NPR

I for one, look forward to our MPs finally doing some proper work 9-9-6

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:55 am As Bojo the Clown goes off to lick his wounds and make his plans to regain power, it's probably worth collating some key moments from his stewardship of the office. When he tells you a year from now how he got the big calls right, try not to laugh

An apt legacy for an absolute cunt of a Prime Minister and human being

I suspect both are fake. Noticeably there's no link to either. Can't see the first one on the Guardian website (it's their font). Second one isn't on the Cabinet Office recently released documents:
https://www.gov.uk/search/all?organisat ... net-office

Insane_Homer wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:28 am

I for one, look forward to our MPs finally doing some proper work 9-9-6

Mahoney wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:11 am I suspect both are fake. Noticeably there's no link to either. Can't see the first one on the Guardian website (it's their font). Second one isn't on the Cabinet Office recently released documents:
https://www.gov.uk/search/all?organisat ... net-office

Insane_Homer wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:28 am

I for one, look forward to our MPs finally doing some proper work 9-9-6

I suspect that it's probably safe to assume that all IH's twitter links are fake

Lobby wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:22 am

Mahoney wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:11 am I suspect both are fake. Noticeably there's no link to either. Can't see the first one on the Guardian website (it's their font). Second one isn't on the Cabinet Office recently released documents:
https://www.gov.uk/search/all?organisat ... net-office

Insane_Homer wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:28 am

I for one, look forward to our MPs finally doing some proper work 9-9-6

I suspect that it's probably safe to assume that all IH's twitter links are fake

it is 100% fake.

indeed both appear to be fake bs. reported and blocked.

Lobby wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:22 am I suspect that it's probably safe to assume that all IH's twitter links are fake

"We'll just quietly tout this while everyone's distracted". Guess not everyone has to worry about cost of living increases

Kwasi Kwarteng considers scrapping bankers’ bonus cap to boost City

The proposal "sends a rather confused signal when people are being squeezed in terms of the cost of living, and the government is trying to encourage pay restraint in the public sector", Andrew Sentance, a former member of the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee, told the BBC.

"To appear to allow bankers to have bigger bonuses at the same time, doesn't look very well timed. There may be some longer term arguments for pursing this policy but I think the timing would be very bad if they did it now."

Rachel Winter, from Killick & Co, told the BBC: "It's an absolutely terrible time for this headline when you've got inflation [at] a 40-year high, you've got so many people struggling with the cost of living, do we really want to be reading headlines about banker bonuses?

"Arguably the banks do pay a lot of tax, so I think the chancellor is looking at ways to boost the UK economy to get more banks to come to London, to stay in London and pay more tax."

How can we expect those multi millionaires to be able to afford their electricity bills if they don't get a few more million each year? You telling me that having a few extra million quid wouldn't help you with your bills? No? Then don't ask them to give it up...

tabascoboy wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:40 am "We'll just quietly tout this while everyone's distracted". Guess not everyone has to worry about cost of living increases

Kwasi Kwarteng considers scrapping bankers’ bonus cap to boost City

The proposal "sends a rather confused signal when people are being squeezed in terms of the cost of living, and the government is trying to encourage pay restraint in the public sector", Andrew Sentance, a former member of the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee, told the BBC.

"To appear to allow bankers to have bigger bonuses at the same time, doesn't look very well timed. There may be some longer term arguments for pursing this policy but I think the timing would be very bad if they did it now."

Rachel Winter, from Killick & Co, told the BBC: "It's an absolutely terrible time for this headline when you've got inflation [at] a 40-year high, you've got so many people struggling with the cost of living, do we really want to be reading headlines about banker bonuses?

"Arguably the banks do pay a lot of tax, so I think the chancellor is looking at ways to boost the UK economy to get more banks to come to London, to stay in London and pay more tax."

Great optics when a huge percentage of the population are really struggling. Still it's unlikely to reach the Tory newspapers with all the wall to wall funeral coverage

Coffey getting her priorities in place for the NHS.

Thérèse Coffey, the new health secretary and deputy prime minister, has angered some NHS staff “by telling them to ‘be positive’ and avoid using policy wonk ‘jargon’ as they grapple with job cuts and the deepening cost of living crisis”, the Financial Times reports. Coffey issued her instructions in an email setting out her communication preferences. It even mentioned her dislike of the Oxford comma.

SaintK wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:23 am Coffey getting her priorities in place for the NHS.

Thérèse Coffey, the new health secretary and deputy prime minister, has angered some NHS staff “by telling them to ‘be positive’ and avoid using policy wonk ‘jargon’ as they grapple with job cuts and the deepening cost of living crisis”, the Financial Times reports. Coffey issued her instructions in an email setting out her communication preferences. It even mentioned her dislike of the Oxford comma.

I’m just waiting for something to come down from in high from my new boss, the minister for Victorian England

I doubt many health workers even know who Coffey is tbh, let alone be offended by her.

SaintK wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:23 am Coffey getting her priorities in place for the NHS.

Thérèse Coffey, the new health secretary and deputy prime minister, has angered some NHS staff “by telling them to ‘be positive’ and avoid using policy wonk ‘jargon’ as they grapple with job cuts and the deepening cost of living crisis”, the Financial Times reports. Coffey issued her instructions in an email setting out her communication preferences. It even mentioned her dislike of the Oxford comma.

She needs to worry about her like of pies before her dislike of the Oxford comma.

Oh dear.

It’s one law for King Charles the billionaire and another for his struggling subjects

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... 1663222058

I like neeps wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:49 pm

Oh dear.

My uncle always used to joke that the UK was a 3rd world country when he visited from France. At this rate, it will become reality.

Joining the EU helped to rid us of the sick man of Europe tag. No reason that can’t come back.

ASMO wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:17 pm

Brain the size of a walnut ... check

Soon to become extinct .... double check !

It's just struck me that I've no idea what the PM's husband looks like or what his name is. That's assuming she is married of course, I haven't checked. Whereas every other PM's spouse has been at least a semi-public figure for as long as I remember. He's entitled to his privacy of course, I just thought it was unusual.

GogLais wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:06 pm It's just struck me that I've no idea what the PM's husband looks like or what his name is. That's assuming she is married of course, I haven't checked. Whereas every other PM's spouse has been at least a semi-public figure for as long as I remember. He's entitled to his privacy of course, I just thought it was unusual.

Not really private, she had an affair previously apologised for her 18 month affair and he was decimated and embarrassed by his cuckholding.

C69 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:11 pm

GogLais wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:06 pm It's just struck me that I've no idea what the PM's husband looks like or what his name is. That's assuming she is married of course, I haven't checked. Whereas every other PM's spouse has been at least a semi-public figure for as long as I remember. He's entitled to his privacy of course, I just thought it was unusual.

Not really private, she had an affair previously apologised for her 18 month affair and he was decimated and embarrassed by his cuckholding.

Had to Google, I knew nothing about it.

C69 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:11 pm

GogLais wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:06 pm It's just struck me that I've no idea what the PM's husband looks like or what his name is. That's assuming she is married of course, I haven't checked. Whereas every other PM's spouse has been at least a semi-public figure for as long as I remember. He's entitled to his privacy of course, I just thought it was unusual.

Not really private, she had an affair previously apologised for her 18 month affair and he was decimated and embarrassed by his cuckholding.

According to the leaked whip scandal list, she was shagging junior researchers and Kwasi Kwarteng.

Biffer wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:27 pm

C69 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:11 pm

GogLais wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:06 pm It's just struck me that I've no idea what the PM's husband looks like or what his name is. That's assuming she is married of course, I haven't checked. Whereas every other PM's spouse has been at least a semi-public figure for as long as I remember. He's entitled to his privacy of course, I just thought it was unusual.

Not really private, she had an affair previously apologised for her 18 month affair and he was decimated and embarrassed by his cuckholding.

According to the leaked whip scandal list, she was shagging junior researchers and Kwasi Kwarteng.

.....................with the former MP Mark Field. Sounds as if she's a serial shagger. Now where have heard that before?

SaintK wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:03 am

Biffer wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:27 pm

C69 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:11 pm

Not really private, she had an affair previously apologised for her 18 month affair and he was decimated and embarrassed by his cuckholding.

According to the leaked whip scandal list, she was shagging junior researchers and Kwasi Kwarteng.

.....................with the former MP Mark Field. Sounds as if she's a serial shagger. Now where have heard that before?

Well at least the Tories are practising gender equality.

SaintK wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:03 am

Biffer wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:27 pm

C69 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:11 pm

Not really private, she had an affair previously apologised for her 18 month affair and he was decimated and embarrassed by his cuckholding.

According to the leaked whip scandal list, she was shagging junior researchers and Kwasi Kwarteng.

.....................with the former MP Mark Field. Sounds as if she's a serial shagger. Now where have heard that before?

Well, according to her, her 18-month affair with Mark Field made her marriage 'stronger'. Her husband refused to comment, so he may not have taken quite the same view.

We don't know if her other alleged affairs with junior researchers and Kwasi also helped to make her marriage even stronger.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:53 am

_Os_ wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:39 pm I'm not "just shouting "it's racist"" though am I. As a South African you learn to not to do that and just keep pressing on. Over multiple posts I first defined the term coconut describing why it was racist, and then described what the political consequences of that type of thinking are in a society, with an example. To make this post in reply to me, you had to ignore my points, you also ignored my questions about the latter part of all that (the inevitable consequences if the thinking you advocate becomes entrenched). Do you think only people that aren't white can be racial traitors if they support the Tories, and within the context of an increasingly multiracial society do you think this thinking somehow won't be applied to whites if it flourishes, that they too will be racial traitors if they support a certain party?

Very funny about not thinking I knew anything about the hostile environment and the Windrush scandal also, despite actually being an African living in the UK. Then ignoring my reply there also. Have you ever completed a Windrush Scheme application for yourself or a relative, do you know what it entails? Ever been to Lunar House and told your case was all to difficult and to basically fuck off?

You're out of your depth.

I'm bored of your JKM weaseling around the subject so will distil this down to 2 simple questions. The answers are binary. YES or NO? No need for 4 paragraphs of obfuscation.

1) Is the Tory party institutionally racist?
2) Do you think you know better than coloured people (black, if you want to narrow it to this particular debate) what is and isn't racist to them?

So you ignored my questions, thought as much.

I'll finish off the stuff on the hostile environment (which you brought up). You mentioned it to make the point that the Tories were to blame for it. But that's not what anyone who has been subjected to the hostile environment (guessing you haven't?), or has actually gone through the Windrush Scheme process themselves or helped a relative through it, would think. I know this because I'm speaking from personal experience. Instead the entire UK state is blamed, not just the Tories alone. The Windrush Scheme process makes it really naked, because all the various seemingly arbitrary cut off dates (if before abc date x applies otherwise y applies) are the dates laws came into force which further stripped people of rights until they were turned into illegal immigrants. These laws span 1949 to1983, under both Tory and Labour governments, a leaked Home Office report admits immigration laws during those 30 years were intentionally designed to limit the UK's non-white population.

Now, if you actually knew what you were talking about you would know this, and the names of all the Acts of Parliament the dates they came into force and what they did (as I do, but you're pleading you struggle with paragraphs). And that all the hostile environment really did was enforce them (by empowering petty officials that don't even understand the laws) and then added to them. Anyway ...

1. I think it's widely known they're an Islamophobic organisation, this is what even some of their reps who are Muslim have said. I'm not going to fight that hard if someone says they're institutionally racist.
2. Black people aren't a monolith, there is no black hive mind. As with white people there's many different views. The ones who get called racial traitors because of their political views, do not regard themselves as being white, they say they are black but you choose to ignore them and I don't. Unintentionally your question shows where you're going wrong, for it to make sense and be answerable the starting point has to be a one size fits all cookie cutter with no deviation, there's no room in your thought for individuals with their own opinions. Not convinced you would treat whites this way, as in something like "Are you against Brexit and therefore against the opinion of the whites and trying to dictate your view to the whites? YES or NO".

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:52 am It's contentious whether 2 people of the same race and or culture could ever be accused of racially insulting one another (other than deliberately in jest or irony... go back to context or intent ^^^). Hence, regardless of factual accuracy about black Tories betraying their own race/culture, other blacks calling them coconuts is not racist. It simply is a non sequitur.

I missed this post last night. Quite a bit of ignorance in it.

"Racism" literally came into widespread popular usage in the 1930s to describe German Nazi policies towards German Jews. The word was used before then, but not widely. The literal original popular usage of the word racism was the Nazi position that Jews are racial traitors and therefore not white and thus fair game for all types of discrimination.

_Os_ wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:43 am
2. Black people aren't a monolith, there is no black hive mind. As with white people there's many different views. The ones who get called racial traitors because of their political views, do not regard themselves as being white, they say they are black but you choose to ignore them and I don't. Unintentionally your question shows where you're going wrong, for it to make sense and be answerable the starting point has to be a one size fits all cookie cutter with no deviation, there's no room in your thought for individuals with their own opinions. Not convinced you would treat whites this way, as in something like "Are you against Brexit and therefore against the opinion of the whites and trying to dictate your view to the whites? YES or NO".

We are simply going to disagree here. You are trying to disaggregate peoples (all of them. Through the entirety of history) into the smallest quantum: that of the individual. Taking it that far would mean no identifiable races, cultures or religions. No such thing as the Incas. No such thing as the Romans. No such thing as the Ismailis. You have gone too far down that path and I think, in a desperate attempt to be seen to be uber-liberal minded, have confused the fact that there is room for individuality in any group BUT that those very same individuals either choose to be part of a group or accept that wider society categorises them as such. Your take here would render the world in which we live nonsensical. Burn the history books. Tear up the borders.

Sometimes group are what the majority says they are and, in this case, the majority of blacks in this country would call those Tories coconuts and, by extension, have both claimed them as part of their own group whilst calling them out as traitors. Whether the coconuts would take your stance and say "hey, we are not black" is highly debatable but I think unlikely and, in the end, irrelevant.

Your last question is not even close to a comparator: - the Brexit split was roughly equal and not millions versus numbers you can count on 2 hands. Also, it was an issue across all groups. I know very many Asians who voted out. Not just a few.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:56 am You are trying to disaggregate peoples (all of them. Through the entirety of history) into the smallest quantum: that of the individual. Taking it that far would mean no identifiable races, cultures or religions. No such thing as the Incas. No such thing as the Romans. No such thing as the Ismailis. You have gone too far down that path and I think, in a desperate attempt to be seen to be uber-liberal minded, have confused the fact that there is room for individuality in any group BUT that those very same individuals either choose to be part of a group or accept that wider society categorises them as such.

Race, culture, and religion aren't all the same thing though. You don't get to freely choose your race, so you either accept the individual or impose a racial construct on them. No clue how the Romans fit into this? Pretty sure at no point have I argued cultures and religions don't exist.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:56 am Sometimes group are what the majority says they are and, in this case, the majority of blacks in this country would call those Tories coconuts and, by extension, have both claimed them as part of their own group whilst calling them out as traitors. Whether the coconuts would take your stance and say "hey, we are not black" is highly debatable but I think unlikely and, in the end, irrelevant.

Where have I said they would say "we're not black"? I've seen Patel and Badenoch both answer the points you're making, and they say their race remains unchanged and those accusing them are racists.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:56 am Your last question is not even close to a comparator: - the Brexit split was roughly equal and not millions versus numbers you can count on 2 hands. Also, it was an issue across all groups. I know very many Asians who voted out. Not just a few.

It's not always a good idea dismissing a minority opinion out of hand. Something doesn't need to be a majority view to be legitimate and even to be the truth. Which was the point I was making with that example.

You're right though, we're not going to agree, think I said that posts back already.

We’re trying to hate Tories here, will you two shut the fuck up and take it elsewhere.

I find it quite an interesting discussion

Calculon wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:44 am I find it quite an interesting discussion

You can jolly well join them else where then!

Rees-Smug at it again!

Ministers were keen to launch a review to revive imperial measurements – such as pounds and ounces – and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS), now overseen by Jacob Rees-Mogg, conducted a government consultation over the summer. However, the questions appeared to have something missing.
The survey asked consumers: “If you had a choice, would you want to purchase items: i) in imperial units ii) in imperial units alongside a metric equivalent.”
No other option was given.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ ... -brexit

If you can't achieve the target, simply remove it...

Biffer wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:34 am We’re trying to hate Tories here, will you two shut the fuck up and take it elsewhere.

It's a general UK politics thread, there's stuff on the first page about the FPTP electoral system. Starmer's effectiveness or otherwise pops up now and again. Only Brexit isn't covered because that's so large it has a separate thread.

The Venn diagram of hating the Tories and UK politics is just a perfect circle a lot of the time.

SaintK wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:30 am Rees-Smug at it again!

Ministers were keen to launch a review to revive imperial measurements – such as pounds and ounces – and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS), now overseen by Jacob Rees-Mogg, conducted a government consultation over the summer. However, the questions appeared to have something missing.
The survey asked consumers: “If you had a choice, would you want to purchase items: i) in imperial units ii) in imperial units alongside a metric equivalent.”
No other option was given.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ ... -brexit

I responded to that and gave them both barrels about its bias as part of the responses, how it would hamper uk business etc etc

Jacob Rees-Mogg hires psychologists to support victims of the Post Office scandal

Jacob Rees-Mogg is hiring a team of specialist psychologists to provide mental health support to victims of the Post Office Horizon scandal at an inquiry into the saga later this year.

The Business Secretary is drafting in a witness psychological support team for the statutory inquiry over fears that vulnerable victims, some of whom were wrongly sent to jail, might suffer distress in the face of challenging questioning.

During the 2000s and early 2010s, Post Office bosses wrongly prosecuted hundreds of their own staff for theft and fraud using evidence based on the flawed Horizon IT system, which the sub-postmasters used to run their branches.

Courts have heard allegations that Post Office bosses knew Horizon was flawed but still proceeded with prosecutions.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... st-office/

There's a surprise. The Minister for the 18th Century doing something right for the victims of a terrible wrong.

Start as they mean to go on.