Climate Change - Why don't we care?

[epwc]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68947242

"Environmental campaigners argued that the energy minister signed off the government's climate plan without evidence it could be achieved."

Evidence, who the fuck needs evidence?

[Niegs]

I did one of the first University courses in Environmental Science back in 94.

One of my lecturers was an awesome, tenured Professor of Botany and Meteorology. He was Irish but his drinking was mostly the result of nobody listening to the obvious science........

.... back in 1994.

I was going to say that our premier climate activist, David Suzuki, was probably banging that drum back then too and looked for a clip from the 90s. More interesting, I discovered that his daughter was a proto-Greta in 1992!

[Guy Smiley]

I did one of the first University courses in Environmental Science back in 94.

One of my lecturers was an awesome, tenured Professor of Botany and Meteorology. He was Irish but his drinking was mostly the result of nobody listening to the obvious science........

.... back in 1994.

When I lived i Sydney in the mid to late 80s one of the magazines I regularly read was full of articles about climate change and sustainability. I'm pretty sure the magazine was called Simply Living... it featured stuff like permaculture and early passive house designs way before any of that became anything like 'mainstream'... and of course, I was a tree hugging hippy for even looking at the thing,

[Biffer]

My work is going to be introducing carbon budgets before too long. I travel a lot (USA three times this year, Europe maybe 6-8 times) so might have an effect on me. But if that means I have to train it to London and get the eurostar, I’m fine with that tbh.

[epwc]

My work is going to be introducing carbon budgets before too long. I travel a lot (USA three times this year, Europe maybe 6-8 times) so might have an effect on me. But if that means I have to train it to London and get the eurostar, I’m fine with that tbh.

I'm travelling a lot more than I have for years (for work), I'm happy if they decide to introduce some kind of charges for frequent flying.

[Guy Smiley]

My work is going to be introducing carbon budgets before too long. I travel a lot (USA three times this year, Europe maybe 6-8 times) so might have an effect on me. But if that means I have to train it to London and get the eurostar, I’m fine with that tbh.

I was in the UK in 2012 and caught the Eurostar over to Paris for the finale of the Tour de France, my first experience of high speed rail. I thought it was excellent and I can't see that you'd lose much time over flying on that short trip, depending on where you're off to after that. I realise Brexit might have complicated border crossing since then for UK resident, as a foreign national I had to process through of course but it was a breezy, seamless experience. Great way to go.

[Biffer]

My work is going to be introducing carbon budgets before too long. I travel a lot (USA three times this year, Europe maybe 6-8 times) so might have an effect on me. But if that means I have to train it to London and get the eurostar, I’m fine with that tbh.

I was in the UK in 2012 and caught the Eurostar over to Paris for the finale of the Tour de France, my first experience of high speed rail. I thought it was excellent and I can't see that you'd lose much time over flying on that short trip, depending on where you're off to after that. I realise Brexit might have complicated border crossing since then for UK resident, as a foreign national I had to process through of course but it was a breezy, seamless experience. Great way to go.

It's great, yeah, but I've got to get down from Edinburgh first.

[Enzedder]

My work is going to be introducing carbon budgets before too long. I travel a lot (USA three times this year, Europe maybe 6-8 times) so might have an effect on me. But if that means I have to train it to London and get the eurostar, I’m fine with that tbh.

I was in the UK in 2012 and caught the Eurostar over to Paris for the finale of the Tour de France, my first experience of high speed rail. I thought it was excellent and I can't see that you'd lose much time over flying on that short trip, depending on where you're off to after that. I realise Brexit might have complicated border crossing since then for UK resident, as a foreign national I had to process through of course but it was a breezy, seamless experience. Great way to go.

It's great, yeah, but I've got to get down from Edinburgh first.

You think YOU have a problem??

[lemonhead]

Let's be having the little bits of good news.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -chemicals

Clever idea, hope they can incorporate the used oil.

[epwc]

Loads and loads of good ideas out there that will get nowhere because the political system does what the lobbyists want

[epwc]

(Sorry)

[lemonhead]

We will of course have to wait for some 2012 moment when a whole continent tips over and falls into lava.

But sooner have these in the bank lest there's ever a hint of middle ground between complete apathy and fatalism.

Besides, if there's money to be made someone's going to be interested.

[Slick]

Loads and loads of good ideas out there that will get nowhere because the political system does what the lobbyists want

I’m working at the moment on a project looking at using Scottish net zero technology in Africa, and specifically in the hydrocarbon sector. Some absolutely amazing stuff, but funding to take it forward is, as usual, the big issue

[epwc]

There’s loads that can be done to reduce demand as well as make supply cleaner, just need govt to push hard to make this our industrial strategy (I know, industrial strategy, in the UK ) there’s plenty of money to be made

[epwc]

Climate change is already costing a lot:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckrr9949epeo

Every day there are incidents like the poor girl who died in the mudslide

[dpedin]

Every 1% increase in global ave temperature increases moisture in the air by 7% which in turn has to fall somewhere! I reckon most of that fell on Edinburgh over the last 2 days! Biblical proportions of rain here with lots of flooding, road closures and general mayhem. We had our entire months worth of rain in two days and this isn't the first time this has happened this year.

Problem is in UK we have designed our entire infrastructure around historical average rainfall levels and can cope with the odd 1 in 100 year type incidents, however these incidents are now occurring every year and we are in big trouble. As the ground becomes increasingly saturated and the water table rises then we are going to see increasing disruption to how we live and work here in Scotland and elsewhere. We might not have the severe storms and flooding we see elsewhere but we will have a steady slow increase in water levels with associated problems at peak times such as flooding in low lying areas, landslides, disruption to travel, etc. I pity all those folk who live in new houses built on a flood plain.

[inactionman]

Every 1% increase in global ave temperature increases moisture in the air by 7% which in turn has to fall somewhere! I reckon most of that fell on Edinburgh over the last 2 days! Biblical proportions of rain here with lots of flooding, road closures and general mayhem. We had our entire months worth of rain in two days and this isn't the first time this has happened this year.

Problem is in UK we have designed our entire infrastructure around historical average rainfall levels and can cope with the odd 1 in 100 year type incidents, however these incidents are now occurring every year and we are in big trouble. As the ground becomes increasingly saturated and the water table rises then we are going to see increasing disruption to how we live and work here in Scotland and elsewhere. We might not have the severe storms and flooding we see elsewhere but we will have a steady slow increase in water levels with associated problems at peak times such as flooding in low lying areas, landslides, disruption to travel, etc. I pity all those folk who live in new houses built on a flood plain.

The roof on our shed has knackered and every time I've put a weekend afternoon aide to fix it it's been rained off.

I've only been in Edinburgh 6 or so years but it's previously been quite dry- bloody freezing, but not exceptionally rainy. This year is mental.

[Slick]

Every 1% increase in global ave temperature increases moisture in the air by 7% which in turn has to fall somewhere! I reckon most of that fell on Edinburgh over the last 2 days! Biblical proportions of rain here with lots of flooding, road closures and general mayhem. We had our entire months worth of rain in two days and this isn't the first time this has happened this year.

Problem is in UK we have designed our entire infrastructure around historical average rainfall levels and can cope with the odd 1 in 100 year type incidents, however these incidents are now occurring every year and we are in big trouble. As the ground becomes increasingly saturated and the water table rises then we are going to see increasing disruption to how we live and work here in Scotland and elsewhere. We might not have the severe storms and flooding we see elsewhere but we will have a steady slow increase in water levels with associated problems at peak times such as flooding in low lying areas, landslides, disruption to travel, etc. I pity all those folk who live in new houses built on a flood plain.

The roof on our shed has knackered and every time I've put a weekend afternoon aide to fix it it's been rained off.

I've only been in Edinburgh 6 or so years but it's previously been quite dry- bloody freezing, but not exceptionally rainy. This year is mental.

Yes, that's exactly how I would describe Edinburgh weather until this year.

I think I said further up the thread, but speaking to a roofer/plumber guy a few weeks ago who said that all the Edinburgh tenements don't have large enough pipes to cope with this and it's going to cost each household thousands to replace them.

[epwc]

The wet ground means that it's almost impossible for us to get trees established here now, even now the ground is squelchy beneath my feet.

[Tichtheid]

There was apiece on the radio news the other day that stated the rainfall we've experienced this winter would be expected once every 80 years (presumably it would have fallen as snow before), it's now down to once every twenty years and in fact it's going to become more frequent as global warming continues.

We never took this seriously twenty thirty years ago, "Oh well, we'll be looking forward to a Perthshire Zinfandel, laugh laugh", it's not like that, we aren't going to get a Mediterranean climate along the Moray Firth, it's going to be storms and flooding, whole areas of densely populated areas around the Thames especially are going to be uninhabitable with coastal areas and river flood plains under water

[dpedin]

There was apiece on the radio news the other day that stated the rainfall we've experienced this winter would be expected once every 80 years (presumably it would have fallen as snow before), it's now down to once every twenty years and in fact it's going to become more frequent as global warming continues.

We never took this seriously twenty thirty years ago, "Oh well, we'll be looking forward to a Perthshire Zinfandel, laugh laugh", it's not like that, we aren't going to get a Mediterranean climate along the Moray Firth, it's going to be storms and flooding, whole areas of densely populated areas around the Thames especially are going to be uninhabitable with coastal areas and river flood plains under water

Exactly and the worry is that the climate change might be accelerating as we get into an upward spiral of temperature increases.

[epwc]

So why the fuck do we care more about Palestinians and Israelis than climate change?

[Tichtheid]

There was apiece on the radio news the other day that stated the rainfall we've experienced this winter would be expected once every 80 years (presumably it would have fallen as snow before), it's now down to once every twenty years and in fact it's going to become more frequent as global warming continues.

We never took this seriously twenty thirty years ago, "Oh well, we'll be looking forward to a Perthshire Zinfandel, laugh laugh", it's not like that, we aren't going to get a Mediterranean climate along the Moray Firth, it's going to be storms and flooding, whole areas of densely populated areas around the Thames especially are going to be uninhabitable with coastal areas and river flood plains under water

Exactly and the worry is that the climate change might be accelerating as we get into an upward spiral of temperature increases.

There large numbers of new builds in the Lothians that could be at risk, of the ones I know of there are hundreds and hundreds of houses built on land that was prone to flooding under previous weather conditions, that's just the ones you pass on the train heading east from Edinburgh.

[epwc]

There large numbers of new builds in the Lothians that could be at risk, of the ones I know of there are hundreds and hundreds of houses built on land that was prone to flooding under previous weather conditions, that's just the ones you pass on the train heading east from Edinburgh.

Loads of new builds in Canvey, no history of flooding there:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-64255567

[David in Gwent]

So why the fuck do we care more about Palestinians and Israelis than climate change?

Because Jews aren't responsible for climate change?

[Tichtheid]

So why the fuck do we care more about Palestinians and Israelis than climate change?

coz Greta is a virtue-signalling brat who should have stayed in school and let the grownups speak.

I think that's how it goes.

More seriously, how do you challenge global capitalism? The majority of us want shit that we don't need and we'll happily pay half price for something that has to travel from the opposite side of the planet which has been made by prison labour than buy local from a unionised environment where a fair wage is paid for a day's work.

I make guitars as a hobby. I can buy a Gibson guitar made in Montana under safe conditions where the people in the factory are skilled trades people and they are paid a fair wage. These guitars cost anything for three thousand pounds upwards.
I can get a "Chibson" a knock-off from China that costs two hundred a fifty quid and, from a distance, looks exactly the same.

I can barely buy the wood and hardware to make one for two hundred and fifty quid. Ok this is fairly niche, but it's an example of the bigger situation.

[epwc]

So why the fuck do we care more about Palestinians and Israelis than climate change?

Because Jews aren't responsible for climate change?

Well that clears that up then, thanks so much. Nice to have someone of such towering intellect available to set things straight.

[David in Gwent]

So why the fuck do we care more about Palestinians and Israelis than climate change?

Because Jews aren't responsible for climate change?

Well that clears that up then, thanks so much. Nice to have someone of such towering intellect available to set things straight.

You don't care about Israelis.

What would you suggest we do about the Elephant in the room, China?

https://energyandcleanair.org/publicati ... k-in-2022/

[epwc]

More seriously, how do you challenge global capitalism? The majority of us want shit that we don't need and we'll happily pay half price for something that has to travel from the opposite side of the planet which has been made by prison labour than buy local from a unionised environment where a fair wage is paid for a day's work.

I make guitars as a hobby. I can buy a Gibson guitar made in Montana under safe conditions where the people in the factory are skilled trades people and they are paid a fair wage. These guitars cost anything for three thousand pounds upwards.
I can get a "Chibson" a knock-off from China that costs two hundred a fifty quid and, from a distance, looks exactly the same.

I can barely buy the wood and hardware to make one for two hundred and fifty quid. Ok this is fairly niche, but it's an example of the bigger situation.

Yeah, we're a society that knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. We've had a person working with us recently, early 50s, had a job as a broker in the City (6 figure wage, 6 figure bonuses) got made redundant and ended up here. She could not believe how much work there was to do, and the max we can pay her is £36k, cos it's a real business doing real stuff that's been affected by Brexit, climate change, the war in Gaza etc. Meanwhile a friend of my daughters (all the right connections) has just got a job in the same part of the same city firm that this lady used to work in, she says the fellas spend most of their time playing darts or perfecting their putting techniques.

My father in law is in hospital at the moment, 87 with a huge brain tumour, I was there with my daughter thursday night and he just would not get back into bed so they could change his pants, he physically attacked the 3 nurses that were trying to help him. They won't make 6 figures between them, and I haven't seen any putting machines or dartboards in Basildon Hospital...

[epwc]

What would you suggest we do about the Elephant in the room, China?

https://energyandcleanair.org/publicati ... k-in-2022/

Tax demand more, have a sensible industrial strategy that means we still actually manufacture some of the shit that we want to buy, stop the short term view on Investment returns that is decimating the LSE right now, do a sensible trade deal with the EU. I mean there's loads of things really

We've offshored pretty much every dirty industry we can and our rivers are drowning in sewage and pollution, air quality is crap in most UK cities. We're doing that without coal or much in the way of manufacturing capacity, that's an amazing achievement really.

[Sandstorm]

More seriously, how do you challenge global capitalism? The majority of us want shit that we don't need and we'll happily pay half price for something that has to travel from the opposite side of the planet which has been made by prison labour than buy local from a unionised environment where a fair wage is paid for a day's work.

I make guitars as a hobby. I can buy a Gibson guitar made in Montana under safe conditions where the people in the factory are skilled trades people and they are paid a fair wage. These guitars cost anything for three thousand pounds upwards.
I can get a "Chibson" a knock-off from China that costs two hundred a fifty quid and, from a distance, looks exactly the same.

I can barely buy the wood and hardware to make one for two hundred and fifty quid. Ok this is fairly niche, but it's an example of the bigger situation.

Yeah, we're a society that knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. We've had a person working with us recently, early 50s, had a job as a broker in the City (6 figure wage, 6 figure bonuses) got made redundant and ended up here. She could not believe how much work there was to do, and the max we can pay her is £36k, cos it's a real business doing real stuff that's been affected by Brexit, climate change, the war in Gaza etc. Meanwhile a friend of my daughters (all the right connections) has just got a job in the same part of the same city firm that this lady used to work in, she says the fellas spend most of their time playing darts or perfecting their putting techniques.

My father in law is in hospital at the moment, 87 with a huge brain tumour, I was there with my daughter thursday night and he just would not get back into bed so they could change his pants, he physically attacked the 3 nurses that were trying to help him. They won't make 6 figures between them, and I haven't seen any putting machines or dartboards in Basildon Hospital...

Most people work bloody hard every day, those City Boys are an outlier.

[epwc]

My father in law is in hospital at the moment, 87 with a huge brain tumour, I was there with my daughter thursday night and he just would not get back into bed so they could change his pants, he physically attacked the 3 nurses that were trying to help him. They won't make 6 figures between them, and I haven't seen any putting machines or dartboards in Basildon Hospital...

For the benefit of DAC and ymx, there were no white British staff on the ward (a stroke ward), fucking migrants eh?

[Sandstorm]

We're doing that without coal or much in the way of manufacturing capacity, that's an amazing achievement really.

[David in Gwent]

My father in law is in hospital at the moment, 87 with a huge brain tumour, I was there with my daughter thursday night and he just would not get back into bed so they could change his pants, he physically attacked the 3 nurses that were trying to help him. They won't make 6 figures between them, and I haven't seen any putting machines or dartboards in Basildon Hospital...

For the benefit of DAC and ymx, there were no white British staff on the ward (a stroke ward), fucking migrants eh?

Another 800 exclusively male doctors, nurses and rocket scientists arrived this week by dinghies.

I'm all for legal immigration that will benefit the UK society as a whole, those medical professionals arrived on visa or other legal means. Fair play to them. You need to understand why people have issues with illegal immigration.

[Calculon]

So why the fuck do we care more about Palestinians and Israelis than climate change?

coz Greta is a virtue-signalling brat who should have stayed in school and let the grownups speak.

I think that's how it goes.

More seriously, how do you challenge global capitalism? The majority of us want shit that we don't need and we'll happily pay half price for something that has to travel from the opposite side of the planet which has been made by prison labour than buy local from a unionised environment where a fair wage is paid for a day's work.

I make guitars as a hobby. I can buy a Gibson guitar made in Montana under safe conditions where the people in the factory are skilled trades people and they are paid a fair wage. These guitars cost anything for three thousand pounds upwards.
I can get a "Chibson" a knock-off from China that costs two hundred a fifty quid and, from a distance, looks exactly the same.

I can barely buy the wood and hardware to make one for two hundred and fifty quid. Ok this is fairly niche, but it's an example of the bigger situation.

IIRC manufacturing wagess in China are higher than in some Western European countries

[Slick]

Environmental Agency Boss too Embarrassed to answer FoI requests because its a shitshow

WTF

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... n-requests

[epwc]

IIRC manufacturing wagess in China are higher than in some Western European countries

According to one of the factories we work with they pay appx 250 usd (in the provinces)

[Tichtheid]

So why the fuck do we care more about Palestinians and Israelis than climate change?

coz Greta is a virtue-signalling brat who should have stayed in school and let the grownups speak.

I think that's how it goes.

More seriously, how do you challenge global capitalism? The majority of us want shit that we don't need and we'll happily pay half price for something that has to travel from the opposite side of the planet which has been made by prison labour than buy local from a unionised environment where a fair wage is paid for a day's work.

I make guitars as a hobby. I can buy a Gibson guitar made in Montana under safe conditions where the people in the factory are skilled trades people and they are paid a fair wage. These guitars cost anything for three thousand pounds upwards.
I can get a "Chibson" a knock-off from China that costs two hundred a fifty quid and, from a distance, looks exactly the same.

I can barely buy the wood and hardware to make one for two hundred and fifty quid. Ok this is fairly niche, but it's an example of the bigger situation.

IIRC manufacturing wagess in China are higher than in some Western European countries

There are some cases where that is true, https://reshoringinstitute.org/wp-conte ... risons.pdf

but in the example I gave £179

versus £6, 499

These aren't the same guitars made to the same standards, but there is market in the west for counterfeit products of whatever shape or form, you see guys in Oxford St in London selling "designer" handbags and perfumes etc

I've just had a look at the website of a local suppler and the wood to make those guitars would cost me £220, that's before any of the hardware which would cost around another £1000 if I wanted the real things. You just cannot produce a guitar for less than two hundred quid if you are paying top dollar for manufacturing.

Container ships to Europe from China stop off in Africa on the way back and load up with tropical hardwoods which are then used to make junk to bring back in those same ships in Europe and elsewhere.

[Sandstorm]

coz Greta is a virtue-signalling brat who should have stayed in school and let the grownups speak.

I think that's how it goes.

More seriously, how do you challenge global capitalism? The majority of us want shit that we don't need and we'll happily pay half price for something that has to travel from the opposite side of the planet which has been made by prison labour than buy local from a unionised environment where a fair wage is paid for a day's work.

I make guitars as a hobby. I can buy a Gibson guitar made in Montana under safe conditions where the people in the factory are skilled trades people and they are paid a fair wage. These guitars cost anything for three thousand pounds upwards.
I can get a "Chibson" a knock-off from China that costs two hundred a fifty quid and, from a distance, looks exactly the same.

I can barely buy the wood and hardware to make one for two hundred and fifty quid. Ok this is fairly niche, but it's an example of the bigger situation.

IIRC manufacturing wagess in China are higher than in some Western European countries

There are some cases where that is true, https://reshoringinstitute.org/wp-conte ... risons.pdf

but in the example I gave £179

versus £6, 499

These aren't the same guitars made to the same standards, but there is market in the west for counterfeit products of whatever shape or form, you see guys in Oxford St in London selling "designer" handbags and perfumes etc

I've just had a look at the website of a local suppler and the wood to make those guitars would cost me £220, that's before any of the hardware which would cost around another £1000 if I wanted the real things. You just cannot produce a guitar for less than two hundred quid if you are paying top dollar for manufacturing.

Container ships to Europe from China stop off in Africa on the way back and load up with tropical hardwoods which are then used to make junk to bring back in those same ships in Europe and elsewhere.

I think this guitar example is bit silly. $179 vs $6k - no-one looking to buy either will be even in the same galaxy, let alone marketplace.

Rather compare knockoff trainers at $25 vs $100 for the real thing. Or handbags.

[Calculon]

coz Greta is a virtue-signalling brat who should have stayed in school and let the grownups speak.

I think that's how it goes.

More seriously, how do you challenge global capitalism? The majority of us want shit that we don't need and we'll happily pay half price for something that has to travel from the opposite side of the planet which has been made by prison labour than buy local from a unionised environment where a fair wage is paid for a day's work.

I make guitars as a hobby. I can buy a Gibson guitar made in Montana under safe conditions where the people in the factory are skilled trades people and they are paid a fair wage. These guitars cost anything for three thousand pounds upwards.
I can get a "Chibson" a knock-off from China that costs two hundred a fifty quid and, from a distance, looks exactly the same.

I can barely buy the wood and hardware to make one for two hundred and fifty quid. Ok this is fairly niche, but it's an example of the bigger situation.

IIRC manufacturing wagess in China are higher than in some Western European countries

There are some cases where that is true, https://reshoringinstitute.org/wp-conte ... risons.pdf

but in the example I gave £179

versus £6, 499

These aren't the same guitars made to the same standards, but there is market in the west for

Code: Select all

counterfeit

products of whatever shape or form, you see guys in Oxford St in London selling "designer" handbags and perfumes etc

I've just had a look at the website of a local suppler and the wood to make those guitars would cost me £220, that's before any of the hardware which would cost around another £1000 if I wanted the real things. You just cannot produce a guitar for less than two hundred quid if you are paying top dollar for manufacturing.

Container ships to Europe from China stop off in Africa on the way back and load up with tropical hardwoods which are then used to make junk to bring back in those same ships in Europe and elsewhere.

Not sure they would use expensive tropical hardwoods to make junk tbh. The Chinese can make high quality (and expensive) products too you know. They can also make counterfeit products that are of identical quality but a fraction of the price of the real thing, i suspect these come from the same factories. they also make counterfeit that is much cheaper than the real prodcut, but still quite pricey, and absolute shit quality