NPR

Biffer wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:51 pm I was at a conference this week. Talks, industry exhibit, the whole works. Another bit of normal working it's way back.

I couldn't think of anything worse - but we're only just emerging from Lockdown here.

tc27 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:55 pm Any of the Scottish NPRers getting their vaccine pass app sorted? My mate is having a hard time getting it to work but I suspect our posters are not the nightclub attending demographic....

We need it to go and watch rugby from next week!

Haven’t tried yet but planning to have a fiddle later

fishfoodie wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:10 am

Calculon wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:11 pm Would think it unlikely many countries would be able to get over 90% vaccinated.

Well then they either accept that Covid is way more than; just a bad flu; & provision significantly more ICU & general capacity in their hospitals; & accept the resultant unnecessary deaths; or they take measures to give the anti-vaxers the choice of being part of a society; or being the pariahs they deserve to be; with no access to large shared spaces.

Being in a society has responsibilities as well as rights; & you don't get one without the other !

With each mutation of Covid being progressively more aggressive; the 90% vaccination goal, might become 92%, or 95%; & until we get the majority of the planet vaccinated; those mutations will continue to pop up.

Yes thats all well in good for maybe the developed countries. But many (most?) countries have no ability or capacity to 1) reach and maintain even 80 percent 2) do anything significant about their icu and hospital capacities. The majority of the unvaccinated in the world going forward will not be ideological anti-vaxxers. I predict that the entirety of Africa will remain at under 40% vaccinated. How do you shut out 700 million people? These countries have lived with unnecessary deaths forever.

As a result Africa and South America are going to be a very effective incubator and source of mutations. I've read that HIV patients carry this virus for months and that provides a fertile environment for new variations.
https://fortune.com/2021/09/15/south-af ... cientists/


I don't think any country is going to maintain an effectively vaccinated population of much over 60 percent going forward. They may reach a target but surely this is going to have to be a year in year out refreshment cycle. How long can that be maintained for. Even the real champions like New Zealand and Singapore will quickly tire of that.

But anyway, good luck trying to keep the Africans out of Europe based on vaccination passports. We just hop on leaky boats and head for the Greek islands. There are even super helpful German charities who pluck us out of the Med. We don't need passports or any documentation.

Slick wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:21 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:55 pm Any of the Scottish NPRers getting their vaccine pass app sorted? My mate is having a hard time getting it to work but I suspect our posters are not the nightclub attending demographic....

We need it to go and watch rugby from next week!

Haven’t tried yet but planning to have a fiddle later

The apps a mess, and needs sorting now - however you do not need the app - you can download at copy of your vaccination status from NHS Scotland ,and either print it out , our download the image / PDF to your phone

Dogbert wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:42 am

Slick wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:21 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:55 pm Any of the Scottish NPRers getting their vaccine pass app sorted? My mate is having a hard time getting it to work but I suspect our posters are not the nightclub attending demographic....

We need it to go and watch rugby from next week!

Haven’t tried yet but planning to have a fiddle later

The apps a mess, and needs sorting now - however you do not need the app - you can download at copy of your vaccination status from NHS Scotland ,and either print it out , our download the image / PDF to your phone

Yup, I don't exist according to the app. And going through the rigmarole to confirm the biometrics is a bit of a pain, so not something I want to have to do repeatedly. I'm not wanting to get into a nightclub anytime soon (ever), but I would like to go to some rugby matches and travel abroad at some point, so I hope they sort it. Getting a paper copy is fine for getting into matches here, but doesn't help with the international travel, from what I hear (not accepted abroad).

Are you talking about the NHS app? I think if your GP using online booking systems etc, it's all quite smooth (it was very easy for us), but if they're not setup online, then it becomes more of a hassle as you have to contact them I believe.

Dogbert wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:42 am

Slick wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:21 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:55 pm Any of the Scottish NPRers getting their vaccine pass app sorted? My mate is having a hard time getting it to work but I suspect our posters are not the nightclub attending demographic....

We need it to go and watch rugby from next week!

Haven’t tried yet but planning to have a fiddle later

The apps a mess, and needs sorting now - however you do not need the app - you can download at copy of your vaccination status from NHS Scotland ,and either print it out , our download the image / PDF to your phone

Just read the procedure for getting it on the app… I’m not completely shite with computers and phones but I don’t fancy it. Paper for me

Raggs wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:23 am Are you talking about the NHS app? I think if your GP using online booking systems etc, it's all quite smooth (it was very easy for us), but if they're not setup online, then it becomes more of a hassle as you have to contact them I believe.

No, this is the Scotland-specific app that's solely for showing that you're double vaccinated. The general NHS app isn't applicable for Scotland.

Supposedly more people are having success in registering, but sadly not me. Yesterday it would verify my identity but couldn't find any records under my name. Today when I tried again, it can't even verify my identity. All a bit frustrating. Ho hum.

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:24 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:23 am Are you talking about the NHS app? I think if your GP using online booking systems etc, it's all quite smooth (it was very easy for us), but if they're not setup online, then it becomes more of a hassle as you have to contact them I believe.

No, this is the Scotland-specific app that's solely for showing that you're double vaccinated. The general NHS app isn't applicable for Scotland.

Supposedly more people are having success in registering, but sadly not me. Yesterday it would verify my identity but couldn't find any records under my name. Today when I tried again, it can't even verify my identity. All a bit frustrating. Ho hum.

All my mates were having trouble to begin with. Most of them in now. It’s just a high demand thing I think.

Biffer wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:33 pm

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:24 pm

Raggs wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:23 am Are you talking about the NHS app? I think if your GP using online booking systems etc, it's all quite smooth (it was very easy for us), but if they're not setup online, then it becomes more of a hassle as you have to contact them I believe.

No, this is the Scotland-specific app that's solely for showing that you're double vaccinated. The general NHS app isn't applicable for Scotland.

Supposedly more people are having success in registering, but sadly not me. Yesterday it would verify my identity but couldn't find any records under my name. Today when I tried again, it can't even verify my identity. All a bit frustrating. Ho hum.

All my mates were having trouble to begin with. Most of them in now. It’s just a high demand thing I think.

Yeh - in now and all sorted for me.Bit of a pain to begin with though

3rd/booster jab of Pfiser (regardless of your previous brand) seems to knock a lot more people for six afterwards.

Maybe the body can only take so many unapproved and dangerous vaccines in one year?

Regards Dozy

Jacinda's holding a press conference in 10 minutes. New delta cases in Waikato and further afield. Not sounding good at all...

Gumboot wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:51 pm Jacinda's holding a press conference in 10 minutes. New delta cases in Waikato and further afield. Not sounding good at all...

Well; two suggestions.

1) Offer jabs to anyone +12 years old. This generation is happily; more politically, & scientifically aware, & as a result; knows the science, & wants to get the jab, & has a surprising amount of influence on their elders; who might have been sucked in by the arseholes & their anti-vaxxer BS.

2) Setup facilities called; "Terminal care facilities"; preferably right beside crematoriums; so the un-vaxxed know where they're going to get sent to if they get sick; because the full facilities are for the people who believe in medical science when they aren't sick; not the arseholes who only believe when it suits them; i.e. when it's too late !

The linked article in the tweet is paywalled but you can get the gist by reading all the tweets appended to the first one. Whether this is reliable and impartial analysis or trying to point the finger about the "released from lab" POV....

first reply to that tweet sums up my feelings

If it’s spreading virulently in Wuhan in summer……how was it not spreading virulently around the world also? How many thousands of flights into and out of Wuhan every week? How did it only emerge globally in January/February of 2020….that’s not remotely possible is it?

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:07 pm first reply to that tweet sums up my feelings

If it’s spreading virulently in Wuhan in summer……how was it not spreading virulently around the world also? How many thousands of flights into and out of Wuhan every week? How did it only emerge globally in January/February of 2020….that’s not remotely possible is it?

It's also reported that China was dealing with an outbreak of fatal Swine Fever in 2019, I wonder if the "researchers" even took that into account?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-swin ... SKBN20S189

Guys - don't worry its all over now anyway! We only have c800 deaths a week in the UK due to covid, that's a paltry 42,000 deaths a year. Ok it might go up during winter but this is expected and apparently an acceptable level of deaths for our Government. Ok 34,000 cases of covid a day over the last 7 days will mean a few more deaths to come but, hey ho, that's hardly letting the bodies pile high is it? Let's focus on the more important things like ... stopping a few hundred migrants in dinghies coming over the channel.

My cousins and a very good mate have got it at the moment and suffering badly, think my cousin will end up in hospital- hugely overweight and asthma.

It’s certainly not over

dpedin wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:48 pm Guys - don't worry its all over now anyway! We only have c800 deaths a week in the UK due to covid, that's a paltry 42,000 deaths a year. Ok it might go up during winter but this is expected and apparently an acceptable level of deaths for our Government. Ok 34,000 cases of covid a day over the last 7 days will mean a few more deaths to come but, hey ho, that's hardly letting the bodies pile high is it? Let's focus on the more important things like ... stopping a few hundred migrants in dinghies coming over the channel.

If three full airplanes crashed every week; you could be fucking sure you'd have a public inquiry within a month; & equally sure that no more planes would be taking off, until some questions were answered !

But hey; who cares if they're dying in ones & twos ?

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:31 pm

dpedin wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:48 pm Guys - don't worry its all over now anyway! We only have c800 deaths a week in the UK due to covid, that's a paltry 42,000 deaths a year. Ok it might go up during winter but this is expected and apparently an acceptable level of deaths for our Government. Ok 34,000 cases of covid a day over the last 7 days will mean a few more deaths to come but, hey ho, that's hardly letting the bodies pile high is it? Let's focus on the more important things like ... stopping a few hundred migrants in dinghies coming over the channel.

If three full airplanes crashed every week; you could be fucking sure you'd have a public inquiry within a month; & equally sure that no more planes would be taking off, until some questions were answered !

But hey; who cares if they're dying in ones & twos ?

41,000 cases in EU yesterday, 34,000 in the UK! Just as well we left the EU, think what our covid numbers would be like if we hadn't!

dpedin wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:48 pm Guys - don't worry its all over now anyway! We only have c800 deaths a week in the UK due to covid, that's a paltry 42,000 deaths a year. Ok it might go up during winter but this is expected and apparently an acceptable level of deaths for our Government. Ok 34,000 cases of covid a day over the last 7 days will mean a few more deaths to come but, hey ho, that's hardly letting the bodies pile high is it? Let's focus on the more important things like ... stopping a few hundred migrants in dinghies coming over the channel.

I’m sure you’re not meaning too… but let’s not gloss over the shitshow in Scotland as well

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:16 pm

dpedin wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:36 pm
41,000 cases in EU yesterday, 34,000 in the UK! Just as well we left the EU, think what our covid numbers would be like if we hadn't!

Looking at the cases /100k , UK is 50, EU (west) less than 10, even the US with all the crazy mother’s f..kers in the red states is around 30/100k.

Why these numbers in the UK? I like to know as the medias here don’t talk about it.

I'm pretty certain the UK will do more testing than other EU countries although the UK's daily/weekly/monthly death rates are also higher than the likes of Germany, France and Italy - so it makes sense that case numbers are also higher in the UK. I think other EU countries have also relaxed coronavirus restrictions so I have no idea why covid-19 is seemingly worse in the UK.

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:07 pm first reply to that tweet sums up my feelings

If it’s spreading virulently in Wuhan in summer……how was it not spreading virulently around the world also? How many thousands of flights into and out of Wuhan every week? How did it only emerge globally in January/February of 2020….that’s not remotely possible is it?

Seems unlikely but possible to me. The cases and deaths would've been low in the summer.

The UK's confirmed first death was 30th of January 2020, the man who died had never left the UK in his entire life. His daughter suspected he died of Covid-19 when the pandemic accelerated later in 2020 and had a postmortem done (before then the UK's first confirmed case as the day after he died). For someone to die of Covid-19 in the UK on the 30th of January 2020, means it was in the UK in the wild at least in December 2019 which would predate the first official Chinese statements it existed on the 30th and 31st of December 2019.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/30/daughter ... -13992448/

It's been reported that US intelligence intercepted internal Chinese communications in November 2019 talking about Covid and that the US shared that intelligence with NATO and Israel. How true that is, I have no idea. Brazilian sewerage samples from November 2019 that were later tested for Covid-19, showed it was there in Brazil before the first confirmed case in South America. Tests on tissue samples taken in November 2019 show it was in France and Italy by then also.

Whatever the case it didn't "emerge globally in January/February of 2020", and we knew that last year already, it was fully global by December 2019 at the very latest.

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:50 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:16 pm

dpedin wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:36 pm
41,000 cases in EU yesterday, 34,000 in the UK! Just as well we left the EU, think what our covid numbers would be like if we hadn't!

Looking at the cases /100k , UK is 50, EU (west) less than 10, even the US with all the crazy mother’s f..kers in the red states is around 30/100k.

Why these numbers in the UK? I like to know as the medias here don’t talk about it.

I'm pretty certain the UK will do more testing than other EU countries although the UK's daily/weekly/monthly death rates are also higher than the likes of Germany, France and Italy - so it makes sense that case numbers are also higher in the UK. I think other EU countries have also relaxed coronavirus restrictions so I have no idea why covid-19 is seemingly worse in the UK.

The UK has done 4.7 million tests per million population. Germany has done 870k.

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:23 pm

dpedin wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:48 pm Guys - don't worry its all over now anyway! We only have c800 deaths a week in the UK due to covid, that's a paltry 42,000 deaths a year. Ok it might go up during winter but this is expected and apparently an acceptable level of deaths for our Government. Ok 34,000 cases of covid a day over the last 7 days will mean a few more deaths to come but, hey ho, that's hardly letting the bodies pile high is it? Let's focus on the more important things like ... stopping a few hundred migrants in dinghies coming over the channel.

I’m sure you’re not meaning too… but let’s not gloss over the shitshow in Scotland as well

I'm sure I said UK? Last time I looked that included Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as well as England?

_Os_ wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:26 pm

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:07 pm first reply to that tweet sums up my feelings

If it’s spreading virulently in Wuhan in summer……how was it not spreading virulently around the world also? How many thousands of flights into and out of Wuhan every week? How did it only emerge globally in January/February of 2020….that’s not remotely possible is it?

Seems unlikely but possible to me. The cases and deaths would've been low in the summer.

The UK's confirmed first death was 30th of January 2020, the man who died had never left the UK in his entire life. His daughter suspected he died of Covid-19 when the pandemic accelerated later in 2020 and had a postmortem done (before then the UK's first confirmed case as the day after he died). For someone to die of Covid-19 in the UK on the 30th of January 2020, means it was in the UK in the wild at least in December 2019 which would predate the first official Chinese statements it existed on the 30th and 31st of December 2019.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/30/daughter ... -13992448/

It's been reported that US intelligence intercepted internal Chinese communications in November 2019 talking about Covid and that the US shared that intelligence with NATO and Israel. How true that is, I have no idea. Brazilian sewerage samples from November 2019 that were later tested for Covid-19, showed it was there in Brazil before the first confirmed case in South America. Tests on tissue samples taken in November 2019 show it was in France and Italy by then also.

Whatever the case it didn't "emerge globally in January/February of 2020", and we knew that last year already, it was fully global by December 2019 at the very latest.

It's claiming sars-cov-2 was "spreading virulently" since at least May 2019, when it alleges that a significant increase in spending" was noticed.

I don't know the credentials of the authors "Internet 2.0" , but they allege that there was an increase of
3.5 million sterling spent on "PCR equipment" in Hubei in 2019 from the previous year. Hubei is a province of 58 million. That amount of money is absolute peanuts for spending on, however "Internet 2.0" defined it, "PCR equipment."

It doesn't matter, if it was "spreading virulently" since at least May 2019 in Wuhan, the chances of it not spreading virulently outside of Wuhan till December 2019 is very unlikely. It's a silly report.

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:40 pm

_Os_ wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:26 pm

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:07 pm first reply to that tweet sums up my feelings

Seems unlikely but possible to me. The cases and deaths would've been low in the summer.

The UK's confirmed first death was 30th of January 2020, the man who died had never left the UK in his entire life. His daughter suspected he died of Covid-19 when the pandemic accelerated later in 2020 and had a postmortem done (before then the UK's first confirmed case as the day after he died). For someone to die of Covid-19 in the UK on the 30th of January 2020, means it was in the UK in the wild at least in December 2019 which would predate the first official Chinese statements it existed on the 30th and 31st of December 2019.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/30/daughter ... -13992448/

It's been reported that US intelligence intercepted internal Chinese communications in November 2019 talking about Covid and that the US shared that intelligence with NATO and Israel. How true that is, I have no idea. Brazilian sewerage samples from November 2019 that were later tested for Covid-19, showed it was there in Brazil before the first confirmed case in South America. Tests on tissue samples taken in November 2019 show it was in France and Italy by then also.

Whatever the case it didn't "emerge globally in January/February of 2020", and we knew that last year already, it was fully global by December 2019 at the very latest.

It's claiming sars-cov-2 was "spreading virulently" since at least May 2019, when it alleges that a significant increase in spending" was noticed.

I don't know the credentials of the authors "Internet 2.0" , but they allege that there was an increase of
3.8 million spent on "PCR equipment" in Hubei in 2019 from the previous year. Hubei is a province of 58 million. That amount of money is absolute peanuts for spending on, however "Internet 2.0" defined it, "PCR equipment."

It doesn't matter, if it was "spreading virulently" since at least May 2019 in Wuhan, the chances of it not spreading virulently outside of Wuhan till December 2019 is very unlikely. It's a silly report.

25+ million passengers fly into/out of Wuhan each year, many to and from international destinations. I would have thought that some of them might have caught an extremely virulent virus and carried it to other Chinese or overseas destinations pretty quickly and probably in fairly large numbers, certainly within a few weeks or months of the virus spreading through Wuhan? If covid was spreading in Summer then I would have thought it would have been identified by late summer in a number of locations across the world?

dpedin wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:50 pm

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:40 pm

_Os_ wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:26 pm Seems unlikely but possible to me. The cases and deaths would've been low in the summer.

The UK's confirmed first death was 30th of January 2020, the man who died had never left the UK in his entire life. His daughter suspected he died of Covid-19 when the pandemic accelerated later in 2020 and had a postmortem done (before then the UK's first confirmed case as the day after he died). For someone to die of Covid-19 in the UK on the 30th of January 2020, means it was in the UK in the wild at least in December 2019 which would predate the first official Chinese statements it existed on the 30th and 31st of December 2019.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/30/daughter ... -13992448/

It's been reported that US intelligence intercepted internal Chinese communications in November 2019 talking about Covid and that the US shared that intelligence with NATO and Israel. How true that is, I have no idea. Brazilian sewerage samples from November 2019 that were later tested for Covid-19, showed it was there in Brazil before the first confirmed case in South America. Tests on tissue samples taken in November 2019 show it was in France and Italy by then also.

Whatever the case it didn't "emerge globally in January/February of 2020", and we knew that last year already, it was fully global by December 2019 at the very latest.

It's claiming sars-cov-2 was "spreading virulently" since at least May 2019, when it alleges that a significant increase in spending" was noticed.

I don't know the credentials of the authors "Internet 2.0" , but they allege that there was an increase of
3.8 million spent on "PCR equipment" in Hubei in 2019 from the previous year. Hubei is a province of 58 million. That amount of money is absolute peanuts for spending on, however "Internet 2.0" defined it, "PCR equipment."

It doesn't matter, if it was "spreading virulently" since at least May 2019 in Wuhan, the chances of it not spreading virulently outside of Wuhan till December 2019 is very unlikely. It's a silly report.

25+ million passengers fly into/out of Wuhan each year, many to and from international destinations. I would have thought that some of them might have caught an extremely virulent virus and carried it to other Chinese or overseas destinations pretty quickly and probably in fairly large numbers, certainly within a few weeks or months of the virus spreading through Wuhan? If covid was spreading in Summer then I would have thought it would have been identified by late summer in a number of locations across the world?

sure , and if they were already significantly increasing spending on PCR equipment to test for a novel sars cov by May, it actually suggest that the virus was more likely spreading virulently by April if not earlier.

I had a look at the spending figures published by Internet 2.0, and spending on "pcr equipment" in hubei province doubled from 2015 to 2016, so maybe sars cov 2 was already spreading virulently in 2016?

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:40 pm

_Os_ wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:26 pm

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:07 pm first reply to that tweet sums up my feelings

Seems unlikely but possible to me. The cases and deaths would've been low in the summer.

The UK's confirmed first death was 30th of January 2020, the man who died had never left the UK in his entire life. His daughter suspected he died of Covid-19 when the pandemic accelerated later in 2020 and had a postmortem done (before then the UK's first confirmed case as the day after he died). For someone to die of Covid-19 in the UK on the 30th of January 2020, means it was in the UK in the wild at least in December 2019 which would predate the first official Chinese statements it existed on the 30th and 31st of December 2019.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/30/daughter ... -13992448/

It's been reported that US intelligence intercepted internal Chinese communications in November 2019 talking about Covid and that the US shared that intelligence with NATO and Israel. How true that is, I have no idea. Brazilian sewerage samples from November 2019 that were later tested for Covid-19, showed it was there in Brazil before the first confirmed case in South America. Tests on tissue samples taken in November 2019 show it was in France and Italy by then also.

Whatever the case it didn't "emerge globally in January/February of 2020", and we knew that last year already, it was fully global by December 2019 at the very latest.

It's claiming sars-cov-2 was "spreading virulently" since at least May 2019, when it alleges that a significant increase in spending" was noticed.

I don't know the credentials of the authors "Internet 2.0" , but they allege that there was an increase of
3.5 million sterling spent on "PCR equipment" in Hubei in 2019 from the previous year. Hubei is a province of 58 million. That amount of money is absolute peanuts for spending on, however "Internet 2.0" defined it, "PCR equipment."

It doesn't matter, if it was "spreading virulently" since at least May 2019 in Wuhan, the chances of it not spreading virulently outside of Wuhan till December 2019 is very unlikely. It's a silly report.

May 2019 seems far too early. But it was in Europe and South America in November 2019, so August-September 2019 in Wuhan seems entirely possible to me which is the summer. The Chinese government lied the whole way through this, so I wouldn't believe anything they come out with.

_Os_ wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:14 pm
May 2019 seems far too early. But it was in Europe and South America in November 2019, so August-September 2019 in Wuhan seems entirely possible to me which is the summer. The Chinese government lied the whole way through this, so I wouldn't believe anything they come out with.

I have no idea what the Chinese government's official position (if they have one) is on when the most recent common ancestor of sars cov 2 emerged, but these phylogenetic studies suggest October or November 2019.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.25731

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7095063/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199730/

I've not properly read the articles and even if I did my knowledge of phylogenetics is nowhere near good enough to act as a critical reviewer. Even so, fwiw, October 2019 seems reasonable to me

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:16 pm

dpedin wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:36 pm
41,000 cases in EU yesterday, 34,000 in the UK! Just as well we left the EU, think what our covid numbers would be like if we hadn't!

Looking at the cases /100k , UK is 50, EU (west) less than 10, even the US with all the crazy mother’s f..kers in the red states is around 30/100k.

Why these numbers in the UK? I like to know as the medias here don’t talk about it.

I was reading an article at the weekend that was saying that in most other European countries people were still wearing masks and following social distancing, whereas in the U.K., particularly England, it has mostly gone and people just don’t seem to care any longer

Slick wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:32 am

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:16 pm

dpedin wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:36 pm
41,000 cases in EU yesterday, 34,000 in the UK! Just as well we left the EU, think what our covid numbers would be like if we hadn't!

Looking at the cases /100k , UK is 50, EU (west) less than 10, even the US with all the crazy mother’s f..kers in the red states is around 30/100k.

Why these numbers in the UK? I like to know as the medias here don’t talk about it.

I was reading an article at the weekend that was saying that in most other European countries people were still wearing masks and following social distancing, whereas in the U.K., particularly England, it has mostly gone and people just don’t seem to care any longer

I’m on a train for the first time in 18 months. I’d say probably 1/3 of the people are rocking masks. The closer you get to central London though the fewer there are with masks or any thought of keeping a distance.

Slick wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:32 am

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:16 pm

dpedin wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:36 pm
41,000 cases in EU yesterday, 34,000 in the UK! Just as well we left the EU, think what our covid numbers would be like if we hadn't!

Looking at the cases /100k , UK is 50, EU (west) less than 10, even the US with all the crazy mother’s f..kers in the red states is around 30/100k.

Why these numbers in the UK? I like to know as the medias here don’t talk about it.

I was reading an article at the weekend that was saying that in most other European countries people were still wearing masks and following social distancing, whereas in the U.K., particularly England, it has mostly gone and people just don’t seem to care any longer

There are several EU countries that now have better vaccination rates than the UK, and have also been vaccinating children over 12 since May. In contrast, vaccination rates have stalled here, particularly amongst younger people. We have also been reluctant to vaccinate children. Most of the infections seem to be in these groups,

It’s also worth remembering that infections rates across the EU are variable, and there are several EU states (mainly in Eastern Europe) with significantly higher rates than the UK.

That said, the rates in comparable Western European countries are much much lower than the UK.

Lobby wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:47 am

Slick wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:32 am

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:16 pm
Looking at the cases /100k , UK is 50, EU (west) less than 10, even the US with all the crazy mother’s f..kers in the red states is around 30/100k.

Why these numbers in the UK? I like to know as the medias here don’t talk about it.

I was reading an article at the weekend that was saying that in most other European countries people were still wearing masks and following social distancing, whereas in the U.K., particularly England, it has mostly gone and people just don’t seem to care any longer

There are several EU countries that now have better vaccination rates than the UK, and have also been vaccinating children over 12 since May. In contrast, vaccination rates have stalled here, particularly amongst younger people. We have also been reluctant to vaccinate children. Most of the infections seem to be in these groups,

It’s also worth remembering that infections rates across the EU are variable, and there are several EU states (mainly in Eastern Europe) with significantly higher rates than the UK.

That said, the rates in comparable Western European countries are much much lower than the UK.

I agree with this. There seems to be more social responsibility in comparable European countries to following PH advice plus out gov have gone out of their way to provide inappropriate or ineffectual PH advice ie mask wearing!

I appreciate case numbers can be a mixed bag and difficult to compare however the comparative numbers I quoted are pretty stark. However the death rates, which I know some will say are also difficult to compare, would also suggest the UK has a problem. The overall picture is pretty damning for the UK whichever stats you want to use in order to compare us with comparable European countries. We are covid central and the sick man of Western Europe!

Are case numbers really wildly out of kilter skewed towards England in the UK? Didn't appear so last I checked although I'm not constantly looking at these things

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:45 am

Slick wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:32 am

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:16 pm
Looking at the cases /100k , UK is 50, EU (west) less than 10, even the US with all the crazy mother’s f..kers in the red states is around 30/100k.

Why these numbers in the UK? I like to know as the medias here don’t talk about it.

I was reading an article at the weekend that was saying that in most other European countries people were still wearing masks and following social distancing, whereas in the U.K., particularly England, it has mostly gone and people just don’t seem to care any longer

I’m on a train for the first time in 18 months. I’d say probably 1/3 of the people are rocking masks. The closer you get to central London though the fewer there are with masks or any thought of keeping a distance.

Same. I get off at Guildford, but most people on my train will be London-bound and it'a definitely a minority still sporting a mask.

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:43 am Are case numbers really wildly out of kilter skewed towards England in the UK? Didn't appear so last I checked although I'm not constantly looking at these things

I'm not sure anyone said this?

Case numbers in UK are bad in all 4 countries. Scotland got a bad hit when schools went back and were highest in the UK but now England and Wales is suffering same effect. When you look at profile the increase in Scotland was driven by cases in u24 year olds - school and college/uni age groups. However this leaked into u45 year olds as parents became infected by kids who contracted virus at school etc. However Scotland has highest vaccination rates in UK and hospital and admission rates remained low'ish and are dropping now after time lag works through.Same pattern is being seen in England and Wales albeit 2-3 weeks delayed as schools went back later.

Overall, for whole pandemic NI has had the highest number of cases per 100k of pop but England does tend to have highest death rates per 100k of pop across all three measures - within 28 days, by death cert and excess deaths.

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:43 am Are case numbers really wildly out of kilter skewed towards England in the UK? Didn't appear so last I checked although I'm not constantly looking at these things

Over the summer of 2020 Scottish nationalism got a big boost by the perception that the devolved government had handled the epidemic much better than the the UK government had handled it in England (which as of yet has no devolved government) based on case numbers. This lead to the claim by by Nicola Sturgeon that the virus was effectively eliminated over the summer of 2020 in Scotland only to be reseeded by visitors from England (the former based on incorrect data and the second a fairly scurrilous claim by a politician claiming respectability).

Of course subsequent events have undermined this narrative and subsequently the comparable metrics (deaths with CV19 on the certificate) and total cases have fallen broadly into line with each other (particularity given in population and density terms England is quite a different proposition to the other UK nations).

dpedin wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:05 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:43 am Are case numbers really wildly out of kilter skewed towards England in the UK? Didn't appear so last I checked although I'm not constantly looking at these things

I'm not sure anyone said this?

Case numbers in UK are bad in all 4 countries. Scotland got a bad hit when schools went back and were highest in the UK but now England and Wales is suffering same effect. When you look at profile the increase in Scotland was driven by cases in u24 year olds - school and college/uni age groups. However this leaked into u45 year olds as parents became infected by kids who contracted virus at school etc. However Scotland has highest vaccination rates in UK and hospital and admission rates remained low'ish and are dropping now after time lag works through.Same pattern is being seen in England and Wales albeit 2-3 weeks delayed as schools went back later.

Overall, for whole pandemic NI has had the highest number of cases per 100k of pop but England does tend to have highest death rates per 100k of pop across all three measures - within 28 days, by death cert and excess deaths.

I think the key was sending kids back to school/university, before having time for getting a significant cohort of them vaccinated.

Everyone wanted to get back to in person learning; but without them being vaccinated, it was always going to end in a massive spike in cases.

Was the delays in the UK caused by the reliance on the AZ vaccine ?

dpedin wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:05 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:43 am Are case numbers really wildly out of kilter skewed towards England in the UK? Didn't appear so last I checked although I'm not constantly looking at these things

I'm not sure anyone said this?

Case numbers in UK are bad in all 4 countries. Scotland got a bad hit when schools went back and were highest in the UK but now England and Wales is suffering same effect. When you look at profile the increase in Scotland was driven by cases in u24 year olds - school and college/uni age groups. However this leaked into u45 year olds as parents became infected by kids who contracted virus at school etc. However Scotland has highest vaccination rates in UK and hospital and admission rates remained low'ish and are dropping now after time lag works through.Same pattern is being seen in England and Wales albeit 2-3 weeks delayed as schools went back later.

Overall, for whole pandemic NI has had the highest number of cases per 100k of pop but England does tend to have highest death rates per 100k of pop across all three measures - within 28 days, by death cert and excess deaths.

The latest interactive map of cases https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details ... -map/cases

I didn't click on every single area, but from the ones I did the almost all the Scottish areas are seeing a declining number of cases (there is an odd exception of the Outer Hebrides for some reason). Likewise areas in Norn Irn and Wales are decreasing with the majority of areas in England showing increases.
I thought schools in Wales went back the same time as the English ones, perhaps not.