The Official English Rugby Thread

[Paddington Bear]

Fin Smith keeps his cool, one of a number of players this weekend who showed an awful lot that we need in an England player but probably won’t get.

Northampton deserved that, a game like that did not deserve to be decided by a very questionable yellow like Mitchell’s. Great entertainment

[SaintK]

Fin Smith keeps his cool, one of a number of players this weekend who showed an awful lot that we need in an England player but probably won’t get.

Northampton deserved that, a game like that did not deserve to be decided by a very questionable yellow like Mitchell’s. Great entertainment

Terrific match
Didn’t think that Saints would do it tbh
Delighted

[Oxbow]

Very happy we won that after Lawrence put Hendy of the game then went all theatrical to earn Mitchell a questionable yellow.

[Kawazaki]

We'll get to see just how much of a selector Borthwick is.

I said before he was appointed that he's Eddie-lite. Let's hope he can prove me wrong.

England form XV

15. Daly
14. Freeman
13. Lozowski (best for the blitz)
12. Dingwall
11.
10. F. Smith
9. Mitchell
8. T. Willis
7. B. Earl
6.
5.
4. Itoje
3. AOF
2. George
1.


I've left spaces as I think these are not clear cut. AOF is bold as well.

[Kawazaki]

Very happy we won that after Lawrence put Hendy of the game then went all theatrical to earn Mitchell a questionable yellow.

Lost a lot of respect for Lawrence for that. That was Hollywood bullshit to get Mitchell off.

[SaintK]

We'll get to see just how much of a selector Borthwick is.

I said before he was appointed that he's Eddie-lite. Let's hope he can prove me wrong.

England form XV

15. Daly
14. Freeman
13. Lozowski (best for the blitz)
12. Dingwall
11.
10. F. Smith
9. Mitchell
8. T. Willis
7. B. Earl
6.
5.
4. Itoje
3. AOF
2. George
1.


I've left spaces as I think these are not clear cut. AOF is bold as well.

11. Sleightholme
5. Martin
6. Pearson or Hill
The Walrus named Mitchell F Smith Dingwall and Lozowski as his preferred selections for the England midfield and Iswieke at 6

[Paddington Bear]

Very happy we won that after Lawrence put Hendy of the game then went all theatrical to earn Mitchell a questionable yellow.

Lost a lot of respect for Lawrence for that. That was Hollywood bullshit to get Mitchell off.

It was farcical and refs need to get wiser to it. Mandatory HIA at the very least

[Rhubarb & Custard]

He’s having an absolute stormer, hell of an advert for his 6N chances

Which of course is why Borthwick will choose Ford ahead of him
Not sure why Lawrence wasn’t carded for that late hit that’s put Hendy out of the match

About the most blatant cheap shot I’ve seen for a while

Steady on, Hugh Tizard only just picked up his ban for a stonking cheap shot

[Paddington Bear]

Which of course is why Borthwick will choose Ford ahead of him
Not sure why Lawrence wasn’t carded for that late hit that’s put Hendy out of the match

About the most blatant cheap shot I’ve seen for a while

Steady on, Hugh Tizard only just picked up his ban for a stonking cheap shot

Don’t agree Tizard’s was a cheap shot, it was an exceptionally reckless piece of play but don’t believe there was any intent

[Kawazaki]

We'll get to see just how much of a selector Borthwick is.

I said before he was appointed that he's Eddie-lite. Let's hope he can prove me wrong.

England form XV

15. Daly
14. Freeman
13. Lozowski (best for the blitz)
12. Dingwall
11.
10. F. Smith
9. Mitchell
8. T. Willis
7. B. Earl
6.
5.
4. Itoje
3. AOF
2. George
1.


I've left spaces as I think these are not clear cut. AOF is bold as well.

11. Sleightholme
5. Martin
6. Pearson or Hill
The Walrus named Mitchell F Smith Dingwall and Lozowski as his preferred selections for the England midfield and Iswieke at 6

You'll get far more cohesion (THE word in rugby) if you;

A. Pick effective club combinations, and or
B. Pick players in their best position

Mitchell and Fin Smith
Willis and Earl

Dingwall and Lozowski (best 12 and 13 plus Loz is the blitz king)

Front 5 doesn't look as promising. I reckon Genge is on the decline which means he'll likely pick up another 50 caps.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

About the most blatant cheap shot I’ve seen for a while

Steady on, Hugh Tizard only just picked up his ban for a stonking cheap shot

Don’t agree Tizard’s was a cheap shot, it was an exceptionally reckless piece of play but don’t believe there was any intent

I think it was an out and out cheap shot, but just trying to clatter the player not end his career. At least I hope he wasn't trying to inflict long term damage

Luckily the game took his serious transgression seriously and give him time off over Christmas to have a few beers and really think about himself, and you can't hope for more than that

[Paddington Bear]

Steady on, Hugh Tizard only just picked up his ban for a stonking cheap shot

Don’t agree Tizard’s was a cheap shot, it was an exceptionally reckless piece of play but don’t believe there was any intent

I think it was an out and out cheap shot, but just trying to clatter the player not end his career. At least I hope he wasn't trying to inflict long term damage

Luckily the game took his serious transgression seriously and give him time off over Christmas to have a few beers and really think about himself, and you can't hope for more than that

It was exceptionally stupid, and let’s not forget cost us an opportunity to win that game (Newcastle had just conceded a penalty and a yellow card, giving Sarries a chance to drive upfield). Which is why I think it’s obvious there was no intent - there’s no way he’d have consciously cost Sarries the game on the last play. I suppose it depends a bit on your definition of cheap shot, for me it suggests intent. No disagreement that as ever the disciplinary process has been bafflingly Byzantine

[inactionman]

I only caught tiny bits of the game, but the snippets I saw showed that a 7-1 bench and Bailey at 15 aren't the greatest ideas. Thought Smith exploited the lack of experience at 15 well with some very tidy kicks through - good skills and management, he really does look a high quality player.

Missed the Lawrence shenanigans, I've got it recorded so I'll try to watch later and avoid ranting at TV. In the meantime Lawrence has virtually held his hands up:

[SaintK]

Feyi-Waboso out of 6N, underwent shoulder surgery last week
Shame as it will probably affect any chance he had of making the Lions tour

[inactionman]

Feyi-Waboso out of 6N, underwent shoulder surgery last week
Shame as it will probably affect any chance he had of making the Lions tour

Yep, a real shame, he's been going great guns.

Who gets called up in his place for 6N? Hoping whatever kept Sleightholme out of the Bath match is minor, but spaces to fill with Furbank and now Feyi-Wabaso out.

From a parochial Bath perspective I'd think Will Muir would be worth a look for England, but he popped his hamstring over the weekend. Ibitoye's also done his hammy.

[Kawazaki]

Feyi-Waboso out of 6N, underwent shoulder surgery last week
Shame as it will probably affect any chance he had of making the Lions tour

Yep, a real shame, he's been going great guns.

Who gets called up in his place for 6N? Hoping whatever kept Sleightholme out of the Bath match is minor, but spaces to fill with Furbank and now Feyi-Wabaso out.

From a parochial Bath perspective I'd think Will Muir would be worth a look for England, but he popped his hamstring over the weekend. Ibitoye's also done his hammy.

Roebuck looks quality.

[SaintK]

Feyi-Waboso out of 6N, underwent shoulder surgery last week
Shame as it will probably affect any chance he had of making the Lions tour

Yep, a real shame, he's been going great guns.

Who gets called up in his place for 6N? Hoping whatever kept Sleightholme out of the Bath match is minor, but spaces to fill with Furbank and now Feyi-Wabaso out.

From a parochial Bath perspective I'd think Will Muir would be worth a look for England, but he popped his hamstring over the weekend. Ibitoye's also done his hammy.

Roebuck looks quality.

Was in the last squad so hopefull y retained

[Oxbow]

Feyi-Waboso out of 6N, underwent shoulder surgery last week
Shame as it will probably affect any chance he had of making the Lions tour

Yep, a real shame, he's been going great guns.

Who gets called up in his place for 6N? Hoping whatever kept Sleightholme out of the Bath match is minor, but spaces to fill with Furbank and now Feyi-Wabaso out.

From a parochial Bath perspective I'd think Will Muir would be worth a look for England, but he popped his hamstring over the weekend. Ibitoye's also done his hammy.

Mention of a hamstring issue, but I've heard nothing more than that.

[sockwithaticket]

Murley's also been in squads and selected for the A side, so you assume he'd be somewhere in the reckoning.

If Furbank's still out then we're pretty much guaranteed Steward at Fullback, so the wings ought to be picked with balancing out his total lack of pace in mind.

[Kawazaki]

Elliot Daly is the best fit English 15 available. Experienced, quick, great distributor, huge boot, a genuine second receiver and bang in form.

Borthwick "But Steward is nearly as tall as me. Nearly as quick as well.".

[JM2K6]

In "media finally catching up with what us idiots have been banging on about from the start" news

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... x-nations/

[Paddington Bear]

To settle a debate - I saw Hugh Tizard in a Limerick nightclub at about 2am last night. I asked him about the red and he told me to fuck off. So there’s that

[Tichtheid]

To settle a debate - I saw Hugh Tizard in a Limerick nightclub at about 2am last night. I asked him about the red and he told me to fuck off. So there’s that

[SaintK]

In "media finally catching up with what us idiots have been banging on about from the start" news

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... x-nations/

Behind paywall but I get the gist of it from the headline!!!
Thank fuck for that.

[sockwithaticket]

To settle a debate - I saw Hugh Tizard in a Limerick nightclub at about 2am last night. I asked him about the red and he told me to fuck off. So there’s that

[sockwithaticket]

Difference in Furbank's arms after the break

[JM2K6]

Difference in Furbank's arms after the break

So from that we can gather he's left handed and found a way to entertain himself in the weeks since the injury

[dpedin]

Difference in Furbank's arms after the break

So from that we can gather he's left handed and found a way to entertain himself in the weeks since the injury

I had a serious knee issue (septic arthritis) a few years back and, after a couple of operations to clean out the infection, my left leg was 'stuck' unable to straighten or bend more than a few degrees. After a couple of months of serious physio including use of Biodex machine to mobilize my knee I got back into the gym, I used to go 3-4 times pre illness. I had significant muscle wastage and had lost over 2 stone. I went on the quad extension/leg curl machine and thought, to be safe, I should only try and move 50% of what I did pre illness. Couldn't budge it, tried 25% of weight, nothing and eventually ended up just able to move the bar without any weights on it. I was almost in tears! Biodex machine showed my bad leg generated about 15-20% of the power of my good leg.Took me months to get full power back to left leg.

Point of all the above is that I have nothing but tremendous admiration for these guys who come back from serious injury to play professional rugby, a brutal sport at the best of times. I hope Furbank makes a full recovery, I am sure he will, but hopefully not in time to be selected to play against Scotland!

[JM2K6]

Difference in Furbank's arms after the break

So from that we can gather he's left handed and found a way to entertain himself in the weeks since the injury

I had a serious knee issue (septic arthritis) a few years back and, after a couple of operations to clean out the infection, my left leg was 'stuck' unable to straighten or bend more than a few degrees. After a couple of months of serious physio including use of Biodex machine to mobilize my knee I got back into the gym, I used to go 3-4 times pre illness. I had significant muscle wastage and had lost over 2 stone. I went on the quad extension/leg curl machine and thought, to be safe, I should only try and move 50% of what I did pre illness. Couldn't budge it, tried 25% of weight, nothing and eventually ended up just able to move the bar without any weights on it. I was almost in tears! Biodex machine showed my bad leg generated about 15-20% of the power of my good leg.Took me months to get full power back to left leg.

Point of all the above is that I have nothing but tremendous admiration for these guys who come back from serious injury to play professional rugby, a brutal sport at the best of times. I hope Furbank makes a full recovery, I am sure he will, but hopefully not in time to be selected to play against Scotland!

It was a wanking joke

[Slick]

So from that we can gather he's left handed and found a way to entertain himself in the weeks since the injury

I had a serious knee issue (septic arthritis) a few years back and, after a couple of operations to clean out the infection, my left leg was 'stuck' unable to straighten or bend more than a few degrees. After a couple of months of serious physio including use of Biodex machine to mobilize my knee I got back into the gym, I used to go 3-4 times pre illness. I had significant muscle wastage and had lost over 2 stone. I went on the quad extension/leg curl machine and thought, to be safe, I should only try and move 50% of what I did pre illness. Couldn't budge it, tried 25% of weight, nothing and eventually ended up just able to move the bar without any weights on it. I was almost in tears! Biodex machine showed my bad leg generated about 15-20% of the power of my good leg.Took me months to get full power back to left leg.

Point of all the above is that I have nothing but tremendous admiration for these guys who come back from serious injury to play professional rugby, a brutal sport at the best of times. I hope Furbank makes a full recovery, I am sure he will, but hopefully not in time to be selected to play against Scotland!

It was a wanking joke

[Slick]

To settle a debate - I saw Hugh Tizard in a Limerick nightclub at about 2am last night. I asked him about the red and he told me to fuck off. So there’s that

[Oxbow]

I'll let someone else post the squad as I'm too apathetic to care these days, but it's mostly the same old shit with Itoje as Captain.

[SaintK]

As expected. No rocking the boat from scabnose though George is no longer captain.
The form hookers not selected and Spencer out of the squad. Not sure why C C-S is in there, his form has been quite poor for Quins thought Pollock might get a call up if not just for experience...............and fucking Slade!!!!!!
[url] Forwards: Fin Baxter (Harlequins), Ollie Chessum (Leicester), Alex Coles (Northampton), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale), Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins), Ben Curry (Sale), Tom Curry (Sale), Theo Dan (Saracens), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Ben Earl (Saracens), Ellis Genge (Bristol), Jamie George (Saracens), Joe Heyes (Leicester), Ted Hill (Bath), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Martin (Leicester), Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale), Bevan Rodd (Sale), Will Stuart (Bath), Tom Willis (Saracens).

Backs: Oscar Beard (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Saracens), Fraser Dingwall (Northampton), George Ford (Sale), Tommy Freeman (Northampton), Ollie Lawrence (Bath), Alex Mitchell (Northampton), Cadan Murley (Harlequins), Harry Randall (Bristol), Tom Roebuck (Sale), Henry Slade (Exeter), Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton), Fin Smith (Northampton), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Freddie Steward (Leicester), Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester). [/url]

[Hal Jordan]

Here you go, oh Lord of Apathy

36-player training squad
Forwards

Fin Baxter (Harlequins, 6 caps)

Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 23 caps)

Alex Coles (Northampton Saints, 7 caps)

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale Sharks, 44 caps)

Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins, 11 caps)

Ben Curry (Sale Sharks, 6 caps)

Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 56 caps)

Theo Dan (Saracens, 16 caps)

Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 20 caps)

Ben Earl (Saracens, 37 caps)

Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 66 caps) – vice-captain

Jamie George (Saracens, 97 caps) – vice-captain

Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 7 caps)

Ted Hill (Bath Rugby, 2 caps)

Maro Itoje (Saracens, 88 caps) – captain

George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 19 caps)

Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks, 1 cap)

Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 7 caps)

Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 45 caps)

Tom Willis (Saracens, 1 cap)

Backs

Oscar Beard (Harlequins, uncapped)

Elliot Daly (Saracens, 69 caps)

Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)

George Ford (Sale Sharks, 98 caps)

Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 15 caps)

Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 31 caps)

Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 18 caps)

Cadan Murley (Harlequins, uncapped)

Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 11 caps)

Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks, 3 caps)

Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 69 caps)

Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)

Fin Smith (Northampton Saints, 6 caps)

Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 39 caps)

Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 35 caps)

Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 16 caps)

Rehabilitation: Afolabi Fasogbon (Gloucester Rugby), Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs), George Furbank (Northampton Saints), Gabriel Ibitoye (Bristol Bears), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Luke Northmore (Harlequins), and Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby).

"I’ve selected a squad where every player brings something unique to the group," said Borthwick. “The Six Nations is always a fiercely contested and exciting tournament, and this year will be no exception.

“We’re looking forward to the squad coming together in Girona to kick off our preparations for the opening challenge against Ireland in Dublin."

On naming Maro Itoje as England Captain, Borthwick added: “With 88 England caps, Maro has been a central figure in this squad for many years, bringing a vast amount of experience both on and off the field.

“He’s a calm, influential leader, renowned his commitment to upholding high standards and his ability to motivate those around him."

[inactionman]

Forwards: Fin Baxter (Harlequins), Ollie Chessum (Leicester), Alex Coles (Northampton), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale), Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins), Ben Curry (Sale), Tom Curry (Sale), Theo Dan (Saracens), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Ben Earl (Saracens), Ellis Genge (Bristol), Jamie George (Saracens), Joe Heyes (Leicester), Ted Hill (Bath), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Martin (Leicester), Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale), Bevan Rodd (Sale), Will Stuart (Bath), Tom Willis (Saracens).

Backs: Oscar Beard (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Saracens), Fraser Dingwall (Northampton), George Ford (Sale), Tommy Freeman (Northampton), Ollie Lawrence (Bath), Alex Mitchell (Northampton), Cadan Murley (Harlequins), Harry Randall (Bristol), Tom Roebuck (Sale), Henry Slade (Exeter), Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton), Fin Smith (Northampton), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Freddie Steward (Leicester), Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester).

Mitchell for Spencer is reasonable enough, although JvP still there. There were rumblings of Ojomoh getting in, but think that needs a bit more time served. Dingwall put in a good shift as A team skipper so fair enough.

Good to see Willis and Hill, just need Borthwick to actually fecking pick them in a matchday squad.

Is Joe Heyes seen as one of our better tighthead options, or is that a Leicester thing going on? Shame about Fasogbon injury but keen to see how Opoku-Fordjour gets on

[SaintK]

Forwards: Fin Baxter (Harlequins), Ollie Chessum (Leicester), Alex Coles (Northampton), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale), Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins), Ben Curry (Sale), Tom Curry (Sale), Theo Dan (Saracens), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Ben Earl (Saracens), Ellis Genge (Bristol), Jamie George (Saracens), Joe Heyes (Leicester), Ted Hill (Bath), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Martin (Leicester), Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale), Bevan Rodd (Sale), Will Stuart (Bath), Tom Willis (Saracens).

Backs: Oscar Beard (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Saracens), Fraser Dingwall (Northampton), George Ford (Sale), Tommy Freeman (Northampton), Ollie Lawrence (Bath), Alex Mitchell (Northampton), Cadan Murley (Harlequins), Harry Randall (Bristol), Tom Roebuck (Sale), Henry Slade (Exeter), Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton), Fin Smith (Northampton), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Freddie Steward (Leicester), Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester).

Mitchell for Spencer is reasonable enough, although JvP still there. There were rumblings of Ojomoh getting in, but think that needs a bit more time served. Dingwall put in a good shift as A team skipper so fair enough.

Good to see Willis and Hill, just need Borthwick to actually fecking pick them in a matchday squad.

Is Joe Heyes seen as one of our better tighthead options, or is that a Leicester thing going on? Shame about Fasogbon injury but keen to see how Opoku-Fordjour gets on

Davidson should be in ahead of fatso Heyes (Tigers bias again!) and Opoku-Fordjour is a loose head at Sale but Borthwick selects him as tight head . Steward is the only full-back in the squad, not sure what Carpenter has done wrong.

[Kawazaki]

1. Genge
2. George
3. Stewart
4. Itoje
5. Martin
6. Hill
7. Earl
8. Willis
9. Mitchell
10. F. Smith
11. Roebuck
12. Dingwall
13. Lawrence
14. Freeman
15. Daly

16. Dan
17. Baxter
18. AOF
19. Chessum
20. Curry (either)
21. CCS
22. Randall
23. M. Smith

[inactionman]

Telegraph reporting that Phill Morrow will be in at end of the season, taking over from Aled Walters

Some noise that his role will be a bit wider, maybe too narrow a scope was one of things that led to Walters opting to leave. I'm still not sure quite what went on there.

[Ovals]

1. Genge
2. George
3. Stewart
4. Itoje
5. Martin
6. Hill
7. Earl
8. Willis
9. Mitchell
10. F. Smith
11. Roebuck
12. Dingwall
13. Lawrence
14. Freeman
15. Daly

16. Dan
17. Baxter
18. AOF
19. Chessum
20. Curry (either)
21. CCS
22. Randall
23. M. Smith

I could live with that side - albeit I'd certainly have Sleightholme ahead of Roebuck - and Daly is a step backwards. Pretty happy with either Smith at SH but I'd still favour Marcus as the better option to open up a very good Irish defence - I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Finn at FH and Marcus at 15.

[Brazil]

What's happened to Curtis Langdon? I'd rather have him there than LCD, with one eye on the future. Pleased that Maro's been made Captain, as he deserves it, and retaining George for at least one more campaign is sensible given what an evidently good leader he is.

Weird to have such representation for Sale, given we're so gash at the moment, but they're all individually class players.

There's a very decent side that can be selected from that lot, be fun to see how they fuck it up massively.