NPR

Rinkals wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:42 pm

Ymx wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:29 pm

Rinkals wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:11 pm

Correct.

What YM is saying is that the organism is so small that it would be impossible for the mask to have any practical effect.

Or, to put it into his own words: "has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings".

Tbh it was something I saw a reference to the other day which made I larf.

Looks like it was Dr Hilary on GMB - long time ago by the looks.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n ... s-18086932

And before you lot do one of these pile ons, YM is anti mask. I’m not, I wear one myself for whatever good it might do.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

I was careful not to say that you were anti-mask, but you have repeated a claim I hear quite often; namely that masks are only useful in that they show that the wearer is an obedient and compliant sheep.

SaintK wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:30 pm

Rinkals wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:42 pm

Ymx wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:29 pm
Tbh it was something I saw a reference to the other day which made I larf.

Looks like it was Dr Hilary on GMB - long time ago by the looks.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n ... s-18086932

And before you lot do one of these pile ons, YM is anti mask. I’m not, I wear one myself for whatever good it might do.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

I was careful not to say that you were anti-mask, but you have repeated a claim I hear quite often; namely that masks are only useful in that they show that the wearer is an obedient and compliant sheep.

Copyright: Bimboman Planet Rugby Forum

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:26 pm

Ymx wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:43 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:48 am petej continuing his crusade I see.



It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

Hmm, you're suggesting that masks are pointless. They're a mitigation. They're not pointless.

Ymx wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:32 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:26 pm

Ymx wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:43 pm

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

Hmm, you're suggesting that masks are pointless. They're a mitigation. They're not pointless.

No, I’m not. They are a mitigation, perhaps a fairly subtle weak one, but a mitigation.

I’m saying we didn’t need to wear masks, then Omicron happened, and we now do.

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:44 pm

Ymx wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:32 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:26 pm

Hmm, you're suggesting that masks are pointless. They're a mitigation. They're not pointless.

No, I’m not. They are a mitigation, perhaps a fairly subtle weak one, but a mitigation.

I’m saying we didn’t need to wear masks, then Omicron happened, and we now do.

OK, but you do realise the our "freedom" has been really fucking stupid, right?

fishfoodie wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:53 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:44 pm

Ymx wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:32 pm
No, I’m not. They are a mitigation, perhaps a fairly subtle weak one, but a mitigation.

I’m saying we didn’t need to wear masks, then Omicron happened, and we now do.

OK, but you do realise the our "freedom" has been really fucking stupid, right?

The problem is that it's essentially impossible to prove a negative; so no-one can say that wearing masks saved a million lives; or whatever.

... and lets face it; even if the could; these contrarian dickheads would find some other excuse.

Ymx wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:43 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:48 am petej continuing his crusade I see.

Ymx wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:29 pmI was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

COVID-19: Emerging picture from South Africa suggests Omicron variant could be real cause for concern

New data shows that the Omicron wave is much steeper than the Delta wave that hit South Africa - and hospitalisations are now rising in Gauteng province.

by Tom Clarke, Science and technology editor @aTomClarke
Thursday 2 December 2021 13:08, UK
The variant was first detected in South Africa
Image:

The variant was first detected in South Africa

Don't be distracted by headlines saying the Omicron variant might be less deadly than Delta. More worrying pictures are starting to emerge from South Africa.

…

COVID-19: South Africa doctors see 'skyrocketing' cases in vaccinated and unvaccinated but symptoms 'mild' in Omicron hotspot

GPs confirm the observations of World Health Organisation officials that, so far, the new variant of COVID-19 presents mainly mild symptoms but say it is too early to know if the virus will not be more severe in its later stages.

By Philip Whiteside, international news reporter, and Mukelwa Hlatshwayo, Africa producer
Thursday 2 December 2021 20:43, UK

People queue to be vaccinated against COVID-19 at a hospital near Johannesburg, in the Omicron hotspot of Gauteng province, South Africa. Pic: AP
Image:
People queue to be vaccinated against COVID-19 at a hospital near Johannesburg, in the Omicron hotspot of Gauteng province. Pic: AP
Doctors treating people in the region of South Africa where Omicron is surging have told Sky News they have seen a rise in the number of patients being reinfected and vaccinated patients catching COVID-19.

Rates in the Gauteng region, particularly around Pretoria, have rocketed in the last few weeks as the Omicron variant has started to replace Delta nationwide.

But the GPs Sky spoke to confirmed reports from the World Health Organisation that in most cases, so far, those affected by South Africa's fourth wave of COVID are presenting "mild" symptoms, rather than severe ones.

Dr Sheri Fanaroff, a GP at a private practice and founder of the Gauteng GPs Collective, said: "What we are seeing are a lot of patients getting infected again, both vaccinated and unvaccinated patients.

So far, the infections we are seeing are very mild. I am not aware of any patients with severe illness at the moment," said the doctor, whose patients are "mostly all vaccinated".

"I am sure there are some but on the ground, at the moment, people are presenting… with sore throats, coughing with fevers, with body pain… viral type of symptoms," she added.

"It is still too early to make an assumption because with other strains we saw… more severe illness [occurs] in the second or third week.

"I have an 80-year-old with underlying cardiac disease, he is not well generally. He is on day seven of COVID and doing quite well. All my elderly patients have something… so far they are mild which is the same as what I am hearing from other GPs on the ground in Johannesburg."

Her observations were echoed by Dr Bhadrashil Modi, another GP, whose practice is in downtown Johannesburg, another city in Gauteng.

He told Sky News: "There has been an increase week on week.
…

petej wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:52 pm

Ymx wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:43 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:48 am petej continuing his crusade I see.



It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

The mitigations will slow the spread but to what end, more and more mitigations for a disease that is less and less harmful? For me the balance/risk has shifted and mitigations that were worthwhile pre vaccines and delta & omicron increasingly aren't worth it now, though the masking doesn't really bother me. Anyone suggesting shutting down schools or nurseries or making people test or mask 4 year olds and younger can fuck right off. The end is obviously the virus being endemic and that we are all going to get it multiple times in our lifetimes. The biggest risk is when we first get it and are immune naive. I can appreciate governments being cautious (shame that ours wasn't more so when it really should have been).

The out competing delta is interesting considering the SA delta wave had peaked ages go meaning it is likely that it's pure Rcurrent will be considerably different its R0 value or whatever you wish to call it. Omicron could have a lower R0 value than delta but a higher Rcurrent value due to its immunity evasion. If the omicron Rcurrent ends up being lower in highly vaccinated countries it is a bit of blow to the natural immunity is superior lot as SA has low vaccination and more "natural" immunity.

By R0 I mean how it would spread in a population that had no immunity at all.

Slick wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:05 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:53 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:44 pm

OK, but you do realise the our "freedom" has been really fucking stupid, right?

The problem is that it's essentially impossible to prove a negative; so no-one can say that wearing masks saved a million lives; or whatever.

... and lets face it; even if the could; these contrarian dickheads would find some other excuse.

That last sentence is bang on. It’s the utter confidence these people have that does my head in

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:54 pm I just had my booster at a drop in vaccination centre, I say centre, it is a gazebo at the side of a church.

I read this article whilst I was in the queue, it's good news, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... rial-finds

tabascoboy wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:05 pm Booster tomorrow

sturginho wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:53 pm

tabascoboy wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:05 pm Booster tomorrow

me too

tc27 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:15 pm Be interesting to see if anymore clarity about the outbreak of Omicron in Scotland comes forward - the first cluster all linked to a single event which cant be named for some reason.

At least its stop the dog whistles about it coming from England I guess.

Calculon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:16 am

petej wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:52 pm

Ymx wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:43 pm

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

The mitigations will slow the spread but to what end, more and more mitigations for a disease that is less and less harmful? For me the balance/risk has shifted and mitigations that were worthwhile pre vaccines and delta & omicron increasingly aren't worth it now, though the masking doesn't really bother me. Anyone suggesting shutting down schools or nurseries or making people test or mask 4 year olds and younger can fuck right off. The end is obviously the virus being endemic and that we are all going to get it multiple times in our lifetimes. The biggest risk is when we first get it and are immune naive. I can appreciate governments being cautious (shame that ours wasn't more so when it really should have been).

The out competing delta is interesting considering the SA delta wave had peaked ages go meaning it is likely that it's pure Rcurrent will be considerably different its R0 value or whatever you wish to call it. Omicron could have a lower R0 value than delta but a higher Rcurrent value due to its immunity evasion. If the omicron Rcurrent ends up being lower in highly vaccinated countries it is a bit of blow to the natural immunity is superior lot as SA has low vaccination and more "natural" immunity.

By R0 I mean how it would spread in a population that had no immunity at all.

Ro assumes complete susceptibility in a population so you are talking about R or Rt. The Rt of Omicron is extremely high in SA at the moment but the reasons it might be lower in somewhere like the UK is more complex than just vaccination rate. Many other factors in play, maybe also one of them the fact that omicron took of in SA when there were only a couple of hundred daily infections from Delta, while the UK has 50000 daily Delta infections at the time that Omicron is trying to establish itself there. Completely agree with your fist paragraph, I would add travel bans to the list of things that can fuck off. I have a friend here who has been unable to see her little girl for nearly two years thanks to a travel ban.

An Italian man who wanted a Covid vaccination certificate without getting the jab turned up for his vaccine with a fake arm, officials say.

The man, in his 50s, arrived for his shot with a silicone mould covering his real arm, hoping it would go unnoticed.

But a nurse was not fooled and the man has now been reported to the police.

The nurse told local media that when she had rolled up his sleeve, she found the skin "rubbery and cold" and the pigment "too light".

tabascoboy wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:28 pm Some people.....

An Italian man who wanted a Covid vaccination certificate without getting the jab turned up for his vaccine with a fake arm, officials say.

The man, in his 50s, arrived for his shot with a silicone mould covering his real arm, hoping it would go unnoticed.

But a nurse was not fooled and the man has now been reported to the police.

The nurse told local media that when she had rolled up his sleeve, she found the skin "rubbery and cold" and the pigment "too light".

Pupils at a Kent secondary school have been removed from lessons and given detentions for wearing face masks in class.

Youngsters at the Abbey School in Faversham say they have been covering up to protect vulnerable relatives as Covid cases soar across the town.

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:34 pm

tabascoboy wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:28 pm Some people.....

An Italian man who wanted a Covid vaccination certificate without getting the jab turned up for his vaccine with a fake arm, officials say.

The man, in his 50s, arrived for his shot with a silicone mould covering his real arm, hoping it would go unnoticed.

But a nurse was not fooled and the man has now been reported to the police.

The nurse told local media that when she had rolled up his sleeve, she found the skin "rubbery and cold" and the pigment "too light".

There was a woman who tried that with some raw chicken breast.

dpedin wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:58 pm

Calculon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:16 am

petej wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:52 pm
The mitigations will slow the spread but to what end, more and more mitigations for a disease that is less and less harmful? For me the balance/risk has shifted and mitigations that were worthwhile pre vaccines and delta & omicron increasingly aren't worth it now, though the masking doesn't really bother me. Anyone suggesting shutting down schools or nurseries or making people test or mask 4 year olds and younger can fuck right off. The end is obviously the virus being endemic and that we are all going to get it multiple times in our lifetimes. The biggest risk is when we first get it and are immune naive. I can appreciate governments being cautious (shame that ours wasn't more so when it really should have been).

The out competing delta is interesting considering the SA delta wave had peaked ages go meaning it is likely that it's pure Rcurrent will be considerably different its R0 value or whatever you wish to call it. Omicron could have a lower R0 value than delta but a higher Rcurrent value due to its immunity evasion. If the omicron Rcurrent ends up being lower in highly vaccinated countries it is a bit of blow to the natural immunity is superior lot as SA has low vaccination and more "natural" immunity.

By R0 I mean how it would spread in a population that had no immunity at all.

Ro assumes complete susceptibility in a population so you are talking about R or Rt. The Rt of Omicron is extremely high in SA at the moment but the reasons it might be lower in somewhere like the UK is more complex than just vaccination rate. Many other factors in play, maybe also one of them the fact that omicron took of in SA when there were only a couple of hundred daily infections from Delta, while the UK has 50000 daily Delta infections at the time that Omicron is trying to establish itself there. Completely agree with your fist paragraph, I would add travel bans to the list of things that can fuck off. I have a friend here who has been unable to see her little girl for nearly two years thanks to a travel ban.

Unfortunately there is no evidence that the disease is less harmful or will become less harmful as you suggest unless you mean that being vaccinated reduces the chances of hospitalisation and possible death? Yesterday we have had over 50,000 cases in the UK and 141 deaths and we seem to be plateauing at around 120 deaths a day, c1,000 a week or 52,000 a year. It is likely to get worse as winter hits unless we accelerate vaccinations and boosters. Unfortunately we still have over 6 million who haven't taken up their vaccination yet plus over 9 million kids not yet eligible - a big enough pool to keep the covid circulating at a pretty high level for some time to come. The virus becoming endemic does not mean it becomes less deadly plus we have the overhanging shadow of long covid which we don't fully understand yet and I wouldn't want to be exposing people to an unknown and possibly serious long term medical condition. Also from initial data from SA it looks like Omicron might have a higher re-infection rate particularly amongst those who have already had covid and are relying on 'natural immunity'. The whole purpose of simple PH mitigations ie masks, ventilation, distancing, working from home where possible, etc is to avoid more stringent lock downs and to buy time to get everyone vaccinated and boosted. If everyone followed these simple mitigations then lock downs will not be required. I agree with comments above in that we have got the balance wrong - over 50,000 deaths a year to a preventable disease seems to many to me!

dpedin wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:42 pm

tc27 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:15 pm Be interesting to see if anymore clarity about the outbreak of Omicron in Scotland comes forward - the first cluster all linked to a single event which cant be named for some reason.

At least its stop the dog whistles about it coming from England I guess.

Booster and flu jabs received yesterday at Royal Highland Centre beside airport in Embra - no queues and took about 20mins and most of that was the 15 min wait afterwards!

The event was a Steps concert in Glasgow apparently which will mean everyone on this Board is safe from infection!

tabascoboy wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:37 pm And meanwhile

Pupils at a Kent secondary school have been removed from lessons and given detentions for wearing face masks in class.

Youngsters at the Abbey School in Faversham say they have been covering up to protect vulnerable relatives as Covid cases soar across the town.

laurent wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:02 pm Got my appointment for a Moderna shot as a booster.

Dogbert wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:59 pm

dpedin wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:42 pm

tc27 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:15 pm Be interesting to see if anymore clarity about the outbreak of Omicron in Scotland comes forward - the first cluster all linked to a single event which cant be named for some reason.

At least its stop the dog whistles about it coming from England I guess.

Booster and flu jabs received yesterday at Royal Highland Centre beside airport in Embra - no queues and took about 20mins and most of that was the 15 min wait afterwards!

The event was a Steps concert in Glasgow apparently which will mean everyone on this Board is safe from infection!

Steps concert you say

That's a

Spoiler

Show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqlI7t8sdPk

tabascoboy wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:07 pm Had my booster, centre was pretty busy for a village hall not much bigger than a basketball court. They were giving out Pfizer today...