Starmergeddon: They Came And Ate Us

[Tichtheid]

His record in office has been dealt with roughly 1,000 times and would be more relevant if I was either touting him as PM or defending it

Are the cuts to police numbers and criminal justice system relevant to this discussion?

Yes, which is why I’ve said previously that the Tories bear primary responsibility for the growth in petty crime, that the Tory record in government is poor to put it mildly and Jenrick was a minister in that government.

So he bears, in part, primary responsibility for the problems he highlighted. I agree with that.

But he didn't say that, did he? That is where I have the problem with this.

I don't give him the free pass that you had given him, he's a fucking hypocrite, as well as being very dodgy, and that has nothing to do with the problem of fare dodging itself.

[Paddington Bear]

Are the cuts to police numbers and criminal justice system relevant to this discussion?

Yes, which is why I’ve said previously that the Tories bear primary responsibility for the growth in petty crime, that the Tory record in government is poor to put it mildly and Jenrick was a minister in that government.

So he bears, in part, primary responsibility for the problems he highlighted. I agree with that.

But he didn't say that, did he? That is where I have the problem with this.

I don't give him the free pass that you had given him, he's a fucking hypocrite, as well as being very dodgy, and that has nothing to do with the problem of fare dodging itself.

Broadly fair points. Not giving him a free pass, I just separate a single issue video from my voting intention and wider views.

Don’t think it’s reasonable for every Tory pronouncement to start with a recital of how awful they were in government, but I can’t see how they can credibly stand at the next election without having issued some sort of mea culpa

[Tichtheid]

Yes, which is why I’ve said previously that the Tories bear primary responsibility for the growth in petty crime, that the Tory record in government is poor to put it mildly and Jenrick was a minister in that government.

So he bears, in part, primary responsibility for the problems he highlighted. I agree with that.

But he didn't say that, did he? That is where I have the problem with this.

I don't give him the free pass that you had given him, he's a fucking hypocrite, as well as being very dodgy, and that has nothing to do with the problem of fare dodging itself.

Broadly fair points. Not giving him a free pass, I just separate a single issue video from my voting intention and wider views.

Don’t think it’s reasonable for every Tory pronouncement to start with a recital of how awful they were in government, but I can’t see how they can credibly stand at the next election without having issued some sort of mea culpa

The Tories will not "fess up" to anything, it's not the way it works, as we all know.

However there is no way the likes of Jenrick or Badenoch or any of them should be allowed to get away with pointing out real problems without being hauled over the coals as to their part in it, it's not even been a year since the last election.

[sockwithaticket]

Yes, which is why I’ve said previously that the Tories bear primary responsibility for the growth in petty crime, that the Tory record in government is poor to put it mildly and Jenrick was a minister in that government.

So he bears, in part, primary responsibility for the problems he highlighted. I agree with that.

But he didn't say that, did he? That is where I have the problem with this.

I don't give him the free pass that you had given him, he's a fucking hypocrite, as well as being very dodgy, and that has nothing to do with the problem of fare dodging itself.

Broadly fair points. Not giving him a free pass, I just separate a single issue video from my voting intention and wider views.

Don’t think it’s reasonable for every Tory pronouncement to start with a recital of how awful they were in government, but I can’t see how they can credibly stand at the next election without having issued some sort of mea culpa

Why not? They oversaw an extraordinary level of damage to the country. It's going to take years to correct it and the answer to them pointing out any problems at the moment really can be answered with "Well, you fucked it up". As disappointingly crap as Labour have been, they're still nowhere near as epically shit a they'd need to be for any Tory involved in the sleaze and incompetence of recent regimes to have a leg to stand on when offering critique.

[Biffer]

His record in office has been dealt with roughly 1,000 times and would be more relevant if I was either touting him as PM or defending it

But for some reason that long record of failure and inadequacy is over ruled by a couple of videos when it comes to you considering him to be an effective politician.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Don’t think it’s reasonable for every Tory pronouncement to start with a recital of how awful they were in government, but I can’t see how they can credibly stand at the next election without having issued some sort of mea culpa

The good news for them in this is almost no one expects them to be credible

[dpedin]

So he bears, in part, primary responsibility for the problems he highlighted. I agree with that.

But he didn't say that, did he? That is where I have the problem with this.

I don't give him the free pass that you had given him, he's a fucking hypocrite, as well as being very dodgy, and that has nothing to do with the problem of fare dodging itself.

Broadly fair points. Not giving him a free pass, I just separate a single issue video from my voting intention and wider views.

Don’t think it’s reasonable for every Tory pronouncement to start with a recital of how awful they were in government, but I can’t see how they can credibly stand at the next election without having issued some sort of mea culpa

Why not? They oversaw an extraordinary level of damage to the country. It's going to take years to correct it and the answer to them pointing out any problems at the moment really can be answered with "Well, you fucked it up". As disappointingly crap as Labour have been, they're still nowhere near as epically shit a they'd need to be for any Tory involved in the sleaze and incompetence of recent regimes to have a leg to stand on when offering critique.

This! It will take years to unravel all the crap legislation, poor global standing and economic shit they created! No Gov could sort all this out within 12 months, particularly one out of office for 14 years, and even though Lab are cocking a lot of the politics up they are quietly getting on with the basics ie NHS, education, EU relationships, housing, Trade deals, etc. None of this has an immediate impact on Joe Bloggs but eventually, as for example NHS waiting times come down or folk find it easier to get a GP appointment, then they are gambling this will begin to cut through before next election. My worry is folk take a lot of the outcomes of the investment for granted and still get wound up about 'small boats', Harry and Meghan, UKs most popular boys name being Mohammad and Wee Crybaby Tommy being chucked of a Hawksmoor restaurant!

However in the interim they will have to deal with the consequences of the Tory crap legislation and try and sort it. They will be blamed for all sorts of crap that comes from the Tory legacy. For example the Daily Mail has been trying to stoke up a culture war about private school kids being 'deprived' access to healthcare. This was actually a result of Tory legislation introduced in 2014 and the article is just plain bullshit and lies. See twitter thread for correct info.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ation.html

https://x.com/monkemma/status/1931657489272971546?s=42

[TheNatalShark]

Can't understate enough how weak the u turn on winter fuel is.

Awful, awful, awful. At every level. These boomers simply will never vote for them, why try appease them?

[sockwithaticket]

Since we were discussing Tory failings, Channel 4's report tonight on problems with the tagging system seems relevant.

Serco run it (of fucking course), having been awarded the contract in 2024 by the Tories and have been fined almost every single month for poor performance. It's basket case where criminals go for weeks without actually being monitored.And this is a system that is supposed to be the answer to sifting offenders out of prison earlier to free up space.

They were actually given the same responsibility previously and defrauded the government to the extent that the Serious Fraud Office were involved resulting in the government being paid tens of millions in compensation. Channel 4 stated tonight that they narrowly avoided criminal prosecution then.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48853870

Clearly just 5 years on from the last fine of nearly £20m being levied they warranted another go.

Like G4S, they're one of those private entities deeply ensconced in government business and they just keep being given contract after contract despite a litany of catastrophic failures in all sorts of areas.

The Labour angle here is still having to mop up and make do with shit that the Tories flung everywhere.

[Sandstorm]

The Labour angle here is still having to mop up and make do with shit that the Tories flung everywhere.

Starmer could mend a lot of fences with his supporters here by fast-tracking a couple of the CEO of these companies into prison.

[Biffer]

The Labour angle here is still having to mop up and make do with shit that the Tories flung everywhere.

Starmer could mend a lot of fences with his supporters here by fast-tracking a couple of the CEO of these companies into prison.

Not delivering on a contract isn't a criminal offence, unless there's deliberate fraud involved. But you can't chuck someone in jail for being incompetent.That's the road to authoritarianism.

[robmatic]

So he bears, in part, primary responsibility for the problems he highlighted. I agree with that.

But he didn't say that, did he? That is where I have the problem with this.

I don't give him the free pass that you had given him, he's a fucking hypocrite, as well as being very dodgy, and that has nothing to do with the problem of fare dodging itself.

Broadly fair points. Not giving him a free pass, I just separate a single issue video from my voting intention and wider views.

Don’t think it’s reasonable for every Tory pronouncement to start with a recital of how awful they were in government, but I can’t see how they can credibly stand at the next election without having issued some sort of mea culpa

The Tories will not "fess up" to anything, it's not the way it works, as we all know.

However there is no way the likes of Jenrick or Badenoch or any of them should be allowed to get away with pointing out real problems without being hauled over the coals as to their part in it, it's not even been a year since the last election.

No argument from me that the Tories are responsible for an absolute shambles of a government but then who is allowed to point out real problems in that case?

[robmatic]

The Labour angle here is still having to mop up and make do with shit that the Tories flung everywhere.

Starmer could mend a lot of fences with his supporters here by fast-tracking a couple of the CEO of these companies into prison.

Not delivering on a contract isn't a criminal offence, unless there's deliberate fraud involved. But you can't chuck someone in jail for being incompetent.That's the road to authoritarianism.

You are right, but we do have a real issue with elite-level culpability in the UK. We see it with basically every example of privatisation, the banks after the 2009 financial crisis, the Post Office/Horizon issue, etc. Lots of failures that we all have to pay for while the executives are handsomely rewarded and continue on a merry-go-round of appointments.

[Sandstorm]

The Labour angle here is still having to mop up and make do with shit that the Tories flung everywhere.

Starmer could mend a lot of fences with his supporters here by fast-tracking a couple of the CEO of these companies into prison.

Not delivering on a contract isn't a criminal offence, unless there's deliberate fraud involved. But you can't chuck someone in jail for being incompetent.That's the road to authoritarianism.

See earlier post: "They were actually given the same responsibility previously and defrauded the government to the extent that the Serious Fraud Office were involved resulting in the government being paid tens of millions in compensation"

[sockwithaticket]

Starmer could mend a lot of fences with his supporters here by fast-tracking a couple of the CEO of these companies into prison.

Not delivering on a contract isn't a criminal offence, unless there's deliberate fraud involved. But you can't chuck someone in jail for being incompetent.That's the road to authoritarianism.

You are right, but we do have a real issue with elite-level culpability in the UK. We see it with basically every example of privatisation, the banks after the 2009 financial crisis, the Post Office/Horizon issue, etc. Lots of failures that we all have to pay for while the executives are handsomely rewarded and continue on a merry-go-round of appointments.

I think it might have been Luke Tryl the pollster, but it a guest on either The News Agents or Oh God, What Now? was recently pointing out exactly this. A huge part of public antipathy or at least apathy towards, politics, politicians and 'the establishment' now is absolutely a sense of us and them that stems from lack of accountability or tangible consequence for those in positions of power. The examples they used were the covid contract fraud, Grenfell, Infected Blood, grooming gangs, water companies etc. A lot of it does, on the face of it, meet the threshold of criminality, and the rest is at least evidence of being unfit for the job yet nothing gets done. Time after time the public see high level execs or politicians free to carry on as usual, often without even a slap on the wrist.

The suggestion was that for public faith to be even somewhat restored, heads need to start rolling. What consequence has anyone at the heart of the post office scandal faced? Why do Fujitsu still have government contracts?

I would add that I think that's behind a lot of relatively low level yet pernicious behaviours ranging from fly-tipping to fare-dodging to the shop-lifting epidemic. We are not 'all in it together', the example set from the top is that society is a myth and you can do as you please.

[Sandstorm]

What Sockwithaticket said.

[Tichtheid]

Broadly fair points. Not giving him a free pass, I just separate a single issue video from my voting intention and wider views.

Don’t think it’s reasonable for every Tory pronouncement to start with a recital of how awful they were in government, but I can’t see how they can credibly stand at the next election without having issued some sort of mea culpa

The Tories will not "fess up" to anything, it's not the way it works, as we all know.

However there is no way the likes of Jenrick or Badenoch or any of them should be allowed to get away with pointing out real problems without being hauled over the coals as to their part in it, it's not even been a year since the last election.

No argument from me that the Tories are responsible for an absolute shambles of a government but then who is allowed to point out real problems in that case?

This is the thing, I don't think anyone in this exchange has pretended that fare dodging and other petty crime is fine or doesn't exist, that was never the issue. It's the lack of honesty as to how much Jenrick and others contributed to the problem and why didn't they do something like this during the 14 years they were in power?

I don't accept that political opportunism is just part of the game, it's just more corruption, albeit on a lower level than the party accepting hefty contributions and then awarding planning consent in the donor's favour, but it's still dishonourable conduct and fuck them all for doing it, of whatever stripe.

We should not have to accept this as normal behaviour, it's not accepted in most other walks of life, why should be okay for politicians to act like this?

These people have so sense of self-awareness, if one of them, just one came out and said, okay we were not effective, how about we make a new start and work together to make this country better? Here is a low-level crime that needs fixing, we should have done it, but we didn't, how can we help to fix it now?

To repeat, he, the shadow Sec of State for Justice, didn't even report the guy carrying a knife, which is potentially far more dangerous to fellow passengers than someone leaping over a barrier. I really can't give this guy a chance, he's a ring piece, I doubt he's even bothered about the fare-dodging, he certainly didn't seem particularly bothered about knife crime.


edit btw, the rail system is a problem. My nephew was fined because when he bought a ticket he clicked that he had a 26 to 30 rail card when in reality he had a young persons rail card - he chose the wrong option from a drop down menu on the Trainline app. This will have been recorded as a fare dodging offence.
Travelling from Edinburgh out to the suburbs, you have to have bought a ticket for a specific train because there are at least three different companies and every time I'm on the train I see someone who assumed they could go from A to B on a train because they had paid their fare. Again, this resulted in re-buying a takeout and an effort to dodge the fare.
The Scot Rail trains are, in terms of percentage, far more expensive than Cross Country or LNER.

[Biffer]

Not delivering on a contract isn't a criminal offence, unless there's deliberate fraud involved. But you can't chuck someone in jail for being incompetent.That's the road to authoritarianism.

You are right, but we do have a real issue with elite-level culpability in the UK. We see it with basically every example of privatisation, the banks after the 2009 financial crisis, the Post Office/Horizon issue, etc. Lots of failures that we all have to pay for while the executives are handsomely rewarded and continue on a merry-go-round of appointments.

I think it might have been Luke Tryl the pollster, but it a guest on either The News Agents or Oh God, What Now? was recently pointing out exactly this. A huge part of public antipathy or at least apathy towards, politics, politicians and 'the establishment' now is absolutely a sense of us and them that stems from lack of accountability or tangible consequence for those in positions of power. The examples they used were the covid contract fraud, Grenfell, Infected Blood, grooming gangs, water companies etc. A lot of it does, on the face of it, meet the threshold of criminality, and the rest is at least evidence of being unfit for the job yet nothing gets done. Time after time the public see high level execs or politicians free to carry on as usual, often without even a slap on the wrist.

The suggestion was that for public faith to be even somewhat restored, heads need to start rolling. What consequence has anyone at the heart of the post office scandal faced? Why do Fujitsu still have government contracts?

I would add that I think that's behind a lot of relatively low level yet pernicious behaviours ranging from fly-tipping to fare-dodging to the shop-lifting epidemic. We are not 'all in it together', the example set from the top is that society is a myth and you can do as you please.

i agree with this.

[Tichtheid]

You are right, but we do have a real issue with elite-level culpability in the UK. We see it with basically every example of privatisation, the banks after the 2009 financial crisis, the Post Office/Horizon issue, etc. Lots of failures that we all have to pay for while the executives are handsomely rewarded and continue on a merry-go-round of appointments.

I think it might have been Luke Tryl the pollster, but it a guest on either The News Agents or Oh God, What Now? was recently pointing out exactly this. A huge part of public antipathy or at least apathy towards, politics, politicians and 'the establishment' now is absolutely a sense of us and them that stems from lack of accountability or tangible consequence for those in positions of power. The examples they used were the covid contract fraud, Grenfell, Infected Blood, grooming gangs, water companies etc. A lot of it does, on the face of it, meet the threshold of criminality, and the rest is at least evidence of being unfit for the job yet nothing gets done. Time after time the public see high level execs or politicians free to carry on as usual, often without even a slap on the wrist.

The suggestion was that for public faith to be even somewhat restored, heads need to start rolling. What consequence has anyone at the heart of the post office scandal faced? Why do Fujitsu still have government contracts?

I would add that I think that's behind a lot of relatively low level yet pernicious behaviours ranging from fly-tipping to fare-dodging to the shop-lifting epidemic. We are not 'all in it together', the example set from the top is that society is a myth and you can do as you please.

i agree with this.

I missed that post.

I agree with it, too.

[Hal Jordan]

A lot of nuance to unpack, but the spending review appears to be fuck foreigners, fuck the environment, fuck the countryside and fuck transport, we're giving your money to the military and AI hopium.

[Sandstorm]

A lot of nuance to unpack, but the spending review appears to be fuck foreigners, fuck the environment, fuck the countryside and fuck transport, we're giving your money to the military and AI hopium.

Are they going to build anything except bombs and datacentres?

[Paddington Bear]

https://x.com/YouGov/status/1932737179219792173

Should not be a surprise but is not good news

[Hal Jordan]

A lot of nuance to unpack, but the spending review appears to be fuck foreigners, fuck the environment, fuck the countryside and fuck transport, we're giving your money to the military and AI hopium.

Are they going to build anything except bombs and datacentres?

Another nuclear reactor based in the highly successful Hinckley Point design.

Power to start flowing shortly before the sun becomes a red giant and engulfs the planet.

[Sandstorm]

A lot of nuance to unpack, but the spending review appears to be fuck foreigners, fuck the environment, fuck the countryside and fuck transport, we're giving your money to the military and AI hopium.

Are they going to build anything except bombs and datacentres?

Another nuclear reactor based in the highly successful Hinckley Point design.

Power to start flowing shortly before the sun becomes a red giant and engulfs the planet.

Nice, I'll be looking forward to reduced energy bills and more skin cancer.

[fishfoodie]

A lot of nuance to unpack, but the spending review appears to be fuck foreigners, fuck the environment, fuck the countryside and fuck transport, we're giving your money to the military and AI hopium.

Are they going to build anything except bombs and datacentres?

Another nuclear reactor based in the highly successful Hinckley Point design.

Power to start flowing shortly before the sun becomes a red giant and engulfs the planet.

Well hopefully they have the hang of building one by now, & they should have plenty of people who can move between projects, & contractors who know how to make stuff & hit the occasional deadline.

The alternative is the Chinese approach where you say fuck everyone & throw it up & hope it doesn't blow up, or contaminate a huge area before you're dead.

[Paddington Bear]

The nuclear power plants are desperately needed, also needed is a way of cutting through the bullshit to allow it to be operational within our lifetimes.

[sockwithaticket]

https://x.com/YouGov/status/1932737179219792173

Should not be a surprise but is not good news

Not sure what you even do with that. I'm sure a good chunk of it will be accounted for by people whom the justice system has let down and people who hold the lack of punishment for those in the upper eschelons in society as evidence of an actual two tier justice system, therefore eroding their faith in it.

Then you look at the comments beneath that tweet and realise there are also just a lot of unhinged loons who parrot conspiracy nonsense and walk around with that as their worldview. How do you convince someone who bangs on about 'Two tier Keir' and 'activist judges' to have faith in the judicial system?

[Hal Jordan]

It's X. 90% of the comments are bots or troll farms.

[Biffer]

https://x.com/YouGov/status/1932737179219792173

Should not be a surprise but is not good news

Not sure what you even do with that. I'm sure a good chunk of it will be accounted for by people whom the justice system has let down and people who hold the lack of punishment for those in the upper eschelons in society as evidence of an actual two tier justice system, therefore eroding their faith in it.

Then you look at the comments beneath that tweet and realise there are also just a lot of unhinged loons who parrot conspiracy nonsense and walk around with that as their worldview. How do you convince someone who bangs on about 'Two tier Keir' and 'activist judges' to have faith in the judicial system?

There’s also a bit of ‘what do you mean by faith’ here.

Do I believe that the British justice system is fair and unbiased? For the most part I do

Do I believe the British justice system will give me a resolution quickly? No I do not.

[Hugo]

Christ, perhaps the only thing more dishonorable than Starmers 180 on the grooming inquiry is the likes of Richard Tice trying to make it all about him.

There's just something so terribly narcissistic about taking what is a small victory for the victims (and their advocates and families) and trying to claim stolen valour by making it about you.

This is the fundamental problem of the age, these people don't serve the public, in fact they don't even make a very good fist of even pretending to. Rather they are self serving.

[Paddington Bear]

There is no issue that exposes the total failure of the British state and it’s projects quite like the grooming gangs, including just about every organ and instrument of the state and politicians of all stripes. Reform are shameless on this, we shouldn’t forget though that we are mere months on from an enquiry being called a far right dogwhistle by the same government that now sees an enquiry as exactly what is needed.

I saw it aptly described as Britain’s Chernobyl - a scandal that shows the emperor has no clothes, moral cowardice from top to bottom, and that citizens and their lives are entirely expendable.

[Sandstorm]

There is no issue that exposes the total failure of the British state and it’s projects quite like the grooming gangs, including just about every organ and instrument of the state and politicians of all stripes. Reform are shameless on this, we shouldn’t forget though that we are mere months on from an enquiry being called a far right dogwhistle by the same government that now sees an enquiry as exactly what is needed.

I saw it aptly described as Britain’s Chernobyl - a scandal that shows the emperor has no clothes, moral cowardice from top to bottom, and that citizens and their lives are entirely expendable.

Disturbing BBC interview with a woman of who - while 14 years old - who would turn up at the local police station off her head on drugs, clothes torn etc and police reports repeatedly said she was "just promiscuous and trouble"

Jesus wept.

[Paddington Bear]

There is no issue that exposes the total failure of the British state and it’s projects quite like the grooming gangs, including just about every organ and instrument of the state and politicians of all stripes. Reform are shameless on this, we shouldn’t forget though that we are mere months on from an enquiry being called a far right dogwhistle by the same government that now sees an enquiry as exactly what is needed.

I saw it aptly described as Britain’s Chernobyl - a scandal that shows the emperor has no clothes, moral cowardice from top to bottom, and that citizens and their lives are entirely expendable.

Disturbing BBC interview with a woman of who - while 14 years old - who would turn up at the local police station off her head on drugs, clothes torn etc and police reports repeatedly said she was "just promiscuous and trouble"

Jesus wept.

The role of the police is one of the worst parts - see the 13 year old girl who came into a station to report being raped, was told to go home and sober up, was raped on the way home by one of her accusers who just happened to find out she’d gone to the police, was left stumbling home, offered a lift by a man who then raped her and let his brother do so as well.

There’s reports of young girls covered in semen entering police stations and not being taken seriously.

Police officers, social workers and council officials need to go to prison, need to lose their pensions, and be drummed out of polite society

[Sandstorm]

Police officers, social workers and council officials need to go to prison, need to lose their pensions, and be drummed out of polite society

Too good for 'em. Some matches, 95 octane and a Bridgestone instead.

[Paddington Bear]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _Abuse.pdf

This is an exceptionally tough read but I would recommend it as a reminder of what we as a society looked the other way to. There’s an executive summary for the whole report and one at the start of each chapter if you want to skim it

[C69]

Police officers, social workers and council officials need to go to prison, need to lose their pensions, and be drummed out of polite society

Too good for 'em. Some matches, 95 octane and a Bridgestone instead.

This

[Hugo]

There is no issue that exposes the total failure of the British state and it’s projects quite like the grooming gangs, including just about every organ and instrument of the state and politicians of all stripes. Reform are shameless on this, we shouldn’t forget though that we are mere months on from an enquiry being called a far right dogwhistle by the same government that now sees an enquiry as exactly what is needed.

I saw it aptly described as Britain’s Chernobyl - a scandal that shows the emperor has no clothes, moral cowardice from top to bottom, and that citizens and their lives are entirely expendable.

In addition to the failures of the state/public sector system you also have to reckon with another system that facilitated these crimes.

Between the taxis and the takeaways and corner shops there was a network of legitimate and semi legitimate businesses that provided a front for this criminal activity.

This child grooming is probably part of a wider organised crime conspiracy - drug dealing, money laundering, human slavery, people trafficking, benefit fraud, political corruption and on to stuff like Islamic terrorism.

My guess is that if you put a place like Rochdale or Bradford under the microscope (every single part of it) you would find a web of criminal enterprise that would put the mafia to shame.

Essentially what you have is another countries peasantry morphing into a parasitic criminal underclass in your cities just like Sicilians did in New York City in the era of Prohibition.

[Torquemada 1420]

Reassuring:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly2r0x9xwlo

The f**king coroner raised concerns over deaths TWENTY TIMES in a decade and f**k all happened. Except the deaths of patients that is.

[sockwithaticket]

One of Labour's whips has resigned over the benefits cuts, which is reassuring.

Starmer and Reeves have badly misread the mood of the parliamentary party on this issue and restoring the winter fuel allowance to pensioners with a £35k income (which many disabled people losing PIP won't even be close to) has only made things worse. They'll probably still get it through, but the rumblings of discontent are growing and a larger rebellion than previously expected is being teased by some of the media.

[robmatic]

It's going to be really difficult for Labour to thread the needle on this. The great British public is fairly adamant on keeping every single boomer benefit while also not wanting to pay any additional taxes.