The Official F1 Thread

[Un Pilier]

Goooo Landoooooo! That was a fabulous last lap.

Well, that was eventful. Hopefully they will be able to put the cars back together by Friday, though I think some of the reliability issues were first race syndrome rather than just the kerbs.

Shame for Alex Albon and young Russell. Both drove excellent races.

[Biffer]

Hamilton looked like he was on full lock. Interested to see if Mercedes appeal tgat

He knew exactly what he was doing. Trying to push Albon out.

You can probably only tell from telemetry. If he was full lock, and took the corner as he had before, i'm not sure what else he can do. If it turns out he braked a lot later than ordinarily then that's a different matter, but you'd need previous telemetry.

Albion has got ahead, so is entitled to the racing line, no? Hamilton should have backed off, whet he did on previous laps isn’t relevant as he didn’t have the rights to the racing line.

[Un Pilier]

He knew exactly what he was doing. Trying to push Albon out.

You can probably only tell from telemetry. If he was full lock, and took the corner as he had before, i'm not sure what else he can do. If it turns out he braked a lot later than ordinarily then that's a different matter, but you'd need previous telemetry.

Albion has got ahead, so is entitled to the racing line, no? Hamilton should have backed off, whet he did on previous laps isn’t relevant as he didn’t have the rights to the racing line.

I think the penalty was possibly justified but where else was Hamilton going to go once they had got to that position?

[Biffer]

You can probably only tell from telemetry. If he was full lock, and took the corner as he had before, i'm not sure what else he can do. If it turns out he braked a lot later than ordinarily then that's a different matter, but you'd need previous telemetry.

Albion has got ahead, so is entitled to the racing line, no? Hamilton should have backed off, whet he did on previous laps isn’t relevant as he didn’t have the rights to the racing line.

I think the penalty was possibly justified but where else was Hamilton going to go once they had got to that position?

Such are the rules. And if they’re not written that way, then you’ll get guys forcing each other off the track.

[Un Pilier]

Albion has got ahead, so is entitled to the racing line, no? Hamilton should have backed off, whet he did on previous laps isn’t relevant as he didn’t have the rights to the racing line.

I think the penalty was possibly justified but where else was Hamilton going to go once they had got to that position?

Such are the rules. And if they’re not written that way, then you’ll get guys forcing each other off the track.

These things are close judgement calls and the penalty can be justified. But Check out Verstappen’s winning pass on Le Clerc at the Austrian GP last year. Consistent in it’s application of the rules?

[Insane_Homer]

You can probably only tell from telemetry. If he was full lock, and took the corner as he had before, i'm not sure what else he can do. If it turns out he braked a lot later than ordinarily then that's a different matter, but you'd need previous telemetry.

Albion has got ahead, so is entitled to the racing line, no? Hamilton should have backed off, whet he did on previous laps isn’t relevant as he didn’t have the rights to the racing line.

I think the penalty was possibly justified but where else was Hamilton going to go once they had got to that position?

On Entry Hamilton took the inside line, inviting Albon to go around the outside, so he was fully aware that Albon was going to be there and thus should have left enough room.

[fishfoodie]

Albion has got ahead, so is entitled to the racing line, no? Hamilton should have backed off, whet he did on previous laps isn’t relevant as he didn’t have the rights to the racing line.

I think the penalty was possibly justified but where else was Hamilton going to go once they had got to that position?

On Entry Haminton took the inside line, inviting Albon to go around the outside, so he was fully aware that Albon was going to be there and thus should have left enough room.

I think Albon was extremely smart; he knew the Mercs had been told not to go over the kerbs; so he knew there'd be space there.

[Sandstorm]

The rules seem weird to me: if you want to go around the outside of a car to pass (Albon) you should make sure there’s enough room you don’t hit Lewis. Otherwise the pass isn’t there to make....

[Insane_Homer]

The rules seem weird to me: if you want to go around the outside of a car to pass (Albon) you should make sure there’s enough room you don’t hit Lewis. Otherwise the pass isn’t there to make....

He didn't hit Lewis, Lewis hit him. The space was there, he was all but passed him.

[Slick]

The rules seem weird to me: if you want to go around the outside of a car to pass (Albon) you should make sure there’s enough room you don’t hit Lewis. Otherwise the pass isn’t there to make....

He didn't hit Lewis, Lewis hit him. The space was there, he was all but passed him.

Nah, bollocks, Hamilton was entitled to have a wee drift outside

[Saint]

The rules seem weird to me: if you want to go around the outside of a car to pass (Albon) you should make sure there’s enough room you don’t hit Lewis. Otherwise the pass isn’t there to make....

He didn't hit Lewis, Lewis hit him. The space was there, he was all but passed him.

If you're on the inside by definition you can't go tight round the corner. The way an overtake would be done from the outside is to brake early, take the racing apex, and cut inside. The length of a modern car dictates that it can't start turning till it's halfway across the track. If a driver tries to take the long way round the whole corner he's almost guaranteed to run out of space. That's just clear physics

From on-board it looks pretty clear that Hamilton was on full.lock all the way round. He couldn't have turned tighter. The only question could he have turned earlier - maybe, but certainly not by a lot


If you keep applying the rules this way then you're encouraging a driver to.lunge round the outside, knowing tgat there won't be room. The only way to avoid a penalty is to give the position up as soon as you see someone might make a lunge that by all rights can't work ( by the time you see them do it will ge too late, so you'll just have to give it up once they get close)

[Un Pilier]

The rules seem weird to me: if you want to go around the outside of a car to pass (Albon) you should make sure there’s enough room you don’t hit Lewis. Otherwise the pass isn’t there to make....

He didn't hit Lewis, Lewis hit him. The space was there, he was all but passed him.

If you're on the inside by definition you can't go tight round the corner. The way an overtake would be done from the outside is to brake early, take the racing apex, and cut inside. The length of a modern car dictates that it can't start turning till it's halfway across the track. If a driver tries to take the long way round the whole corner he's almost guaranteed to run out of space. That's just clear physics

From on-board it looks pretty clear that Hamilton was on full.lock all the way round. He couldn't have turned tighter. The only question could he have turned earlier - maybe, but certainly not by a lot


If you keep applying the rules this way then you're encouraging a driver to.lunge round the outside, knowing tgat there won't be room. The only way to avoid a penalty is to give the position up as soon as you see someone might make a lunge that by all rights can't work ( by the time you see them do it will ge too late, so you'll just have to give it up once they get close)

That’s a good explanation. It’s always a tough call at the margins and it’s fair to say that there were always drivers that others sought to avoid putting themselves outside of. The likes of Schumacher, Senna and now you could probably add Verstappen. Hard racers.

Hamilton is generally considered to be a fair and clean racer and I have to wonder what young Albon was thinking when he decided to try to drive around the outside of the multiple world champion. I like Alex, though, and he’ll no doubt learn to pick his time and place as Max has done / is doing. Vettel, on the other hand, seems to be completely losing his judgement.

[handyman]

A bit of controversy, but great to have racing back. Lot's of action on track. Has there ever been a boring Austrian GP?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The interesting part of the penalty on Lewis is there's seemingly now a requirement for the car on the inside not to take the racing line if the car on the outside can get ahead around a corner, that's possibly not going to happen often because mostly drivers will choose safer options, and will not always have such advantage on tyres, and there won't always be grip wider out anyway. But there probably will be some corners on some tracks where the driver ahead and on the inside line heading into a corner now needs to what? Lift?

[Guy Smiley]

He didn't hit Lewis, Lewis hit him. The space was there, he was all but passed him.

If you're on the inside by definition you can't go tight round the corner. The way an overtake would be done from the outside is to brake early, take the racing apex, and cut inside. The length of a modern car dictates that it can't start turning till it's halfway across the track. If a driver tries to take the long way round the whole corner he's almost guaranteed to run out of space. That's just clear physics

From on-board it looks pretty clear that Hamilton was on full.lock all the way round. He couldn't have turned tighter. The only question could he have turned earlier - maybe, but certainly not by a lot


If you keep applying the rules this way then you're encouraging a driver to.lunge round the outside, knowing tgat there won't be room. The only way to avoid a penalty is to give the position up as soon as you see someone might make a lunge that by all rights can't work ( by the time you see them do it will ge too late, so you'll just have to give it up once they get close)

That’s a good explanation. It’s always a tough call at the margins and it’s fair to say that there were always drivers that others sought to avoid putting themselves outside of. The likes of Schumacher, Senna and now you could probably add Verstappen. Hard racers.

Hamilton is generally considered to be a fair and clean racer and I have to wonder what young Albon was thinking when he decided to try to drive around the outside of the multiple world champion. I like Alex, though, and he’ll no doubt learn to pick his time and place as Max has done / is doing. Vettel, on the other hand, seems to be completely losing his judgement.

the St Lewis syndrome rears it’s head again.

[Sandstorm]

the St Lewis syndrome rears it’s head again.

Where? People are discussing the incident practically, not emotionally.

[Guy Smiley]

the St Lewis syndrome rears it’s head again.

Where? People are discussing the incident practically, not emotionally.

Reread the last paragraph I quoted... breathlessly.

[Saint]

The interesting part of the penalty on Lewis is there's seemingly now a requirement for the car on the inside not to take the racing line if the car on the outside can get ahead around a corner, that's possibly not going to happen often because mostly drivers will choose safer options, and will not always have such advantage on tyres, and there won't always be grip wider out anyway. But there probably will be some corners on some tracks where the driver ahead and on the inside line heading into a corner now needs to what? Lift?

Ask yourself what happens if you're turning and lift off. That's going to end badly for all parties

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The interesting part of the penalty on Lewis is there's seemingly now a requirement for the car on the inside not to take the racing line if the car on the outside can get ahead around a corner, that's possibly not going to happen often because mostly drivers will choose safer options, and will not always have such advantage on tyres, and there won't always be grip wider out anyway. But there probably will be some corners on some tracks where the driver ahead and on the inside line heading into a corner now needs to what? Lift?

Ask yourself what happens if you're turning and lift off. That's going to end badly for all parties

Lifting is going to lose traction at the rear, albeit not as badly as braking, and given they're taking corners at pace any messing around with the balance seems... risky. But given this ruling they must have some thoughts on what they expect the driver in Lewis' position to do, I'm assuming that's not enter all corners below potential pace because you might not be able to take the racing line, so it's what?

[Un Pilier]

the St Lewis syndrome rears it’s head again.

Where? People are discussing the incident practically, not emotionally.

Reread the last paragraph I quoted... breathlessly.

Come on then Shanky’s Mate, lets have your interpretation of the event. I promise not to take the piss.

[Guy Smiley]

How graciously condescending of you.

[Un Pilier]

How graciously condescending of you.

Thought not.

[Guy Smiley]

Hamilton moved over and took a defensive line into the corner, knowing Albon was coming. He got it wrong on the exit... the stewards decision supports that.

Albon had a go at the previous corner. Both drivers knew he had the grip. It was probably impatience from Albon in having a go where he did but they’re inside the last ten laps, he’s got traffic pressing behind and sees a chance to go by... he clearly had the grip to make the pass.

It’s Hamilton’s error.

[Un Pilier]

Hamilton moved over and took a defensive line into the corner, knowing Albon was coming. He got it wrong on the exit... the stewards decision supports that.

Albon had a go at the previous corner. Both drivers knew he had the grip. It was probably impatience from Albon in having a go where he did but they’re inside the last ten laps, he’s got traffic pressing behind and sees a chance to go by... he clearly had the grip to make the pass.

It’s Hamilton’s error.

I agree with that. And have agreed throughout the thread that the penalty was justified. It was the minimum penalty, of course, and I agree with the stewards on that too. Thanks for giving your opinion. Please don’t mistake me for a Lewis fanboi.

[Saint]

The interesting part of the penalty on Lewis is there's seemingly now a requirement for the car on the inside not to take the racing line if the car on the outside can get ahead around a corner, that's possibly not going to happen often because mostly drivers will choose safer options, and will not always have such advantage on tyres, and there won't always be grip wider out anyway. But there probably will be some corners on some tracks where the driver ahead and on the inside line heading into a corner now needs to what? Lift?

Ask yourself what happens if you're turning and lift off. That's going to end badly for all parties

Lifting is going to lose traction at the rear, albeit not as badly as braking, and given they're taking corners at pace any messing around with the balance seems... risky. But given this ruling they must have some thoughts on what they expect the driver in Lewis' position to do, I'm assuming that's not enter all corners below potential pace because you might not be able to take the racing line, so it's what?

Like I say, I don't know. Beyond concedingbghe viewer a long way out because the driver on the outside "might" try to go the long way round i don't see an answer.

Like I say, the:classical way for the driver on the outside to execute the overtake from Albon's position isbyo brake early, take the apex, and effectively force Hamilton to the outside. Drivers have been making that work for decades, with relatively little risk.

It's also worth taking another look at where they touched. At that point, Albon had at least a metre of track plus the curb to work with before he would have been considered "off the track". But if he'd taken that he would have gone so wide that the kvertake couldn't possibly have worked, because he'd be travelling so.mich extra distance.

I simply don't like this judgement because it doesn't actually help anything. The inside driver is on full lock and can't turn any more- he gets penalised, sure, but that doesn't help the outsidd driver who will.lose places regardless as I still can't see how you avoid the impact. So both drivers lose out

[Saint]

Anyway, to change subject they reckon that Ferrari were losing 0.7s a lap. Strangely enough Ferrari's lack of speed can be traced back to their undisclosed agreement with the FIA on burning oil....

They're also so worried by their lack of performance that they're bringing forward their Hungaroring upgrades (or at least some if them)

[Sandstorm]

Anyway, to change subject they reckon that Ferrari were losing 0.7s a lap. Strangely enough Ferrari's lack of speed can be traced back to their undisclosed agreement with the FIA on burning oil....

They're also so worried by their lack of performance that they're bringing forward their Hungaroring upgrades (or at least some if them)

Racing Point cars appear to burn a lot of oil at present too.

[Kawazaki]

Leclerc literally pushed Hamilton into the weeds at Monza last year when he was level on the outside. The only reason there wasn't a collision is because Hamilton was in the weeds.

Result for Ferrari in Italy? No penalty.

[Saint]

Anyway, to change subject they reckon that Ferrari were losing 0.7s a lap. Strangely enough Ferrari's lack of speed can be traced back to their undisclosed agreement with the FIA on burning oil....

They're also so worried by their lack of performance that they're bringing forward their Hungaroring upgrades (or at least some if them)

Racing Point cars appear to burn a lot of oil at present too.

There's something wierd there I'd agree, but that's a Mercedes engine being run to Mercedes specs. If they're burning oil then all the Merc engines should be doing the same, but it's only the Tracing cars with black smoke

[Un Pilier]

F2 was lively this weekend, as it often is. The signs are it’s going to be a competitive season. Dan Ticktum had a good introduction as series rookie with a podium (3rd) in the sprint race following up on his 5th in the feature race. Good to see him back after Red Bull dropped him. He’s with DAMS and is doing some development work with Williams I believe.

[Saint]

F2 was lively this weekend, as it often is. The signs are it’s going to be a competitive season. Dan Ticktum had a good introduction as series rookie with a podium (3rd) in the sprint race following up on his 5th in the feature race. Good to see him back after Red Bull dropped him. He’s with DAMS and is doing some development work with Williams I believe.

Red Bull's junior programme has a REALLY bad record. Out of 70 young drivers they've dropped, 14 made it to F1 anyway. And out of their 3 "success", only Riccardio is really a product of the system

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Leclerc literally pushed Hamilton into the weeds at Monza last year when he was level on the outside. The only reason there wasn't a collision is because Hamilton was in the weeds.

Result for Ferrari in Italy? No penalty.

Either this weekend was an aberration or we're about to see some weird racing and/or stewarding going forwards. Not that I feel sorry for Lewis/Mercedes, they were on the wrong tyre and bad things can happen when you allow yourself to be boxed into a corner

[Un Pilier]

F2 was lively this weekend, as it often is. The signs are it’s going to be a competitive season. Dan Ticktum had a good introduction as series rookie with a podium (3rd) in the sprint race following up on his 5th in the feature race. Good to see him back after Red Bull dropped him. He’s with DAMS and is doing some development work with Williams I believe.

Red Bull's junior programme has a REALLY bad record. Out of 70 young drivers they've dropped, 14 made it to F1 anyway. And out of their 3 "success", only Riccardio is really a product of the system

Yeah they are pretty damning stats. I read something a while back where Ticktum was commenting on the reasons for being dropped. He didn’t burn any boats iirc, but it seemed like he felt badly done to.

You really need the stars to be aligned to break through, don’t you. I’m always impressed by Guanyu Zhou but he needs to start getting results - he’s been around a good while now. I thought he was the class of the field on Saturday until the electronic problems struck. You only have a short window in which you have to make your pitch.

[Un Pilier]

Looks like Ferdi Alonso is back at Renault next year to replace Ricciardo (off to McLaren). Interesting. Must be hoping Renault will make a leap forward with the 2022 rule changes.

[ScarfaceClaw]

Looks like Ferdi Alonso is back at Renault next year to replace Ricciardo (off to McLaren). Interesting. Must be hoping Renault will make a leap forward with the 2022 rule changes.

Should liven the place up. Doesn’t really leave anywhere for Vettel to realistically go. Admittedly he’s been driving like a donkey for the last season and a half.

[Un Pilier]

Looks like Ferdi Alonso is back at Renault next year to replace Ricciardo (off to McLaren). Interesting. Must be hoping Renault will make a leap forward with the 2022 rule changes.

Should liven the place up. Doesn’t really leave anywhere for Vettel to realistically go. Admittedly he’s been driving like a donkey for the last season and a half.

I can’t see Vettel going anywhere after Ferrari.

[fishfoodie]

Looks like Ferdi Alonso is back at Renault next year to replace Ricciardo (off to McLaren). Interesting. Must be hoping Renault will make a leap forward with the 2022 rule changes.

Should liven the place up. Doesn’t really leave anywhere for Vettel to realistically go. Admittedly he’s been driving like a donkey for the last season and a half.

I can’t see Vettel going anywhere after Ferrari.

He should head to Indy car for a couple of years.

He needs to completely separate from F1, because his heart & head aren't in the game for the last couple of years.

[Un Pilier]

Should liven the place up. Doesn’t really leave anywhere for Vettel to realistically go. Admittedly he’s been driving like a donkey for the last season and a half.

I can’t see Vettel going anywhere after Ferrari.

He should head to Indy car for a couple of years.

He needs to completely separate from F1, because his heart & head aren't in the game for the last couple of years.

I’m not sure he has the contacts to secure a decent drive in Indycar. I think he’s too proud and intelligent to move to an uncompetitive team in any formula.My guess is he’ll just retire.

[fishfoodie]

I can’t see Vettel going anywhere after Ferrari.

He should head to Indy car for a couple of years.

He needs to completely separate from F1, because his heart & head aren't in the game for the last couple of years.

I’m not sure he has the contacts to secure a decent drive in Indycar. I think he’s too proud and intelligent to move to an uncompetitive team in any formula.My guess is he’ll just retire.

If Takuma Sato can get a drive with his F1 career; how hard could it be for a world champion to get a drive ?

[Saint]

He should head to Indy car for a couple of years.

He needs to completely separate from F1, because his heart & head aren't in the game for the last couple of years.

I’m not sure he has the contacts to secure a decent drive in Indycar. I think he’s too proud and intelligent to move to an uncompetitive team in any formula.My guess is he’ll just retire.

If Takuma Sato can get a drive with his F1 career; how hard could it be for a world champion to get a drive ?

Vettel isn't really the personality I can see fitting in Indycar. He also has a bad history of making poor decisions when placed under pressure in close quarters with other cars - which is a major feature of Indy.

Then add to that he isn't desperately marketable in the US market, nor any market that's high on their radar. It simply doesn't make sense