elctrics and smashing down walls did not help as well as the cement down the toilets and drains on all floors and the destruction of the plumbing systems.
The loss of hundreds of beds compared to the old hospitals was not well thought out either or the new single rooms which need massively more nursing staff.
Lol I could go on

Yes I’ve heard that it’s too small, a pretty fundamental error. Of course the move towards single rooms has been a thing for twenty years or so. I’ve only ever had one night in hospital in my life and I’d have paid ££££££££s for a single room.

In my experience the usual process is for the capital money available to be decided first and the planning assumptions tweaked ie Length of stay, % of day case surgery, community care capacity, etc in order to come to an affordable number of beds for the capital available. Also the revenue consequences need to be affordable ie nurse to bed ratios, numbers of theatres, cleaning costs, etc are all relatively fixed and need to be reverse engineered into the size of hospital that is affordable. If we did it the other way round we would end up with the right number of beds and the right size of hospitals but a blown budget given the cuts in NHS expenditure since 2010.

[C69]

Remember they got sabotaged after the collapse of Carillion when contractors were not going to get paid. It was a shoddy job already years behind.
However ripping out the elctrics and smashing down walls did not help as well as the cement down the toilets and drains on all floors and the destruction of the plumbing systems.
The loss of hundreds of beds compared to the old hospitals was not well thought out either or the new single rooms which need massively more nursing staff.
Lol I could go on

Yes I’ve heard that it’s too small, a pretty fundamental error. Of course the move towards single rooms has been a thing for twenty years or so. I’ve only ever had one night in hospital in my life and I’d have paid ££££££££s for a single room.

In my experience the usual process is for the capital money available to be decided first and the planning assumptions tweaked ie Length of stay, % of day case surgery, community care capacity, etc in order to come to an affordable number of beds for the capital available. Also the revenue consequences need to be affordable ie nurse to bed ratios, numbers of theatres, cleaning costs, etc are all relatively fixed and need to be reverse engineered into the size of hospital that is affordable. If we did it the other way round we would end up with the right number of beds and the right size of hospitals but a blown budget given the cuts in NHS expenditure since 2010.

Yip, agree100%

[Hal Jordan]

I see middle finger displaying MP Andrea Jenkyns has decided that the majority of the country want us out of the ECHR and has launched a petition to present to Parliament. Fucking fascist.

Meanwhile, the Daily Mail runs the headline "Why many in the West are losing faith in democracy and even asking if dictators would do a better job". Lord Rothermere would be proud.

We're a failed state.

[KingBlairhorn]

Has anyone listened to the extraordinary Matt Hancock interview with the News Agents podcast? It really is incredible the mindset of the man - he seems to believe he is some form of injured party in all that has happened around him over the last year or so and even back through the pandemic. He came across to me as exceptionally arrogant but also somewhat thick in the narratives he attempted to spin.

[sturginho]

Has anyone listened to the extraordinary Matt Hancock interview with the News Agents podcast? It really is incredible the mindset of the man - he seems to believe he is some form of injured party in all that has happened around him over the last year or so and even back through the pandemic. He came across to me as exceptionally arrogant but also somewhat thick in the narratives he attempted to spin.

I did listen to it and agree with what you say, I thought they let him off very lightly (they always seem to go too easy on their guests) however they did say afterwards that they thought he was about to start crying so maybe that's why

[tabascoboy]

Has anyone listened to the extraordinary Matt Hancock interview with the News Agents podcast? It really is incredible the mindset of the man - he seems to believe he is some form of injured party in all that has happened around him over the last year or so and even back through the pandemic. He came across to me as exceptionally arrogant but also somewhat thick in the narratives he attempted to spin.

I did listen to it and agree with what you say, I thought they let him off very lightly (they always seem to go too easy on their guests) however they did say afterwards that they thought he was about to start crying so maybe that's why

Hancock (another over-promoted lightweight) was destroyed by Cummings as well, one of his many victims, but even so it's impossible to have any sympathy for him following his role in "Partygate" and getting drunk on his sense of power in Government. He contributed way too much to his own downfall and ruined the lives of too many to play the sympathy card.

[SaintK]

Has anyone listened to the extraordinary Matt Hancock interview with the News Agents podcast? It really is incredible the mindset of the man - he seems to believe he is some form of injured party in all that has happened around him over the last year or so and even back through the pandemic. He came across to me as exceptionally arrogant but also somewhat thick in the narratives he attempted to spin.

I did listen to it and agree with what you say, I thought they let him off very lightly (they always seem to go too easy on their guests) however they did say afterwards that they thought he was about to start crying so maybe that's why

Hancock (another over-promoted lightweight) was destroyed by Cummings as well, one of his many victims, but even so it's impossible to have any sympathy for him following his role in "Partygate" and getting drunk on his sense of power in Government. He contributed way too much to his own downfall and ruined the lives of too many to play the sympathy card.

Complete and utter twat!!!
https://cdn.jwplayer.com/previews/D7IAGmoH

[KingBlairhorn]

Has anyone listened to the extraordinary Matt Hancock interview with the News Agents podcast? It really is incredible the mindset of the man - he seems to believe he is some form of injured party in all that has happened around him over the last year or so and even back through the pandemic. He came across to me as exceptionally arrogant but also somewhat thick in the narratives he attempted to spin.

I did listen to it and agree with what you say, I thought they let him off very lightly (they always seem to go too easy on their guests) however they did say afterwards that they thought he was about to start crying so maybe that's why

Obviously politicians will always try to control the questions they answer and ultimately the narrative of the conversation, but it struck me that he truly didn't expect to be asked some of the questions he was asked. He genuinely thought it was unfair to ask him.

The whole bit around the whatsapps and Oakeshot's leaks was very whiffy too. She claims she has something on him, he claims she doesn't but he halted all legal action despite her breaking an NDA to publish them. He then claims the messages absolve him of the 'conspiracy theories' despite the claims she has made and the generally held consensus that only some of the messages were released and expects us to believe it. Pie in the sky stuff.

[SaintK]

But he's not an MP, he's a normal person

[tabascoboy]

[_Os_]

Tees Valley is going to need a sub thread within this thread at the rate it's going.

Just seen this. I've made comparisons between the Tories and the ANC on the odd occasion, this one is in that league, definitely parts of SA where this would never happen and be a major incident if it did (as in the elected official would be struggling to stay on). In technical political science terms Tees Valley seems absolutely fucked from head to toe.

Summary: A Tory police and crime commissioner who was also a council election candidate, looks to have abused his power possibly (terms I'm using to stay legally safe) instructing the police to investigate a rival Labour candidate for fraud. Three Labour members having the police turn up at their door and being investigated. Another rival political candidate (doesn't say which party) accused of harassment and also investigated by the police. Police giving the Tory candidate a read out of how it all went.

[tabascoboy]

How typical, following the local elections and the borough changing from CON to NOC, two "independents" have suddenly decided they're closet Tories and will prop them up to keep control ( gaining nice positions for themselves as a reward). I realise that the council still has to be able to function operationally and fiscally but this is pretty rotten behaviour that once again shows how little we can trust politicians right down to local level.

Instead of debating consensus on an issue by issue basis, all matters likely to simply by rubber-stamped by this "partnership" that the constituency did not vote for.

[C69]

Poor Suella, now reported as trying to use influence to get off a speeding fine/course.

[sockwithaticket]

Which is a microcosm of why she and the various other cabinet fuckwits are always so anti-civil servant. They focus too much on the servant word and expect to have all their requests and whims facilitated rather than receive answers as to why certain things aren't possible (often because they're illegal or unlawful).

[sockwithaticket]

How typical, following the local elections and the borough changing from CON to NOC, two "independents" have suddenly decided they're closet Tories and will prop them up to keep control ( gaining nice positions for themselves as a reward). I realise that the council still has to be able to function operationally and fiscally but this is pretty rotten behaviour that once again shows how little we can trust politicians right down to local level.

Instead of debating consensus on an issue by issue basis, all matters likely to simply by rubber-stamped by this "partnership" that the constituency did not vote for.

How is it that elected officials changing their party/independent status doesn't trigger a new election? It's clearly not what their constituents voted for.

[C69]

How typical, following the local elections and the borough changing from CON to NOC, two "independents" have suddenly decided they're closet Tories and will prop them up to keep control ( gaining nice positions for themselves as a reward). I realise that the council still has to be able to function operationally and fiscally but this is pretty rotten behaviour that once again shows how little we can trust politicians right down to local level.

Instead of debating consensus on an issue by issue basis, all matters likely to simply by rubber-stamped by this "partnership" that the constituency did not vote for.

How is it that elected officials changing their party/independent status doesn't trigger a new election? It's clearly not what their constituents voted for.

Same happens in the HOC. It's difficult and complicated.

[GogLais]

How typical, following the local elections and the borough changing from CON to NOC, two "independents" have suddenly decided they're closet Tories and will prop them up to keep control ( gaining nice positions for themselves as a reward). I realise that the council still has to be able to function operationally and fiscally but this is pretty rotten behaviour that once again shows how little we can trust politicians right down to local level.

Instead of debating consensus on an issue by issue basis, all matters likely to simply by rubber-stamped by this "partnership" that the constituency did not vote for.

How is it that elected officials changing their party/independent status doesn't trigger a new election? It's clearly not what their constituents voted for.

If you stopped them changing parties officially they’d just do it unofficially.

[SaintK]

Poor Suella, now reported as trying to use influence to get off a speeding fine/course.

Not quite true
She wanted her civil servants to arrange an anonymous, private one on one speed awareness course for her as points on her licence might have increased her insurance costs.
Strange really as her position as Attorney General at the time came with 24 hour access to a government chauffered car!!!