The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Tichtheid]

Edinburgh Rugby has completed the signing of England international tighthead prop Paul Hill from Northampton Saints on a two-year deal.

Not Scottish qualified, is Luan de Bruin under contract? Edinburgh's lack of tight head prop development really is beyond a farce.

I can't think of one tighthead that has come through Edinburgh to play for us regularly let alone move up to Scotland since Geoff Cross and he left ten years ago. McCallum didn't make it, same for Dan Gamble and Dan Winning.

Mind you, Glasgow have had Zander and now, hopefully, Murphy Walker in the same time frame

[I like neeps]

Edinburgh Rugby has completed the signing of England international tighthead prop Paul Hill from Northampton Saints on a two-year deal.

Not Scottish qualified, is Luan de Bruin under contract? Edinburgh's lack of tight head prop development really is beyond a farce.

I can't think of one tighthead that has come through Edinburgh to play for us regularly let alone move up to Scotland since Geoff Cross and he left ten years ago. McCallum didn't make it, same for Dan Gamble and Dan Winning.

Mind you, Glasgow have had Zander and now, hopefully, Murphy Walker in the same time frame

Yeah and Fagerson only actually played because he's a phenom. Both pro teams can't develop front row because they won't accept the risk that comes with it.

What was great about Fagerson as Toonie allowed the odd pumping at the scrum at the beginning.

[Biffer]

Not Scottish qualified, is Luan de Bruin under contract? Edinburgh's lack of tight head prop development really is beyond a farce.

I can't think of one tighthead that has come through Edinburgh to play for us regularly let alone move up to Scotland since Geoff Cross and he left ten years ago. McCallum didn't make it, same for Dan Gamble and Dan Winning.

Mind you, Glasgow have had Zander and now, hopefully, Murphy Walker in the same time frame

Yeah and Fagerson only actually played because he's a phenom. Both pro teams can't develop front row because they won't accept the risk that comes with it.

What was great about Fagerson as Toonie allowed the odd pumping at the scrum at the beginning.

There's no decent level down to play in to develop. It's a problem for all our young (18-22ish) players, but front row in particular. Super Six was meant to help change that, but the old club men have had their way and it's gone. Fuck knows how we're going to develop anyone now.

[Big D]

Christie broke his arm at the weekend.

[Biffer]

Christie broke his arm at the weekend.

Yeah, twelve weeks they’re saying. Could be fit for the summer tour.

[Yr Alban]

So, Fergus Burke has signed for Saracens.

Here’s the question: will England try to get him capped ASAP so that we can’t make use of him?

[topofthemoon]

Match preview part 1 for Harlequins v Glasgow. These two teams:

- have never met in a competitive fixture;
- love tries / hate penalties;
- have a very Gallic route ahead of them if they want to make the final.

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/analy ... ing-sides/

[I like neeps]

I can't think of one tighthead that has come through Edinburgh to play for us regularly let alone move up to Scotland since Geoff Cross and he left ten years ago. McCallum didn't make it, same for Dan Gamble and Dan Winning.

Mind you, Glasgow have had Zander and now, hopefully, Murphy Walker in the same time frame

Yeah and Fagerson only actually played because he's a phenom. Both pro teams can't develop front row because they won't accept the risk that comes with it.

What was great about Fagerson as Toonie allowed the odd pumping at the scrum at the beginning.

There's no decent level down to play in to develop. It's a problem for all our young (18-22ish) players, but front row in particular. Super Six was meant to help change that, but the old club men have had their way and it's gone. Fuck knows how we're going to develop anyone now.

The super6 didn't help develop props as pro team coaches still didn't play them. The super6 coaches rarely actually played the young props either until the last season or two when 3 of the clubs were soft quitting.

Props will be developed by taking their lumps at pro level and coaches skill need to be told to accept that.

[Biffer]

Yeah and Fagerson only actually played because he's a phenom. Both pro teams can't develop front row because they won't accept the risk that comes with it.

What was great about Fagerson as Toonie allowed the odd pumping at the scrum at the beginning.

There's no decent level down to play in to develop. It's a problem for all our young (18-22ish) players, but front row in particular. Super Six was meant to help change that, but the old club men have had their way and it's gone. Fuck knows how we're going to develop anyone now.

The super6 didn't help develop props as pro team coaches still didn't play them. The super6 coaches rarely actually played the young props either until the last season or two when 3 of the clubs were soft quitting.

Props will be developed by taking their lumps at pro level and coaches skill need to be told to accept that.

Firstly, the Super Six didn't really get much of a chance given it only existed for a few years and was compromised by the pandemic as well. 10 games first season, second season cancelled, 10 games third season, finally had a full season then it was canned.

SHould have been set up with playing squad conditions around playing young props.

[robmatic]

Yeah and Fagerson only actually played because he's a phenom. Both pro teams can't develop front row because they won't accept the risk that comes with it.

What was great about Fagerson as Toonie allowed the odd pumping at the scrum at the beginning.

There's no decent level down to play in to develop. It's a problem for all our young (18-22ish) players, but front row in particular. Super Six was meant to help change that, but the old club men have had their way and it's gone. Fuck knows how we're going to develop anyone now.

The super6 didn't help develop props as pro team coaches still didn't play them. The super6 coaches rarely actually played the young props either until the last season or two when 3 of the clubs were soft quitting.

Props will be developed by taking their lumps at pro level and coaches skill need to be told to accept that.

Props elsewhere get developed by playing Premiership Cup, Currie/Varsity Cup, espoirs, NPC etc. I don't think there's many other countries where props are expected to go straight from U20s to holding their own in top tier pro rugby without playing any other competitive games.

It is easy to say that the pro coaches need to play young props and accept some doings in the scrum, but we all know that those coaches are getting sacked if they don't qualify for the Champions Cup so of course they are going to be conservative.

[I like neeps]

There's no decent level down to play in to develop. It's a problem for all our young (18-22ish) players, but front row in particular. Super Six was meant to help change that, but the old club men have had their way and it's gone. Fuck knows how we're going to develop anyone now.

The super6 didn't help develop props as pro team coaches still didn't play them. The super6 coaches rarely actually played the young props either until the last season or two when 3 of the clubs were soft quitting.

Props will be developed by taking their lumps at pro level and coaches skill need to be told to accept that.

Props elsewhere get developed by playing Premiership Cup, Currie/Varsity Cup, espoirs, NPC etc. I don't think there's many other countries where props are expected to go straight from U20s to holding their own in top tier pro rugby without playing any other competitive games.

It is easy to say that the pro coaches need to play young props and accept some doings in the scrum, but we all know that those coaches are getting sacked if they don't qualify for the Champions Cup so of course they are going to be conservative.

Yes it's not perfect world. But it is the world Scottish rugby lives in.

Would be great to have the South African or French pathway. But we don't, so that's that. The solution is giving coaches more leeway when results are bad as players are being blooded. But the situation of not having a viable Scottish developed professional prop who isn't Zander Fagerson or maybe Rory Sutherland is untenable. More untenable than a lean patch of domestic results, which we have with Edinburgh every few seasons.

[Yr Alban]

Re: props, Embra are struggling to make the big cup every season and that’s without developing any SQ props. Can’t see how it will make a great deal of difference if they do.

[KingBlairhorn]

Re: props, Embra are struggling to make the big cup every season and that’s without developing any SQ props. Can’t see how it will make a great deal of difference if they do.

Neither Glasgow nor Edinburgh has ever signed a world class player. It has either been the case that a player signed has become world class when playing there or much much more frequently they have been developed internally. The only way to have a squad that consistently competes at the top end of European rugby is either to increase the budget massively or do better at development. Only one of those is feasible.

Not sure that was really the question you were asking but that's my view on why they need to start getting it right (with player development generally, not just props).

[Biffer]

Kind of in relation to the ‘players born overseas’ thing, Patrick Kielty is every Irish/Scots/Welshman who moved to England for work

[Tichtheid]

Kind of in relation to the ‘players born overseas’ thing, Patrick Kielty is every Irish/Scots/Welshman who moved to England for work

Yeah that's me.

I have to say though, and it's part of the whole thing, that in my time in France had I met someone and stayed and brought up a family, it wouldn't have been the same feeling at all - I'd be fine with a couple weans in Dupont jerseys

[Yr Alban]

Kind of in relation to the ‘players born overseas’ thing, Patrick Kielty is every Irish/Scots/Welshman who moved to England for work

Yeah, I seem to have got away with it. Neither of my kids remembers living in England (not a surprise really, my eldest was 5 when we left) and neither of them has shown any desire to be Welsh (beyond residual fondness and my elder son having them as his ‘second team’). I expect having two Scottish parents helps.

[westport]

Mish extends his stay at Edinburgh

[Dogbert]

Glasgow Team for Quins, probably as strong a team as Glasgow can put out. Still about 6 players off the strongest team, this will give us some idea on where Glasgow really are

1 Nathan McBeth (35)
2 Johnny Matthews (65)
3 Zander Fagerson (140)
4 Max Williamson (11)
5 Scott Cummings (117)
6 Matt Fagerson (103)
7 Rory Darge (41)
8 Jack Dempsey (42)

9 George Horne (110)
10 Tom Jordan (41)
11 Kyle Rowe (12)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (46)
13 Stafford McDowall (73)
14 Kyle Steyn (C) (69)
15 Josh McKay (42)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (5)
17 Oli Kebble (98)
18 Lucio Sordoni (28)
19 Sintu Manjezi (20)
20 Ally Miller (27)
21 Henco Venter (13)
22 Jamie Dobie (59)
23 Duncan Weir (146)

Unavailable for selection: Jamie Bhatti (foot), Fraser Brown (knee), Sebastian Cancelliere (knee), Richie Gray (bicep), Huw Jones (hand), Jack Mann (ankle), JP du Preez (knee), Ollie Smith (knee), George Turner (foot), Sione Vailanu (knee).

[Biffer]

Glasgow Team for Quins, probably as strong a team as Glasgow can put out. Still about 6 players off the strongest team, this will give us some idea on where Glasgow really are

1 Nathan McBeth (35)
2 Johnny Matthews (65)
3 Zander Fagerson (140)
4 Max Williamson (11)
5 Scott Cummings (117)
6 Matt Fagerson (103)
7 Rory Darge (41)
8 Jack Dempsey (42)

9 George Horne (110)
10 Tom Jordan (41)
11 Kyle Rowe (12)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (46)
13 Stafford McDowall (73)
14 Kyle Steyn (C) (69)
15 Josh McKay (42)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (5)
17 Oli Kebble (98)
18 Lucio Sordoni (28)
19 Sintu Manjezi (20)
20 Ally Miller (27)
21 Henco Venter (13)
22 Jamie Dobie (59)
23 Duncan Weir (146)

Unavailable for selection: Jamie Bhatti (foot), Fraser Brown (knee), Sebastian Cancelliere (knee), Richie Gray (bicep), Huw Jones (hand), Jack Mann (ankle), JP du Preez (knee), Ollie Smith (knee), George Turner (foot), Sione Vailanu (knee).

I'm down in London tomorrow night and thought about going. But the cheapest ticket is £57. So I'll pass.

[Tichtheid]

Mish extends his stay at Edinburgh

I think he'll slide down the pecking order, Crosbie and Ritchie must be our preferred starting flankers. Having said that, depending on how recruitment for Big Bill's replacement goes I can see Crosbie taking up the number 8 shirt. I'd like to think Liam McConnell will get some game time, he looks ready for it, but they just don't get much of a chance until we are down to bare bones through injury.

Does anyone know if Jamie Campbell has played much rugby this season? He played his one game for Edinburgh two years ago and that seems to be it. Max Williamson is making a name for himself at Glasgow and he's a year younger than Campbell.

[Dogbert]

Glasgow Team for Quins, probably as strong a team as Glasgow can put out. Still about 6 players off the strongest team, this will give us some idea on where Glasgow really are

1 Nathan McBeth (35)
2 Johnny Matthews (65)
3 Zander Fagerson (140)
4 Max Williamson (11)
5 Scott Cummings (117)
6 Matt Fagerson (103)
7 Rory Darge (41)
8 Jack Dempsey (42)

9 George Horne (110)
10 Tom Jordan (41)
11 Kyle Rowe (12)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (46)
13 Stafford McDowall (73)
14 Kyle Steyn (C) (69)
15 Josh McKay (42)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (5)
17 Oli Kebble (98)
18 Lucio Sordoni (28)
19 Sintu Manjezi (20)
20 Ally Miller (27)
21 Henco Venter (13)
22 Jamie Dobie (59)
23 Duncan Weir (146)

Unavailable for selection: Jamie Bhatti (foot), Fraser Brown (knee), Sebastian Cancelliere (knee), Richie Gray (bicep), Huw Jones (hand), Jack Mann (ankle), JP du Preez (knee), Ollie Smith (knee), George Turner (foot), Sione Vailanu (knee).

I'm down in London tomorrow night and thought about going. But the cheapest ticket is £57. So I'll pass.

I have tickets in the DHL stand, makes the main stand in Scotstoun look cheap, hopefully "big money" Glasgow can step up

[topofthemoon]

Some key stats and comparisons for Edinburgh v Bayonne:

- Edinburgh's knockout fixture struggles;
- the long haul 'reward' for victory;
- rematches and familiar opponents on a hypothetical route to the final.

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/news/ ... ut-record/

[KingBlairhorn]

Mish extends his stay at Edinburgh

I think he'll slide down the pecking order, Crosbie and Ritchie must be our preferred starting flankers. Having said that, depending on how recruitment for Big Bill's replacement goes I can see Crosbie taking up the number 8 shirt. I'd like to think Liam McConnell will get some game time, he looks ready for it, but they just don't get much of a chance until we are down to bare bones through injury.

Does anyone know if Jamie Campbell has played much rugby this season? He played his one game for Edinburgh two years ago and that seems to be it. Max Williamson is making a name for himself at Glasgow and he's a year younger than Campbell.

I'm not sure about Campbell but Freddy Douglas is the other that it would be great to see get some gametime into next season. He will be 19 next year, that is the age we should be looking for players to start breaking through, not 22 or 23 as it often seems to be now.

6: Jamie Ritchie, Sam Skinner
7: Luke Crosbie, Hamish Watson, Connor Boyle, Freddy Douglas
8: Bradbury?, Ben Muncaster, Tom Dodd, Mitch Eadie

I would say the depth chart looks something like this if we are putting players in their best positions. For me there is a depth issue at blindside where Richie is the only recognised player who's best position is there. Crosbie is an excellent 6 of course, but I would rather him at 7. At 8 the strong rumours are Bradbury is returning, he would slot straight in to the best starting back row once Mata is away. Other than Watson I think all the other players can play across the back row to some extent but my preference would be for a clear depth chart at each position to make sure we get adequate gametime into younger players (i.e. if Bradbury is not available then Muncaster should come in, not Crosbie or Skinner).

[Biffer]

Mish extends his stay at Edinburgh

I think he'll slide down the pecking order, Crosbie and Ritchie must be our preferred starting flankers. Having said that, depending on how recruitment for Big Bill's replacement goes I can see Crosbie taking up the number 8 shirt. I'd like to think Liam McConnell will get some game time, he looks ready for it, but they just don't get much of a chance until we are down to bare bones through injury.

Does anyone know if Jamie Campbell has played much rugby this season? He played his one game for Edinburgh two years ago and that seems to be it. Max Williamson is making a name for himself at Glasgow and he's a year younger than Campbell.

I'm not sure about Campbell but Freddy Douglas is the other that it would be great to see get some gametime into next season. He will be 19 next year, that is the age we should be looking for players to start breaking through, not 22 or 23 as it often seems to be now.

6: Jamie Ritchie, Sam Skinner
7: Luke Crosbie, Hamish Watson, Connor Boyle, Freddy Douglas
8: Bradbury?, Ben Muncaster, Tom Dodd, Mitch Eadie

I would say the depth chart looks something like this if we are putting players in their best positions. For me there is a depth issue at blindside where Richie is the only recognised player who's best position is there. Crosbie is an excellent 6 of course, but I would rather him at 7. At 8 the strong rumours are Bradbury is returning, he would slot straight in to the best starting back row once Mata is away. Other than Watson I think all the other players can play across the back row to some extent but my preference would be for a clear depth chart at each position to make sure we get adequate gametime into younger players (i.e. if Bradbury is not available then Muncaster should come in, not Crosbie or Skinner).

I like Crosbie at 6 tbh. I've always felt that's his best position.

[topofthemoon]

Match preview part 2 for Harlequins v Glasgow:

- Harlequins in the Champions Cup = try bonanzas;
- head to heads;
- the smartest man on the pitch?

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/analy ... ing-sides/

[Tichtheid]

What are people seeing as the key distinctions between a 6 and an 8? To be perfectly honest I don't see many at all. The 8 has to control the ball at the base of the scrum and they are often the ones who gather the kickoff because they are good at carrying in traffic.

To me the core role of the 8 is to be an abrasive carrier, someone who likes to tackle hard and is another option at the lineout. Everyone on the park is supposed to be good over the ball now, everyone passes and catches and has pace to varying degrees, but the 8 is no more needing of those skills than the others in the back row

There are few 8s in the game who can offload like Big Bill, so that isn't necessarily a needed trait. If Bradbury does come back then we'll have a sizeable breakaway trio available, but if not I'm still pushing for Crosbie to fill that shirt. Everitt has started him at 8 three times this season and I really like a team with Crosbie in it, he brings an edge that not many others in either Edinburgh or Glasgow do, but he also has all those core skills to play at 8.


btw, I'm pretty sure Mitch Eadie was short term cover and is away again now.

[Tichtheid]

We're down a few props, but Sebastian isn't listed as injured, I thought our scrum improved when he came on last week.

Unavailable: Emiliano Boffelli (back), Darcy Graham (groin), Robin Hislop (knee), Harry Paterson (foot), Scott Steele (hip), Pierre Schoeman (concussion), Nathan Sweeney (groin), Boan Venter (knee), Glen Young (ankle).

[Biffer]

Mikey Jones deut at LH prop. Go well laddie!

[Biffer]

What are people seeing as the key distinctions between a 6 and an 8? To be perfectly honest I don't see many at all. The 8 has to control the ball at the base of the scrum and they are often the ones who gather the kickoff because they are good at carrying in traffic.

To me the core role of the 8 is to be an abrasive carrier, someone who likes to tackle hard and is another option at the lineout. Everyone on the park is supposed to be good over the ball now, everyone passes and catches and has pace to varying degrees, but the 8 is no more needing of those skills than the others in the back row

There are few 8s in the game who can offload like Big Bill, so that isn't necessarily a needed trait. If Bradbury does come back then we'll have a sizeable breakaway trio available, but if not I'm still pushing for Crosbie to fill that shirt. Everitt has started him at 8 three times this season and I really like a team with Crosbie in it, he brings an edge that not many others in either Edinburgh or Glasgow do, but he also has all those core skills to play at 8.


btw, I'm pretty sure Mitch Eadie was short term cover and is away again now.

Key role of a 6 is being a niggly pain in the ass shite bag. See Peter O'Mahony.

[Jock42]

Who is Jones?

Scott not trusted at 10? Doesn't seem to be getting much game time. Bench not giving many options in the backs with 2 12s there.

[Biffer]

Who is Jones?

Scott not trusted at 10? Doesn't seem to be getting much game time. Bench not giving many options in the backs with 2 12s there.

Academy prop, 21yo.

Dean covering wing presumably and Henry covering FB. We're short in the back three with Kinghorn gone, Graham and Patterson injured. Would have liked to see another academy lad in there though. Because it's just the Euro Diddy cup after all.

[Jock42]

Cheers

[KingBlairhorn]

What are people seeing as the key distinctions between a 6 and an 8? To be perfectly honest I don't see many at all. The 8 has to control the ball at the base of the scrum and they are often the ones who gather the kickoff because they are good at carrying in traffic.

To me the core role of the 8 is to be an abrasive carrier, someone who likes to tackle hard and is another option at the lineout. Everyone on the park is supposed to be good over the ball now, everyone passes and catches and has pace to varying degrees, but the 8 is no more needing of those skills than the others in the back row

There are few 8s in the game who can offload like Big Bill, so that isn't necessarily a needed trait. If Bradbury does come back then we'll have a sizeable breakaway trio available, but if not I'm still pushing for Crosbie to fill that shirt. Everitt has started him at 8 three times this season and I really like a team with Crosbie in it, he brings an edge that not many others in either Edinburgh or Glasgow do, but he also has all those core skills to play at 8.


btw, I'm pretty sure Mitch Eadie was short term cover and is away again now.

Key role of a 6 is being a niggly pain in the ass shite bag. See Peter O'Mahony.

I’d expect a 6 to clear a lot more rucks and defend in the midfield more often. I’d expect the 8 to be in the channels on occasion and also to be available to make meters both through heavy traffic but also through the opposition backs. Basically the 8 is more involved in the attack with the ball and the 6 is more involved without the ball. The 6 I’d see being more abrasive in defence slowing ball and being a niggle pain as Biff says, the 8 to be a bit more selective about their defensive/ruck involvements.

The basic point that the back row are much more generalists and much less specialists these days is definitely right though.

[Yr Alban]

Did Glasgow fuck that as badly as the text updates suggested?

[ASMO]

Did Glasgow fuck that as badly as the text updates suggested?

Yep, lost it in the first half, gave 12 penalties away, Quins had next to no pressure on them.

[weegie01]

Did Glasgow fuck that as badly as the text updates suggested?

Yep, lost it in the first half, gave 12 penalties away, Quins had next to no pressure on them.

There were some game changing decisions went Quins way, but Glasgow shot themselves in the foot by not taking the points at the end.

And that is why Franco should never be within 100 miles of the Scotland job. He is obsessive and inflexible about going for tries in these situations. Glasgow were also far too frantic at times and Quins had worked out the pull back to perfection with a runner ignoring the ball and heading straight for the receiver who got man and ball time and again. Is that a Danny Wilson insight?

[fishfoodie]

Did Glasgow fuck that as badly as the text updates suggested?

Yep, lost it in the first half, gave 12 penalties away, Quins had next to no pressure on them.

I dislocated an eyebrow when they passed up an easy 3 in the last few minutes to go for the line; amateur hour stuff.

[JM2K6]

Did Glasgow fuck that as badly as the text updates suggested?

Yep, lost it in the first half, gave 12 penalties away, Quins had next to no pressure on them.

I dislocated an eyebrow when they passed up an easy 3 in the last few minutes to go for the line; amateur hour stuff.

Three points wasn't going to change much. Quins were always going to go for a try and they won by four, which is more than three.

Glasgow looked gassed at the end which was a surprise. That final play summed it up. The difference between the teams was razor thin - Quins just held out for three big defensive sets in the second half when Glasgow hadn't quite managed the same in the first half.

[C T]

Yep, lost it in the first half, gave 12 penalties away, Quins had next to no pressure on them.

I dislocated an eyebrow when they passed up an easy 3 in the last few minutes to go for the line; amateur hour stuff.

Three points wasn't going to change much. Quins were always going to go for a try and they won by four, which is more than three.

Glasgow looked gassed at the end which was a surprise. That final play summed it up. The difference between the teams was razor thin - Quins just held out for three big defensive sets in the second half when Glasgow hadn't quite managed the same in the first half.

That seems very fair to me.

Two great teams to watch putting on a great game that was ultimately as close as the scoreline suggests.

Great atmosphere at the Stoop, was really impressive.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

I dislocated an eyebrow when they passed up an easy 3 in the last few minutes to go for the line; amateur hour stuff.

Three points wasn't going to change much. Quins were always going to go for a try and they won by four, which is more than three.

Glasgow looked gassed at the end which was a surprise. That final play summed it up. The difference between the teams was razor thin - Quins just held out for three big defensive sets in the second half when Glasgow hadn't quite managed the same in the first half.

That seems very fair to me.

Two great teams to watch putting on a great game that was ultimately as close as the scoreline suggests.

Great atmosphere at the Stoop, was really impressive.

I thought it was a great game. The Stoop was pretty much full which I wasn't sure about as Friday night games aren't ideal for everybody. A lot of travelling support and noise from the Scots which got a response from the Stoop. Also the ususal harum scarum rugby from Quins which I might put on the heart conditions thread.