NPR

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:30 pm We're back to the tolerance paradox.

I'm with JMK. There are some people whose views mean you just can't have a discussion. I remember back in the Obama days seeing a US politician say of a woman holding a banner with Obama sporting a Hitler 'stache imposed over a swastika that talking to people like her was akin to talking with a table.

A Tory supporter who wants to go over whether cutting or raising taxes will actually stimulate the economy is one thing. Wilfully misinterpreting Labour policy to mean they'd give a vote to anyone who can step on a UK beach is another entirely.

Insane_Homer wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:11 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:19 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:31 pm Yes, that's abuse. I also couldn't give a shit whether he thinks it's abuse or not; anyone who unironically shares Andy Ngo is deeply suspect, and if mdaclarke is representative of the regulary Tory voter then this country is in a much worse state than I realised. But he's not - he's just a fringe weirdo who'd be gobbling down Q-Anon shit if he lived in the USA.

You do keep proving him right though

dpedin wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:29 pm Well after todays shitshow I am more that ever convinced that we are seeing the actual implementation of 'Britannia Unchained' and 'The Sovereign Individual' in plain sight.

JRM was feckin awful in HoC being held to account for energy and fracking, just an out of his depth, supercilious and arrogant twat. Coffey is just an idiot who doesn't realise what an idiot she is and her ABCD for the NHS was truly lazy, shocking and infantile. A puerile analysis and no plans to address the real issues ie workforce. Setting out 'expectations' rather than real accountable targets and blaming GPs for everything was just pathetic. Hidden away was the aim to use the private sector as mush as possible to hit targets ie hidden privatisation. Targeting folk on Universal Credit who only work part time is just vicious and belies their beliefs that the British worker is lazy - see Britannia Unchained. The trailing of the 'Not the Budget' Fiscal Event has been scary, if you didn't have anything to hide then why not publish the OBR analysis? The whole 'levelling up' agenda has been binned by the very guys who sold it to us in the first place, it was La La Land anyway, and has been replaced by a nebulous 'growth' objective which essentially means Gov borrowing lots of money which Joe Public will need to pay back over next 10 - 20 years in order to line the pockets of their backers ie bankers, power industries, etc. I could go on .... Freeports and Charter Cities, no doubt called some other stupid name, scare the shit out of me.

We are really up shit creek without a paddle and the markets and exchanges are voting with their money. Obviously hiring 'experts' from the Taxpayer Alliance and IEA as the new gov economic advisors hasn't seemed to quell the fears of the markets This is a bunch of right wing zealots on a ideological spree, put in place by the ERG and going for broke before being found out. It is going to be a feckin shambles. I honestly despair.

C69 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:18 am Trickle down economics.
Surely decreasing stamp duty increases house prices and ergo inflation and interest rates.

C69 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:00 am The proposed NI changes etc will make me and my family massively better off but. Ffs targetting people like me when millions are fecked on the breadline is morally bankrupt.
JRM is such an odious cnut... That is all

Blackmac wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:27 am

C69 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:00 am The proposed NI changes etc will make me and my family massively better off but. Ffs targetting people like me when millions are fecked on the breadline is morally bankrupt.
JRM is such an odious cnut... That is all

Surely a threshold raise is a far better way that doesn't disproportionately benefit the well off.

I like neeps wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:20 am

Blackmac wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:27 am

C69 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:00 am The proposed NI changes etc will make me and my family massively better off but. Ffs targetting people like me when millions are fecked on the breadline is morally bankrupt.
JRM is such an odious cnut... That is all

Surely a threshold raise is a far better way that doesn't disproportionately benefit the well off.

The point is to benefit the better off though.

I'll say one thing for Truss, she is unashamed in saying the Tory party exists for the city of london, high earners and asset owners and has modelled every policy intervention solely for them. Johnson and May tried to pretend there was some other purpose behind it all.

tc27 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:01 am

I like neeps wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:20 am

Blackmac wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:27 am

Surely a threshold raise is a far better way that doesn't disproportionately benefit the well off.

The point is to benefit the better off though.

I'll say one thing for Truss, she is unashamed in saying the Tory party exists for the city of london, high earners and asset owners and has modelled every policy intervention solely for them. Johnson and May tried to pretend there was some other purpose behind it all.

Think its about sending out pro business and wealth creation signals - yes its ironic when that same group took the most anti business decision of the last few decades in removing us from the EEA.

As ever with the UK the City, London and the SE of England is a tax revenue machine for the government - what's needed is a way to use this cash to make other parts of the UK more successful. This is what I think the 'levelling up' agenda was about but its going to take brave decisions like actually overriding NIMBYS and building more rail, roads and housing

dpedin wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:29 pm The whole 'levelling up' agenda has been binned by the very guys who sold it to us in the first place, it was La La Land anyway, and has been replaced by a nebulous 'growth' objective which essentially means Gov borrowing lots of money which Joe Public will need to pay back over next 10 - 20 years in order to line the pockets of their backers ie bankers, power industries, etc.

_Os_ wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:43 am
So they're not primarily motivated by growth or by sovereignty. Which leaves either stupidity or malice as their main driver, a lot of them are just morons that don't know what they're doing.

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:19 am

_Os_ wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:43 am
So they're not primarily motivated by growth or by sovereignty. Which leaves either stupidity or malice as their main driver, a lot of them are just morons that don't know what they're doing.

Yet think they do.

Of course there's room for being a malicious moron. Idiots doing what they're told by their paymasters despite the evidence that it's harming the country/populous.

dpedin wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:36 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:19 am

_Os_ wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:43 am
So they're not primarily motivated by growth or by sovereignty. Which leaves either stupidity or malice as their main driver, a lot of them are just morons that don't know what they're doing.

Yet think they do.

Of course there's room for being a malicious moron. Idiots doing what they're told by their paymasters despite the evidence that it's harming the country/populous.

They know exactly what they are doing - they wrote all about it in 'Sovereign Individual' and 'Britannia Unchained' and I agree are now funded by their rich paymasters. They believe in an unregulated, market driven big business multinational driven economy with minimal gov intervention and the focus on individuals working hard according to what they are worth. They all accept that along the way there will be damage to the economy, society and individuals before we reach this Unicorn Nirvana and we will be at a competitive advantage in the world because we have got there first. It is cloud cuckoo land dreamt up by the super rich and privileged in the debating halls of Oxbridge and dinner parties with no base in the reality of the world the rest of us live in. This is just the start folks, it will get a lot worse than this including the sell off of the NHS, further attacks on Unions and individual rights ie ECHR, Employment rights, etc, investment zones set up to become tax avoidance and quasi slave labour zones, etc. They will have the pedal to the metal as they know they only have 2 years to implement all this and tie the UK Gov into as much of their bullshit as possible, it is a suicide squad for the UK economy!

PS Putin will love the UK economy collapsing as it will before Xmas, I wonder how much it has cost him?

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:42 am

dpedin wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:36 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:19 am

Yet think they do.

Of course there's room for being a malicious moron. Idiots doing what they're told by their paymasters despite the evidence that it's harming the country/populous.

They know exactly what they are doing - they wrote all about it in 'Sovereign Individual' and 'Britannia Unchained' and I agree are now funded by their rich paymasters. They believe in an unregulated, market driven big business multinational driven economy with minimal gov intervention and the focus on individuals working hard according to what they are worth. They all accept that along the way there will be damage to the economy, society and individuals before we reach this Unicorn Nirvana and we will be at a competitive advantage in the world because we have got there first. It is cloud cuckoo land dreamt up by the super rich and privileged in the debating halls of Oxbridge and dinner parties with no base in the reality of the world the rest of us live in. This is just the start folks, it will get a lot worse than this including the sell off of the NHS, further attacks on Unions and individual rights ie ECHR, Employment rights, etc, investment zones set up to become tax avoidance and quasi slave labour zones, etc. They will have the pedal to the metal as they know they only have 2 years to implement all this and tie the UK Gov into as much of their bullshit as possible, it is a suicide squad for the UK economy!

PS Putin will love the UK economy collapsing as it will before Xmas, I wonder how much it has cost him?

Some of them do for sure, probably a greater proportion of DisasTruss' cabinet than Bojo the Clown's, but there are still plenty of Tories who just allow those who do have a plan, an evil plan, to lead them by the nose and are content to be useful idiots. Some clearly think that doing what they're told somehow makes them clever.

dpedin wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:36 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:19 am

_Os_ wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:43 am
So they're not primarily motivated by growth or by sovereignty. Which leaves either stupidity or malice as their main driver, a lot of them are just morons that don't know what they're doing.

Yet think they do.

Of course there's room for being a malicious moron. Idiots doing what they're told by their paymasters despite the evidence that it's harming the country/populous.

They know exactly what they are doing - they wrote all about it in 'Sovereign Individual' and 'Britannia Unchained' and I agree are now funded by their rich paymasters. They believe in an unregulated, market driven big business multinational driven economy with minimal gov intervention and the focus on individuals working hard according to what they are worth. They all accept that along the way there will be damage to the economy, society and individuals before we reach this Unicorn Nirvana and we will be at a competitive advantage in the world because we have got there first. It is cloud cuckoo land dreamt up by the super rich and privileged in the debating halls of Oxbridge and dinner parties with no base in the reality of the world the rest of us live in. This is just the start folks, it will get a lot worse than this including the sell off of the NHS, further attacks on Unions and individual rights ie ECHR, Employment rights, etc, investment zones set up to become tax avoidance and quasi slave labour zones, etc. They will have the pedal to the metal as they know they only have 2 years to implement all this and tie the UK Gov into as much of their bullshit as possible, it is a suicide squad for the UK economy!

PS Putin will love the UK economy collapsing as it will before Xmas, I wonder how much it has cost him?

_Os_ wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:55 am

dpedin wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:36 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:19 am

Yet think they do.

Of course there's room for being a malicious moron. Idiots doing what they're told by their paymasters despite the evidence that it's harming the country/populous.

They know exactly what they are doing - they wrote all about it in 'Sovereign Individual' and 'Britannia Unchained' and I agree are now funded by their rich paymasters. They believe in an unregulated, market driven big business multinational driven economy with minimal gov intervention and the focus on individuals working hard according to what they are worth. They all accept that along the way there will be damage to the economy, society and individuals before we reach this Unicorn Nirvana and we will be at a competitive advantage in the world because we have got there first. It is cloud cuckoo land dreamt up by the super rich and privileged in the debating halls of Oxbridge and dinner parties with no base in the reality of the world the rest of us live in. This is just the start folks, it will get a lot worse than this including the sell off of the NHS, further attacks on Unions and individual rights ie ECHR, Employment rights, etc, investment zones set up to become tax avoidance and quasi slave labour zones, etc. They will have the pedal to the metal as they know they only have 2 years to implement all this and tie the UK Gov into as much of their bullshit as possible, it is a suicide squad for the UK economy!

PS Putin will love the UK economy collapsing as it will before Xmas, I wonder how much it has cost him?

This is where we go down a rabbit hole of what intelligence is, how much education matters and all the rest of it.

They're revolutionary zealots, they have one very simple ideology, and they will apply that narrow answer to every situation. They have no way of formulating novel answers outside of that simple ideology, nor can they ever understand anything complicated (which is most things). A lot of what they believe has been debunked, but they have revolutionary commitment so none of that makes any impression on them. Not convinced the majority of them are malicious, they just genuinely believe they have the answer and there will be sunlit uplands. It ends up being stupid.

Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng has unveiled the biggest package of tax cuts in 50 years, as he hailed a "new era" for the UK economy.

weegie01 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:23 am When do we get the Scottish budget so we can find if we get any of the cuts? My guess is very little will come our way.

dpedin wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:38 am OK some folk will not agree with him but this is a pretty realistic scenario we face after this 'budget'. Scary stuff!

ASMO wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:56 am We are so fucked it is not even funny, this bunch of cunts could not care less, ideology over reality.

Biffer wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:26 am

dpedin wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:38 am OK some folk will not agree with him but this is a pretty realistic scenario we face after this 'budget'. Scary stuff!

That's some fucking scary reading.