NPR

Lady P wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:32 pm Also, how much did they struggle with MOTM?! Not sure it should have been Smith.

The lads not massively keen on tackling

That's a little silly. He was going too high today, but still made 12 tackles to go with the five last week. One miss in two internationals in this 6n before this match. Plus 8/1 against Oz, 5/1 against the world champions. He doesn't shirk his tackles. Like Ford he's not very heavy though.

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:40 pm That's a little silly. He was going too high today, but still made 12 tackles to go with the five last week. One miss in two internationals in this 6n before this match. Plus 8/1 against Oz, 5/1 against the world champions. He doesn't shirk his tackles. Like Ford he's not very heavy though.

Hmm. I think you might be looking at the stats again and ignoring what was actually happening on the pitch. He was poor defensively

Slick wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:50 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:40 pm That's a little silly. He was going too high today, but still made 12 tackles to go with the five last week. One miss in two internationals in this 6n before this match. Plus 8/1 against Oz, 5/1 against the world champions. He doesn't shirk his tackles. Like Ford he's not very heavy though.

Hmm. I think you might be looking at the stats again and ignoring what was actually happening on the pitch. He was poor defensively

Yes, he was. That's quite different to saying "he's not massively keen on tackling". It's one thing to say he gave a poor defensive performance, it's quite another to suggest it's because he doesn't fancy it, particularly when he's gone 20/3 in four matches preceding this one. Pretty shitty thing to say really.

Or to put it another way, if he didn't fancy it he definitely wouldn't have made the third most completed tackles in the entire England squad (having attempted sixteen in the first place, the most of anyone on the pitch bar Elias and Faletau). With the same success rate against the same opposition as Duhan vd Merwe and Darcy Graham, and better than Sione Tuipolutu.

Slick wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:50 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:40 pm That's a little silly. He was going too high today, but still made 12 tackles to go with the five last week. One miss in two internationals in this 6n before this match. Plus 8/1 against Oz, 5/1 against the world champions. He doesn't shirk his tackles. Like Ford he's not very heavy though.

Hmm. I think you might be looking at the stats again and ignoring what was actually happening on the pitch. He was poor defensively

I thought he did ok defensively - he may give up a bit of ground, being light, but he didn't get shaken off and never shirked any. Smith's tackling is the least of our problems. Composure and accuracy in the oppo 22 was the main problem, we shoul have put the game out of sight by early in the 2nd half- nonetheless, good enough to get the result, even if some way short of what we'll need to do in our next two games.

Slick wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:26 pm

Lady P wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:32 pm Also, how much did they struggle with MOTM?! Not sure it should have been Smith.

The lads not massively keen on tackling

That sort of absolute bollocks makes it seem that you simply don't like him. You can criticise the efficacy of his tackling, sure, he's not a big guy and that tells sometimes, but there's nothing suggesting a lack of defensive bottle.

He got shaken off a few times. Which doesn't normally happen. It was his worst defensive performance for England. And if 12/4 is his worst, then we'll be just fine

I don't understand why the most creative players get dung thrown at them for not being sixteen stone defensive behemoths, even when their defence is okay, if not Brian Lima style effective.

I'd pick Smith in my team every week if I was picking for England.

Well, actually I'd pick Dan Cole at ten for England if it was up to me.

sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:58 am

Slick wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:26 pm

Lady P wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:32 pm Also, how much did they struggle with MOTM?! Not sure it should have been Smith.

The lads not massively keen on tackling

That sort of absolute bollocks makes it seem that you simply don't like him. You can criticise the efficacy of his tackling, sure, he's not a big guy and that tells sometimes, but there's nothing suggesting a lack of defensive bottle.

Without May he seems a little lost.

World Rugby really need to have a think about Adamson’s place as an international ref. He’s so clearly not up to the standard. Appreciate it’s likely that this game decided rankings between 3 and 5 but a lot of us invest a lot of time and emotion into the national teams and deserve better than what he offers. His club appearances showed beyond doubt he couldn’t hack it

C69 wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:23 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:45 pm Adamson is the kakkest ref by far. Great fightback by Wales

Wales lost, not be caused of the ref but because England scored more.
The missed push on Beard and the different officiating of the breakdown on the second half was idiocyncratic.

The batter team lost this week. Shit happens.

I didn't say Wales lost because of the ref. I don't criticize refs often but vok know he is white dog shite. That hard ones.

sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:58 am

Slick wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:26 pm

Lady P wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:32 pm Also, how much did they struggle with MOTM?! Not sure it should have been Smith.

The lads not massively keen on tackling

That sort of absolute bollocks makes it seem that you simply don't like him. You can criticise the efficacy of his tackling, sure, he's not a big guy and that tells sometimes, but there's nothing suggesting a lack of defensive bottle.

Yes, badly worded after a long day. Not questioning his bravery but he was obviously targeted and Wales seemed to make a lot of ground down his channel

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:02 am

C69 wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:23 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:45 pm Adamson is the kakkest ref by far. Great fightback by Wales

Wales lost, not be caused of the ref but because England scored more.
The missed push on Beard and the different officiating of the breakdown on the second half was idiocyncratic.

The batter team lost this week. Shit happens.

I didn't say Wales lost because of the ref. I don't criticize refs often but vok know he is white dog shite. That hard ones.

He is an awful referee and I'd suggest completely out of his depth at this level
How the fuc k he gets 2 matches this 6N and Wayne Barnes only i is crazy

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:05 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:58 am

Slick wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:26 pm

The lads not massively keen on tackling

That sort of absolute bollocks makes it seem that you simply don't like him. You can criticise the efficacy of his tackling, sure, he's not a big guy and that tells sometimes, but there's nothing suggesting a lack of defensive bottle.

Yes, badly worded after a long day. Not questioning his bravery but he was obviously targeted and Wales seemed to make a lot of ground down his channel

Yup they made him make a lot of tackles and made a lot of ground through him. He should've gone low more often.

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:59 am

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:05 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:58 am

That sort of absolute bollocks makes it seem that you simply don't like him. You can criticise the efficacy of his tackling, sure, he's not a big guy and that tells sometimes, but there's nothing suggesting a lack of defensive bottle.

Yes, badly worded after a long day. Not questioning his bravery but he was obviously targeted and Wales seemed to make a lot of ground down his channel

Yup they made him make a lot of tackles and made a lot of ground through him. He should've gone low more often.

I know lots of modern defences often aim to lock the ball up rather than stop the man making ground, but it feels like we make that a priority more than others and as such do cede a lot of ground when defending . Especially when tasking our backs, none of whom are particularly sizeable, with the task.

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:59 am

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:05 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:58 am

That sort of absolute bollocks makes it seem that you simply don't like him. You can criticise the efficacy of his tackling, sure, he's not a big guy and that tells sometimes, but there's nothing suggesting a lack of defensive bottle.

Yes, badly worded after a long day. Not questioning his bravery but he was obviously targeted and Wales seemed to make a lot of ground down his channel

Yup they made him make a lot of tackles and made a lot of ground through him. He should've gone low more often.

I didn't notice any glaring missed tackles by Smith. He doesn't appear to be a turnstile in defence.

SaintK wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:44 am

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:59 am

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:05 am

Yes, badly worded after a long day. Not questioning his bravery but he was obviously targeted and Wales seemed to make a lot of ground down his channel

Yup they made him make a lot of tackles and made a lot of ground through him. He should've gone low more often.

I didn't notice any glaring missed tackles by Smith. He doesn't appear to be a turnstile in defence.

He's not a turnstile, but you just missed them.

I normally rewatch England games the next day, you miss a bit being down at the pub.

Fuck that today

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:06 pm

SaintK wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:44 am

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:59 am

Yup they made him make a lot of tackles and made a lot of ground through him. He should've gone low more often.

I didn't notice any glaring missed tackles by Smith. He doesn't appear to be a turnstile in defence.

He's not a turnstile, but you just missed them.

Was probably chuntering away a nd moaning because we weren't 20 points ahead the whole game

Strikes me England just need someone like Tompkins. He's never going to threaten the greatest ever lists but runs the hard lines you need a 13 to make. How much harm has being caused by waiting for Manu to get fit?

What the fuck is the England attack coach doing? The midfield offered the square root of zero threat. The wings were completely redundant, Nowell might as well not have been on the pitch.

There is just so much not functioning with this team, i dont really understand what they are trying to achieve.

I watched the Worcs Quins game, the way the Quins forwards presented the balls after a tackle alliwed Care to just do whst he wanted. England forwards it was an absolute mess in this space slowing Randall right down as he tried to get the ball away.

I know they won but i just feel so meh after this game.

Slade/Daly did not work at all unfortunately. Most of our best with came with Smith using the inside ball or making a break / half break himself. Malins and Smith always seem to dovetail well together when they interact directly, but outside of that Malins was largely on cleanup duty (also made a couple of big fuck ups iirc). Nowell was a liability in defence and didn't do enough with the ball to justify the faith in him. Steward was good.

ASMO wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:51 pm What the fuck is the England attack coach doing? The midfield offered the square root of zero threat. The wings were completely redundant, Nowell might as well not have been on the pitch.

There is just so much not functioning with this team, i dont really understand what they are trying to achieve.

I watched the Worcs Quins game, the way the Quins forwards presented the balls after a tackle alliwed Care to just do whst he wanted. England forwards it was an absolute mess in this space slowing Randall right down as he tried to get the ball away.

I know they won but i just feel so meh after this game.

They probably trained all week with the expectation that Tuilagi would be running crash balls all afternoon, and every planned set move also involved Tuilagi getting over the gain line. As soon as he was replaced by an out of position Slade and the empty shirt that is Daly, they had nothing to offer in attack.

For Ireland and France England should play Atkinson at 12. He may not be an international quality 12, but at least he can run hard and straight, and challenge the defence. Radwan for Nowell would also add some sorely-missed pace to the England back line.

Hard to argue re: attack. Tompkins is a fairly average international player but he does a job well and did give Wales some go forward ball. Daly’s decline is sad to watch, he’s miles off the pace. Randall’s pace was nice to see and it seemed to have rubbed off a bit on Youngs as well, who tbf did his job fairly well.

Essentially Smith can step and weave all he wants but if the oppo don’t have to worry about what’s happening with the centres then we’re not going to get far.
Let’s exclude Italy - we scored off a close range scrum vs Scotland and off a Welsh mistake. That’s it. Something isn’t clicking and waiting for Manu to come in and breathe fire isn’t viable long term, even were he to storm through Ireland and France

Ireland and France are going to run up big scores against this team.

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:55 pm Slade/Daly did not work at all unfortunately. Most of our best with came with Smith using the inside ball or making a break / half break himself. Malins and Smith always seem to dovetail well together when they interact directly, but outside of that Malins was largely on cleanup duty (also made a couple of big fuck ups iirc). Nowell was a liability in defence and didn't do enough with the ball to justify the faith in him. Steward was good.

I’m afraid you’re all wrong because Walrus had Nowell down as one of the highlights of the England team.

I mean he also claimed Falatau as the best No8 ever to play the game so it’s hard to disagree with him

Interesting little comment in a Guardian article about England’s progress in 6N today.

“Scotland’s Mike Adamson … has now awarded 50 penalties in two Six Nations games this year, and as an assistant referee for the [England] Ireland game, the odds would suggest he could yet be a central figure again.”

Lobby wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:47 pm Interesting little comment in a Guardian article about England’s progress in 6N today.

“Scotland’s Mike Adamson … has now awarded 50 penalties in two Six Nations games this year, and as an assistant referee for the [England] Ireland game, the odds would suggest he could yet be a central figure again.”

When will the Ref's panel finally realise this man is not fit to referee professional rugby.

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 7:57 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:55 pm Slade/Daly did not work at all unfortunately. Most of our best with came with Smith using the inside ball or making a break / half break himself. Malins and Smith always seem to dovetail well together when they interact directly, but outside of that Malins was largely on cleanup duty (also made a couple of big fuck ups iirc). Nowell was a liability in defence and didn't do enough with the ball to justify the faith in him. Steward was good.

I’m afraid you’re all wrong because Walrus had Nowell down as one of the highlights of the England team.

I mean he also claimed Falatau as the best No8 ever to play the game so it’s hard to disagree with him

I don't actually know how much rugby Nowell has played on the left. he's often going to be exposed for pace, that puts pressure on his positioning choices, and that's made harder again out of position. he did do some positive things, but as with many it was too much of a mix

ASMO wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:59 pm

Lobby wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:47 pm Interesting little comment in a Guardian article about England’s progress in 6N today.

“Scotland’s Mike Adamson … has now awarded 50 penalties in two Six Nations games this year, and as an assistant referee for the [England] Ireland game, the odds would suggest he could yet be a central figure again.”

When will the Ref's panel finally realise this man is not fit to referee professional rugby.

It's f***king tokenism at its worst. Same problem with the Italian ref for the Sco v Fra U20 game on Friday. She was clueless but was there because there has to be an Italian ref in the comp.

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:55 pm Slade/Daly did not work at all unfortunately. Most of our best with came with Smith using the inside ball or making a break / half break himself. Malins and Smith always seem to dovetail well together when they interact directly, but outside of that Malins was largely on cleanup duty (also made a couple of big fuck ups iirc). Nowell was a liability in defence and didn't do enough with the ball to justify the faith in him. Steward was good.

I may have this wrong but it looks to me like Jones is playing his centres to the same game plan as if Tuilagi was there.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:12 pm

ASMO wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:59 pm

Lobby wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:47 pm Interesting little comment in a Guardian article about England’s progress in 6N today.

“Scotland’s Mike Adamson … has now awarded 50 penalties in two Six Nations games this year, and as an assistant referee for the [England] Ireland game, the odds would suggest he could yet be a central figure again.”

When will the Ref's panel finally realise this man is not fit to referee professional rugby.

It's f***king tokenism at its worst. Same problem with the Italian ref for the Sco v Fra U20 game on Friday. She was clueless but was there because there has to be an Italian ref in the comp.

Isn't he the first Scottish ref for fucking years? I said somewhere earlier that I'm not sure why we are using the 6N as a testing ground for refs, it should have the best, full stop. Let refs get experience in the Autumn internationals where no one really cares.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:12 pm

ASMO wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:59 pm

Lobby wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:47 pm Interesting little comment in a Guardian article about England’s progress in 6N today.

“Scotland’s Mike Adamson … has now awarded 50 penalties in two Six Nations games this year, and as an assistant referee for the [England] Ireland game, the odds would suggest he could yet be a central figure again.”

When will the Ref's panel finally realise this man is not fit to referee professional rugby.

It's f***king tokenism at its worst. Same problem with the Italian ref for the Sco v Fra U20 game on Friday. She was clueless but was there because there has to be an Italian ref in the comp.

Lots of U20 refs aren't great. It's a development tournament for them as well.

There's about three refs you find just barely acceptable and you loathe the rest. Perhaps the refs aren't the problem and the laws are.

Slick wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:16 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:12 pm

ASMO wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:59 pm

When will the Ref's panel finally realise this man is not fit to referee professional rugby.

It's f***king tokenism at its worst. Same problem with the Italian ref for the Sco v Fra U20 game on Friday. She was clueless but was there because there has to be an Italian ref in the comp.

Isn't he the first Scottish ref for fucking years? I said somewhere earlier that I'm not sure why we are using the 6N as a testing ground for refs, it should have the best, full stop. Let refs get experience in the Autumn internationals where no one really cares.

I can't even recall who the last one to officiate an intl match of any kind was

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 7:57 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:55 pm Slade/Daly did not work at all unfortunately. Most of our best with came with Smith using the inside ball or making a break / half break himself. Malins and Smith always seem to dovetail well together when they interact directly, but outside of that Malins was largely on cleanup duty (also made a couple of big fuck ups iirc). Nowell was a liability in defence and didn't do enough with the ball to justify the faith in him. Steward was good.

I’m afraid you’re all wrong because Walrus had Nowell down as one of the highlights of the England team.

I mean he also claimed Falatau as the best No8 ever to play the game so it’s hard to disagree with him

I am convinced the Walrus watches every game while high on crack, he sees things literally nobody else watching the game ever sees.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:33 pm

Slick wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:16 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:12 pm

It's f***king tokenism at its worst. Same problem with the Italian ref for the Sco v Fra U20 game on Friday. She was clueless but was there because there has to be an Italian ref in the comp.

Isn't he the first Scottish ref for fucking years? I said somewhere earlier that I'm not sure why we are using the 6N as a testing ground for refs, it should have the best, full stop. Let refs get experience in the Autumn internationals where no one really cares.

I can't even recall who the last one to officiate an intl match of any kind was

I would take Hollie Davidson over Adamson, she is a far better ref.

ASMO wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:10 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:33 pm

Slick wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:16 pm

Isn't he the first Scottish ref for fucking years? I said somewhere earlier that I'm not sure why we are using the 6N as a testing ground for refs, it should have the best, full stop. Let refs get experience in the Autumn internationals where no one really cares.

I can't even recall who the last one to officiate an intl match of any kind was

I would take Hollie Davidson over Adamson, she is a far better ref.

Yup, she is the best Scottish ref

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 6:47 pm

salanya wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 6:43 pm How's that not a yellow?!

Position on the field, not preventing a clear linebreak. Hardly a controversial decision I'd have thought. Worse deliberate knock ons than that get the penalty only treatment.

Tbf to Lawes that ball just hit his hand he didn’t seem to me trying to grab it.

Lady P wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:32 pm Also, how much did they struggle with MOTM?! Not sure it should have been Smith.

Dombrandt was clearly MOTM

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:33 pm

Slick wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:16 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:12 pm

It's f***king tokenism at its worst. Same problem with the Italian ref for the Sco v Fra U20 game on Friday. She was clueless but was there because there has to be an Italian ref in the comp.

Isn't he the first Scottish ref for fucking years? I said somewhere earlier that I'm not sure why we are using the 6N as a testing ground for refs, it should have the best, full stop. Let refs get experience in the Autumn internationals where no one really cares.

I can't even recall who the last one to officiate an intl match of any kind was

A Scottish ref retired a couple of years ago due to online abuse iirc