NPR

OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:20 pm Those who wants NieNaber out, please give the suggestions who should replace him?

Scott Robinson
John Dobson

SA will never employ a foreign national coach.

John Dobson will be perfect for the job. He come through the sucrures from UCT to Stormers and had success on every level. Winning Varsity Cup, CC junior levels and URC. He deal with the kakkest SA politics and get the most out of every single player.

His dad was a SA Rugby legend. He grew up with rugby religion.


Problem is, he is white Soutie.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:41 am John Dobson


Problem is, he is white Soutie.

Why is it a problem?
Rassie is a white Dutchman.
Nienaber is a white Dutchman.

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:31 am SA will never employ a foreign national coach.

I don't think we're far from it happening. We've already had Ian Mac, and we've also had Eddie Jones and Felix Jones.

But I think we have to prepare for the Stick era after the 2023 RWC, so perhaps after that.

Personally I don't care if they're local or not. I just want the best person, and I think the standard of coaching is much higher overseas.

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:54 am

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:31 am SA will never employ a foreign national coach.

I don't think we're far from it happening. We've already had Ian Mac, and we've also had Eddie Jones and Felix Jones.

But I think we have to prepare for the Stick era after the 2023 RWC, so perhaps after that.

Personally I don't care if they're local or not. I just want the best person, and I think the standard of coaching is much higher overseas.

As consultants, never national head coach. Mac was the exception to the rule, a Zimbo who lasted barely a year. He was also before we had BBBEE in this country.

The bolded, I've heard this a lot over the last few years on here and PR and I never understood how we get to undersell our coaches so. Coaches who've won us three World Cups and numerous trophies over the years. Our coaches have won us more WC than all the NH teams combined. We have always been one of the top teams in WR, we are world renowned as a very good rugby playing Nation, but our coaches are shit?

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:49 am The bolded, I've heard this a lot over the last few years on here and PR and I never understood how we get to undersell our coaches so. Coaches who've won us three World Cups and numerous trophies over the years. Our coaches have won us more WC than all the NH teams combined. We have always been one of the top teams in WR, we are world renowned as a very good rugby playing Nation, but our coaches are shit?

Jake White and Rassie Erasmus are the exceptions to the rule. But that's only two our of a large pool.

I think this is evident in the lack of silverware we won in Super Rugby over the years, despite the ridiculous amount of talent we have always had at our disposal.

Also, look how many average players go overseas and turn into much, much better players. Jasper Wiese, Andre Estherhuizen, Tyrone Green, Raymond Rhule, Jason Jenkins, Faf de Klerk, Courtnall Skosan, the list goes on.
Not to mention so many who went on to be capped by other countries, like David Ribbans, Rory Kockett, Brad Barrit.

If we export so many players, why are our coaches not in the same demand? Very few have made it abroad, I can only think of Johann van Graan who is slowly starting to turn things around at Bath.

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:58 am

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:49 am The bolded, I've heard this a lot over the last few years on here and PR and I never understood how we get to undersell our coaches so. Coaches who've won us three World Cups and numerous trophies over the years. Our coaches have won us more WC than all the NH teams combined. We have always been one of the top teams in WR, we are world renowned as a very good rugby playing Nation, but our coaches are shit?

Jake White and Rassie Erasmus are the exceptions to the rule. But that's only two our of a large pool.

I think this is evident in the lack of silverware we won in Super Rugby over the years, despite the ridiculous amount of talent we have always had at our disposal.

Also, look how many average players go overseas and turn into much, much better players. Jasper Wiese, Andre Estherhuizen, Tyrone Green, Raymond Rhule, Jason Jenkins, Faf de Klerk, Courtnall Skosan, the list goes on.
Not to mention so many who went on to be capped by other countries, like David Ribbans, Rory Kockett, Brad Barrit.

If we export so many players, why are our coaches not in the same demand? Very few have made it abroad, I can only think of Johann van Graan who is slowly starting to turn things around at Bath.

You are comparing club with test rugby? Do you think these clubs just bought these players knowing they are shit and hoping they can improve them?

Players don't learn playing rugby at the apex of their careers. They are thought how to pass, tackle, run and kick very early on. Coaches on a senior level don't teach the basics of the game. Their jobs are more motivational.

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:49 am

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:54 am

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:31 am SA will never employ a foreign national coach.

I don't think we're far from it happening. We've already had Ian Mac, and we've also had Eddie Jones and Felix Jones.

But I think we have to prepare for the Stick era after the 2023 RWC, so perhaps after that.

Personally I don't care if they're local or not. I just want the best person, and I think the standard of coaching is much higher overseas.

As consultants, never national head coach. Mac was the exception to the rule, a Zimbo who lasted barely a year. He was also before we had BBBEE in this country.

The bolded, I've heard this a lot over the last few years on here and PR and I never understood how we get to undersell our coaches so. Coaches who've won us three World Cups and numerous trophies over the years. Our coaches have won us more WC than all the NH teams combined. We have always been one of the top teams in WR, we are world renowned as a very good rugby playing Nation, but our coaches are shit?

We have a very few very good coaches and an abundance of pretty crap coaches.
Straulie
Coetzee
Muir
Fleck
Du Preez
P De Villiers
Naka Drotske
The current $harks coach
Pote Human

Chilli wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:49 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:41 am John Dobson


Problem is, he is white Soutie.

Why is it a problem?
Rassie is a white Dutchman.
Nienaber is a white Dutchman.

The Soutie part is only to get your attention.

My opinion is that it will be Stick and Bafana next.

Dobson the merit selection. He tried the Rassie gameplan when he started and switch to the WP one with great success. RasNaber woke up and look like (I hope so) is using more the Stormers recepy with Willemse and Libbok in 10. Hope Gelants new club get his visa sorted when the WC starts next year. With our pack of forwards and with Gelant, Libbok, Willemse, Willie distribution to Am, Arendse, Moodie, Kolbey, Mapimpi. That will be lekker to watch.

Chilli wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:56 am

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:49 am

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:54 am

I don't think we're far from it happening. We've already had Ian Mac, and we've also had Eddie Jones and Felix Jones.

But I think we have to prepare for the Stick era after the 2023 RWC, so perhaps after that.

Personally I don't care if they're local or not. I just want the best person, and I think the standard of coaching is much higher overseas.

As consultants, never national head coach. Mac was the exception to the rule, a Zimbo who lasted barely a year. He was also before we had BBBEE in this country.

The bolded, I've heard this a lot over the last few years on here and PR and I never understood how we get to undersell our coaches so. Coaches who've won us three World Cups and numerous trophies over the years. Our coaches have won us more WC than all the NH teams combined. We have always been one of the top teams in WR, we are world renowned as a very good rugby playing Nation, but our coaches are shit?

We have a very few very good coaches and an abundance of pretty crap coaches.
Straulie
Coetzee
Muir
Fleck
Du Preez
P De Villiers
Naka Drotske
The current $harks coach
Pote Human

Even with all those shit coaches (note not many of the names in your list coached on a national level) we are still considered one of the strongest teams in the world. Not one country will say "ag, we're just facing the Bok's this weekend, it will be a walk in the park" except for when Coetzee was coaching. That poes really did a number on Springbok rugby.

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:54 am Do you think these clubs just bought these players knowing they are shit and hoping they can improve them?

They saw potential, and with the right coaching and management environment they have thrived. They know they can improve them.

Otherwise how do you explain why these players were so average when they played in South Africa? Take Tyrone Green for example; nobody even noticed when the left the Lions. A few months later, he's a premiership player and one of the best players in England.

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:54 am Players don't learn playing rugby at the apex of their careers. They are thought how to pass, tackle, run and kick very early on. Coaches on a senior level don't teach the basics of the game. Their jobs are more motivational.

I agree to a point. Take Andre Estherhuizen; he left South Africa as a one-dimensional bosh-merchant. A year at Harlequins and he's a 12 who is known for his off-loading and distributing skills.

You can go back as far as Percy Montgomery. When he came back from Wales he was a different player, and he never would have gone on to win a world cup medal. All thanks to the right coaching and management.

In South Africa we don't take this seriously. We still think ex-players make good coaches. Apart from Dobson, I don't see one local coach putting their hand up for higher honours either with the Boks or abroad.

I'll add, our shitty coached teams are holding their own in the URC. Even if you say we didn't win much silverware in SR, we were always there or there abouts. You have to understand that the Kiwi's are for most part considered to be the best in the world. Beating them will never be just an easy thing.

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:54 am

Players don't learn playing rugby at the apex of their careers. They are thought how to pass, tackle, run and kick very early on. Coaches on a senior level don't teach the basics of the game. Their jobs are more motivational.

I tend to think the exact opposite, in that it's always about teaching the basics. The motivational part is constantly dressing it up so the players don't lose too much interest and focus on other things. Sure there's an awful lot of detail swirling around at top level you'd never see lower down, but the basics underpin all

I would argue that we do not have enough high quality specialist coaches. For me a head coach/manager is just as good as the team he assembles and manage around him. And unfortunately I do not think we have enough of those guys that do most of the "dirty" work and who helps to set up systems, etc together with the head coach. The other problem is that not all specialist coaches translate well into head coaches/managers. When a person suddenly have to pay attention to every aspect of a team's wellbeing as well as manage training. game days, etc they cannot always translate what they can do when focusing on a specific aspect of the game. It is the same in business, not all good and skillful people will become good managers.
I personally think this might be the case with Nienaber, he was a great defensive coach, but not good at managing every aspect of the team, and I do not think he has a team around him hat compliments his weak points.
I do worry about stick becoming the next head coach, he should go and coach a provincial team or age group team for a few years because the small snippets of him coaching the A team looks very worrying.

Tyrone Green; Depending on who you ask, they'll tell you that he was already a very good player before he left.

Andre Estherhuizen; You mean to tell me you guys were talking bullshit way back, when you told us that he was an off-loading rugby god when he was playing for the tjarks. Also, a bosh-merchant is someone who always seeks contact in my opinion. What he does after he goes into contact does not detract from that.

Percy Montgomery; The Welsh really fixed his kicking, Ill agree on that. I wish some players today could simplify their approach like he did, 3 steps and over. He was still a pea hearted pissy though, who benefited by being part of a very strong Bok team.

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:49 am Tyrone Green; Depending on who you ask, they'll tell you that he was already a very good player before he left.

Andre Estherhuizen; You mean to tell me you guys were talking bullshit way back, when you told us that he was an off-loading rugby god when he was playing for the tjarks. Also, a bosh-merchant is someone who always seeks contact in my opinion. What he does after he goes into contact does not detract from that.

Percy Montgomery; The Welsh really fixed his kicking, Ill agree on that. I wish some players today could simplify their approach like he did, 3 steps and over. He was still a pea hearted pissy though, who benefited by being part of a very strong Bok team.

I watch a lot of English Premiership. I always lookout for new Saffa arrivals, and the difference after a few weeks of proper coaching and management is obvious.

Do you honestly think Wiese would be the Bok 8 if he didn't move to Leicester? Same for Hanro Liebenberg, he's a much better player and I wouldn't be surprised if he is on the Bok radar soon.

But I can see you're not going to change your mind on this one.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:12 am

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:54 am

Players don't learn playing rugby at the apex of their careers. They are thought how to pass, tackle, run and kick very early on. Coaches on a senior level don't teach the basics of the game. Their jobs are more motivational.

I tend to think the exact opposite, in that it's always about teaching the basics. The motivational part is constantly dressing it up so the players don't lose too much interest and focus on other things. Sure there's an awful lot of detail swirling around at top level you'd never see lower down, but the basics underpin all

No matter how talented a player you are. If you do not train and practice with the team, you will probably fail. And there is no better way to coordinate your actions than by practice.

5o if we beat England. Will everyone be satisfied with a 2 out of 6 result for the Autumn tests

Taking the SA A results also into account

Sards wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:20 pm 5o if we beat England. Will everyone be satisfied with a 2 out of 6 result for the Autumn tests

Taking the SA A results also into account

The SA team was coach by your chosen coach. . The 2 losses was against the two top teams with less then 5 points. If we beat England, we couldn't ask for better.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:13 pm

Sards wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:20 pm 5o if we beat England. Will everyone be satisfied with a 2 out of 6 result for the Autumn tests

Taking the SA A results also into account

The SA team was coach by your chosen coach. . The 2 losses was against the two top teams with less then 5 points. If we beat England, we couldn't ask for better.

you can't be serious

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:01 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:49 am Tyrone Green; Depending on who you ask, they'll tell you that he was already a very good player before he left.

Andre Estherhuizen; You mean to tell me you guys were talking bullshit way back, when you told us that he was an off-loading rugby god when he was playing for the tjarks. Also, a bosh-merchant is someone who always seeks contact in my opinion. What he does after he goes into contact does not detract from that.

Percy Montgomery; The Welsh really fixed his kicking, Ill agree on that. I wish some players today could simplify their approach like he did, 3 steps and over. He was still a pea hearted pissy though, who benefited by being part of a very strong Bok team.

I watch a lot of English Premiership. I always lookout for new Saffa arrivals, and the difference after a few weeks of proper coaching and management is obvious.

Do you honestly think Wiese would be the Bok 8 if he didn't move to Leicester? Same for Hanro Liebenberg, he's a much better player and I wouldn't be surprised if he is on the Bok radar soon.

But I can see you're not going to change your mind on this one.

You can't compare what you see in the English Leugues with what you see in SA. Our teams don't compete there as yet. How would you know if the player won't be as good if he played for the Sharks or Bulls or whoever in the same leugue?

Sure, it might be expected that the player utilize a different skill set in diffent why. It does not mean that he was not taught that skill from an early age.

You have to understand that when you say things like SA coaches are kak, you are implying that the whole development structure from schools to uni to club to national level is kak. No one would invest in SA players if that was the case.

Some really arrogant guys on here. The thinking that we are world beaters and we should never lose to any other team ever is insulting to other teams. Do you really think that other teams can't improve and get better? It's when you beat these teams that matter not how many times you lost to them.

And you can't lump in SA A games with Bok games. It's an hodge podge experimental team that have hardly ever played together as a team. It's a developmental side. They are bound to lose games. Their job was never to win anything. Their job is to show the national coaches what they have to work with in case the top dogs get injured

Sards wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:20 pm 5o if we beat England. Will everyone be satisfied with a 2 out of 6 result for the Autumn tests

Taking the SA A results also into account

No.

Apologies for my spelling. I never post from home and have to post from my phone. It's a bit shit posting from a phone or perhaps it's just my phone.

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:01 pm

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:01 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:49 am Tyrone Green; Depending on who you ask, they'll tell you that he was already a very good player before he left.

Andre Estherhuizen; You mean to tell me you guys were talking bullshit way back, when you told us that he was an off-loading rugby god when he was playing for the tjarks. Also, a bosh-merchant is someone who always seeks contact in my opinion. What he does after he goes into contact does not detract from that.

Percy Montgomery; The Welsh really fixed his kicking, Ill agree on that. I wish some players today could simplify their approach like he did, 3 steps and over. He was still a pea hearted pissy though, who benefited by being part of a very strong Bok team.

I watch a lot of English Premiership. I always lookout for new Saffa arrivals, and the difference after a few weeks of proper coaching and management is obvious.

Do you honestly think Wiese would be the Bok 8 if he didn't move to Leicester? Same for Hanro Liebenberg, he's a much better player and I wouldn't be surprised if he is on the Bok radar soon.

But I can see you're not going to change your mind on this one.

You can't compare what you see in the English Leugues with what you see in SA. Our teams don't compete there as yet. How would you know if the player won't be as good if he played for the Sharks or Bulls or whoever in the same leugue?

Sure, it might be expected that the player utilize a different skill set in diffent why. It does not mean that he was not taught that skill from an early age.

You have to understand that when you say things like SA coaches are kak, you are implying that the whole development structure from schools to uni to club to national level is kak. No one would invest in SA players if that was the case.

AJ, yes you can.
Look at how poor the standard of rugby played at the start of the CC and URC was. Highly paid professional rugby players couldn't pass or catch.
Compare that the how Leinster or most of the EPL clubs were playing. Our basic skills are shit.
It can be that, because we produce so many good players that coaches can't be bothered to teach skills properly. They just discard players and replace them with another player.

Fact is on 2007 we had Eddie Jones as a skills coach. In 2019 we had Felix Jones as a skills coach. I'm sure if there were equally good local coaches they would have been used.

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:16 pm Some really arrogant guys on here. The thinking that we are world beaters and we should never lose to any other team ever is insulting to other teams. Do you really think that other teams can't improve and get better? It's when you beat these teams that matter not how many times you lost to them.

And you can't lump in SA A games with Bok games. It's an hodge podge experimental team that have hardly ever played together as a team. It's a developmental side. They are bound to lose games. Their job was never to win anything. Their job is to show the national coaches what they have to work with in case the top dogs get injured

Losing to a better team while playing well hurts but is accepted. Losing to Japan and Italy or losing to any country while playing poor quality rugby is not acceptable.

Tell me, how long did the current SA A team spend together before leaving for Europe? How long did they train together in Europe before losing to Ulster or Munster without any of their internationalplayers? Then how much time did they have to train together before losing to the Bristol Bears B team?

These are highly paid professionals.

Chilli wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:27 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:01 pm

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:01 pm

I watch a lot of English Premiership. I always lookout for new Saffa arrivals, and the difference after a few weeks of proper coaching and management is obvious.

Do you honestly think Wiese would be the Bok 8 if he didn't move to Leicester? Same for Hanro Liebenberg, he's a much better player and I wouldn't be surprised if he is on the Bok radar soon.

But I can see you're not going to change your mind on this one.

You can't compare what you see in the English Leugues with what you see in SA. Our teams don't compete there as yet. How would you know if the player won't be as good if he played for the Sharks or Bulls or whoever in the same leugue?

Sure, it might be expected that the player utilize a different skill set in diffent why. It does not mean that he was not taught that skill from an early age.

You have to understand that when you say things like SA coaches are kak, you are implying that the whole development structure from schools to uni to club to national level is kak. No one would invest in SA players if that was the case.

AJ, yes you can.
Look at how poor the standard of rugby played at the start of the CC and URC was. Highly paid professional rugby players couldn't pass or catch.
Compare that the how Leinster or most of the EPL clubs were playing. Our basic skills are shit.
It can be that, because we produce so many good players that coaches can't be bothered to teach skills properly. They just discard players and replace them with another player.

Fact is on 2007 we had Eddie Jones as a skills coach. In 2019 we had Felix Jones as a skills coach. I'm sure if there were equally good local coaches they would have been used.

It's a completely different ball game up North than down here. You are asking players to play the same regardless of where, against who or at what level they are playing.

Chilli wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:38 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:16 pm Some really arrogant guys on here. The thinking that we are world beaters and we should never lose to any other team ever is insulting to other teams. Do you really think that other teams can't improve and get better? It's when you beat these teams that matter not how many times you lost to them.

And you can't lump in SA A games with Bok games. It's an hodge podge experimental team that have hardly ever played together as a team. It's a developmental side. They are bound to lose games. Their job was never to win anything. Their job is to show the national coaches what they have to work with in case the top dogs get injured

Losing to a better team while playing well hurts but is accepted. Losing to Japan and Italy or losing to any country while playing poor quality rugby is not acceptable.

Tell me, how long did the current SA A team spend together before leaving for Europe? How long did they train together in Europe before losing to Ulster or Munster without any of their internationalplayers? Then how much time did they have to train together before losing to the Bristol Bears B team?

These are highly paid professionals.

I'm sure you can tell us how long they were practicing together. Thing is there's a difference to practicing and actually playing.

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:42 pm

Chilli wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:38 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:16 pm Some really arrogant guys on here. The thinking that we are world beaters and we should never lose to any other team ever is insulting to other teams. Do you really think that other teams can't improve and get better? It's when you beat these teams that matter not how many times you lost to them.

And you can't lump in SA A games with Bok games. It's an hodge podge experimental team that have hardly ever played together as a team. It's a developmental side. They are bound to lose games. Their job was never to win anything. Their job is to show the national coaches what they have to work with in case the top dogs get injured

Losing to a better team while playing well hurts but is accepted. Losing to Japan and Italy or losing to any country while playing poor quality rugby is not acceptable.

Tell me, how long did the current SA A team spend together before leaving for Europe? How long did they train together in Europe before losing to Ulster or Munster without any of their internationalplayers? Then how much time did they have to train together before losing to the Bristol Bears B team?

These are highly paid professionals.

I'm sure you can tell us how long they were practicing together. Thing is there's a difference to practicing and actually playing.

I couldn't, but they had plenty of time together.

You understand that they never played and lost against a full strength Ulster or Munster? The Bristol Bears are on the bottom half of the table and bear SA A with very much a B team.

The coaching of the SA A team was particularly crap.

You guys are forgetting something. Every south african coach has a clause written into his contract that states he must always, without exception, fuck around his most talented players and which position they play in.

Good at 15? He's a fly half surely. Great on the wing? Nah coach knows better, he's a born 13. Lock? Backrow? Whatever its like vingerbord. You can just move things around. Scrumhalf? I'm gonna make him a great centre. 15? 10? I've coached Chappies league long enough to know it don't matter. I spoke to his dad when he played u/7 bulletjie rugby so I know he's actually a flank.

Chilli wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:47 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:42 pm

Chilli wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:38 pm
Losing to a better team while playing well hurts but is accepted. Losing to Japan and Italy or losing to any country while playing poor quality rugby is not acceptable.

Tell me, how long did the current SA A team spend together before leaving for Europe? How long did they train together in Europe before losing to Ulster or Munster without any of their internationalplayers? Then how much time did they have to train together before losing to the Bristol Bears B team?

These are highly paid professionals.

I'm sure you can tell us how long they were practicing together. Thing is there's a difference to practicing and actually playing.

I couldn't, but they had plenty of time together.

You understand that they never played and lost against a full strength Ulster or Munster? The Bristol Bears are on the bottom half of the table and bear SA A with very much a B team.

The coaching of the SA A team was particularly crap.

Do you reckon the players in that team was not good enough to beat the Bristol Bears B team? Don't they have the skills? They were running around like af kop honders, why? Are they shit players? Some of them were those improved European players. Did they forget what they learned from their fancy pants English coaches?

dabooldawg wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:06 pm You guys are forgetting something. Every south african coach has a clause written into his contract that states he must always, without exception, fuck around his most talented players and which position they play in.

Good at 15? He's a fly half surely. Great on the wing? Nah coach knows better, he's a born 13. Lock? Backrow? Whatever its like vingerbord. You can just move things around. Scrumhalf? I'm gonna make him a great centre. 15? 10? I've coached Chappies league long enough to know it don't matter. I spoke to his dad when he played u/7 bulletjie rugby so I know he's actually a flank.

The French played a loose forward in the back line against us. He was one of their better backs on that day.

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:17 pm

Chilli wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:47 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:42 pm
I'm sure you can tell us how long they were practicing together. Thing is there's a difference to practicing and actually playing.

I couldn't, but they had plenty of time together.

You understand that they never played and lost against a full strength Ulster or Munster? The Bristol Bears are on the bottom half of the table and bear SA A with very much a B team.

The coaching of the SA A team was particularly crap.

Do you reckon the players in that team was not good enough to beat the Bristol Bears B team? Don't they have the skills? They were running around like af kop honders, why? Are they shit players? Some of them were those improved European players. Did they forget what they learned from their fancy pants English coaches?

They played terrible rugby snd deserved to be beaten.

You have a problem with English coaches?

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:19 pm

dabooldawg wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:06 pm You guys are forgetting something. Every south african coach has a clause written into his contract that states he must always, without exception, fuck around his most talented players and which position they play in.

Good at 15? He's a fly half surely. Great on the wing? Nah coach knows better, he's a born 13. Lock? Backrow? Whatever its like vingerbord. You can just move things around. Scrumhalf? I'm gonna make him a great centre. 15? 10? I've coached Chappies league long enough to know it don't matter. I spoke to his dad when he played u/7 bulletjie rugby so I know he's actually a flank.

The French played a loose forward in the back line against us. He was one of their better backs on that day.

When was this?

Rassie and Nienaber are stuck on a team and a game plan

My point being. Nothing is going to change with them in charge. I feel for Stick. Ok I don't rate him as a coach personally. But Rassie ran away from him and left him on his own to fend for himself and ran to baby sit Nienaber. Where else in world rugby does a DOR concentrate so intensely on 1 team only. It's not his job to babysit Nienaber. His job is to sort out all our rugby structures and that's all falling apart.
We are vulnerable across 7s and 15s. It's getting embarrassing.
If Nienaber needs someone to hold his hand why the fok is he coach.
And their obsession with Jack of all trades and ref bashing is a huge problem.

Losing sux. We all hate it. But the Bokke aren’t McAwe’s ABs. We lose regularly. Accept it.

I’ll be satisfied this month if we blood some useful players like Libbok and pass the ball a bit more. Small things will make a big difference.

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:32 pm Losing sux. We all hate it. But the Bokke aren’t McAwe’s ABs. We lose regularly. Accept it.

I’ll be satisfied this if we blood some useful players like Libbok and pass the ball a bit more. Small things will make a big difference.

Yeah, but we don't. If it wasnt for injury of Pollard and Elton snorting cocaine from the dietician's chest, we wouldnt have seen Libbok at 10 for the boks at all. And Saturday the coaches will try to further transform willemse into a Frans Steyn 2.0 supersub for the RWC and start him again at 10. They think he is setteling in fine into the flyhalf role. Well then...

For what it's worth, you can't accuse the Boks of having the same gameplan since 2019. We are definitely experimenting more and running with the ball more.

Chilli wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:39 pm

average joe wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:19 pm

dabooldawg wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:06 pm You guys are forgetting something. Every south african coach has a clause written into his contract that states he must always, without exception, fuck around his most talented players and which position they play in.

Good at 15? He's a fly half surely. Great on the wing? Nah coach knows better, he's a born 13. Lock? Backrow? Whatever its like vingerbord. You can just move things around. Scrumhalf? I'm gonna make him a great centre. 15? 10? I've coached Chappies league long enough to know it don't matter. I spoke to his dad when he played u/7 bulletjie rugby so I know he's actually a flank.

The French played a loose forward in the back line against us. He was one of their better backs on that day.

When was this?

Perhaps when we last played them.

I'll recap for you: After PSDT headbutted Jonathan Danty into the stratosphere, the French moved Yoram Moefana from wing to centre and brought on Sekou Macalou as a wing. Macalou is a 1.95 m, 108 kg baby eater that normally plays flank.

Did you even bother to watch that game?