Half arsed Fra v Fiji thread

[Torquemada 1420]

- No idea why Alldritt and Danty are being risked.
- Willemse needs a huge game. Been a poor year and a bit for him.
- TF Cros is fit. Much better player than Jelonch.
- SH selection is nonsense. Le Garrec showed again today that he's a mile ahead of Serin, Couilloud and Lucu. Would even rather have seen Jauneau in there.
- Let's see if Jalibert can finish a game in one piece if he gets on.
- Jaminet will be an interesting watch since he barely played a game for ST all last season.

[laurent]

Entertaining game so far.

France is a lot more fluid than in the previous game.

Fiji quite physical but being starved of good ball.

[Torquemada 1420]

Entertaining game so far.

France is a lot more fluid than in the previous game.

Fiji quite physical but being starved of good ball.

No Ntamack at FH,..........

Jaminet plays better for Fra than ST!

[Torquemada 1420]

This showing how much Baille's injury is a disaster.

[Torquemada 1420]

Macalou does a Fijian.

[Ymx]

Did he actually ground that??

[Torquemada 1420]

FFS the Snail on.

[Torquemada 1420]

Mauvaka must have sealed his seat.

[fishfoodie]

Don't much fancy Wales chances against Fiji on todays evidence

[Torquemada 1420]

Don't much fancy Wales chances against Fiji on todays evidence

They look well short of match fitness, but if they sort that, they could cause an upset. Seems at last they have a passable FH too.

[fishfoodie]

Don't much fancy Wales chances against Fiji on todays evidence

They look well short of match fitness, but if they sort that, they could cause an upset. Seems at last they have a passable FH too.

Sorry. Are we still talking about Wales ?

[Torquemada 1420]

Don't much fancy Wales chances against Fiji on todays evidence

They look well short of match fitness, but if they sort that, they could cause an upset. Seems at last they have a passable FH too.

Sorry. Are we still talking about Wales ?

[laurent]

Good game against a team that was ready.

I think Fiji can do well if they tidy their set pieces.

I hope they do at any rate

[_Os_]

France cannot close out games. I still think it's mainly a fitness issue (they've bulked too much) and second there's a bit of headless chicken going on (which if they get lucky may not be a bad thing, but usually is indeed a bad thing).

It's now costing me money too. Decided to use this weekend as a test for any RWC gambling. Called the points margin wins for the Boks and Irish. Only needed France to win this one by between 21 and 35, to win at least £5k. France 14 points up with 20 minutes to play, Fiji fucking done, and all they added was 3 points. Maybe I'm just overrating France by about 5 to 20 points.

The drop off from France at the end of matches is very abrupt and pronounced, I'm struggling to remember anything like it from a side of this quality. Steaming along then drop the anchors and do not much.

[Torquemada 1420]

France cannot close out games. I still think it's mainly a fitness issue (they've bulked too much) and second there's a bit of headless chicken going on (which if they get lucky may not be a bad thing, but usually is indeed a bad thing).

It's now costing me money too. Decided to use this weekend as a test for any RWC gambling. Called the points margin wins for the Boks and Irish. Only needed France to win this one by between 21 and 35, to win at least £5k. France 14 points up with 20 minutes to play, Fiji fucking done, and all they added was 3 points. Maybe I'm just overrating France by about 5 to 20 points.

The drop off from France at the end of matches is very abrupt and pronounced, I'm struggling to remember anything like it from a side of this quality. Steaming along then drop the anchors and do not much.

We've done this before. I don't think it's fitness. Under Edwards and Galthie, this is by far the fittest Fre team ever. What fitness issues there might be are
- limited to Atonio
- and down to the insane length of T14 seasons
But in this age of 147 substitutes and rolling subs, I don't think fitness really matters where it matters i.e. in the fwds.

No side in the last 50 odd games has led at 1/2 time more than Fra (according to commentary last night) but they certainly haven't made that count as often. And you are right: the failing to put games to bed is massive.

For me, it's down to really poor game management. Take SA last Autumn. A decent lead and Du Toit red carded....... so the tactic then changes to hoofing the ball away.

FWIW, I've been on the money for the Fre games** but then I'd expect to know a lot more about selection than you! I had them by 13 last night because it was basically a scratch side.

** I got the Sco game wrong where I had them by 18 with a full strength team but there I badly underestimated the lack of game time plus the effects of the European heat wave.

[Torquemada 1420]

They are a shade too big for me hence the precipitous fall off. Having said that most French teams can strangle you these days through sheer size. Boring as fuck but winning ingrediants

Irish pack heavier than the Fre in every game for years. You have a La Rochelle set of tinted glasses.

As for boring: surely that title is more apt for Ire whose 1D game plan is the most effective in rugby but exhibits zero flair.

[Flockwitt]

You can see both the skill and the athleticism of the French players. When they get fired up properly for the RWC they're going to be very hard to beat.

[Torquemada 1420]

They are a shade too big for me hence the precipitous fall off. Having said that most French teams can strangle you these days through sheer size. Boring as fuck but winning ingrediants

Irish pack heavier than the Fre in every game for years. You have a La Rochelle set of tinted glasses.

As for boring: surely that title is more apt for Ire whose 1D game plan is the most effective in rugby but exhibits zero flair.

Most French teams these days are boring as fuck

Club teams, I'd agree.

[Torquemada 1420]

I think you are hanging a lot on the few times Dupont nearly gets snagged and then goes on a run. He is a great heads up rugby player just not the messiah

Actually, he's just a naughty boy.

[_Os_]

We've done this before. I don't think it's fitness. Under Edwards and Galthie, this is by far the fittest Fre team ever. What fitness issues there might be are
- limited to Atonio
- and down to the insane length of T14 seasons
But in this age of 147 substitutes and rolling subs, I don't think fitness really matters where it matters i.e. in the fwds.

No side in the last 50 odd games has led at 1/2 time more than Fra (according to commentary last night) but they certainly haven't made that count as often. And you are right: the failing to put games to bed is massive.

For me, it's down to really poor game management. Take SA last Autumn. A decent lead and Du Toit red carded....... so the tactic then changes to hoofing the ball away.

FWIW, I've been on the money for the Fre games** but then I'd expect to know a lot more about selection than you! I had them by 13 last night because it was basically a scratch side.

** I got the Sco game wrong where I had them by 18 with a full strength team but there I badly underestimated the lack of game time plus the effects of the European heat wave.

I make no apology for being stubborn ...

Yes the forwards are where it matters. The frontrows I'll not consider because every team replaces them now, so they're never playing the full 80, and it's hard to know with those body shapes what is going on just by looking. Weights can be misleading or just a lie. What I'm looking at is not if a player is fat, no player should be, but if they're carrying additional muscle they don't need to. If a player has done a lot of gym work and looks large for their frame, then they have to carry that additional muscle which is tiring. The give away is how pumped the arms are.

It's the speed of the locks and backrows which matter, they're the ones who need to be at rucks securing the ball, need to tackle opponents, and need to carry. The slower they get the more momentum drains away. One lock and one backrow having slower acceleration in the final quarter can have a disproportionate impact, especially if it's in positions that need more mobility (5 lock/openside/eightman).

[Simian]

Personally, i’m not reading anything into France not fully putting teams away (in this series anyway). They’re pulling key guys out of games and often playing the last ~twenty with really odd combos I doubt we’ll see in proper games. I think fitness isn’t going to be an issue for them.

They do have a tendency to take their foot off the pedal when they’re comfortably ahead on the scoreboards but I can’t see even the frenchest of French sides doing that in the RWC.

[Simian]

They are also one of the few teams able to genuinely blur the lines between a 6/2 and 5/3 split, which I think will show when the comp gets serious

[_Os_]

Also .. you're definitely correct Torq, you know a lot more about the French than me (obviously). I made a terrible fucking mess of that post trying to compare to past France v Fiji matches to get a read on this, so much so I edited it (unfortunately my attention is elsewhere and I'm typing when able only).

Looking at the past teams, definitely I agree France don't have the same amount of beefed up players at lock/backrow they once did, they're leaner than they were. There's still some though. Willemse and Chalureau are both large and probably cannot go for 80 minutes at 100%, they're bigger than any Springbok lock if you believe the numbers (I don't trust them, as stated), Willemse to me has always looked far too big. Cros and Alldritt I would class as more the sort of player I'm talking about but not severe examples by any means, it would be ridiculous to accuse such players of being unfit (it's the total opposite), but not so ridiculous to claim a 190cm man that's over 110kg and looks it, will tire faster. Out of the Bok backrows I would say Vermuelen is similar in terms of size, but he never goes the full 80.

Personally, i’m not reading anything into France not fully putting teams away (in this series anyway).

France v Scotland was a real match. in this match France kicked 3 points in the final 20 minutes, to make the win more secure than sitting on 14 point lead against a strong Fiji side. Some of the other matches also looked real to me.

Wales and the Wallabies should definitely be worrying about Fiji. Wales have them first up and appear to have no more warmup fixtures.

[Simian]

Personally, i’m not reading anything into France not fully putting teams away (in this series anyway).

France v Scotland was a real match. in this match France kicked 3 points in the final 20 minutes, to make the win more secure than sitting on 14 point lead against a strong Fiji side. Some of the other matches also looked real to me.

Wales and the Wallabies should definitely be worrying about Fiji. Wales have them first up and appear to have no more warmup fixtures.

I agree about Fra v Sco, but I’ll be very surprised if we see them play the last chunk of a game with such a makeshift back line once it gets to ko rugby.

And I completely agree that Fiji getting out their group, or even topping it, would be too unrealistic.

[Torquemada 1420]

It's the speed of the locks and backrows which matter, they're the ones who need to be at rucks securing the ball, need to tackle opponents, and need to carry. The slower they get the more momentum drains away. One lock and one backrow having slower acceleration in the final quarter can have a disproportionate impact, especially if it's in positions that need more mobility (5 lock/openside/eightman).

Well, Fra are fortunate here
- Alldritt and Cros (when fit) will go forever
- and they have the extraordinary luck to have Marchand, Dupont, Danty and Villiere acting as secondary turnover exponents. It means Fra don't always have to get their backrow to every breakdown.

FWIW, the real problem IMHO is Fra has 2 teams with a disconnect: fwds and backs. Despite having god at SH, they've failed to find a FH partner to reliably make that link to bring their backs into offensive play. Hence not putting teams away.

[Simian]

Personally, i’m not reading anything into France not fully putting teams away (in this series anyway).

France v Scotland was a real match. in this match France kicked 3 points in the final 20 minutes, to make the win more secure than sitting on 14 point lead against a strong Fiji side. Some of the other matches also looked real to me.

Wales and the Wallabies should definitely be worrying about Fiji. Wales have them first up and appear to have no more warmup fixtures.

I agree about Fra v Sco, but I’ll be very surprised if we see them play the last chunk of a game with such a makeshift back line once it gets to ko rugby.

And I completely agree that Fiji getting out their group, or even topping it, would [edit: oops..wouldn't] be too unrealistic.