NPR

David in Gwent wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:11 pm Where did all of the missing money go? Where did it end up? Has that question even been asked?

Biffer wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 11:40 am

inactionman wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 11:12 am

Biffer wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 11:06 am

She was CEO, she bears responsibility. If she ran an organisation that was inadequate, it's her responsibility. If there was no trust, it's her responsibility. If there was a fear of reporting problems, it's her responsibility. If there was a cover up, it's her responsibility (even if she didn't know about it). People spent time in prison, were financially ruined, and driven to suicide or early death and she bears responsibility for that. Not all the responsibility, but a significant chunk.

Yep - but egregiously and callously ignoring stated issues with no consideration of ruined lives simply for her own career benefit is a much, much more glaring and odious offence than simply being shit at her job.


(eta: I'm stating that she's bang to rights any which way up, but if she's been in any way cynical then we need to throw away the key.)

Yeah, but what for, is the difficulty. We can't just lock people up without charge. Although there were deaths, it'd be very difficult to get a corporate manslaughter charge in these circumstances. Does it count as a public office where there would be some kind of abuse of function charge? Or Corporate Fraud where there's an intent to defraud creditors? It's difficult to see just where it fits - and I think a lot of it would result in fines for the business rather than individual prosecutions, which would then just mean the taxpayer footing the bill.

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:15 pm

Biffer wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 11:40 am

inactionman wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 11:12 am

Yep - but egregiously and callously ignoring stated issues with no consideration of ruined lives simply for her own career benefit is a much, much more glaring and odious offence than simply being shit at her job.


(eta: I'm stating that she's bang to rights any which way up, but if she's been in any way cynical then we need to throw away the key.)

Yeah, but what for, is the difficulty. We can't just lock people up without charge. Although there were deaths, it'd be very difficult to get a corporate manslaughter charge in these circumstances. Does it count as a public office where there would be some kind of abuse of function charge? Or Corporate Fraud where there's an intent to defraud creditors? It's difficult to see just where it fits - and I think a lot of it would result in fines for the business rather than individual prosecutions, which would then just mean the taxpayer footing the bill.

Malicious prosecution !

She & others could have, & should have know that the evidence on which these people were prosecuted was hopelessly flawed, & yet they ploughed on.

sturginho wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:34 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:15 pm

Biffer wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 11:40 am

Yeah, but what for, is the difficulty. We can't just lock people up without charge. Although there were deaths, it'd be very difficult to get a corporate manslaughter charge in these circumstances. Does it count as a public office where there would be some kind of abuse of function charge? Or Corporate Fraud where there's an intent to defraud creditors? It's difficult to see just where it fits - and I think a lot of it would result in fines for the business rather than individual prosecutions, which would then just mean the taxpayer footing the bill.

Malicious prosecution !

She & others could have, & should have know that the evidence on which these people were prosecuted was hopelessly flawed, & yet they ploughed on.

is that a criminal offence?

Waudbee wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 11:51 am Her life is totally f*cking over as she knows it.

To me, the most disingenuous part of her statement this morning is that she did not know the PO ran its own investigatory/prosecutory department. Utterly implausible when prosecutions had been receiving national publicity.

epwc wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:49 pm Whatever happens it'll take forever:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6pp46z93k6o

inactionman wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:44 am

robmatic wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:10 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:11 am

There is a long tradition of senior execs in government organisations slopey shouldering all responsibility and claiming they don't really know anything about anything in their own organisaton when under fire. Paula Vennells did the same when in front of the HoC. Dido Harding also pulled the "I don't really know how my organisation works' stunt at least twice when giving evidence to the HoC.

They are useless, they are liars or they are useless liars.

I think this is a general failing in British senior management culture, to be honest. Bluffers go far and never have to bear responsibility.

On that note, Vennells giving evidence today.

She's claiming she didn't know but accepts others did know - about failed prosecutions, about reported problems, about anything that might have given a rational, attentive person pause for thought.

Much as I don't like seeing someone breaking down in tears, it was her job to know and many people's lives were ruined because of her ignorance - if we take her claims of ignorance at face value.

If she did know that the prosecutions were unsafe but didn't care enough to act, she needs to go to prison.

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 3:33 pm

I'm not taking her claims of ignorance at face value. She's lying through her teeth.

if it walks like a duck etc.

inactionman wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:12 pm

David in Gwent wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:11 pm Where did all of the missing money go? Where did it end up? Has that question even been asked?

It's not missing.

petej wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 7:01 pm

inactionman wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:12 pm

David in Gwent wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 12:11 pm Where did all of the missing money go? Where did it end up? Has that question even been asked?

It's not missing.

There never was missing money but a lot of people covered the false short fall with their own money and where did that money go?

Blackmac wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 5:39 pm Fucking annoying that Vennell's humiliation will be buried in the avalanche of election bullshit over the next few weeks.

petej wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:04 pm

SaintK wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:52 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:44 pm

Private Eye have been on this for years and deserve great credit. Awful situation

Yes, the Eye have been on it for at least 15 years
Vennell's didn't even apologise until last year. What a good Christian she is, wrecking 100's of lives...........deliberately!

When the Rev Paula Vennells stepped down as chief executive of the Post Office in February 2019, she walked away nearly £5m richer.
As Vennells made for the exit, hundreds of loyal employees were still falsely branded thieves by the business that many of them had given their lives to.
Under the seven-year leadership of Vennells, an Anglican minister, the Post Office had relentlessly pursued subpostmasters and subpostmistresses for alleged offences such as theft and false accounting.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2 ... -vennells

If religion had any real morality Vennells would be excommunicated. I fucking hate any assumption of people being good or bad due them being religious.

SaintK wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 11:20 am Just seen some of the cross examination of Vennells by lawyers representing postmaster groups.
Bloody hell they are not holding back. She is being hammered..........deservedly so!!!

Police are planning to deploy 80 detectives for their criminal inquiry into the Post Office scandal, the Guardian has learned, but victims will face a long wait to discover if charges will follow.
The investigation will examine potential offences of perjury, and perverting the course of justice by Post Office senior leaders as well as the tech company Fujitsu.

There's a brief pause as Beer realises Jenkins is being troubled by a fly which is buzzing around him.

"If it becomes too much, we'll break and get rid of it," the lawyer says.

Someone watching today's evidence mutters: "It's a bug."

inactionman wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:29 am
Anyway, this tickled me on the Beebs live reporting:

There's a brief pause as Beer realises Jenkins is being troubled by a fly which is buzzing around him.

"If it becomes too much, we'll break and get rid of it," the lawyer says.

Someone watching today's evidence mutters: "It's a bug."

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:17 pm I've just been listening to some of Gareth Jenkins' evidence. Unlike many witnesses, his memory seems fine and he's answering the questions asked of him. His colleague, Ann Chambers, came across the same way.

As a former IT person, it will get more interesting to me when he's actually asked about bugs in the Horizon system. in previous evidence, it seems there was an attitude of 'I can't see anything wrong, after a quick look therefore the system must be fine'

inactionman wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2024 3:05 pm I've caught bit of the hearing today, the chief of staff to the CEO who seemed blissfully unaware of a QC's report.

I haven't seen a single witness from the Post Office who hasn't looked like an utter arse.

Blackmac wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:30 am

inactionman wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2024 3:05 pm I've caught bit of the hearing today, the chief of staff to the CEO who seemed blissfully unaware of a QC's report.

I haven't seen a single witness from the Post Office who hasn't looked like an utter arse.

Sadly they don't really give a fuck as they know that nothing will happen to 99.9% of them.

inactionman wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:33 am

Blackmac wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:30 am

inactionman wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2024 3:05 pm I've caught bit of the hearing today, the chief of staff to the CEO who seemed blissfully unaware of a QC's report.

I haven't seen a single witness from the Post Office who hasn't looked like an utter arse.

Sadly they don't really give a fuck as they know that nothing will happen to 99.9% of them.

I'm still not quite sure what happens at the end of this - can Sir Wyn refer or otherwise recommend criminal investigations, or will it rely upon the Police or CPS (for England and Wales anyway) kicking any such investigation off?

It didn't seem to work all that well for Hillsborough - although the only criminal trial was for tampering with statements, which was thrown out because they were only prosecuted for tampering with statements for a non-statutory enquiry which is apparently not a criminal offence. I think the Post Office are in a fair bit deeper merde, but not sure what hits the criminal liability level.

I think everyone has seen enough to realise what a bunch of clowns and sociopaths the Post Office employed, but not sure what justice there will be.

The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount that has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt.
The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, according to a freedom of information (FoI) request submitted by the Lawyer magazine.
Fees are in relation to the group litigation, the subsequent establishment of the compensation schemes, legal advice relating to compliance with the Horizon Issues judgment and Post Office representation at the Horizon IT Inquiry