Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Biffer]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66215122

Can't wait to see how Labour improve our public services. This "reform" sounds very exciting. I'm sure Labours reform without money will be much better than the Tories reform without money.

At this stage, we don’t know what ‘more’ actually means. The Tories will fuck around with budgets over the next year or so, and that’s the baseline you’ll work from.

[Insane_Homer]

Screenshot_20230716-155526.png (486.83 KiB) Viewed 2234 times

[Sandstorm]

[Insane_Homer]

https://blackislemedia.com/2023/03/27/t ... ation/?amp

Reported in the Times, fucking paywalled.

Tory MP Andrew Rosindell is under police investigation [since Jan 2020] for sexual offences and misconduct in public office. He has not set foot in parliament since being arrested and has been reselected as candidate for next GE.

His constituents do not know.

[fishfoodie]

https://blackislemedia.com/2023/03/27/t ... ation/?amp

Reported in the Times, fucking paywalled.

Tory MP Andrew Rosindell is under police investigation [since Jan 2020] for sexual offences and misconduct in public office. He has not set foot in parliament since being arrested and has been reselected as candidate for next GE.

His constituents do not know.

Three.Fucking.Years !

Defund the Met !

Now you can see why the Tories have made a concerted effort to destroy the Judicial system.

[Insane_Homer]

The Health Secretary is resorting to giving patients virtual reality tours of the promised 40 new hospitals as they haven’t actually been built.

Steve Barclay is putting on roadshows across the country to give the public the chance to put on headsets and pretend they’re getting treated in the new facilities.

[Jock42]

Don't read or post on political threads much these days but had to vent a little about this utter bellend. He can fuck right off the self serving toby

[I like neeps]

Quite funny. They need to quickly reframe this as Labour are actually quite sensibly reforming how much kids eat.

[robmatic]

I see the next very well thought through Tory plan for immigration is to absolutely whack up the visa fees, including the fee that they pretend is for NHS usage. I reckon it would now cost me and my wife the best part of £10k just for her visa applications if we wanted to return to the UK to settle.

[sockwithaticket]

I must have missed it, what exactly are they trying to blame Starmer for with that playground (but likely effective *sigh*) nickname?

Don't read or post on political threads much these days but had to vent a little about this utter bellend. He can fuck right off the self serving toby

Shouting from afar will not improve women’s rights.

Cosying up to them isn't likely to do much either. Women's rights aren't really on their to do list.

What a creep Elwood is.

[dpedin]

I see the next very well thought through Tory plan for immigration is to absolutely whack up the visa fees, including the fee that they pretend is for NHS usage. I reckon it would now cost me and my wife the best part of £10k just for her visa applications if we wanted to return to the UK to settle.

It has been a problem for some time and it has made many folk think twice about coming to work in UK - many docs and nurses are already turning their back on coming to the UK to work and are going to countries that actually makes them feel valued and wanted. It just isn't financially viable for many to come here now.

[ASMO]

I see the next very well thought through Tory plan for immigration is to absolutely whack up the visa fees, including the fee that they pretend is for NHS usage. I reckon it would now cost me and my wife the best part of £10k just for her visa applications if we wanted to return to the UK to settle.

It has been a problem for some time and it has made many folk think twice about coming to work in UK - many docs and nurses are already turning their back on coming to the UK to work and are going to countries that actually makes them feel valued and wanted. It just isn't financially viable for many to come here now.

I can guarantee that the Tories are now, knowing they are going to be vaporised at the next election, already sabotaging the economy and govt departments so that Labour inherit a huge shitshow that they have no hope of fixing in the short term giving the tory scum free reign to blame it all in Labour.

[_Os_]

I must have missed it, what exactly are they trying to blame Starmer for with that playground (but likely effective *sigh*) nickname?

Starmer is now rowing back on removing the 2 child limit, which prevents claiming child tax credit/universal credit for any (third or more) child born after 2017. It was brought in to try to force parents into work, or work more hours if they do already. It has achieved putting 1.5m children into poverty, which could be alleviated by removing the 2 child limit and spending the £1.3b. The Tories brought it in with the usual class war stuff, "if they cannot afford children they shouldn't have them" type rhetoric, as well as some racism in the darker corners of the Tory support base. It was an outright attack on Labour's supporters.

Now the official position of both the Tories and Labour is that no one should have more than two children unless they are rich (this gets confusing with some Tories who also wanting to ban abortion, but no one could accuse them of joined up thinking), when it has become extremely expensive to just live a normal life in the UK, and the UK's birth rate is below replacement rate.

It's made Labour supporters particularly angry, because Labour have consistently opposed the 2 child limit under Corbyn and under Starmer, there's quotes from Labour's front bench saying it's basically evil. Now it's suddenly necessary and nothing can change. At this rate nom-dom tax rules are going to become necessary and something which cannot ever change.

When Labour get into power, the feeling of relief is going to be brief. Then Starmer and friends are going to start saying everything is fucked but nothing can change, which will mean only two possible outcomes. Starmer turns out to be a windsock and various pressure groups will get to dictate to him, unions/"remainers"/environmentalists. Starmer wins and continues this Tory administration unchanged, which would mean social and political chaos, Labour ending up as damaged as the Tories are now.

[sockwithaticket]

I must have missed it, what exactly are they trying to blame Starmer for with that playground (but likely effective *sigh*) nickname?

Starmer is now rowing back on removing the 2 child limit, which prevents claiming child tax credit/universal credit for any (third or more) child born after 2017. It was brought in to try to force parents into work, or work more hours if they do already. It has achieved putting 1.5m children into poverty, which could be alleviated by removing the 2 child limit and spending the £1.3b. The Tories brought it in with the usual class war stuff, "if they cannot afford children they shouldn't have them" type rhetoric, as well as some racism in the darker corners of the Tory support base. It was an outright attack on Labour's supporters.

Now the official position of both the Tories and Labour is that no one should have more than two children unless they are rich (this gets confusing with some Tories who also wanting to ban abortion, but no one could accuse them of joined up thinking), when it has become extremely expensive to just live a normal life in the UK, and the UK's birth rate is below replacement rate.

It's made Labour supporters particularly angry, because Labour have consistently opposed the 2 child limit under Corbyn and under Starmer, there's quotes from Labour's front bench saying it's basically evil. Now it's suddenly necessary and nothing can change. At this rate nom-dom tax rules are going to become necessary and something which cannot ever change.

When Labour get into power, the feeling of relief is going to be brief. Then Starmer and friends are going to start saying everything is fucked but nothing can change, which will mean only two possible outcomes. Starmer turns out to be a windsock and various pressure groups will get to dictate to him, unions/"remainers"/environmentalists. Starmer wins and continues this Tory administration unchanged, which would mean social and political chaos, Labour ending up as damaged as the Tories are now.

Fuck's sake. I really want to try and be optimistic about an incoming Labour government, but they're trying so hard to appeal to who they perceive the red-wall and 'sensible conservative' voters to be that they're really testing the voting intention of those on the left. They need to be careful about not alienating core support.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It seems unlikely the electorate who voted for Brexit will accept there aren't any magic buttons to fix everything and correcting the impact of the Tories, or an ageing population, or the pandemic of Brexit, of the rise of China and India, the war in Ukraine will be slow, and not even always a path that sees progress

which is a big concern arising out of Brexit, we've already voted for one monumentally stupid course of action, so the odds are we'll vote for another. whether one quite as bad as say Farage for PM we'll have to wait and see

[_Os_]

Fuck's sake. I really want to try and be optimistic about an incoming Labour government, but they're trying so hard to appeal to who they perceive the red-wall and 'sensible conservative' voters to be that they're really testing the voting intention of those on the left. They need to be careful about not alienating core support.

You have to go on what they're saying. If they're lying, well that's on them. Only a fool goes with the "they're saying this, but don't really mean it and are trying to capture xyz category of voter, and will really do this other thing they say they're against but I quite like" method.

Before Labour won in 1997 there were plans for what they wanted to do in power, which they campaigned on, a lot of it had mixed results but it was there: ethical foreign policy, devolution, mayors, lords reform (ending hereditary peers), PFI, minimum wage, new deal/workfare, freedom of information.

Since 2010 there's been no plan, other than austerity which was about not having a plan. Then the Tories found their plan with Brexit, which was worse than not having a plan. Now on the back of all that, Starmer's big offer is slowly turning into "everything is fucked and nothing can ever change". If he actually manages to implement that for 5 to 10 years, the UK will become more politically extreme and fragmented. Hard to imagine how desperate people will be after (what would be) about a quarter of a century of stagnation and the total failure of both the Tories and Labour.

[Sandstorm]

Fuck's sake. I really want to try and be optimistic about an incoming Labour government, but they're trying so hard to appeal to who they perceive the red-wall and 'sensible conservative' voters to be that they're really testing the voting intention of those on the left. They need to be careful about not alienating core support.

You have to go on what they're saying. If they're lying, well that's on them. Only a fool goes with the "they're saying this, but don't really mean it and are trying to capture xyz category of voter, and will really do this other thing they say they're against but I quite like" method.

Before Labour won in 1997 there were plans for what they wanted to do in power, which they campaigned on, a lot of it had mixed results but it was there: ethical foreign policy, devolution, mayors, lords reform (ending hereditary peers), PFI, minimum wage, new deal/workfare, freedom of information.

Since 2010 there's been no plan, other than austerity which was about not having a plan. Then the Tories found their plan with Brexit, which was worse than not having a plan. Now on the back of all that, Starmer's big offer is slowly turning into "everything is fucked and nothing can ever change". If he actually manages to implement that for 5 to 10 years, the UK will become more politically extreme and fragmented. Hard to imagine how desperate people will be after (what would be) about a quarter of a century of stagnation and the total failure of both the Tories and Labour.

Starmer needs a plan - any plan - and to start talking about it. I'm a Tory voter who is sick of their shite and want them out. But if Labour are just Tory MK2 for the next 5-10 years, then it's all over red rover for the UK.

[JM2K6]

I must have missed it, what exactly are they trying to blame Starmer for with that playground (but likely effective *sigh*) nickname?

Starmer is now rowing back on removing the 2 child limit, which prevents claiming child tax credit/universal credit for any (third or more) child born after 2017. It was brought in to try to force parents into work, or work more hours if they do already. It has achieved putting 1.5m children into poverty, which could be alleviated by removing the 2 child limit and spending the £1.3b. The Tories brought it in with the usual class war stuff, "if they cannot afford children they shouldn't have them" type rhetoric, as well as some racism in the darker corners of the Tory support base. It was an outright attack on Labour's supporters.

Now the official position of both the Tories and Labour is that no one should have more than two children unless they are rich (this gets confusing with some Tories who also wanting to ban abortion, but no one could accuse them of joined up thinking), when it has become extremely expensive to just live a normal life in the UK, and the UK's birth rate is below replacement rate.

It's made Labour supporters particularly angry, because Labour have consistently opposed the 2 child limit under Corbyn and under Starmer, there's quotes from Labour's front bench saying it's basically evil. Now it's suddenly necessary and nothing can change. At this rate nom-dom tax rules are going to become necessary and something which cannot ever change.

When Labour get into power, the feeling of relief is going to be brief. Then Starmer and friends are going to start saying everything is fucked but nothing can change, which will mean only two possible outcomes. Starmer turns out to be a windsock and various pressure groups will get to dictate to him, unions/"remainers"/environmentalists. Starmer wins and continues this Tory administration unchanged, which would mean social and political chaos, Labour ending up as damaged as the Tories are now.

Fuck's sake. I really want to try and be optimistic about an incoming Labour government, but they're trying so hard to appeal to who they perceive the red-wall and 'sensible conservative' voters to be that they're really testing the voting intention of those on the left. They need to be careful about not alienating core support.

They're also trying very hard not to commit to anything there's unlikely to be money for in the current climate. Everything this lot does is geared towards neutering the classic attack lines against Labour. In this case, it's the magic money tree / socialists spending everyone's money nonsense. But at some point the defensive approach becomes cowardice - you have to give people something to vote for.

There's no point making promises that can't possibly be followed through on, fair enough. But there are ways of raising funding that they are too scared to mention for fear of giving the Tory press a field day. By boiling everything down to this election calculation, Labour under Starmer has given up any right to be considered a progressive party. They might still be one, but you wouldn't know it after the last six months.

The world has changed post Covid and the economic situation they will inherit is dire, no question. But that also means that maintaining the status quo and not rocking the boat because you fear various political establishments more than you care about the electorate is not going to help one bit.

[Yeeb]

It seems unlikely the electorate who voted for Brexit will accept there aren't any magic buttons to fix everything and correcting the impact of the Tories, or an ageing population, or the pandemic of Brexit, of the rise of China and India, the war in Ukraine will be slow, and not even always a path that sees progress

which is a big concern arising out of Brexit, we've already voted for one monumentally stupid course of action, so the odds are we'll vote for another. whether one quite as bad as say Farage for PM we'll have to wait and see

Oh there are magic buttons, it’s just they are electoral suicide:
Freeze / cut state pensions and put those savings into the nhs as the oldies take up 75% of the burden
Properly pay and train nurses etc that the country needs, rather than importing bank staff expensively
Concerted housebuilding national programme & planning reform
Use the navy to prevent dinghies coming across
Prisoners from abroad to be deported / countries foot their bill
Abolish public sector final salary pensions
Increase in income tax
Lowering corp tax

Labour won’t at present seek joining Eu again so no real use blaming brexit for anything, the country is now only accountable to itself - in theory they could press some magic buttons , in practice it will be more of the same muddling through the last 30 years has done

[_Os_]

which is a big concern arising out of Brexit, we've already voted for one monumentally stupid course of action, so the odds are we'll vote for another. whether one quite as bad as say Farage for PM we'll have to wait and see

Something like that is basically my big fear if Labour get in and fail badly. Brexit winning and then Labour winning by a landslide, would boiled down be a "demand for radical change". But in this scenario not much would've changed for the better.

Which would open the way for extremists on both sides and their solutions, in crude single word terms communism and fascism. One side will be desperate for redistribution of wealth, turbo Corbynism. The other (aided by the Tory supporting billionaire owned media), will in reaction turbo charge everything we've seen from that side already anti-immigration/racism/pro-authoritarian policing/anti-green climate denialism/populist noise blaming anyone that isn't them.

[I like neeps]

Fuck's sake. I really want to try and be optimistic about an incoming Labour government, but they're trying so hard to appeal to who they perceive the red-wall and 'sensible conservative' voters to be that they're really testing the voting intention of those on the left. They need to be careful about not alienating core support.

You have to go on what they're saying. If they're lying, well that's on them. Only a fool goes with the "they're saying this, but don't really mean it and are trying to capture xyz category of voter, and will really do this other thing they say they're against but I quite like" method.

Before Labour won in 1997 there were plans for what they wanted to do in power, which they campaigned on, a lot of it had mixed results but it was there: ethical foreign policy, devolution, mayors, lords reform (ending hereditary peers), PFI, minimum wage, new deal/workfare, freedom of information.

Since 2010 there's been no plan, other than austerity which was about not having a plan. Then the Tories found their plan with Brexit, which was worse than not having a plan. Now on the back of all that, Starmer's big offer is slowly turning into "everything is fucked and nothing can ever change". If he actually manages to implement that for 5 to 10 years, the UK will become more politically extreme and fragmented. Hard to imagine how desperate people will be after (what would be) about a quarter of a century of stagnation and the total failure of both the Tories and Labour.

Couldn't agree more. Starmer has no vision, no plan, and the one he claimed to have was one big lie. It's great to see everyone come round to that.

A thoroughly unprincipled individual who will say anything for power. For shame.

[tabascoboy]

Unfortunately the loudest individuals with a "vision" are people you'd hesitate to even put in charge of an ice-cream stand for 15 mins

[sockwithaticket]

Starmer is now rowing back on removing the 2 child limit, which prevents claiming child tax credit/universal credit for any (third or more) child born after 2017. It was brought in to try to force parents into work, or work more hours if they do already. It has achieved putting 1.5m children into poverty, which could be alleviated by removing the 2 child limit and spending the £1.3b. The Tories brought it in with the usual class war stuff, "if they cannot afford children they shouldn't have them" type rhetoric, as well as some racism in the darker corners of the Tory support base. It was an outright attack on Labour's supporters.

Now the official position of both the Tories and Labour is that no one should have more than two children unless they are rich (this gets confusing with some Tories who also wanting to ban abortion, but no one could accuse them of joined up thinking), when it has become extremely expensive to just live a normal life in the UK, and the UK's birth rate is below replacement rate.

It's made Labour supporters particularly angry, because Labour have consistently opposed the 2 child limit under Corbyn and under Starmer, there's quotes from Labour's front bench saying it's basically evil. Now it's suddenly necessary and nothing can change. At this rate nom-dom tax rules are going to become necessary and something which cannot ever change.

When Labour get into power, the feeling of relief is going to be brief. Then Starmer and friends are going to start saying everything is fucked but nothing can change, which will mean only two possible outcomes. Starmer turns out to be a windsock and various pressure groups will get to dictate to him, unions/"remainers"/environmentalists. Starmer wins and continues this Tory administration unchanged, which would mean social and political chaos, Labour ending up as damaged as the Tories are now.

Fuck's sake. I really want to try and be optimistic about an incoming Labour government, but they're trying so hard to appeal to who they perceive the red-wall and 'sensible conservative' voters to be that they're really testing the voting intention of those on the left. They need to be careful about not alienating core support.

They're also trying very hard not to commit to anything there's unlikely to be money for in the current climate. Everything this lot does is geared towards neutering the classic attack lines against Labour. In this case, it's the magic money tree / socialists spending everyone's money nonsense. But at some point the defensive approach becomes cowardice - you have to give people something to vote for.

There's no point making promises that can't possibly be followed through on, fair enough. But there are ways of raising funding that they are too scared to mention for fear of giving the Tory press a field day. By boiling everything down to this election calculation, Labour under Starmer has given up any right to be considered a progressive party. They might still be one, but you wouldn't know it after the last six months.

The world has changed post Covid and the economic situation they will inherit is dire, no question. But that also means that maintaining the status quo and not rocking the boat because you fear various political establishments more than you care about the electorate is not going to help one bit.

Which I definitely understand, but the right wing press are not shy of just making shit up or reporting in such a skewed fashion that it might as well be pure fantasy. If their paymasters think keeping the Tories in place makes them more money than apparently directionless Labour, then the attacks will still come and all Labour will have achieved is dampening their own support.

It's all so dispiriting.

[Sandstorm]

It seems unlikely the electorate who voted for Brexit will accept there aren't any magic buttons to fix everything and correcting the impact of the Tories, or an ageing population, or the pandemic of Brexit, of the rise of China and India, the war in Ukraine will be slow, and not even always a path that sees progress

which is a big concern arising out of Brexit, we've already voted for one monumentally stupid course of action, so the odds are we'll vote for another. whether one quite as bad as say Farage for PM we'll have to wait and see

Oh there are magic buttons, it’s just they are electoral suicide:
Freeze / cut state pensions and put those savings into the nhs as the oldies take up 75% of the burden
Properly pay and train nurses etc that the country needs, rather than importing bank staff expensively
Concerted housebuilding national programme & planning reform
Use the navy to prevent dinghies coming across
Prisoners from abroad to be deported / countries foot their bill
Abolish public sector final salary pensions
Increase in income tax
Lowering corp tax

Labour won’t at present seek joining Eu again so no real use blaming brexit for anything, the country is now only accountable to itself - in theory they could press some magic buttons , in practice it will be more of the same muddling through the last 30 years has done

These are not suicide, they're good policies voters will support:
Properly pay and train nurses etc that the country needs, rather than importing bank staff expensively
Concerted housebuilding national programme & planning reform
Increase in income tax
Lowering corp tax

These are suicide - unfortunately because they're necessary. Unions would have kittens anyway.:
Abolish public sector final salary pensions
Freeze / cut state pensions and put those savings into the nhs as the oldies take up 75% of the burden

These two I reckon many would be on the fence:
Use the navy to prevent dinghies coming across
Prisoners from abroad to be deported / countries foot their bill

[_Os_]

Unfortunately the loudest individuals with a "vision" are people you'd hesitate to even put in charge of an ice-cream stand for 15 mins

Would Truss have failed at a task in "The Apprentice"?

[Yeeb]

It seems unlikely the electorate who voted for Brexit will accept there aren't any magic buttons to fix everything and correcting the impact of the Tories, or an ageing population, or the pandemic of Brexit, of the rise of China and India, the war in Ukraine will be slow, and not even always a path that sees progress

which is a big concern arising out of Brexit, we've already voted for one monumentally stupid course of action, so the odds are we'll vote for another. whether one quite as bad as say Farage for PM we'll have to wait and see

Oh there are magic buttons, it’s just they are electoral suicide:
Freeze / cut state pensions and put those savings into the nhs as the oldies take up 75% of the burden
Properly pay and train nurses etc that the country needs, rather than importing bank staff expensively
Concerted housebuilding national programme & planning reform
Use the navy to prevent dinghies coming across
Prisoners from abroad to be deported / countries foot their bill
Abolish public sector final salary pensions
Increase in income tax
Lowering corp tax

Labour won’t at present seek joining Eu again so no real use blaming brexit for anything, the country is now only accountable to itself - in theory they could press some magic buttons , in practice it will be more of the same muddling through the last 30 years has done

These are not suicide, they're good policies voters will support:
Properly pay and train nurses etc that the country needs, rather than importing bank staff expensively
Concerted housebuilding national programme & planning reform
Increase in income tax
Lowering corp tax

These are suicide - unfortunately because they're necessary. Unions would have kittens anyway.:
Abolish public sector final salary pensions
Freeze / cut state pensions and put those savings into the nhs as the oldies take up 75% of the burden

These two I reckon many would be on the fence:
Use the navy to prevent dinghies coming across
Prisoners from abroad to be deported / countries foot their bill

Nah, Uk voters have never agreed to increase personal taxes or voted that way, which is why it’s suicide. Paying nurses more would be great and everyone thinks that, how to fund it is the big question. Mostly , people wants big evil companies to pay more, not less - they don’t care or see how higher taxes merely makes companies locate elsewhere.
Personally, I’d be in favour of re hypothecation of taxes so that tax revenue versus what’s it’s spent on is clear.

Eg in 2022 Uk stamp duty revenue was £15.4billion, latest govt housebuilding stat I could find quickly was £7.2b over 4 years ! So approx 1/10 of the stamp revenue was spent on building new houses - to me this is beyond daft.

Spending on roads £11b a year & rail £8b a year V fuel duty receipts of £25b a year

[Biffer]

Oh there are magic buttons, it’s just they are electoral suicide:
Freeze / cut state pensions and put those savings into the nhs as the oldies take up 75% of the burden
Properly pay and train nurses etc that the country needs, rather than importing bank staff expensively
Concerted housebuilding national programme & planning reform
Use the navy to prevent dinghies coming across
Prisoners from abroad to be deported / countries foot their bill
Abolish public sector final salary pensions
Increase in income tax
Lowering corp tax

Labour won’t at present seek joining Eu again so no real use blaming brexit for anything, the country is now only accountable to itself - in theory they could press some magic buttons , in practice it will be more of the same muddling through the last 30 years has done

These are not suicide, they're good policies voters will support:
Properly pay and train nurses etc that the country needs, rather than importing bank staff expensively
Concerted housebuilding national programme & planning reform
Increase in income tax
Lowering corp tax

These are suicide - unfortunately because they're necessary. Unions would have kittens anyway.:
Abolish public sector final salary pensions
Freeze / cut state pensions and put those savings into the nhs as the oldies take up 75% of the burden

These two I reckon many would be on the fence:
Use the navy to prevent dinghies coming across
Prisoners from abroad to be deported / countries foot their bill

Nah, Uk voters have never agreed to increase personal taxes or voted that way, which is why it’s suicide. Paying nurses more would be great and everyone thinks that, how to fund it is the big question. Mostly , people wants big evil companies to pay more, not less - they don’t care or see how higher taxes merely makes companies locate elsewhere.
Personally, I’d be in favour of re hypothecation of taxes so that tax revenue versus what’s it’s spent on is clear.

Eg in 2022 Uk stamp duty revenue was £15.4billion, latest govt housebuilding stat I could find quickly was £7.2b over 4 years ! So approx 1/10 of the stamp revenue was spent on building new houses - to me this is beyond daft.

Spending on roads £11b a year & rail £8b a year V fuel duty receipts of £25b a year

Scottish voters voted to increase income tax.

[Biffer]

Another thing that Tony Blair had which Keir Starmer doesn't was John Prescott. For all his faults, you could set Prescott loose as an old school labour attack dog, and then laugh off anything off message as 'John being John'. That was quietly effective in ridiculing the Tories.

[Yeeb]

These are not suicide, they're good policies voters will support:
Properly pay and train nurses etc that the country needs, rather than importing bank staff expensively
Concerted housebuilding national programme & planning reform
Increase in income tax
Lowering corp tax

These are suicide - unfortunately because they're necessary. Unions would have kittens anyway.:
Abolish public sector final salary pensions
Freeze / cut state pensions and put those savings into the nhs as the oldies take up 75% of the burden

These two I reckon many would be on the fence:
Use the navy to prevent dinghies coming across
Prisoners from abroad to be deported / countries foot their bill

Nah, Uk voters have never agreed to increase personal taxes or voted that way, which is why it’s suicide. Paying nurses more would be great and everyone thinks that, how to fund it is the big question. Mostly , people wants big evil companies to pay more, not less - they don’t care or see how higher taxes merely makes companies locate elsewhere.
Personally, I’d be in favour of re hypothecation of taxes so that tax revenue versus what’s it’s spent on is clear.

Eg in 2022 Uk stamp duty revenue was £15.4billion, latest govt housebuilding stat I could find quickly was £7.2b over 4 years ! So approx 1/10 of the stamp revenue was spent on building new houses - to me this is beyond daft.

Spending on roads £11b a year & rail £8b a year V fuel duty receipts of £25b a year

Scottish voters voted to increase income tax.

I stand corrected - but mostly, people don’t vote for higher taxes in manefestos . Tbh there can’t be more than a few dozen jocks who pay higher rate taxes anyways there so will make bugger all difference to how much they leech off the South east

[I like neeps]

Nah, Uk voters have never agreed to increase personal taxes or voted that way, which is why it’s suicide. Paying nurses more would be great and everyone thinks that, how to fund it is the big question. Mostly , people wants big evil companies to pay more, not less - they don’t care or see how higher taxes merely makes companies locate elsewhere.
Personally, I’d be in favour of re hypothecation of taxes so that tax revenue versus what’s it’s spent on is clear.

Eg in 2022 Uk stamp duty revenue was £15.4billion, latest govt housebuilding stat I could find quickly was £7.2b over 4 years ! So approx 1/10 of the stamp revenue was spent on building new houses - to me this is beyond daft.

Spending on roads £11b a year & rail £8b a year V fuel duty receipts of £25b a year

Scottish voters voted to increase income tax.

I stand corrected - but mostly, people don’t vote for higher taxes in manefestos . Tbh there can’t be more than a few dozen jocks who pay higher rate taxes anyways there so will make bugger all difference to how much they leech off the South east

What's needed is a wealth tax, as incomes haven't increased in a decade but wealth has. But nobody is voting for their house to be worth less. The fundamental problem in this country is wealth being tied up in housing meaning there's no incentive to invest in productive enterprise/new houses. And the second is all our public services (except health which should be a European insurance model tbh) are owned by lecherous asset strippers from abroad.

[Yeeb]

Scottish voters voted to increase income tax.

I stand corrected - but mostly, people don’t vote for higher taxes in manefestos . Tbh there can’t be more than a few dozen jocks who pay higher rate taxes anyways there so will make bugger all difference to how much they leech off the South east

What's needed is a wealth tax, as incomes haven't increased in a decade but wealth has. But nobody is voting for their house to be worth less. The fundamental problem in this country is wealth being tied up in housing meaning there's no incentive to invest in productive enterprise/new houses. And the second is all our public services (except health which should be a European insurance model tbh) are owned by lecherous asset strippers from abroad.

Some bits of wealth tax, yes - ending nom don status for example , cgt exemptions - but it would surely be far less efficient tax harvest and valuing people horse stables and oil paintings , when it’s far easier to tax at source like their fuel on the Aga & Aston Martin.

The truly wealthy clearly pay far too little tax, and the middle class increasingly burdened . The bottom deciles pay so little tax in total anyways, I would raise the limit and make more personal tax exempt.

Am on phone so can’t find the thing I saw before from Uk stats, but iirc the bottom 2or 3 deciles paid only 8% of the Uk income tax revenue , yet their marginal rate of all taxes was 40%+ and higher rate than those in the top deciles - those rates are surely the wrong way around !

[I like neeps]

I stand corrected - but mostly, people don’t vote for higher taxes in manefestos . Tbh there can’t be more than a few dozen jocks who pay higher rate taxes anyways there so will make bugger all difference to how much they leech off the South east

What's needed is a wealth tax, as incomes haven't increased in a decade but wealth has. But nobody is voting for their house to be worth less. The fundamental problem in this country is wealth being tied up in housing meaning there's no incentive to invest in productive enterprise/new houses. And the second is all our public services (except health which should be a European insurance model tbh) are owned by lecherous asset strippers from abroad.

Some bits of wealth tax, yes - ending nom don status for example , cgt exemptions - but it would surely be far less efficient tax harvest and valuing people horse stables and oil paintings , when it’s far easier to tax at source like their fuel on the Aga & Aston Martin.

The truly wealthy clearly pay far too little tax, and the middle class increasingly burdened . The bottom deciles pay so little tax in total anyways, I would raise the limit and make more personal tax exempt.

No I mean on houses. People through no skill have become wealthy by living in a house for 20 years. And it's massively distorted the economy. Or don't tax it but just change planning regulation to mean development is actively encouraged and the value declines naturally.

Sadly, the horse has bolted on the truly wealthy paying tax. Non Dom tax won't really work as the Non Doms will Dom elsewhere.

[sockwithaticket]

Fuck it, asset seizure/earning seizure. Whatever. You're capped at being worth 50m, anything above that goes back into the public purse. That's still a huge amount more money than anyone needs and I'd reserve the right to bring it down further, but let's start with the worst of the hoarders first.

[Yeeb]

What's needed is a wealth tax, as incomes haven't increased in a decade but wealth has. But nobody is voting for their house to be worth less. The fundamental problem in this country is wealth being tied up in housing meaning there's no incentive to invest in productive enterprise/new houses. And the second is all our public services (except health which should be a European insurance model tbh) are owned by lecherous asset strippers from abroad.

Some bits of wealth tax, yes - ending nom don status for example , cgt exemptions - but it would surely be far less efficient tax harvest and valuing people horse stables and oil paintings , when it’s far easier to tax at source like their fuel on the Aga & Aston Martin.

The truly wealthy clearly pay far too little tax, and the middle class increasingly burdened . The bottom deciles pay so little tax in total anyways, I would raise the limit and make more personal tax exempt.

No I mean on houses. People through no skill have become wealthy by living in a house for 20 years. And it's massively distorted the economy. Or don't tax it but just change planning regulation to mean development is actively encouraged and the value declines naturally.

Sadly, the horse has bolted on the truly wealthy paying tax. Non Dom tax won't really work as the Non Doms will Dom elsewhere.

Value declines naturally ? You mean like Detroit ?

Does it matter it skill was involved in becoming wealthy ?
I’m not disagreeing with you re distortions in the economy and how there should be more built , but going after people in big houses seems extremely inefficient to me when it’s cheap to tax incomes at source. These guys are all dying off anyways and their houses being sold to fund their OAP care.

[Sandstorm]

Fuck it, asset seizure/earning seizure. Whatever. You're capped at being worth 50m, anything above that goes back into the public purse. That's still a huge amount more money than anyone needs and I'd reserve the right to bring it down further, but let's start with the worst of the hoarders first.

Go after those cnuts who made millions off shithouse PPE. Then Tory donors. Then Kevballers.
The rest will soon get the message and the public will have the appetite for blood by then. French style revolution!!

[sockwithaticket]

Fuck it, asset seizure/earning seizure. Whatever. You're capped at being worth 50m, anything above that goes back into the public purse. That's still a huge amount more money than anyone needs and I'd reserve the right to bring it down further, but let's start with the worst of the hoarders first.

Go after those cnuts who made millions off shithouse PPE. Then Tory donors. Then Kevballers.
The rest will soon get the message and the public will have the appetite for blood by then. French style revolution!!

Believe me I've entertained more than a few thoughts about dusting off guillotines...

America's highest marginal tax rate was 90% in the 50s and 60s and it was still up at 70% until Reagan came in. That was an extremely fertile economic period for them. When those at the top of the earning tree don't get to hoard wealth, it goes back into the economy and benefits real people.

[sturginho]

Another thing that Tony Blair had which Keir Starmer doesn't was John Prescott. For all his faults, you could set Prescott loose as an old school labour attack dog, and then laugh off anything off message as 'John being John'. That was quietly effective in ridiculing the Tories.

Rayner has been channelling her inner Prescott lately

[Biffer]

I stand corrected - but mostly, people don’t vote for higher taxes in manefestos . Tbh there can’t be more than a few dozen jocks who pay higher rate taxes anyways there so will make bugger all difference to how much they leech off the South east

Everyone above median wage pays more in Scotland.

[Biffer]

I stand corrected - but mostly, people don’t vote for higher taxes in manefestos . Tbh there can’t be more than a few dozen jocks who pay higher rate taxes anyways there so will make bugger all difference to how much they leech off the South east

What's needed is a wealth tax, as incomes haven't increased in a decade but wealth has. But nobody is voting for their house to be worth less. The fundamental problem in this country is wealth being tied up in housing meaning there's no incentive to invest in productive enterprise/new houses. And the second is all our public services (except health which should be a European insurance model tbh) are owned by lecherous asset strippers from abroad.

Some bits of wealth tax, yes - ending nom don status for example , cgt exemptions - but it would surely be far less efficient tax harvest and valuing people horse stables and oil paintings , when it’s far easier to tax at source like their fuel on the Aga & Aston Martin.

The truly wealthy clearly pay far too little tax, and the middle class increasingly burdened . The bottom deciles pay so little tax in total anyways, I would raise the limit and make more personal tax exempt.

Am on phone so can’t find the thing I saw before from Uk stats, but iirc the bottom 2or 3 deciles paid only 8% of the Uk income tax revenue , yet their marginal rate of all taxes was 40%+ and higher rate than those in the top deciles - those rates are surely the wrong way around !

And fuck this Income Tax / NI split nonsense. It's set up that way to be able to say that higher earners are taxed at 20% more, but that's bullshit. The true income tax rate is NI + Income tax, so 32% for lower earners, 42% for higher earners.

[Yeeb]

What's needed is a wealth tax, as incomes haven't increased in a decade but wealth has. But nobody is voting for their house to be worth less. The fundamental problem in this country is wealth being tied up in housing meaning there's no incentive to invest in productive enterprise/new houses. And the second is all our public services (except health which should be a European insurance model tbh) are owned by lecherous asset strippers from abroad.

Some bits of wealth tax, yes - ending nom don status for example , cgt exemptions - but it would surely be far less efficient tax harvest and valuing people horse stables and oil paintings , when it’s far easier to tax at source like their fuel on the Aga & Aston Martin.

The truly wealthy clearly pay far too little tax, and the middle class increasingly burdened . The bottom deciles pay so little tax in total anyways, I would raise the limit and make more personal tax exempt.

Am on phone so can’t find the thing I saw before from Uk stats, but iirc the bottom 2or 3 deciles paid only 8% of the Uk income tax revenue , yet their marginal rate of all taxes was 40%+ and higher rate than those in the top deciles - those rates are surely the wrong way around !

And fuck this Income Tax / NI split nonsense. It's set up that way to be able to say that higher earners are taxed at 20% more, but that's bullshit. The true income tax rate is NI + Income tax, so 32% for lower earners, 42% for higher earners.

Been a loooong while since I studied public finance but iirc that split was because of the fundamental aims of those 2 pools:
Income tax - for general govt expenditure (ie everything but initially wars against napoleon )
National insurance - for pensions and benefits.

Going back to my earlier rant re hypothecation , there should be FAR tax for this, pays for that explanation. Aussies have a 12% superannuation tax I think that literally pays for their state pension, nice and clear and and entitlement properly funded.