NPR

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:36 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:29 am

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:39 am

and yet none has ?, even after nearly a century of emancipation. You had a woman PM, after fifty years, & now you've a Non-White PM.

Oh, & the Unionists & their closest Tory supporters definitely still care; they piss & moan when a Catholic is even appointed to the useless role of NI Secretary.

It would have been a major barrier probably 60 years ago and probably still a factor 30/40 but now no one cares. Also we are just not a religious society.

Have to say, it's never even registered with me that this was a thing

I think people are maybe confusing the PM position with the monarch. I'm not aware on any ban on catholics in political positions.

Blair probably did hold out until he'd resigned before publicly being a Roman Catholic, but that's probably as much the "we don't do God" thing as anything else.

The "safe" religious views from a political standpoint are atheism (Clegg), agnosticism, or the mildest of cultural Christmas-Easter-and-Remembrance-Day church going in the denomination in which you were brought up (Cameron, May). Converting to Catholicism suggests you really mean it, which in turn invites endless "did you pray with the US president" and "what do you believe about homosexuality (or contraception if you convert to RC)" questions from a commentariat who find sincere belief in Christianity very weird indeed. Just ask Tim Farron.

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:36 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:29 am

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:39 am

and yet none has ?, even after nearly a century of emancipation. You had a woman PM, after fifty years, & now you've a Non-White PM.

Oh, & the Unionists & their closest Tory supporters definitely still care; they piss & moan when a Catholic is even appointed to the useless role of NI Secretary.

It would have been a major barrier probably 60 years ago and probably still a factor 30/40 but now no one cares. Also we are just not a religious society.

Have to say, it's never even registered with me that this was a thing

It seems to be a bit of an obsession with our Irish posters, as it’s not the first time they have brought this up in relation to UK prime ministers. But it’s really not an issue for most people in the UK.

Biffer wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:48 am

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:36 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:29 am

It would have been a major barrier probably 60 years ago and probably still a factor 30/40 but now no one cares. Also we are just not a religious society.

Have to say, it's never even registered with me that this was a thing

I think people are maybe confusing the PM position with the monarch. I'm not aware on any ban on catholics in political positions.

That's what I was thinking

And agree with Mahoney

Lobby wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:14 am

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:36 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:29 am

It would have been a major barrier probably 60 years ago and probably still a factor 30/40 but now no one cares. Also we are just not a religious society.

Have to say, it's never even registered with me that this was a thing

It seems to be a bit of an obsession with our Irish posters, as it’s not the first time they have brought this up in relation to UK prime ministers. But it’s really not an issue for most people in the UK.

You'd think they have enough to be gleeful and smug about at the moment without this stick

No, Lobby's right - it's always the Irish raising it and they are definitely thinking of the PM. Unsurprisingly they're very sensitive to anti-Catholic prejudice, and they're right that there was substantial anti-Catholic prejudice in the UK well within living memory, but they're a bit out of date now.

That was actually a very good speech, not sure if his reiterating of manifesto pledges were intended as a dig at the outgoing govt, once can only hope that he is being genuine

sturginho wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:29 am That was actually a very good speech, not sure if his reiterating of manifesto pledges were intended as a dig at the outgoing govt, once can only hope that he is being genuine

His references back to the manifesto, and his saying that the election in 2019 was not a personal mandate for Boris, were intended to legitimise his appointment as PM and to confirm that the Tories are not about to call an election now.

sturginho wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:29 am That was actually a very good speech, not sure if his reiterating of manifesto pledges were intended as a dig at the outgoing govt, once can only hope that he is being genuine

In very polite language he just absolutely buried Liz Truss

sturginho wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:29 am That was actually a very good speech, not sure if his reiterating of manifesto pledges were intended as a dig at the outgoing govt, once can only hope that he is being genuine

Lest we forget!

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:22 am

Lobby wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:14 am

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:36 am

Have to say, it's never even registered with me that this was a thing

It seems to be a bit of an obsession with our Irish posters, as it’s not the first time they have brought this up in relation to UK prime ministers. But it’s really not an issue for most people in the UK.

You'd think they have enough to be gleeful and smug about at the moment without this stick

I'm not stirring, or even trying to sit on any high horse; because if you want to see honest to God religious bigotry, have a chat with most Sinn Fein supporters, North or South.

It's true that things are much better since the end of the Troubles, but like any other prejudice, it's always there in the background, & unscrupulous scum bags blow the dog whistle when they want, & in the UK, Catholic equals anti-Unionist in the limited logic of NI Unionists who are still stuck in the 1920s

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:45 am

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:22 am

Lobby wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:14 am

It seems to be a bit of an obsession with our Irish posters, as it’s not the first time they have brought this up in relation to UK prime ministers. But it’s really not an issue for most people in the UK.

You'd think they have enough to be gleeful and smug about at the moment without this stick

I'm not stirring, or even trying to sitting on any high horse; because if you want to see honest to God religious bigotry, have a chat with most Sinn Fein supporters, North or South.

It's true that things are much better since the end of the Troubles, but like any other prejudice, it's always there in the background, & unscrupulous scum bags blow the dog whistle when they want, & in the UK, Catholic equals anti-Unionist in the limited logic of NI Unionists who are still stuck in the 1920s

It’s not really relevant to being British PM though. The much bigger barriers to a practicing RC becoming PM are that they make up 7% of the population and practicing Christianity is very passe in the circles of power. Indeed the most prominent RC politician is Rees-Mogg…

NI Unionists represent < 1.5% of the population of the UK.

shame!

Wrexham’s striker Paul Mullin will not wear his controversial new boots which featured an X-rated message for the Conservatives.
The forward had posted an image on Instagram of the boots, with “F*** the Tories!” printed on the side. But the National League promotion chasers, owned by the Hollywood stars Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney, moved swiftly to ban the former Morecambe, Tranmere and Cambridge forward’s boots.

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:48 am

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:45 am

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:22 am

You'd think they have enough to be gleeful and smug about at the moment without this stick

I'm not stirring, or even trying to sitting on any high horse; because if you want to see honest to God religious bigotry, have a chat with most Sinn Fein supporters, North or South.

It's true that things are much better since the end of the Troubles, but like any other prejudice, it's always there in the background, & unscrupulous scum bags blow the dog whistle when they want, & in the UK, Catholic equals anti-Unionist in the limited logic of NI Unionists who are still stuck in the 1920s

It’s not really relevant to being British PM though. The much bigger barriers to a practicing RC becoming PM are that they make up 7% of the population and practicing Christianity is very passe in the circles of power. Indeed the most prominent RC politician is Rees-Mogg…

He's certainly the most obnoxiously so; but there are a number of other Tory Cabinet Ministers recently who have opinions about Abortion, that comes straight from the GOP Religious Fundamentalist school of thought .

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:55 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:48 am

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:45 am

I'm not stirring, or even trying to sitting on any high horse; because if you want to see honest to God religious bigotry, have a chat with most Sinn Fein supporters, North or South.

It's true that things are much better since the end of the Troubles, but like any other prejudice, it's always there in the background, & unscrupulous scum bags blow the dog whistle when they want, & in the UK, Catholic equals anti-Unionist in the limited logic of NI Unionists who are still stuck in the 1920s

It’s not really relevant to being British PM though. The much bigger barriers to a practicing RC becoming PM are that they make up 7% of the population and practicing Christianity is very passe in the circles of power. Indeed the most prominent RC politician is Rees-Mogg…

He's certainly the most obnoxiously so; but there are a number of other Tory Cabinet Ministers recently who have opinions about Abortion, that comes straight from the GOP Religious Fundamentalist school of thought .

Yes, but that's just traditional conservative bullshit, spouted by people who are often paid to pretend to hold those opinions by Yanks. Catholicism doesn't matter to the UK outside of NI.

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:06 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:55 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:48 am

It’s not really relevant to being British PM though. The much bigger barriers to a practicing RC becoming PM are that they make up 7% of the population and practicing Christianity is very passe in the circles of power. Indeed the most prominent RC politician is Rees-Mogg…

He's certainly the most obnoxiously so; but there are a number of other Tory Cabinet Ministers recently who have opinions about Abortion, that comes straight from the GOP Religious Fundamentalist school of thought .

Yes, but that's just traditional conservative bullshit, spouted by people who are often paid to pretend to hold those opinions by Yanks. Catholicism doesn't matter to the UK outside of NI.

You really should visit Glasgow

Forget my post about Catholicism. It was wholly wong and the barriers were repealed by law in the 1800s
Some may say a great day for multi cultural Britain.

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:11 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:06 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:55 am

He's certainly the most obnoxiously so; but there are a number of other Tory Cabinet Ministers recently who have opinions about Abortion, that comes straight from the GOP Religious Fundamentalist school of thought .

Yes, but that's just traditional conservative bullshit, spouted by people who are often paid to pretend to hold those opinions by Yanks. Catholicism doesn't matter to the UK outside of NI.

You really should visit Glasgow

indeed

Biffer wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:19 pm

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:11 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:06 pm

Yes, but that's just traditional conservative bullshit, spouted by people who are often paid to pretend to hold those opinions by Yanks. Catholicism doesn't matter to the UK outside of NI.

You really should visit Glasgow

indeed

Or Bradford, or Leicester, if you want to see how Politicians use religion is to stoke division, & hatred in society.

Oh dear!!! Let's hope not.

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:29 amIt would have been a major barrier probably 60 years ago and probably still a factor 30/40 but now no one cares. Also we are just not a religious society.

As a non practicing Catholic from a devoutly catholic family, I just do not see the issue, largely because religion is irrelevant to most people.

SaintK wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:26 pm Oh dear!!! Let's hope not.

Rees-Mogg out.

So there's some silver lining to all of this.

SaintK wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:44 am

sturginho wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:29 am That was actually a very good speech, not sure if his reiterating of manifesto pledges were intended as a dig at the outgoing govt, once can only hope that he is being genuine

Lest we forget!

Well obviously he's still a Tory

inactionman wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:35 pm

SaintK wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:26 pm Oh dear!!! Let's hope not.

Rees-Mogg out.

So there's some silver lining to all of this.

But if Braverman gets re-appointed it almost cancels that out

More than. He'll follow the money so is predictable is his horridness, she is thick and nasty and will say and do anything that trips across the howling void between her ears.

She also quit after breaching security.

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:11 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:06 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:55 am

He's certainly the most obnoxiously so; but there are a number of other Tory Cabinet Ministers recently who have opinions about Abortion, that comes straight from the GOP Religious Fundamentalist school of thought .

Yes, but that's just traditional conservative bullshit, spouted by people who are often paid to pretend to hold those opinions by Yanks. Catholicism doesn't matter to the UK outside of NI.

You really should visit Glasgow

Don't be mean

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:26 pm

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:11 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:06 pm

Yes, but that's just traditional conservative bullshit, spouted by people who are often paid to pretend to hold those opinions by Yanks. Catholicism doesn't matter to the UK outside of NI.

You really should visit Glasgow

Don't be mean

He's not. It's much better than Edinburgh

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:25 pm

Biffer wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:19 pm

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:11 pm

You really should visit Glasgow

indeed

Or Bradford, or Leicester, if you want to see how Politicians use religion is to stoke division, & hatred in society.

Tell me about the importance of catholicism in Bradford and Leicester.

If you'd started this off by saying a lot of people would have a real problem with a muslim becoming PM, most of us would sadly agree with you. But you have to understand the key difference between "no-one gives a shit if the PM is a catholic or not" and "politicians use anti-islamic sentiment to stoke division"

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:38 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:25 pm

Biffer wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:19 pm

indeed

Or Bradford, or Leicester, if you want to see how Politicians use religion is to stoke division, & hatred in society.

Tell me about the importance of catholicism in Bradford and Leicester.

If you'd started this off by saying a lot of people would have a real problem with a muslim becoming PM, most of us would sadly agree with you. But you have to understand the key difference between "no-one gives a shit if the PM is a catholic or not" and "politicians use anti-islamic sentiment to stoke division"

It was more of a broader comment, that religion wasn't a factor in UK Politics; the dog whistle note just changes depending on the religion; Catholic, Judaism, Islam; & who's blowing the whistle.

Most of us would love to think we live in secular societies, & Politicians wouldn't be attacked because of what individuals perceive as their bias, solely because of their Religion; or seek to use the religion of others as a campaigning point.

Look at the Labour MPs hounded out because others inside their party assumed they were incapable of having a valid position on Palestinian issues; or the Muslim MPs in the Tory party who felt ignored, when they raised issues concerning anti-Muslim rhetoric.

Anyway, this is a bit of a rat hole, & diverting me from my, "Two Minute Hate".

Mahoney wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:09 am Blair probably did hold out until he'd resigned before publicly being a Roman Catholic, but that's probably as much the "we don't do God" thing as anything else.

The "safe" religious views from a political standpoint are atheism (Clegg), agnosticism, or the mildest of cultural Christmas-Easter-and-Remembrance-Day church going in the denomination in which you were brought up (Cameron, May). Converting to Catholicism suggests you really mean it, which in turn invites endless "did you pray with the US president" and "what do you believe about homosexuality (or contraception if you convert to RC)" questions from a commentariat who find sincere belief in Christianity very weird indeed. Just ask Tim Farron.

I don't think it was his sincere belief in Christianity that was the problem, rather that it obviously influenced his politics on issues such as abortion and homosexuality, especially in a liberal party like the LDs. I can't recall the exact figures but something like 64 % of Brits thought religion shouldn't influence a politicians policies, only something like 18% thought it should. This was in poll a few years back. Would be interesting to know how and when these attitudes came about because obviously England was devout at some point in the past. Btw, May is devout, so too Brown and so was Thacher. All children of preacher/vicar and minister. Even Cameron seemed sincere in his Christian beliefs. In so far as there might be prejudice, i think Brown felt there was extra pressure to keep his faith private because him being Scottish Presbyterian would emphasize his Scottishness to English voters.

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:17 pmrather that it obviously influenced his politics on issues such as abortion and homosexuality

I don't think it did particularly. He said that he considered it vital to his Liberal politics that it should not do so. He supported gay marriage and current abortion rights.

I'd certainly find it difficult to vote for somebody who is openly religious.

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:17 pm

Mahoney wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:09 am Blair probably did hold out until he'd resigned before publicly being a Roman Catholic, but that's probably as much the "we don't do God" thing as anything else.

The "safe" religious views from a political standpoint are atheism (Clegg), agnosticism, or the mildest of cultural Christmas-Easter-and-Remembrance-Day church going in the denomination in which you were brought up (Cameron, May). Converting to Catholicism suggests you really mean it, which in turn invites endless "did you pray with the US president" and "what do you believe about homosexuality (or contraception if you convert to RC)" questions from a commentariat who find sincere belief in Christianity very weird indeed. Just ask Tim Farron.

I don't think it was his sincere belief in Christianity that was the problem, rather that it obviously influenced his politics on issues such as abortion and homosexuality, especially in a liberal party like the LDs. I can't recall the exact figures but something like 64 % of Brits thought religion shouldn't influence a politicians policies, only something like 18% thought it should. This was in poll a few years back. Would be interesting to know how and when these attitudes came about because obviously England was devout at some point in the past. Btw, May is devout, so too Brown and so was Thacher. All children of preacher/vicar and minister. Even Cameron seemed sincere in his Christian beliefs. In so far as there might be prejudice, i think Brown felt there was extra pressure to keep his faith private because him being Scottish Presbyterian would emphasize his Scottishness to English voters.

He never shut up about being raised in the manse!

Watch out Tofu sales! Sacked for "security reasons" and back a week later. Not even rearranging the deckchairs

Suella Braverman heading up Downing Street - she had asked to be home secretary again and source told
that she will be back there

SaintK wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:28 pm Watch out Tofu sales! Sacked for "security reasons" and back a week later. Not even rearranging the deckchairs

Suella Braverman heading up Downing Street - she had asked to be home secretary again and source told
that she will be back there

Less than 24 hours in and this. What a fucking shambles.

I'm actually speechless.

double

Mahoney wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:28 pm

Calculon wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:17 pmrather that it obviously influenced his politics on issues such as abortion and homosexuality

I don't think it did particularly. He said that he considered it vital to his Liberal politics that it should not do so. He supported gay marriage and current abortion rights.

Well, he voted against the sexual equality act and he abstained on the final homo marriage bill for which he received criticism from other LDs. He refused to say if homo sex was a sin, then did say it was not a sin, but as soon as he stepped down as leader he went back to saying it is a sin. He said abortion was wrong but then claimed to be pro abortion when he became LD leader. He also did vote yes on the failed bill to lower the abortion limit. So whatever he said , and did as far as voting, probably against his conscious, his faith did clearly influence his voting record at times, which along with his beliefs, caused unease amongst some LDs. But yes, I think Mays voting record was no "better" than his, but her faith, however devout, was of the cultural kind rather than the weird born again, babtised as an adult kind. The Tories are also more tolerant of those that hold "anti gay and abortion" views.

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:34 pm

SaintK wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:28 pm Watch out Tofu sales! Sacked for "security reasons" and back a week later. Not even rearranging the deckchairs

Suella Braverman heading up Downing Street - she had asked to be home secretary again and source told
that she will be back there

Less than 24 hours in and this. What a fucking shambles.

I'm actually speechless.

Oh well, if true then so much for trying to give Sunak a chance

Here's who we know has what so far:

Prime Minister Sunak's first appointment was to keep Jeremy Hunt as chancellor
Dominic Raab will return to the roles of deputy prime minister and justice secretary
James Cleverly and Ben Wallace have both retained their roles as foreign secretary and defence secretary
The new chief whip will be Simon Hart
Nadhim Zahawi has been appointed as the minister without portfolio and party chairman
We've seen the likes of Suella Braverman, Grant Shapps, Oliver Dowden, Steve Barclay, Therese Coffey, Michael Gove and Gillian Keegan go into No 10 but no more appointments as yet