Official Lions selection, moaning and bitching thread

[Lobby]

Thanks, but no thanks Warren! Time for someone else to have a crack.

Warren Gatland has been told by the British & Irish Lions hierarchy that the job of head coach for the 2025 tour of Australia is his if he wants it, despite the series defeat by South Africa. Gatland refused to rule out a fourth tour as head coach in the aftermath of the defeat by the Springboks and he has subsequently received the firm backing of the Lions chairman, Jason Leonard, and the managing director, Ben Calveley.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... lia-tour

Oh Jesus, I really hope this isn’t true. The man now has the complete set of Lions tours, let someone else have a shot. Especially after some of the ‘rugby’ we’ve been forced to watch.

Another Guardian article has some more encouraging quotes:

“How interesting, then, to hear the backs coach Gregor Townsend discussing the future direction of the game as the Lions prepared to go their different ways…. “I believe the game has already moved to an era when 10s have to be attackers,” said Townsend, praising both Russell and the fast-improving Marcus Smith whom he already considers to be “one of the best attacking 10s in the world” and a blossoming England star. “We’ve seen players like Richie Mo’unga, we’ve seen Finn last night … those are the 10s who put defences under pressure. I do believe their way of playing can win games.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... ew-favours

[SaintK]

Thanks, but no thanks Warren! Time for someone else to have a crack.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... lia-tour

Oh Jesus, I really hope this isn’t true. The man now has the complete set of Lions tours, let someone else have a shot. Especially after some of the ‘rugby’ we’ve been forced to watch.

Another Guardian article has some more encouraging quotes:

“How interesting, then, to hear the backs coach Gregor Townsend discussing the future direction of the game as the Lions prepared to go their different ways…. “I believe the game has already moved to an era when 10s have to be attackers,” said Townsend, praising both Russell and the fast-improving Marcus Smith whom he already considers to be “one of the best attacking 10s in the world” and a blossoming England star. “We’ve seen players like Richie Mo’unga, we’ve seen Finn last night … those are the 10s who put defences under pressure. I do believe their way of playing can win games.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... ew-favours

If Townsend continues to have success in developing Scotland, I'd have no problem having him as head coach in 4 years time.
He's experienced a Lions tour both as a player and a coach so knows what is expected.

[Yr Alban]

It is time for a change for the Lions.

Amen to that. I haven’t paid a lot of attention to the last few tours because, fairly or unfairly (let’s not start that argument again), I didn’t feel represented in the squad and I didn’t have skin in the game. This time was different, obviously. But if it’s Gatland yet again next time round, I won’t bother to watch, no matter who he picks. The rugby is just too awful.

[Slick]

I think some of the comments on Gatland are a bit harsh. It's historically very difficult for the Lions to win a series and his record is pretty reasonable, this one was just a clusterfuck from start to finish really.

I think we would all like to see the Lions throwing the ball about and sticking to a running style, but if they don't win in the modern era then suddenly people are asking if there really should be a Lions any longer. Also the fact that as someone mentioned earlier, which decent coaches are available for a year before and willing to give up jobs for it?

In saying that, it is definately time for a change, another Gatland tour would be bad for the Lions.

[Cartman]

THAT draw and pass



Dodged a bullet there!

[Big D]

I think some of the comments on Gatland are a bit harsh. It's historically very difficult for the Lions to win a series and his record is pretty reasonable, this one was just a clusterfuck from start to finish really.

I think we would all like to see the Lions throwing the ball about and sticking to a running style, but if they don't win in the modern era then suddenly people are asking if there really should be a Lions any longer. Also the fact that as someone mentioned earlier, which decent coaches are available for a year before and willing to give up jobs for it?

In saying that, it is definately time for a change, another Gatland tour would be bad for the Lions.

The Aussie tours from memory are usually a bit more open. Plus if they still have Taylor as D coach and the Lions go with Smith/Russell then I think we'll score plenty.

[Monk]

THAT draw and pass



Dodged a bullet there!

Malherbe had that covered

[dpedin]

THAT draw and pass



Dodged a bullet there!

Malherbe had that covered

Beautiful fast, flat pass from Russell to exploit the overlap.

[Blackmac]

THAT draw and pass



Dodged a bullet there!

It's incredibly bad for a top class pro. He must have seen that trying to cut inside he was running into the Springbok cover.

[Cartman]

THAT draw and pass



Dodged a bullet there!

Malherbe had that covered

Beautiful fast, flat pass from Russell to exploit the overlap.

Yeah amazing passer
That one from a few years ago is still my favourite
Think it was in that Twickenham comeback game?

[Cartman]

This one:

[Slick]

THAT draw and pass



Dodged a bullet there!

It's incredibly bad for a top class pro. He must have seen that trying to cut inside he was running into the Springbok cover.

I think he must have spotted that there was oceans of space inside the last defender but made his step inside too late. It was the wrong decision anyway but that's all I can think of.

[Monk]

THAT draw and pass



Dodged a bullet there!

It's incredibly bad for a top class pro. He must have seen that trying to cut inside he was running into the Springbok cover.

I think he must have spotted that there was oceans of space inside the last defender but made his step inside too late. It was the wrong decision anyway but that's all I can think of.

le Roux did the right thing there - tackle the ball carrier

[Biffer]

This one:

Murrayfield 2018.

The thing you don’t get on the TV is the way the whole stadium kind of took a deep breath and a mental ‘oh shit’ at the same time, and then erupted as Huw Jones caught it at top speed.

[Slick]

This one:

Murrayfield 2018.

The thing you don’t get on the TV is the way the whole stadium kind of took a deep breath AMD a ,metal ‘oh shit’ at the same time, and then erupted as Huw Jones caught it at top speed.

Yeah, it was an amazing moment

[Slick]

It's incredibly bad for a top class pro. He must have seen that trying to cut inside he was running into the Springbok cover.

I think he must have spotted that there was oceans of space inside the last defender but made his step inside too late. It was the wrong decision anyway but that's all I can think of.

le Roux did the right thing there - tackle the ball carrier

First thing you learn as a kid

[Chilli]

To be fair and honest, if the Lions played a more open, attacking game it would have been difficult for the Boks to drag them down into the gutter.

You played gutter rugby, which is what we are the best at.

Russel is a bloody amazing attacking 10, so is Smith.

Gatland got everything wrong.

[Gumboot]

You played gutter rugby, which is what we are the best at.

Must...resist...

[Biffer]

Just for the people who think we Scots have a persecution complex. According to the Times ratings, Stuart Hogg was the worst player on the tour. Only player to get less than 5/10.

[ASMO]

To be fair and honest, if the Lions played a more open, attacking game it would have been difficult for the Boks to drag them down into the gutter.

You played gutter rugby, which is what we are the best at.

Russel is a bloody amazing attacking 10, so is Smith.

Gatland got everything wrong.

100% this

[JM2K6]

Just for the people who think we Scots have a persecution complex. According to the Times ratings, Stuart Hogg was the worst player on the tour. Only player to get less than 5/10.

Stephen Jones?

[Biffer]

Just for the people who think we Scots have a persecution complex. According to the Times ratings, Stuart Hogg was the worst player on the tour. Only player to get less than 5/10.

Stephen Jones?

Owen Slot.

[SaintK]

Just for the people who think we Scots have a persecution complex. According to the Times ratings, Stuart Hogg was the worst player on the tour. Only player to get less than 5/10.

Stephen Jones?

Owen Slot.

Hogg received 2 stars out of 5 from Robert Kitson in The Guardian!! But there again so did a number of other test match players
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021 ... a-series

[Begbie]

Just for the people who think we Scots have a persecution complex. According to the Times ratings, Stuart Hogg was the worst player on the tour. Only player to get less than 5/10.

Stephen Jones?

Owen Slot.

Is that the same guy who had a pop at Hogg's performance in the game v South Africa A, even though he didn't play that day?

[Slick]

Just for the people who think we Scots have a persecution complex. According to the Times ratings, Stuart Hogg was the worst player on the tour. Only player to get less than 5/10.

Stephen Jones?

Owen Slot.

Is this today? Can't find it online

[JM2K6]

You should see Ruck's tour rankings. Genuinely baffling.

Rugby is not well served by its journalists.

[Biffer]

You should see Ruck's tour rankings. Genuinely baffling.

Rugby is not well served by its journalists.

I think it's because so many of them played in the amateur era. Little understanding of the modern game.

[Biffer]

Stephen Jones?

Owen Slot.

Is this today? Can't find it online

Think it was yesterday

[dpedin]

Owen Slot.

Is this today? Can't find it online

Think it was yesterday

Wow - Williams who commits a schoolboy error and can't execute a simple 2 on 1 and then frisks Kolbe instead of tackling him to concede the match deciding try in the series deciding match gets 5 points! Cant remember Hogg being quite so bad as Williams yet gets a 4 compared to his 5! And they wonder why we Scots get slightly miffed.

[Brazil]

People still take hacks' player ratings seriously? It's the very definition of money for old rope.

[salanya]

When LRZ gets a 5 for not playing for weeks, then you know these journalists haven't the foggiest. Shocking that these people actually get paid for producing this drivel.

Fully agree with Chili on Gatland's awful gameplan and selections. With a great defence coach he has done good things for Wales, but he's never been a great Lions coach.

And for Biffer: Hogg has been shite. Not the worst player in the squad, but he's not in good form and was poor on this tour.

[Biffer]

When LRZ gets a 5 for not playing for weeks, then you know these journalists haven't the foggiest. Shocking that these people actually get paid for producing this drivel.

Fully agree with Chili on Gatland's awful gameplan and selections. With a great defence coach he has done good things for Wales, but he's never been a great Lions coach.

And for Biffer: Hogg has been shite. Not the worst player in the squad, but he's not in good form and was poor on this tour.

Oh, absolutely, he’s been poor. I’m just providing an example of how journalists down south have been relentlessly targeting him.

Guaranteed that at the start of this upcoming season, there will be all sorts of pish about ‘redeeming himself’ and a ‘disastrous’ tour, which won’t be applied to other players.

[JM2K6]

I suspect some of this is more that lots was expected from Hogg and he failed to deliver. Agree the scores are obviously too harsh, but I'm not seeing an anti-Scottish angle in there, given that Slot ranks Russell & Price very highly, and is fair on VDM and Harris.

[Cartman]

I feel the selections were pretty much spot on pre-tour but unfortunately some players couldn't play themselves back into form like they usually can with more games on tour. I remember JD wasn't in great form before the last tour but ended up man of the series didnt he?

It was just a clusterfuck tour and in the end one team got one more penalty at the right time.

[dpedin]

I suspect some of this is more that lots was expected from Hogg and he failed to deliver. Agree the scores are obviously too harsh, but I'm not seeing an anti-Scottish angle in there, given that Slot ranks Russell & Price very highly, and is fair on VDM and Harris.

Its the relative scores of Hogg and Williams that grate - whilst Hogg didn't play well and missed catches in the 2nd test I can't remember him failing to execute a simple 2 on 1 and miss a tackle to concede a try in the same way as Williams did in the 3rd. If Hogg was a 4 then Williams deserved a 3 for theses two errors alone!

[ASMO]

I suspect some of this is more that lots was expected from Hogg and he failed to deliver. Agree the scores are obviously too harsh, but I'm not seeing an anti-Scottish angle in there, given that Slot ranks Russell & Price very highly, and is fair on VDM and Harris.

Its the relative scores of Hogg and Williams that grate - whilst Hogg didn't play well and missed catches in the 2nd test I can't remember him failing to execute a simple 2 on 1 and miss a tackle to concede a try in the same way as Williams did in the 3rd. If Hogg was a 4 then Williams deserved a 3 for theses two errors alone!

Very much agree with this, i would add his mark should be lowered even further given that everyone was saying he was best in the world at catching balls, will be the saviour of the Lions etc etc and he fucked that up royally too.

[JM2K6]

I suspect some of this is more that lots was expected from Hogg and he failed to deliver. Agree the scores are obviously too harsh, but I'm not seeing an anti-Scottish angle in there, given that Slot ranks Russell & Price very highly, and is fair on VDM and Harris.

Its the relative scores of Hogg and Williams that grate - whilst Hogg didn't play well and missed catches in the 2nd test I can't remember him failing to execute a simple 2 on 1 and miss a tackle to concede a try in the same way as Williams did in the 3rd. If Hogg was a 4 then Williams deserved a 3 for theses two errors alone!

You'll find that the missed tackle is only a huge negative for a small minority of people - the rest just accept that it was Kolbe in space. But again, while I agree that the comparative scores don't make much sense, not as much was expected of Williams and that does impact these dumb ratings that journos give.

[Monk]

you boykies moaning about selections?

imagine how we felt in 97 - where the Boks outscored the Lions 10 tries to 3 and lost for lack of a recognised kicker

the Morne Steyn selection shows we will not easily make that same mistake again

[JM2K6]

No, we're moaning about journalists and how they rate players.

[Gumboot]

you boykies moaning about selections?

imagine how we felt in 97 - where the Boks outscored the Lions 10 tries to 3 and lost for lack of a recognised kicker

the Morne Steyn selection shows we will not easily make that same mistake again

This year's Lions only managed 2 tries in the entire series - both to hookers and both from driving mauls. Shit selections and timid tactics pretty much rendered their attack toothless. And yet your lot still managed to just squeak home. Hmmm...