NPR

mat the expat wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:58 am

dpedin wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:07 am

Niegs wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:40 am Not directly related, but maybe you've heard of this convoy of 'truckers' (i.e. smaller percentage of truckers, larger percentage of anti-vaxxers/anti-mandates types in their various non-big rig vehicles, a few have displayed swastikas and white supremacist attitudes) in Canada protesting around the country?

They've been camped in Ottawa since Saturday, I think, making a nuisance of themselves. I did enjoy this update:

Brilliant but will fly over the heads of the truckers and their mates!

That's good!

Their nickname is also good:

https://twitter.com/FluTruxKlan

Calculon wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:21 am

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:09 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:34 pm
You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.

Look a bit deeper into Young's recent actions and another picture is emerging.

He sold most of the rights to his music recently to a company with some very dodgy connections - dodgier than anybody saying they got cured from Covid using medically prescribed Ivermectin.

Why don't you give us a link then?

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:07 pm

https://youtu.be/dTn9cHGPmUw




But I bet the person giving the data will be attacked, not the message.



I love how it's "the good guys" wanting to censor everybody. That used to be the sole domain of the right. Now the ones against censorship are the Nazis. Apparently.

The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

Or is it because he has guests with opinions from all sides of the spectrum?

Or the fact that he says he managed to shake off C19 on his own, using medicines that apparently doesn't do anything, according to no studies? Medicine decried to him by a doctor btw.



The biggest problem as I see it, is that the woke C19 thing was politicised. The minute that happened, everybody got fucked in some way by some lying POS politician.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:48 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:12 pm I'm struggling to understand your position.

On one hand you profess distrust for Young's motivations in giving up (in his own estimation) 60% of his streaming income for a moral stand, the sort of thing he's done all his career.

On the other hand, you seem to have no problem at all with the stance of the company who are prepared to shell out $100 million to host a controversial podcaster whose presented material has been shown to be misleading at best and generally dishonest.

Pardon my cynicsm here but you strike me as just another corporate favouring conservative who hates hippies, as evidenced in your automatic categorising of Young.

I have no strong position in regards Spotify. It is what it is, just like Faece-book etc. i.e. massive media companies without ethics....... because that's how they make money. Whilst I dislike/hold contempt for such businesses, I can't affect them and so can't be arsed getting worked up over their existences. Frankly, they only exist because of the co-operation of their users. In the case of Spotify, users also include the very same artists who are making money and then (in some cases) subsequently posturing in regards their own payer's dubious ethics. IIRC, Young removed his works from Spotify and then reinstated them.

Tell me, do you use Spotify?

Margin__Walker wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:10 pm

I managed to shake off Covid without any medicine FFS. He would have too, as the vast majority of people do

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:06 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:10 pm

I managed to shake off Covid without any medicine FFS. He would have too, as the vast majority of people do

Depending on who you ask, that post falls nicely into the "misinfo" category too.

The official right answer is that you MUST consult a doctor, who will advise you how and with what to treat the disease, based on the severity of your illness, your medical history, and other factors such as co-morbidities.

If you were Jimmy Dore, Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, Dave Rubin or a million other content creators, you could easily have been accused of misinformation, as some idiots may think you're advising against any medical intervention.

It's a fine line between opinion and disinformation these days.

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:07 pm
The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

Margin__Walker wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:08 pm

UK link for that?

Thought not. More misinfo

robmatic wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:24 pm

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:07 pm
The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

Think they're mostly getting equated with Nazis because some of them are white nationalists prancing around with swastikas.

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:27 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:08 pm

UK link for that?

Thought not. More misinfo

I'm not in or from the UK so wouldn't know.

That in itself proves how impossible it is to really define misinfo.

Hence the caveat: "depending on who you ask"

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:29 pm

robmatic wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:24 pm

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:07 pm
The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

Think they're mostly getting equated with Nazis because some of them are white nationalists prancing around with swastikas.

So some are Nazis, fair enough.

Does that make all of them Nazis then?

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:07 pm
And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:29 pm

robmatic wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:24 pm

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:07 pm
The truck drivers are against mandates. Why they should be equated to Nazis for this is a good question.

Think they're mostly getting equated with Nazis because some of them are white nationalists prancing around with swastikas.

So some are Nazis, fair enough.

Does that make all of them Nazis then?

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:57 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:48 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:12 pm I'm struggling to understand your position.

On one hand you profess distrust for Young's motivations in giving up (in his own estimation) 60% of his streaming income for a moral stand, the sort of thing he's done all his career.

On the other hand, you seem to have no problem at all with the stance of the company who are prepared to shell out $100 million to host a controversial podcaster whose presented material has been shown to be misleading at best and generally dishonest.

Pardon my cynicsm here but you strike me as just another corporate favouring conservative who hates hippies, as evidenced in your automatic categorising of Young.

I have no strong position in regards Spotify. It is what it is, just like Faece-book etc. i.e. massive media companies without ethics....... because that's how they make money. Whilst I dislike/hold contempt for such businesses, I can't affect them and so can't be arsed getting worked up over their existences. Frankly, they only exist because of the co-operation of their users. In the case of Spotify, users also include the very same artists who are making money and then (in some cases) subsequently posturing in regards their own payer's dubious ethics. IIRC, Young removed his works from Spotify and then reinstated them.

Tell me, do you use Spotify?

Ok... so big corporates are what they are and that's fine but cyncism over the perceived motivations of two musos, unsupported by any factual evidence, is fair and reasonable.

Gotcha.

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:06 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:10 pm

I managed to shake off Covid without any medicine FFS. He would have too, as the vast majority of people do

Depending on who you ask, that post falls nicely into the "misinfo" category too.

The official right answer is that you MUST consult a doctor, who will advise you how and with what to treat the disease, based on the severity of your illness, your medical history, and other factors such as co-morbidities.

If you were Jimmy Dore, Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, Dave Rubin or a million other content creators, you could easily have been accused of misinformation, as some idiots may think you're advising against any medical intervention.

It's a fine line between opinion and disinformation these days.

Snooze wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:48 pm

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:07 pm
And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/60199614

Just for starters. Misinformation would be the nicest term you could use. Lies and conspiracy theories is another.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:15 pm

Snooze wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:48 pm

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:07 pm
And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/60199614

Just for starters. Misinformation would be the nicest term you could use. Lies and conspiracy theories is another.

He has a point. If the President of the US tells 350m subjects to inject bleach and is not "deplatformed", why should anyone else be?

CM11 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:14 pm

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:06 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:10 pm

I managed to shake off Covid without any medicine FFS. He would have too, as the vast majority of people do

Depending on who you ask, that post falls nicely into the "misinfo" category too.

The official right answer is that you MUST consult a doctor, who will advise you how and with what to treat the disease, based on the severity of your illness, your medical history, and other factors such as co-morbidities.

If you were Jimmy Dore, Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, Dave Rubin or a million other content creators, you could easily have been accused of misinformation, as some idiots may think you're advising against any medical intervention.

It's a fine line between opinion and disinformation these days.

I'm trying to figure out if you're being satirical or are actually serious? I don't have a handle on your covid persona.

Snooze wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:48 pm

troglodiet wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:07 pm
And what exactly did Joe Rogan say that should cause him to be de-platformed? Having a different opinion to the norm? There is a massive difference between disinfo and difference of opinion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/60199614

Just for starters. Misinformation would be the nicest term you could use. Lies and conspiracy theories is another.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:11 pm

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:57 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:48 am
I have no strong position in regards Spotify. It is what it is, just like Faece-book etc. i.e. massive media companies without ethics....... because that's how they make money. Whilst I dislike/hold contempt for such businesses, I can't affect them and so can't be arsed getting worked up over their existences. Frankly, they only exist because of the co-operation of their users. In the case of Spotify, users also include the very same artists who are making money and then (in some cases) subsequently posturing in regards their own payer's dubious ethics. IIRC, Young removed his works from Spotify and then reinstated them.

Tell me, do you use Spotify?

Ok... so big corporates are what they are and that's fine but cyncism over the perceived motivations of two musos, unsupported by any factual evidence, is fair and reasonable.

Gotcha.

Sorry. Was that "you do use Spotify" or "you don't use Spotify"?

Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:18 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:11 pm

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:57 pm


Ok... so big corporates are what they are and that's fine but cyncism over the perceived motivations of two musos, unsupported by any factual evidence, is fair and reasonable.

Gotcha.

Sorry. Was that "you do use Spotify" or "you don't use Spotify"?

My individual habits involving the use of any of the web based conglomerates is entirely irrelevant to this discussion and your attempts to head off down that alley suggest your argument is in bad faith.

I just found it interesting that you'd express such disdain for the two musos and specifically suggest their motives were less than honest. You started off slurring their characters, with no real basis to it other than your feelings.

We've progressed far enough with this to see it won't go anywhere. I've no real judgement on any of it... your tastes are your own.

It's been an illuminating interlude. Keep on rockin' in the free world.

CM11 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:14 pm I don't have a handle on your covid persona.

troglodiet wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:39 am

CM11 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:14 pm I don't have a handle on your covid persona.

Finally somebody actually asks the right question.

The short answer is: I don't really hold specific views on the disease. I have been double-vaccinated, I wear a mask in places I have to (but I tend to avoid these places so not really an issue).

I am no medical doctor, I have no medical background, I did not even have Biology at school. If it comes to uninformed, I'm that person.

What I do feel strongly about, is the right of people to give their opinions, even if it differs from mine. In fact, I prefer to hear different opinions - a good argument can change my mind, or reinforce my own ideas.

I don't like the fact that the views of those who don't follow the official narrative, are labelled misinformation, or conspiracies. Who says the official narrative is true? Top medical professionals disagree, so how can a Facebook fact-checker decide what is and what's not misinformation? Not too long ago, even alluding that the virus escaped from the Wuhan lab turned you into a conspiracy theorist and you'd get banned from Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and others. Now it's the accepted theory. So were all those saying it definitely absolutely did not escape from teh Wuhan lab also guilty of misinformation?

And my main point: I am against censorship. Why do they want to deplatform or "cancel" people the whole time? I'm sure Young's music can co-exist with Rogan's podcast on the same platform? Hell, instead of this ultimatum, why didn't they have a nice chat like the ones Rogan have with people from all over the spectrum?

Welcome to the Free censored world eh?

I don't like the fact that the views of those who don't follow the official narrative, are labelled misinformation, or conspiracies. Who says the official narrative is true? Top medical professionals disagree

Slick wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:32 am...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

troglodiet wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:53 am

Slick wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:32 am...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

troglodiet wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:53 am

Slick wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:32 am...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

Slick wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:57 am

troglodiet wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:53 am

Slick wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:32 am...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

Ok, well you can sit and listen to QANON loons, flat earthers and lizard people believers, but I'll probably get on with my life safe in the knowledge that they are bonkers. Enjoy.

troglodiet wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:03 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:57 am

troglodiet wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:53 am

Yes.

Ok, well you can sit and listen to QANON loons, flat earthers and lizard people believers, but I'll probably get on with my life safe in the knowledge that they are bonkers. Enjoy.

But that's exactly it!!!!

Your choice if you want to listen to them or not. Easy to go watch something else.

And believe it or not, I'm with you, I won't be listening to those lovely people you mentioned either (especially since some believe I'm part of the Lizard People [Peace be upon him]),

But living in echo chambers is causing more damage than the QAnon types.

CM11 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:48 pm Trog

I initially commented on your ridiculous 'everyone has to consult a doctor and do exactly what they say' bullshit above. I presumed it was satire/sarcasm.

Most people get over Covid without any medicine, maybe paracetamol, and without consulting a doctor.

However, if you do need medical attention then of courses you should listen to your doctor rather than some 'opinion' on the Internet. When has what medicine you take for a particular illness been the subject of Internet group think? Particularly if that medicine is being advised off label?

As for your general point, medical opinion backed up by fact is fine. Medical opinion backed up by 'feelings' or 'gut' or individual anecdotes is incredibly dangerous.

As for fact checks, some are somewhat opinion based but most look at it from a factual, scientific point of view. For example, one recently where a paper was being used to further disinform only for the fact checkers to get comments from the papers' authors, in other words the people who did the actual research, which then debunked the opinion given.

Free speech is fine but a lot of the covid free speech is along the lines of saying the earth is flat and then when that gets debunked it's 'echo chamber this' and 'mainstream media' that.

troglodiet wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:53 am

Slick wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:32 am...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

Kiwias wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:54 pm

troglodiet wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:53 am

Slick wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:32 am...or do we always have to give any and every dissenting voice an equal platform?

Yes.

Why does an overwhelming minority of total crazies deserve an equal airing in the media?

Biffer wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:52 pm

CM11 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:48 pm Trog

I initially commented on your ridiculous 'everyone has to consult a doctor and do exactly what they say' bullshit above. I presumed it was satire/sarcasm.

Most people get over Covid without any medicine, maybe paracetamol, and without consulting a doctor.

However, if you do need medical attention then of courses you should listen to your doctor rather than some 'opinion' on the Internet. When has what medicine you take for a particular illness been the subject of Internet group think? Particularly if that medicine is being advised off label?

As for your general point, medical opinion backed up by fact is fine. Medical opinion backed up by 'feelings' or 'gut' or individual anecdotes is incredibly dangerous.

As for fact checks, some are somewhat opinion based but most look at it from a factual, scientific point of view. For example, one recently where a paper was being used to further disinform only for the fact checkers to get comments from the papers' authors, in other words the people who did the actual research, which then debunked the opinion given.

Free speech is fine but a lot of the covid free speech is along the lines of saying the earth is flat and then when that gets debunked it's 'echo chamber this' and 'mainstream media' that.

Medical instruction in the UK is specifically not to contact your doctor

CM11 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:57 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:52 pm

CM11 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:48 pm Trog

I initially commented on your ridiculous 'everyone has to consult a doctor and do exactly what they say' bullshit above. I presumed it was satire/sarcasm.

Most people get over Covid without any medicine, maybe paracetamol, and without consulting a doctor.

However, if you do need medical attention then of courses you should listen to your doctor rather than some 'opinion' on the Internet. When has what medicine you take for a particular illness been the subject of Internet group think? Particularly if that medicine is being advised off label?

As for your general point, medical opinion backed up by fact is fine. Medical opinion backed up by 'feelings' or 'gut' or individual anecdotes is incredibly dangerous.

As for fact checks, some are somewhat opinion based but most look at it from a factual, scientific point of view. For example, one recently where a paper was being used to further disinform only for the fact checkers to get comments from the papers' authors, in other words the people who did the actual research, which then debunked the opinion given.

Free speech is fine but a lot of the covid free speech is along the lines of saying the earth is flat and then when that gets debunked it's 'echo chamber this' and 'mainstream media' that.

Medical instruction in the UK is specifically not to contact your doctor

Sorry, what?

CM11 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:28 pm Sorry, we're on the same page. Didn't I say that already though?