NPR

Stormers: 15 Warrick Gelant, 14 Suleiman Hartzenberg, 13 Dan du Plessis, 12 Damian Willemse, 11 Seabelo Senatla, 10 Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, 9 Stefan Ungerer, 8 Evan Roos, 7 Marcel Theunissen, 6 Paul de Villiers, 5 Ruben van Heerden, 4 Salmaan Moerat (captain), 3 Sazi Sandi, 2 André-Hugo Venter, 1 Ali Vermaak.
Replacements: 16 JJ Kotze, 17 Vernon Matongo, 18 Brok Harris, 19 JD Schickerling, 20 Louw Nel, 21 Deon Fourie, 22 Paul de Wet, 23 Ben Loader.
Number/Name/Caps

15. Piers O'Conor (15)
14. Chay Mullins (7)
13. David Hawkshaw (40)
12. Cathal Forde (48)
11. Shane Jennings (21)
10. Jack Carty (218)
9. Ben Murphy (13)
1. Peter Dooley (50)
2. Dylan Tierney-Martin (54)
3. Finlay Bealham (216)
4. Oisin Dowling (74)
5. Darragh Murray (36)
6. Cian Prendergast (83) Captain
7. Conor Oliver (93)
8. Paul Boyle (112)

16. Dave Heffernan (216)
17. Jordan Duggan (59)
18. Jack Aungier (84)
19. Josh Murphy (35)
20. Joe Joyce (34)
21. Matthew Devine (16)
22. Santiago Cordero (18)
23. Sean Jansen (22)

Date: Saturday, April 19
Venue: Cape Town Stadium, Cape Town
Kick-off: 16.00 (14.00 GMT; 15.00 IRE & UK)
Referee: Sam Grove-White (Scotland)
Assistant referees: Cwengile Jadezweni (South Africa) & Stephan Geldenhuys (South Africa)
TMO: Hollie Davidson (Scotland)

Waiting for the Sharks

Great win by the Sharks. Left it late.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 8:30 pm Great win by the Sharks. Left it late.

Was it bollocks. Edinburgh by far the better team despite being decimated by injuries. You predicted a 20-point margin.

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:21 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 8:30 pm Great win by the Sharks. Left it late.

Was it bollocks. Edinburgh by far the better team despite being decimated by injuries. You predicted a 20-point margin.

And some of the Sharks players came over as a shower of petulant picks as well. Didn't like the fact the couldn't just turn up and win, and weren't up for the weather.

In my catch up watch I've just finished the first half - the Sharks were second best by some margin in the first 40.

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:21 pm [quote=OomStruisbaai post_id=403298 time=<a href="tel:1745008200">1745008200</a> user_id=473]
Great win by the Sharks. Left it late.

Was it bollocks. Edinburgh by far the better team despite being decimated by injuries. You predicted a 20-point margin.
[/quote]

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:48 pm In my catch up watch I've just finished the first half - the Sharks were second best by some margin in the first 40.

Second 40 the same, save for the first 5 minutes and the last two. Edinburgh were robbed tonight. Not only should they have won, it shouldn’t even have been close.

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:39 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:48 pm In my catch up watch I've just finished the first half - the Sharks were second best by some margin in the first 40.

Second 40 the same, save for the first 5 minutes and the last two. Edinburgh were robbed tonight. Not only should they have won, it shouldn’t even have been close.

Brace had a decent game but he fucked up at the scrum - he was totally one-eyed in that department

He penalised Edinburgh for an early shove when there was very little in it, didn't award a dominant scrum from us, reset an early push from Sharks and awarded penalties when Sharks got a nudge on - there was an absolute howler when he said Rae was turning in when it was so obvious that it was the Sharks loosehead who did it in the first half.

We should have put the game away without that - we were the better side and blew it, that is down to us not Brace and not the Sharks.

Biffer wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:41 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:21 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 8:30 pm Great win by the Sharks. Left it late.

Was it bollocks. Edinburgh by far the better team despite being decimated by injuries. You predicted a 20-point margin.

And some of the Sharks players came over as a shower of petulant picks as well. Didn't like the fact the couldn't just turn up and win, and weren't up for the weather.

Diving on a player after the winning try was scored seems a bit sour and looking for kak.

Some of Edinburghs passing in the backline was sublime. Very impressed by that. Sharks had nothing happening in their backline. And Jayden was Uber kak. 3rd game in a row. It was fantastic to have Fassi back. Even if he does look way off the pace.
Who knows how Edinburgh threw away that game. Sharks just better BMT perhaps.

Important that all SA teams win today. Go Bulls, Lions, Stormers!

Sharks show the way.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:51 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:39 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:48 pm In my catch up watch I've just finished the first half - the Sharks were second best by some margin in the first 40.

Second 40 the same, save for the first 5 minutes and the last two. Edinburgh were robbed tonight. Not only should they have won, it shouldn’t even have been close.

Brace had a decent game but he fucked up at the scrum - he was totally one-eyed in that department

He penalised Edinburgh for an early shove when there was very little in it, didn't award a dominant scrum from us, reset an early push from Sharks and awarded penalties when Sharks got a nudge on - there was an absolute howler when he said Rae was turning in when it was so obvious that it was the Sharks loosehead who did it in the first half.

We should have put the game away without that - we were the better side and blew it, that is down to us not Brace and not the Sharks.

He really didn’t have a decent game at all. You’ve described the entirely one-sided refereeing of the scrum. He also yellow carded Skinner for no reason, and allowed the Sharks backline to play about half a mile offside for the whole game. He was absolutely shocking.

Obviously he also disallowed not one but two Edinburgh tries. I’m reserving judgement on those because I haven’t seen the TV footage.

Yr Alban wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 7:05 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:51 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:39 pm

Second 40 the same, save for the first 5 minutes and the last two. Edinburgh were robbed tonight. Not only should they have won, it shouldn’t even have been close.

Brace had a decent game but he fucked up at the scrum - he was totally one-eyed in that department

He penalised Edinburgh for an early shove when there was very little in it, didn't award a dominant scrum from us, reset an early push from Sharks and awarded penalties when Sharks got a nudge on - there was an absolute howler when he said Rae was turning in when it was so obvious that it was the Sharks loosehead who did it in the first half.

We should have put the game away without that - we were the better side and blew it, that is down to us not Brace and not the Sharks.

He really didn’t have a decent game at all. You’ve described the entirely one-sided refereeing of the scrum. He also yellow carded Skinner for no reason, and allowed the Sharks backline to play about half a mile offside for the whole game. He was absolutely shocking.

Obviously he also disallowed not one but two Edinburgh tries. I’m reserving judgement on those because I haven’t seen the TV footage.

The two tries were held up. They were really excellent defensive efforts, to be fair, especially the Esterhuizen tackle.

Yr Alban wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 7:05 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:51 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:39 pm

Second 40 the same, save for the first 5 minutes and the last two. Edinburgh were robbed tonight. Not only should they have won, it shouldn’t even have been close.

Brace had a decent game but he fucked up at the scrum - he was totally one-eyed in that department

He penalised Edinburgh for an early shove when there was very little in it, didn't award a dominant scrum from us, reset an early push from Sharks and awarded penalties when Sharks got a nudge on - there was an absolute howler when he said Rae was turning in when it was so obvious that it was the Sharks loosehead who did it in the first half.

We should have put the game away without that - we were the better side and blew it, that is down to us not Brace and not the Sharks.

He really didn’t have a decent game at all. You’ve described the entirely one-sided refereeing of the scrum. He also yellow carded Skinner for no reason, and allowed the Sharks backline to play about half a mile offside for the whole game. He was absolutely shocking.

Obviously he also disallowed not one but two Edinburgh tries. I’m reserving judgement on those because I haven’t seen the TV footage.

Jack Brown was held up over the line - the one from a cross kick from Thompson, it was pretty clear on tv. I’m not sure I can think of another incident without being reminded.

The points is all that matters in the end but we were without van der Merwe, Boffelli, Goosen, Graham, Vellacott, Sebastian, Hill, Sykes, Crosbie and Watson, all of whom are nailed on for the 23 and Bennett, Boyle, Hodgson, Dodd and Scott who would be pushing for a spot.

Skinner did very little to earn the yellow, it was all Etzebeth but Ritchie was fortunate to not get carded earlier for off the ball stuff. It looked like the Sharks expected to blow Edinburgh away because they were stacked full of Springboks and lost their tempers when Edinburgh refused to let them parade around.

I’m still seething about the officiating of the scrum, I’m going to watch my local club play in a seven tournament this afternoon to get over it.

Welcome back Eben.


https://x.com/SSRugby/status/1913323249 ... Yyebw&s=19

Bennet on look way to strong for the Lions. Lions made way to many mistakes. Hope they can turn it around.

Lions should be happy with Marius Louw and Edwill vd Merwe going.

Stormers forgot to tackle.

Munster v Bulls looks like its going to be a niggly match

Bulls take it in the end. That uncontested scruum tactic by Munster is a shame for rugby.

That was a bloody awful game of rugby!

Leinster Ulster now to hopefully deliver some entertainment

Zebre up against Glasgow 8-0

Could become Zebre's latest scalp

3 nil

Congrats to the Bulls, doing the Irish grand slam. This probably don't happen often in PRO14/URC

Deon Fourie probably played his last game last night. Big loss for Springboks and Stormers rugby. Paul de Villiers had a good game last night. Need to step up now.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 8:16 am

Yr Alban wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 7:05 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:51 pm


Brace had a decent game but he fucked up at the scrum - he was totally one-eyed in that department

He penalised Edinburgh for an early shove when there was very little in it, didn't award a dominant scrum from us, reset an early push from Sharks and awarded penalties when Sharks got a nudge on - there was an absolute howler when he said Rae was turning in when it was so obvious that it was the Sharks loosehead who did it in the first half.

We should have put the game away without that - we were the better side and blew it, that is down to us not Brace and not the Sharks.

He really didn’t have a decent game at all. You’ve described the entirely one-sided refereeing of the scrum. He also yellow carded Skinner for no reason, and allowed the Sharks backline to play about half a mile offside for the whole game. He was absolutely shocking.

Obviously he also disallowed not one but two Edinburgh tries. I’m reserving judgement on those because I haven’t seen the TV footage.

Jack Brown was held up over the line - the one from a cross kick from Thompson, it was pretty clear on tv. I’m not sure I can think of another incident without being reminded.

The points is all that matters in the end but we were without van der Merwe, Boffelli, Goosen, Graham, Vellacott, Sebastian, Hill, Sykes, Crosbie and Watson, all of whom are nailed on for the 23 and Bennett, Boyle, Hodgson, Dodd and Scott who would be pushing for a spot.

Skinner did very little to earn the yellow, it was all Etzebeth but Ritchie was fortunate to not get carded earlier for off the ball stuff. It looked like the Sharks expected to blow Edinburgh away because they were stacked full of Springboks and lost their tempers when Edinburgh refused to let them parade around.

I’m still seething about the officiating of the scrum, I’m going to watch my local club play in a seven tournament this afternoon to get over it.

It was the constant offside that was driving me mad. The Sharks were so far off, Edinburgh weren’t just getting man and ball together, if anything the defender was arriving first.

Yr Alban wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 9:10 am

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 8:16 am

Yr Alban wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 7:05 am

He really didn’t have a decent game at all. You’ve described the entirely one-sided refereeing of the scrum. He also yellow carded Skinner for no reason, and allowed the Sharks backline to play about half a mile offside for the whole game. He was absolutely shocking.

Obviously he also disallowed not one but two Edinburgh tries. I’m reserving judgement on those because I haven’t seen the TV footage.

Jack Brown was held up over the line - the one from a cross kick from Thompson, it was pretty clear on tv. I’m not sure I can think of another incident without being reminded.

The points is all that matters in the end but we were without van der Merwe, Boffelli, Goosen, Graham, Vellacott, Sebastian, Hill, Sykes, Crosbie and Watson, all of whom are nailed on for the 23 and Bennett, Boyle, Hodgson, Dodd and Scott who would be pushing for a spot.

Skinner did very little to earn the yellow, it was all Etzebeth but Ritchie was fortunate to not get carded earlier for off the ball stuff. It looked like the Sharks expected to blow Edinburgh away because they were stacked full of Springboks and lost their tempers when Edinburgh refused to let them parade around.

I’m still seething about the officiating of the scrum, I’m going to watch my local club play in a seven tournament this afternoon to get over it.

It was the constant offside that was driving me mad. The Sharks were so far off, Edinburgh weren’t just getting man and ball together, if anything the defender was arriving first.

Rush defense they call it. Embra also use it.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:17 pm Bulls take it in the end. That uncontested scruum tactic by Munster is a shame for rugby.

I know you're dense but when both TH props are injured and one of them is a HIA, you have fulfilled your obligation. Munster should not have had to drop to 14.

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 11:00 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:17 pm Bulls take it in the end. That uncontested scruum tactic by Munster is a shame for rugby.

I know you're dense but when both TH props are injured and one of them is a HIA, you have fulfilled your obligation. Munster should not have had to drop to 14.

TBF, I was under the impression that only if the second injury was a HIA would that be the case. It's a confusing protocol and not all that often referenced, so mistakes happen - look at the our AB series!

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 11:00 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:17 pm Bulls take it in the end. That uncontested scruum tactic by Munster is a shame for rugby.

I know you're dense but when both TH props are injured and one of them is a HIA, you have fulfilled your obligation. Munster should not have had to drop to 14.

Why was Mark Donnelly not able to come on at tighthead? Played there for Ireland u20s and u18s and also listed as replacement TH / 18 for Munster against Northampton last season (although he ended up as an unused sub in that game).

topofthemoon wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 12:34 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 11:00 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:17 pm Bulls take it in the end. That uncontested scruum tactic by Munster is a shame for rugby.

I know you're dense but when both TH props are injured and one of them is a HIA, you have fulfilled your obligation. Munster should not have had to drop to 14.

Why was Mark Donnelly not able to come on at tighthead? Played there for Ireland u20s and u18s and also listed as replacement TH / 18 for Munster against Northampton last season (although he ended up as an unused sub in that game).

Because he was the listed lhp replacement.
He's a break glass in case of emergency sub for thp.

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 1:12 pm

topofthemoon wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 12:34 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 11:00 am

I know you're dense but when both TH props are injured and one of them is a HIA, you have fulfilled your obligation. Munster should not have had to drop to 14.

Why was Mark Donnelly not able to come on at tighthead? Played there for Ireland u20s and u18s and also listed as replacement TH / 18 for Munster against Northampton last season (although he ended up as an unused sub in that game).

Because he was the listed lhp replacement.
He's a break glass in case of emergency sub for thp.

You sound like the dense one here. If that injuries was on the LH side against Wilco Louw I would worried. Obvious Munster planned the tactic to take away the Bulls best weapon, scrums it is.

3 rounds to go
(info from Doc from PR)
games left to play, the run-ins are:

Leinster (67): Scarlets (A), Zebre (H), Glasgow (H)
Glasgow (58): Bulls (H), Benetton (A), Leinster (A)
Bulls (54): Glasgow (A), Cardiff (H), Dragons (H)
Sharks (49): Ulster (A), Ospreys (H), Scarlets (H)
Benetton (41): Stormers (A), Glasgow (H), Munster (A)
Cardiff (41): Munster (H), Bulls (A), Stormers (A)
Munster (40): Cardiff (A), Ulster (H), Benetton (H)
Stormers (40): Benetton (H), Dragons (H), Cardiff (H)

Scarlets (38) Leinster (H), Lions (A), Sharks (A)
Ulster (37): Sharks (H), Munster (A), Edinburgh (A)
Edinburgh (37): Zebre (A), Connacht (A), Ulster (H)
Connacht (35): Lions (A), Edinburgh (H), Zebre (A)
Ospreys (33): Dragons (H), Sharks (A), Lions (A)
Lions (31): Connacht (H), Scarlets (H), Ospreys (H)
Zebre(27): Edinburgh (H), Leinster (A), Connacht (H)
Dragons(9): Ospreys (A), Stormers (A), Bulls (A)

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 1:12 pm

topofthemoon wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 12:34 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 11:00 am

I know you're dense but when both TH props are injured and one of them is a HIA, you have fulfilled your obligation. Munster should not have had to drop to 14.

Why was Mark Donnelly not able to come on at tighthead? Played there for Ireland u20s and u18s and also listed as replacement TH / 18 for Munster against Northampton last season (although he ended up as an unused sub in that game).

Because he was the listed lhp replacement.
He's a break glass in case of emergency sub for thp.

Would 2 THs going down injured, uncontested scrums and being forced down to 14 not constitute a break glass situation? Or have Munster opted not to mark him as suitably trained and experienced for the TH role on the original team sheets?

topofthemoon wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 3:36 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 1:12 pm

topofthemoon wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 12:34 pm
Why was Mark Donnelly not able to come on at tighthead? Played there for Ireland u20s and u18s and also listed as replacement TH / 18 for Munster against Northampton last season (although he ended up as an unused sub in that game).

Because he was the listed lhp replacement.
He's a break glass in case of emergency sub for thp.

Would 2 THs going down injured, uncontested scrums and being forced down to 14 not constitute a break glass situation? Or have Munster opted not to mark him as suitably trained and experienced for the TH role on the original team sheets?

Why would a team be obliged to field 3 players capable of playing THP?

Why would the rules re replacement of front row players be overruled because a player who is listed in a different position happened to play there before adult rugby?

TH prop is the most important rugby position. Munster should know this.

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 4:14 pm

topofthemoon wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 3:36 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 1:12 pm

Because he was the listed lhp replacement.
He's a break glass in case of emergency sub for thp.

Would 2 THs going down injured, uncontested scrums and being forced down to 14 not constitute a break glass situation? Or have Munster opted not to mark him as suitably trained and experienced for the TH role on the original team sheets?

Why would a team be obliged to field 3 players capable of playing THP?

Why would the rules re replacement of front row players be overruled because a player who is listed in a different position happened to play there before adult rugby?

No obligation at all - the laws only require teams to be able to replace each of LH, TH and hooker at the first time of asking.

However teams often max out the team sheet for any possible position their front row players can cover eg Cian Healy being marked as suitably trained and experienced to play hooker, even at international level.

This reduces their risk of being forced to play a man down if they cause uncontested scrums.

Just wondering if Donnelly has been marked STE at TH for the Northampton game to ensure they could fill the bench but only marked as STE at LH for the Bulls game?

There is an easy to read checklist on what happens to a team that causes uncontested scrums, if HIA is either the the first or second injury then the team doesn't lose players, same as if foul play caused the injury or if there was a blood injury - that all seems fair to me

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/guidelines/16

Replay or the Saffas forfeit?