NPR

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:02 am**

Biffer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:44 am
Blackmac wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:04 am England fans surprised that Qataris are upset by their crusader outfits.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -stir.html

I'd be quite happy if the local police found some way to lock these boorish twats up for a few months.
Fuck me, have they actually taken Crusader outfits to the Middle East?

And then complained about being treated badly

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:19 am**

Daft beggars.

It's only a bit of silliness, but I'd suggest not doing anything that relies upon on the Qatari authorities having a sense of humour.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:24 am**

inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:19 am Daft beggars.

It's only a bit of silliness, but I'd suggest not doing anything that relies upon on the Qatari authorities having a sense of humour.

Isn’t there a whole Middle East Islamic thing about our military actions there being the Crusades again? It’s like the Germans coming to Wembley dressed as the Wehrmacht. Ignoring the many centuries in between of course.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:32 am**

GogLais wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:24 am
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:19 am Daft beggars.

It's only a bit of silliness, but I'd suggest not doing anything that relies upon on the Qatari authorities having a sense of humour.
Isn’t there a whole Middle East Islamic thing about our military actions there being the Crusades again? It’s like the Germans coming to Wembley dressed as the Wehrmacht. Ignoring the many centuries in between of course.

I'm hardly surprised when sports fans are completely tin-eared to the perspectives of their hosts, but I can't escalate it from insensitive to anything offensive.

Out of interest, what are your views on Italians wearing togas in the UK? I saw a few at Euro 96. Seems a bit of a closer analogy to the crusades, I'd say the centuries - well, getting on for millennia - in between are quite important, all in all.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:36 am**

inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:32 am
GogLais wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:24 am
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:19 am Daft beggars.

It's only a bit of silliness, but I'd suggest not doing anything that relies upon on the Qatari authorities having a sense of humour.
Isn’t there a whole Middle East Islamic thing about our military actions there being the Crusades again? It’s like the Germans coming to Wembley dressed as the Wehrmacht. Ignoring the many centuries in between of course.
I'm hardly surprised when sports fans are completely tin-eared to the perspectives of their hosts, but I can't escalate it from insensitive to anything offensive.

Out of interest, what are your views on Italians wearing togas in the UK? I saw a few at Euro 96. Seems a bit of a closer analogy to the crusades, I'd say the centuries - well, getting on for millennia - in between are quite important, all in all.

Togas aren’t a military uniform. And also, Rome left us with a legacy which was then built on. If they turned up dressed as centurions, people wouldn’t care. Indeed there’d be some who would compare the legacy that Rome left behind in terms of infrastructure and society that the good old empire folks would try and say the British Empire did all over Africa. That would, however, be fairly tenuous.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:47 am**

Biffer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:36 am
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:32 am
GogLais wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:24 am

Isn’t there a whole Middle East Islamic thing about our military actions there being the Crusades again? It’s like the Germans coming to Wembley dressed as the Wehrmacht. Ignoring the many centuries in between of course.
I'm hardly surprised when sports fans are completely tin-eared to the perspectives of their hosts, but I can't escalate it from insensitive to anything offensive.

Out of interest, what are your views on Italians wearing togas in the UK? I saw a few at Euro 96. Seems a bit of a closer analogy to the crusades, I'd say the centuries - well, getting on for millennia - in between are quite important, all in all.
Togas aren’t a military uniform. And also, Rome left us with a legacy which was then built on. If they turned up dressed as centurions, people wouldn’t care. Indeed there’d be some who would compare the legacy that Rome left behind in terms of infrastructure and society that the good old empire folks would try and say the British Empire did all over Africa. That would, however, be fairly tenuous.

I'm really not sure where good/bad/indifferent comes into anything I posted, but I can assure you the Roman Empire was not good for the inhabitants of the countries they colonised, unless you were one of the Quislings. Arguably not as bad as under the Normans, but not good.

Still, the point is it happened so far into ancient history as to just be part of a historical fabric. The same as the Crusades. And not the same as for the Wehrmacht.

In saying all that, I'd expect anyone with half a brain to realise the Qatari police might not take it in the best humour - they get offended by rainbow hats, after all. And they strike me as people it's best for tourists not to upset.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:12 am**

inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:47 am
Biffer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:36 am
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:32 am

I'm hardly surprised when sports fans are completely tin-eared to the perspectives of their hosts, but I can't escalate it from insensitive to anything offensive.

Out of interest, what are your views on Italians wearing togas in the UK? I saw a few at Euro 96. Seems a bit of a closer analogy to the crusades, I'd say the centuries - well, getting on for millennia - in between are quite important, all in all.
Togas aren’t a military uniform. And also, Rome left us with a legacy which was then built on. If they turned up dressed as centurions, people wouldn’t care. Indeed there’d be some who would compare the legacy that Rome left behind in terms of infrastructure and society that the good old empire folks would try and say the British Empire did all over Africa. That would, however, be fairly tenuous.
I'm really not sure where good/bad/indifferent comes into anything I posted, but I can assure you the Roman Empire was not good for the inhabitants of the countries they colonised, unless you were one of the Quislings. Arguably not as bad as under the Normans, but not good.

Still, the point is it happened so far into ancient history as to just be part of a historical fabric. The same as the Crusades. And not the same as for the Wehrmacht.

In saying all that, I'd expect anyone with half a brain to realise the Qatari police might not take it in the best humour - they get offended by rainbow hats, after all. And they strike me as people it's best for tourists not to upset.

Yes, to try and justify it as some historical assault on the sensibilities of the Arab world just doesn't wash. They just don't have a sense of humour and are looking for any excuse to be outraged. In saying that, it is I guess a cultural thing, so don't wear idiotic costumes. Be happy that folk can wear pretty much what they want where we live and we will join in the joke, I'd rather be like that.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:27 am**

inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:32 am
GogLais wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:24 am
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:19 am Daft beggars.

It's only a bit of silliness, but I'd suggest not doing anything that relies upon on the Qatari authorities having a sense of humour.
Isn’t there a whole Middle East Islamic thing about our military actions there being the Crusades again? It’s like the Germans coming to Wembley dressed as the Wehrmacht. Ignoring the many centuries in between of course.
Out of interest, what are your views on Italians wearing togas in the UK? I saw a few at Euro 96. Seems a bit of a closer analogy to the crusades, I'd say the centuries - well, getting on for millennia - in between are quite important, all in all.

Fair question to which I don’t really have an answer other than what’s already been said,

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:35 am**

Biffer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:36 am
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:32 am
GogLais wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:24 am

Isn’t there a whole Middle East Islamic thing about our military actions there being the Crusades again? It’s like the Germans coming to Wembley dressed as the Wehrmacht. Ignoring the many centuries in between of course.
I'm hardly surprised when sports fans are completely tin-eared to the perspectives of their hosts, but I can't escalate it from insensitive to anything offensive.

Out of interest, what are your views on Italians wearing togas in the UK? I saw a few at Euro 96. Seems a bit of a closer analogy to the crusades, I'd say the centuries - well, getting on for millennia - in between are quite important, all in all.
Togas aren’t a military uniform. And also, Rome left us with a legacy which was then built on. If they turned up dressed as centurions, people wouldn’t care. Indeed there’d be some who would compare the legacy that Rome left behind in terms of infrastructure and society that the good old empire folks would try and say the British Empire did all over Africa. That would, however, be fairly tenuous.

I'd (genuinely) be interested to hear your reasoning on this.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:49 am**

Slick wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:12 am
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:47 am
Biffer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:36 am

Togas aren’t a military uniform. And also, Rome left us with a legacy which was then built on. If they turned up dressed as centurions, people wouldn’t care. Indeed there’d be some who would compare the legacy that Rome left behind in terms of infrastructure and society that the good old empire folks would try and say the British Empire did all over Africa. That would, however, be fairly tenuous.
I'm really not sure where good/bad/indifferent comes into anything I posted, but I can assure you the Roman Empire was not good for the inhabitants of the countries they colonised, unless you were one of the Quislings. Arguably not as bad as under the Normans, but not good.

Still, the point is it happened so far into ancient history as to just be part of a historical fabric. The same as the Crusades. And not the same as for the Wehrmacht.

In saying all that, I'd expect anyone with half a brain to realise the Qatari police might not take it in the best humour - they get offended by rainbow hats, after all. And they strike me as people it's best for tourists not to upset.
Yes, to try and justify it as some historical assault on the sensibilities of the Arab world just doesn't wash. They just don't have a sense of humour and are looking for any excuse to be outraged. In saying that, it is I guess a cultural thing, so don't wear idiotic costumes. Be happy that folk can wear pretty much what they want where we live and we will join in the joke, I'd rather be like that.

There's an article here that explains how the Crusades are taught in today's schools in the Arab Nations https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.ph ... -crusades/

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:57 am**

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:35 am
Biffer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:36 am
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:32 am

I'm hardly surprised when sports fans are completely tin-eared to the perspectives of their hosts, but I can't escalate it from insensitive to anything offensive.

Out of interest, what are your views on Italians wearing togas in the UK? I saw a few at Euro 96. Seems a bit of a closer analogy to the crusades, I'd say the centuries - well, getting on for millennia - in between are quite important, all in all.
Togas aren’t a military uniform. And also, Rome left us with a legacy which was then built on. If they turned up dressed as centurions, people wouldn’t care. Indeed there’d be some who would compare the legacy that Rome left behind in terms of infrastructure and society that the good old empire folks would try and say the British Empire did all over Africa. That would, however, be fairly tenuous.
I'd (genuinely) be interested to hear your reasoning on this.

There’s a view of the Roman Empire where you can look at the legacy of organised government, local administration, roads, aqueducts , etc (it all gets a bit Monty Python) and say there was a lasting positive effect even after they left - several hundred years of occupation had advanced society. Now that’s very much arguable, as most of Europe collapsed when they left, but it was often harking back to Roman times that introduced the larger empires that followed, and on art, architecture, language, law etc. There are still traces of Roman culture in the way European countries operate today. It’s not hard to see pro Empire folks arguing the same for the British Empire - exporting a civil service, administration systems, the concept of disciplined and organised armed forces, railways, architecture, culture etc. There’s also the parallel that the former territories of both fell into disarray and often internal war of course, but that’s a negative parallel they might not want to talk about.

To be clear, I’m not saying I’d argue that, but there are, I think, a fair number who might - the kind of people who might view the British Empire as a bringer of civilisation.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:05 pm**

Biffer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:57 am
Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:35 am
Biffer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:36 am

Togas aren’t a military uniform. And also, Rome left us with a legacy which was then built on. If they turned up dressed as centurions, people wouldn’t care. Indeed there’d be some who would compare the legacy that Rome left behind in terms of infrastructure and society that the good old empire folks would try and say the British Empire did all over Africa. That would, however, be fairly tenuous.
I'd (genuinely) be interested to hear your reasoning on this.
There’s a view of the Roman Empire where you can look at the legacy of organised government, local administration, roads, aqueducts , etc (it all gets a bit Monty Python) and say there was a lasting positive effect even after they left - several hundred years of occupation had advanced society. Now that’s very much arguable, as most of Europe collapsed when they left, but it was often harking back to Roman times that introduced the larger empires that followed, and on art, architecture, language, law etc. There are still traces of Roman culture in the way European countries operate today. It’s not hard to see pro Empire folks arguing the same for the British Empire - exporting a civil service, administration systems, the concept of disciplined and organised armed forces, railways, architecture, culture etc. There’s also the parallel that the former territories of both fell into disarray and often internal war of course, but that’s a negative parallel they might not want to talk about.

To be clear, I’m not saying I’d argue that, but there are, I think, a fair number who might - the kind of people who might view the British Empire as a bringer of civilisation.

Thanks, yes I get the comparison generally but maybe misread your post about one being tenuous and the other not.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:20 pm**

GogLais wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:27 am
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:32 am
GogLais wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:24 am

Isn’t there a whole Middle East Islamic thing about our military actions there being the Crusades again? It’s like the Germans coming to Wembley dressed as the Wehrmacht. Ignoring the many centuries in between of course.
Out of interest, what are your views on Italians wearing togas in the UK? I saw a few at Euro 96. Seems a bit of a closer analogy to the crusades, I'd say the centuries - well, getting on for millennia - in between are quite important, all in all.
Fair question to which I don’t really have an answer other than what’s already been said,

Although of course in the last few decades we’ve wrought a lot of death and destruction in the ME. Which I know some in the West regard as justified.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:25 pm**

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:05 pm
Biffer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:57 am
Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:35 am
I'd (genuinely) be interested to hear your reasoning on this.
There’s a view of the Roman Empire where you can look at the legacy of organised government, local administration, roads, aqueducts , etc (it all gets a bit Monty Python) and say there was a lasting positive effect even after they left - several hundred years of occupation had advanced society. Now that’s very much arguable, as most of Europe collapsed when they left, but it was often harking back to Roman times that introduced the larger empires that followed, and on art, architecture, language, law etc. There are still traces of Roman culture in the way European countries operate today. It’s not hard to see pro Empire folks arguing the same for the British Empire - exporting a civil service, administration systems, the concept of disciplined and organised armed forces, railways, architecture, culture etc. There’s also the parallel that the former territories of both fell into disarray and often internal war of course, but that’s a negative parallel they might not want to talk about.

To be clear, I’m not saying I’d argue that, but there are, I think, a fair number who might - the kind of people who might view the British Empire as a bringer of civilisation.
Thanks, yes I get the comparison generally but maybe misread your post about one being tenuous and the other not.

I think the tenuous nature would be that the benefits we ascribe to the Roman Empire only really came to light over many hundreds of years,but people claim those benefits for the British Empire now.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:28 pm**

It appears that the England fans aren't the only ones into the old fancy dress.

Although I have no idea what's going on there. An export version of Takeshi's Castle? Something more sordid?

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:43 pm**

Controversial opinion.
Crusades were actually not that bad.
The problem is the association with more modern western meddling in the wider middle east, which generally was actually bad.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:14 pm**

Jim Lahey wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:01 am Has there ever been talk of a split in FIFA to a splinter group?

Like what Trump tried to do with the NFL back in the 80s, but without a massive karnt in charge?

Obviously the Euro Super League didn't work for club sides but FIFA is clearly broken. A face lift might result in welcome changes for a few years but if its the organisation's structures that are the problem then it needs gutted.

If F365 is to be believed, Denmark would be ready to quit FIFA

https://www.football365.com/news/denmar ... rmband-ban

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:25 pm**

LOL

The Independent: Football fan loses $160,000 after betting on Argentina to beat Saudi Arabia.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 30594.html

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:31 pm**

Insane_Homer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:25 pm LOL

The Independent: Football fan loses $160,000 after betting on Argentina to beat Saudi Arabia.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 30594.html

Not a fan, a ‘professional’ gambler.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:35 pm**

Uncle fester wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:43 pm Controversial opinion.
Crusades were actually not that bad.
The problem is the association with more modern western meddling in the wider middle east, which generally was actually bad.

Eh.....People's Crusade, 4th Crusade and quite a bit of the 1st and 3rd might want a word.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:56 pm**

lemonhead wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:35 pm
Uncle fester wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:43 pm Controversial opinion.
Crusades were actually not that bad.
The problem is the association with more modern western meddling in the wider middle east, which generally was actually bad.
Eh.....People's Crusade, 4th Crusade and quite a bit of the 1st and 3rd might want a word.

Just a bunch of people moving from one place to another, like the opposite's expansion into Spain and the Balkans.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:07 pm**

Most of history involves amusing travelogues, for sure.

But the fact they leave a legacy at all (aside from culinary exchange) is usually the point to focus on.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:37 pm**

EnergiseR2 wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:45 pm His name is Dave and he sells sand

Shhh. The Tories will spend £billions procuring it if this news gets out.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:42 pm**

inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:47 am I'm really not sure where good/bad/indifferent comes into anything I posted, but I can assure you the Roman Empire was not good for the inhabitants of the countries they colonised, unless you were one of the Quislings. Arguably not as bad as under the Normans, but not good.

Would have to disagree but then you may have a point if we are looking at short term timescales re the Romans.

Posted: **Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:57 pm**

Meanwhile, on the pitch (you know, the place they play soccer) Japan came from behind to beat Germany in their opening match, for the second WC in a row for Germany. Japan's two goal scorers both play in the Bundesliga.

Posted: **Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:02 am**

EnergiseR2 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:57 am
Kiwias wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:57 pm Meanwhile, on the pitch (you know, the place they play soccer) Japan came from behind to beat Germany in their opening match, for the second WC in a row for Germany. Japan's two goal scorers both play in the Bundesliga.
BORING

Posted: **Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:20 am**

Biffer wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:35 pm
EnergiseR2 wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:48 pm I know a lad from college who is trustworthy on this and says its bollox. Said if there was a slew of deaths there would have been massive attention on it. He was saying the deaths thing has all Qataris pissed off including the cool young ones
A lad from college?

OK then, we'll all accept that.

Well he did post it on twitter, so you know, reliable source

Posted: **Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:35 am**

Niegs wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:56 pm
lemonhead wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:35 pm
Uncle fester wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:43 pm Controversial opinion.
Crusades were actually not that bad.
The problem is the association with more modern western meddling in the wider middle east, which generally was actually bad.
Eh.....People's Crusade, 4th Crusade and quite a bit of the 1st and 3rd might want a word.
Just a bunch of people moving from one place to another, like the opposite's expansion into Spain and the Balkans.

In the context of that time, not that outrageous.

Posted: **Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:11 pm**

Has Neymar ever actually done anything any good?

I’m a sport of show ponies, he seems the ultimate show pony

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:47 am**

Slick wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:11 pm Has Neymar ever actually done anything any good?

I’m a sport of show ponies, he seems the ultimate show pony

He's about to over-take Pele as Brazil's leading goal scorer... and he shags his sister and voted for Bolsonaro. Apart from that...

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:57 am**

Grandpa wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:47 am
Slick wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:11 pm Has Neymar ever actually done anything any good?

I’m a sport of show ponies, he seems the ultimate show pony
He's about to over-take Pele as Brazil's leading goal scorer... and he shags his sister and voted for Bolsonaro. Apart from that...

and he's won more Oscars than Daniel Day Lewis.

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:25 am**

Grandpa wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:47 am
Slick wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:11 pm Has Neymar ever actually done anything any good?

I’m a sport of show ponies, he seems the ultimate show pony
He's about to over-take Pele as Brazil's leading goal scorer... and he shags his sister and voted for Bolsonaro. Apart from that...

FACTS are soooooo boring

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:29 am**

Grandpa wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:47 am
Slick wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:11 pm Has Neymar ever actually done anything any good?

I’m a sport of show ponies, he seems the ultimate show pony
He's about to over-take Pele as Brazil's leading goal scorer... and he shags his sister and voted for Bolsonaro. Apart from that...

Sorry..... he shags Pele's sister, or his own sister?

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:59 am**

Bolsonaro's sister?

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:00 am**

At the same time?

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:07 am**

inactionman wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:29 am
Grandpa wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:47 am
Slick wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:11 pm Has Neymar ever actually done anything any good?

I’m a sport of show ponies, he seems the ultimate show pony
He's about to over-take Pele as Brazil's leading goal scorer... and he shags his sister and voted for Bolsonaro. Apart from that...
Sorry..... he shags Pele's sister, or his own sister?

His own sister. He is said to be 'very close' to his sister and has a tattoo of her face on his arm, while she has a tattoo of his eyes on her arm and they are often seen out together. This has led to lots of innuendo and jokes about them shagging, but no actual proof, obviously.

For example

https://socceronsunday.com/article/neym ... n-jacuzzi/

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:09 am**

They both seem to have really big heads.

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:17 am**

average joe wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:09 am They both seem to have really big heads.

An understatement.

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:51 am**

Wales being outplayed here. And now Hennessy totals someone and gets sent off.

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:20 pm**

And some of the pain of 1978 is lifted.

NPR

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