So, coronavirus...

[Niegs]

Not directly related, but maybe you've heard of this convoy of 'truckers' (i.e. smaller percentage of truckers, larger percentage of anti-vaxxers/anti-mandates types in their various non-big rig vehicles, a few have displayed swastikas and white supremacist attitudes) in Canada protesting around the country?

They've been camped in Ottawa since Saturday, I think, making a nuisance of themselves. I did enjoy this update:

Brilliant but will fly over the heads of the truckers and their mates!

That's good!

Their nickname is also good:

https://twitter.com/FluTruxKlan

In addition to that and Karen Convoy, I've heard "Omicronvoy"

[troglodiet]

You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.

Look a bit deeper into Young's recent actions and another picture is emerging.

He sold most of the rights to his music recently to a company with some very dodgy connections - dodgier than anybody saying they got cured from Covid using medically prescribed Ivermectin.

Why don't you give us a link then?

https://youtu.be/dTn9cHGPmUw




But I bet the person giving the data will be attacked, not the message.



I love how it's "the good guys" wanting to censor everybody. That used to be the sole domain of the right. Now the ones against censorship are the Nazis. Apparently.

The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

Or is it because he has guests with opinions from all sides of the spectrum?

Or the fact that he says he managed to shake off C19 on his own, using medicines that apparently doesn't do anything, according to no studies? Medicine decried to him by a doctor btw.



The biggest problem as I see it, is that the woke C19 thing was politicised. The minute that happened, everybody got fucked in some way by some lying POS politician.

[Margin__Walker]

https://youtu.be/dTn9cHGPmUw




But I bet the person giving the data will be attacked, not the message.



I love how it's "the good guys" wanting to censor everybody. That used to be the sole domain of the right. Now the ones against censorship are the Nazis. Apparently.

The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

Or is it because he has guests with opinions from all sides of the spectrum?

Or the fact that he says he managed to shake off C19 on his own, using medicines that apparently doesn't do anything, according to no studies? Medicine decried to him by a doctor btw.



The biggest problem as I see it, is that the woke C19 thing was politicised. The minute that happened, everybody got fucked in some way by some lying POS politician.

I managed to shake off Covid without any medicine FFS. He would have too, as the vast majority of people do

[Guy Smiley]

I'm struggling to understand your position.

On one hand you profess distrust for Young's motivations in giving up (in his own estimation) 60% of his streaming income for a moral stand, the sort of thing he's done all his career.

On the other hand, you seem to have no problem at all with the stance of the company who are prepared to shell out $100 million to host a controversial podcaster whose presented material has been shown to be misleading at best and generally dishonest.

Pardon my cynicsm here but you strike me as just another corporate favouring conservative who hates hippies, as evidenced in your automatic categorising of Young.

I have no strong position in regards Spotify. It is what it is, just like Faece-book etc. i.e. massive media companies without ethics....... because that's how they make money. Whilst I dislike/hold contempt for such businesses, I can't affect them and so can't be arsed getting worked up over their existences. Frankly, they only exist because of the co-operation of their users. In the case of Spotify, users also include the very same artists who are making money and then (in some cases) subsequently posturing in regards their own payer's dubious ethics. IIRC, Young removed his works from Spotify and then reinstated them.

Tell me, do you use Spotify?

Ok... so big corporates are what they are and that's fine but cyncism over the perceived motivations of two musos, unsupported by any factual evidence, is fair and reasonable.

Gotcha.

[troglodiet]

I managed to shake off Covid without any medicine FFS. He would have too, as the vast majority of people do

Depending on who you ask, that post falls nicely into the "misinfo" category too.

The official right answer is that you MUST consult a doctor, who will advise you how and with what to treat the disease, based on the severity of your illness, your medical history, and other factors such as co-morbidities.

If you were Jimmy Dore, Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, Dave Rubin or a million other content creators, you could easily have been accused of misinformation, as some idiots may think you're advising against any medical intervention.

It's a fine line between opinion and disinformation these days.

[Margin__Walker]

I managed to shake off Covid without any medicine FFS. He would have too, as the vast majority of people do

Depending on who you ask, that post falls nicely into the "misinfo" category too.

The official right answer is that you MUST consult a doctor, who will advise you how and with what to treat the disease, based on the severity of your illness, your medical history, and other factors such as co-morbidities.

If you were Jimmy Dore, Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, Dave Rubin or a million other content creators, you could easily have been accused of misinformation, as some idiots may think you're advising against any medical intervention.

It's a fine line between opinion and disinformation these days.

UK link for that?

Thought not. More misinfo

[robmatic]

The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

Think they're mostly getting equated with Nazis because some of them are white nationalists prancing around with swastikas.

[troglodiet]

UK link for that?

Thought not. More misinfo

I'm not in or from the UK so wouldn't know.

That in itself proves how impossible it is to really define misinfo.

Hence the caveat: "depending on who you ask"

[troglodiet]

The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

Think they're mostly getting equated with Nazis because some of them are white nationalists prancing around with swastikas.

So some are Nazis, fair enough.

Does that make all of them Nazis then?

[Margin__Walker]

UK link for that?

Thought not. More misinfo

I'm not in or from the UK so wouldn't know.

That in itself proves how impossible it is to really define misinfo.

Hence the caveat: "depending on who you ask"

You're the one talking about official right answers chief.

[JM2K6]

Christ. More conspiracy theorists.

[robmatic]

The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

Think they're mostly getting equated with Nazis because some of them are white nationalists prancing around with swastikas.

So some are Nazis, fair enough.

Does that make all of them Nazis then?

Well, it makes the rest of them people who are happy to pal around with Nazis.

[Snooze]

And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/60199614

Just for starters. Misinformation would be the nicest term you could use. Lies and conspiracy theories is another.

[Happyhooker]

The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

Think they're mostly getting equated with Nazis because some of them are white nationalists prancing around with swastikas.

So some are Nazis, fair enough.

Does that make all of them Nazis then?

If you hang around with nazis, don't be surprised if you get called a nazi.

[Torquemada 1420]

I'm struggling to understand your position.

On one hand you profess distrust for Young's motivations in giving up (in his own estimation) 60% of his streaming income for a moral stand, the sort of thing he's done all his career.

On the other hand, you seem to have no problem at all with the stance of the company who are prepared to shell out $100 million to host a controversial podcaster whose presented material has been shown to be misleading at best and generally dishonest.

Pardon my cynicsm here but you strike me as just another corporate favouring conservative who hates hippies, as evidenced in your automatic categorising of Young.

I have no strong position in regards Spotify. It is what it is, just like Faece-book etc. i.e. massive media companies without ethics....... because that's how they make money. Whilst I dislike/hold contempt for such businesses, I can't affect them and so can't be arsed getting worked up over their existences. Frankly, they only exist because of the co-operation of their users. In the case of Spotify, users also include the very same artists who are making money and then (in some cases) subsequently posturing in regards their own payer's dubious ethics. IIRC, Young removed his works from Spotify and then reinstated them.

Tell me, do you use Spotify?

Ok... so big corporates are what they are and that's fine but cyncism over the perceived motivations of two musos, unsupported by any factual evidence, is fair and reasonable.

Gotcha.

Sorry. Was that "you do use Spotify" or "you don't use Spotify"?

[sockwithaticket]

I always had trog pegged as a fairly sensible bloke over on the other bored. This page has been a bit of a shock.

[CM11]

I managed to shake off Covid without any medicine FFS. He would have too, as the vast majority of people do

Depending on who you ask, that post falls nicely into the "misinfo" category too.

The official right answer is that you MUST consult a doctor, who will advise you how and with what to treat the disease, based on the severity of your illness, your medical history, and other factors such as co-morbidities.

If you were Jimmy Dore, Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, Dave Rubin or a million other content creators, you could easily have been accused of misinformation, as some idiots may think you're advising against any medical intervention.

It's a fine line between opinion and disinformation these days.

I'm trying to figure out if you're being satirical or are actually serious? I don't have a handle on your covid persona.

[Torquemada 1420]

And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/60199614

Just for starters. Misinformation would be the nicest term you could use. Lies and conspiracy theories is another.

He has a point. If the President of the US tells 350m subjects to inject bleach and is not "deplatformed", why should anyone else be?

[Snooze]

And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/60199614

Just for starters. Misinformation would be the nicest term you could use. Lies and conspiracy theories is another.

He has a point. If the President of the US tells 350m subjects to inject bleach and is not "deplatformed", why should anyone else be?

OK.

[JM2K6]

I managed to shake off Covid without any medicine FFS. He would have too, as the vast majority of people do

Depending on who you ask, that post falls nicely into the "misinfo" category too.

The official right answer is that you MUST consult a doctor, who will advise you how and with what to treat the disease, based on the severity of your illness, your medical history, and other factors such as co-morbidities.

If you were Jimmy Dore, Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, Dave Rubin or a million other content creators, you could easily have been accused of misinformation, as some idiots may think you're advising against any medical intervention.

It's a fine line between opinion and disinformation these days.

I'm trying to figure out if you're being satirical or are actually serious? I don't have a handle on your covid persona.

He believes this shit.

[Glaston]

And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/60199614

Just for starters. Misinformation would be the nicest term you could use. Lies and conspiracy theories is another.

And who checks the "Fact checkers" at the BBC?
They have biases too and are not 100% accurate themselves.

[Guy Smiley]

I have no strong position in regards Spotify. It is what it is, just like Faece-book etc. i.e. massive media companies without ethics....... because that's how they make money. Whilst I dislike/hold contempt for such businesses, I can't affect them and so can't be arsed getting worked up over their existences. Frankly, they only exist because of the co-operation of their users. In the case of Spotify, users also include the very same artists who are making money and then (in some cases) subsequently posturing in regards their own payer's dubious ethics. IIRC, Young removed his works from Spotify and then reinstated them.

Tell me, do you use Spotify?

Ok... so big corporates are what they are and that's fine but cyncism over the perceived motivations of two musos, unsupported by any factual evidence, is fair and reasonable.

Gotcha.

Sorry. Was that "you do use Spotify" or "you don't use Spotify"?

My individual habits involving the use of any of the web based conglomerates is entirely irrelevant to this discussion and your attempts to head off down that alley suggest your argument is in bad faith.

I just found it interesting that you'd express such disdain for the two musos and specifically suggest their motives were less than honest. You started off slurring their characters, with no real basis to it other than your feelings.

We've progressed far enough with this to see it won't go anywhere. I've no real judgement on any of it... your tastes are your own.

It's been an illuminating interlude. Keep on rockin' in the free world.

[Torquemada 1420]

Ok... so big corporates are what they are and that's fine but cyncism over the perceived motivations of two musos, unsupported by any factual evidence, is fair and reasonable.

Gotcha.

Sorry. Was that "you do use Spotify" or "you don't use Spotify"?

My individual habits involving the use of any of the web based conglomerates is entirely irrelevant to this discussion and your attempts to head off down that alley suggest your argument is in bad faith.

I just found it interesting that you'd express such disdain for the two musos and specifically suggest their motives were less than honest. You started off slurring their characters, with no real basis to it other than your feelings.

We've progressed far enough with this to see it won't go anywhere. I've no real judgement on any of it... your tastes are your own.

It's been an illuminating interlude. Keep on rockin' in the free world.

So that's a yes then?

[troglodiet]

I don't have a handle on your covid persona.

Finally somebody actually asks the right question.

The short answer is: I don't really hold specific views on the disease. I have been double-vaccinated, I wear a mask in places I have to (but I tend to avoid these places so not really an issue).

I am no medical doctor, I have no medical background, I did not even have Biology at school. If it comes to uninformed, I'm that person.

What I do feel strongly about, is the right of people to give their opinions, even if it differs from mine. In fact, I prefer to hear different opinions - a good argument can change my mind, or reinforce my own ideas.

I don't like the fact that the views of those who don't follow the official narrative, are labelled misinformation, or conspiracies. Who says the official narrative is true? Top medical professionals disagree, so how can a Facebook fact-checker decide what is and what's not misinformation? Not too long ago, even alluding that the virus escaped from the Wuhan lab turned you into a conspiracy theorist and you'd get banned from Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and others. Now it's the accepted theory. So were all those saying it definitely absolutely did not escape from teh Wuhan lab also guilty of misinformation?

And my main point: I am against censorship. Why do they want to deplatform or "cancel" people the whole time? I'm sure Young's music can co-exist with Rogan's podcast on the same platform? Hell, instead of this ultimatum, why didn't they have a nice chat like the ones Rogan have with people from all over the spectrum?

Welcome to the Free censored world eh?

[Biffer]

I don't have a handle on your covid persona.

Finally somebody actually asks the right question.

The short answer is: I don't really hold specific views on the disease. I have been double-vaccinated, I wear a mask in places I have to (but I tend to avoid these places so not really an issue).

I am no medical doctor, I have no medical background, I did not even have Biology at school. If it comes to uninformed, I'm that person.

What I do feel strongly about, is the right of people to give their opinions, even if it differs from mine. In fact, I prefer to hear different opinions - a good argument can change my mind, or reinforce my own ideas.

I don't like the fact that the views of those who don't follow the official narrative, are labelled misinformation, or conspiracies. Who says the official narrative is true? Top medical professionals disagree, so how can a Facebook fact-checker decide what is and what's not misinformation? Not too long ago, even alluding that the virus escaped from the Wuhan lab turned you into a conspiracy theorist and you'd get banned from Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and others. Now it's the accepted theory. So were all those saying it definitely absolutely did not escape from teh Wuhan lab also guilty of misinformation?

And my main point: I am against censorship. Why do they want to deplatform or "cancel" people the whole time? I'm sure Young's music can co-exist with Rogan's podcast on the same platform? Hell, instead of this ultimatum, why didn't they have a nice chat like the ones Rogan have with people from all over the spectrum?

Welcome to the Free censored world eh?

Since when is the lab escape theory broadly accepted?

It's not. And this is why people are viewing you and your posting as suspicious on the topic - you've just stated as fact, that it's the accepted theory that it escaped from a lab. That's fundamentally not true. It's not the accepted theory - the broadly accepted theory is that it was an animal spillover. That's the viewpoint of the overwhelming majority of medical researchers, virologists and organisations. And pointing at one or two people who say otherwise doesn't change the fact that the broadly accepted view is that it came from human animal interaction.

[sockwithaticket]

Opinion - Ben Youngs being in a position to overtake Jason Leonard as England's most capped international is a travesty.

Misinformation - Ivermectin is a valid treatment option for covid 19.


The problem with saying all views are valid and should be given the option to air is that the provenance of the individual and their information is often not provided to help the public effectively weigh up who and what they're listening to.

Platforming some views actively contributes to situations that negatively affect society as a whole.

There are so many heartbreaking accounts from medical staff of the abuse they experience from anit-vaxxers while simply attempting to treat them and then the fear and desperation that sets in with these people as it becomes clear that they're going to die. Rogan and his band of contrarians empower the self-harm of these people and place medical staff at risk. Airing their views is not harmless and they don't deserve to be treated with kid gloves.

[Slick]

I don't like the fact that the views of those who don't follow the official narrative, are labelled misinformation, or conspiracies. Who says the official narrative is true? Top medical professionals disagree

This is the problem, because, no they fucking don't.

99% + of health professionals agree on the "narrative" of Covid but some people like to give the -1% the same credence. At what point do you accept that the tiny minority are wrong/conspirators/crackpots/cunts, or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

The agreement is so overwhelmingly in favour of the "official narrative" in this case that it is perfectly legitimate to ignore the rest.

[troglodiet]

...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

[Slick]

...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

Ok, well you can sit and listen to QANON loons, flat earthers and lizard people believers, but I'll probably get on with my life safe in the knowledge that they are bonkers. Enjoy.

[Biffer]

...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

So people who think the pyramids were alien landing sites, all should be given a platform with equal access compared to serious historians?

[troglodiet]

...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

Ok, well you can sit and listen to QANON loons, flat earthers and lizard people believers, but I'll probably get on with my life safe in the knowledge that they are bonkers. Enjoy.

But that's exactly it!!!!

Your choice if you want to listen to them or not. Easy to go watch something else.

And believe it or not, I'm with you, I won't be listening to those lovely people you mentioned either (especially since some believe I'm part of the Lizard People [Peace be upon him]),

But living in echo chambers is causing more damage than the QAnon types.

[Slick]

Yes.

Ok, well you can sit and listen to QANON loons, flat earthers and lizard people believers, but I'll probably get on with my life safe in the knowledge that they are bonkers. Enjoy.

But that's exactly it!!!!

Your choice if you want to listen to them or not. Easy to go watch something else.

And believe it or not, I'm with you, I won't be listening to those lovely people you mentioned either (especially since some believe I'm part of the Lizard People [Peace be upon him]),

But living in echo chambers is causing more damage than the QAnon types.

It has nothing to do with echo chambers. Accepting the wisdom and expertise of an overwhelming majority of experts in a particular sector is not giving up independent thought, it's just fucking obvious.

Frankly, thinking you have cracked a puzzle differently, that just about every agrees on, by shouting about easily debunked theories is just juvenile attention seeking.

[CM11]

Trog

I initially commented on your ridiculous 'everyone has to consult a doctor and do exactly what they say' bullshit above. I presumed it was satire/sarcasm.

Most people get over Covid without any medicine, maybe paracetamol, and without consulting a doctor.

However, if you do need medical attention then of courses you should listen to your doctor rather than some 'opinion' on the Internet. When has what medicine you take for a particular illness been the subject of Internet group think? Particularly if that medicine is being advised off label?

As for your general point, medical opinion backed up by fact is fine. Medical opinion backed up by 'feelings' or 'gut' or individual anecdotes is incredibly dangerous.

As for fact checks, some are somewhat opinion based but most look at it from a factual, scientific point of view. For example, one recently where a paper was being used to further disinform only for the fact checkers to get comments from the papers' authors, in other words the people who did the actual research, which then debunked the opinion given.

Free speech is fine but a lot of the covid free speech is along the lines of saying the earth is flat and then when that gets debunked it's 'echo chamber this' and 'mainstream media' that.

[Biffer]

Trog

I initially commented on your ridiculous 'everyone has to consult a doctor and do exactly what they say' bullshit above. I presumed it was satire/sarcasm.

Most people get over Covid without any medicine, maybe paracetamol, and without consulting a doctor.

However, if you do need medical attention then of courses you should listen to your doctor rather than some 'opinion' on the Internet. When has what medicine you take for a particular illness been the subject of Internet group think? Particularly if that medicine is being advised off label?

As for your general point, medical opinion backed up by fact is fine. Medical opinion backed up by 'feelings' or 'gut' or individual anecdotes is incredibly dangerous.

As for fact checks, some are somewhat opinion based but most look at it from a factual, scientific point of view. For example, one recently where a paper was being used to further disinform only for the fact checkers to get comments from the papers' authors, in other words the people who did the actual research, which then debunked the opinion given.

Free speech is fine but a lot of the covid free speech is along the lines of saying the earth is flat and then when that gets debunked it's 'echo chamber this' and 'mainstream media' that.

Medical instruction in the UK is specifically not to contact your doctor

[Kiwias]

...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

Why does an overwhelming minority of total crazies deserve an equal airing in the media?

[Happyhooker]

...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

Why does an overwhelming minority of total crazies deserve an equal airing in the media?

Otherwise nobody would read a word he posts???????

[CM11]

Trog

I initially commented on your ridiculous 'everyone has to consult a doctor and do exactly what they say' bullshit above. I presumed it was satire/sarcasm.

Most people get over Covid without any medicine, maybe paracetamol, and without consulting a doctor.

However, if you do need medical attention then of courses you should listen to your doctor rather than some 'opinion' on the Internet. When has what medicine you take for a particular illness been the subject of Internet group think? Particularly if that medicine is being advised off label?

As for your general point, medical opinion backed up by fact is fine. Medical opinion backed up by 'feelings' or 'gut' or individual anecdotes is incredibly dangerous.

As for fact checks, some are somewhat opinion based but most look at it from a factual, scientific point of view. For example, one recently where a paper was being used to further disinform only for the fact checkers to get comments from the papers' authors, in other words the people who did the actual research, which then debunked the opinion given.

Free speech is fine but a lot of the covid free speech is along the lines of saying the earth is flat and then when that gets debunked it's 'echo chamber this' and 'mainstream media' that.

Medical instruction in the UK is specifically not to contact your doctor

Sorry, what?

[Biffer]

Trog

I initially commented on your ridiculous 'everyone has to consult a doctor and do exactly what they say' bullshit above. I presumed it was satire/sarcasm.

Most people get over Covid without any medicine, maybe paracetamol, and without consulting a doctor.

However, if you do need medical attention then of courses you should listen to your doctor rather than some 'opinion' on the Internet. When has what medicine you take for a particular illness been the subject of Internet group think? Particularly if that medicine is being advised off label?

As for your general point, medical opinion backed up by fact is fine. Medical opinion backed up by 'feelings' or 'gut' or individual anecdotes is incredibly dangerous.

As for fact checks, some are somewhat opinion based but most look at it from a factual, scientific point of view. For example, one recently where a paper was being used to further disinform only for the fact checkers to get comments from the papers' authors, in other words the people who did the actual research, which then debunked the opinion given.

Free speech is fine but a lot of the covid free speech is along the lines of saying the earth is flat and then when that gets debunked it's 'echo chamber this' and 'mainstream media' that.

Medical instruction in the UK is specifically not to contact your doctor

Sorry, what?

You test positive, you isolate.

If you take a turn for the worse then you contact the doc. If it's just bad cold symptoms, no need to bother the doc. If you're over a certain age they'll contact you to see if you're eligible for the ongoing trial of the antiviral drug treatments.

[CM11]

Sorry, we're on the same page. Didn't I say that already though?

[Biffer]

Sorry, we're on the same page. Didn't I say that already though?

Aye we are

Just backing you up