NPR

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:03 pm With the 10 team talk not going anywhere that increasingly suggests Newcastle are being lined up as the lamb to be slaughtered.

fishfoodie wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:20 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:03 pm With the 10 team talk not going anywhere that increasingly suggests Newcastle are being lined up as the lamb to be slaughtered.

How low can the League go ?

I mean the pips are already squeaking with the loss of two teams, & their fixtures & the associated gates, so how will losing another fixture possibly be sustained ?

BT, & the ERC, must have clauses in their contracts that link the money they pay out, to the participation, & if the league drops 20% of teams, it's not unreasonable that the broadcasters would reduce their payments by a similar ratio ?

It's a rare case of the Politicians actually doing their jobs & calling the inevitable, potential disaster, & telling the administrators they need to act, & act fast !

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:33 am

fishfoodie wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:20 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:03 pm With the 10 team talk not going anywhere that increasingly suggests Newcastle are being lined up as the lamb to be slaughtered.

How low can the League go ?

I mean the pips are already squeaking with the loss of two teams, & their fixtures & the associated gates, so how will losing another fixture possibly be sustained ?

BT, & the ERC, must have clauses in their contracts that link the money they pay out, to the participation, & if the league drops 20% of teams, it's not unreasonable that the broadcasters would reduce their payments by a similar ratio ?

It's a rare case of the Politicians actually doing their jobs & calling the inevitable, potential disaster, & telling the administrators they need to act, & act fast !

Probably to 10 teams. There's a rumour that there's one other side with financial issues but that's just speculation. On TV rights I'm not sure it matters so much - a 10 team league means there doesn't need to be any games during international windows, I can't imagine that a Sunday lunchtime kick off the day after England have played is drawing in BT's larger viewing numbers, and these weekends are a general drag on attendances and therefore ticket/bar/food sales etc anyway. BT never televised Worcester anyway!

In terms of 'we need to act' - what's the solution? Crowds are pretty healthy across the league, there's a good tv deal, the on field product is good and salaries are coming down. The challenge is particularly acute due to covid debts, if the clubs can weather this they ought to be fine in the medium term.

When we look at other club models:
Wales is in a worse state on any metric
France has more resources and men willing to chuck their cash at teams
Scotland has two pro sides underwritten by their governing body, both with average to poor attendances compared to almost all English clubs
Ireland has unique and well discussed advantages, England can't and won't copy the model

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:33 am

fishfoodie wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:20 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:03 pm With the 10 team talk not going anywhere that increasingly suggests Newcastle are being lined up as the lamb to be slaughtered.

How low can the League go ?

I mean the pips are already squeaking with the loss of two teams, & their fixtures & the associated gates, so how will losing another fixture possibly be sustained ?

BT, & the ERC, must have clauses in their contracts that link the money they pay out, to the participation, & if the league drops 20% of teams, it's not unreasonable that the broadcasters would reduce their payments by a similar ratio ?

It's a rare case of the Politicians actually doing their jobs & calling the inevitable, potential disaster, & telling the administrators they need to act, & act fast !

Probably to 10 teams. There's a rumour that there's one other side with financial issues but that's just speculation. On TV rights I'm not sure it matters so much - a 10 team league means there doesn't need to be any games during international windows, I can't imagine that a Sunday lunchtime kick off the day after England have played is drawing in BT's larger viewing numbers, and these weekends are a general drag on attendances and therefore ticket/bar/food sales etc anyway. BT never televised Worcester anyway!

In terms of 'we need to act' - what's the solution? Crowds are pretty healthy across the league, there's a good tv deal, the on field product is good and salaries are coming down. The challenge is particularly acute due to covid debts, if the clubs can weather this they ought to be fine in the medium term.

When we look at other club models:
Wales is in a worse state on any metric
France has more resources and men willing to chuck their cash at teams
Scotland has two pro sides underwritten by their governing body, both with average to poor attendances compared to almost all English clubs
Ireland has unique and well discussed advantages, England can't and won't copy the model

SaintK wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:46 am Alex Codling named as new head coach at Falcons.
An odd choice as apart from a couple of seasons at Ealing as lead coach, his main experiences have been as a forwards coach.
He certainly didn't alst long as part of Jones's England set up and has flitted between jobs and is currently at Oyonnax in Pro D2
I just wonder if he fitted Falcon'ss budget allowance for the job?

Margin__Walker wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:11 am Codling not actually confirmed yet by the club. Just a rugbypass article linking him.

Albeit it probably is true.

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:02 am

SaintK wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:46 am Alex Codling named as new head coach at Falcons.
An odd choice as apart from a couple of seasons at Ealing as lead coach, his main experiences have been as a forwards coach.
He certainly didn't alst long as part of Jones's England set up and has flitted between jobs and is currently at Oyonnax in Pro D2
I just wonder if he fitted Falcon'ss budget allowance for the job?

Used to coach Barking as well (who just finished bottom of Counties 2 Essex - level 9 league on -3pts)

Raggs wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 9:18 am Jack Willis staying with Toulouse until 2026. He is available for the world cup though. So a couple of years in France, but back again for 2027 if he fancies it perhaps.

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:14 am Fascinated by this Charlie Ewels move to the Bulls. Wonder how he'll get on.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:15 am

Raggs wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 9:18 am Jack Willis staying with Toulouse until 2026. He is available for the world cup though. So a couple of years in France, but back again for 2027 if he fancies it perhaps.

We know Borthwick wants changes to what's permissible. A bit shitty the RFU aren't telling Borthers to do one in this or letting the players know what the situation will be ahead of signing contracts.

Slick wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:50 pm Also, I'm not sure I know of any player that hasn't gone to France and absolutely loved it, seems a great thing to do for a few seasons in a short career whatever your ambitions.

Apart from Sexton, but that probably says more about him than them.

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:41 pm It's basically Willis + the Exeter lot, right? I'm not seeing the exodus either.

Willis I can completely understand, he's been burned by the Wasps collapse and his own personal injury history.

inactionman wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:53 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:41 pm It's basically Willis + the Exeter lot, right? I'm not seeing the exodus either.

Willis I can completely understand, he's been burned by the Wasps collapse and his own personal injury history.

Marchant as well.

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:41 pm It's basically Willis + the Exeter lot, right? I'm not seeing the exodus either.

Willis I can completely understand, he's been burned by the Wasps collapse and his own personal injury history.

Slick wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:50 pm Also, I'm not sure I know of any player that hasn't gone to France and absolutely loved it, seems a great thing to do for a few seasons in a short career whatever your ambitions.

Apart from Sexton, but that probably says more about him than them.

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:57 pm

Slick wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:50 pm Also, I'm not sure I know of any player that hasn't gone to France and absolutely loved it, seems a great thing to do for a few seasons in a short career whatever your ambitions.

Apart from Sexton, but that probably says more about him than them.

Rhys Webb was trying to get out of his Toulon contract almost as soon as he signed it and JD2 seemed pretty keen to come back from Clermont, but then the Welsh don't seem to travel very well. Jamie Roberts is probably the only one who's strayed particularly far from the Severn and done well. The other Welsh leavers who can stick it out don't seem to venture further than the West Country.

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:57 pm

Slick wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:50 pm Also, I'm not sure I know of any player that hasn't gone to France and absolutely loved it, seems a great thing to do for a few seasons in a short career whatever your ambitions.

Apart from Sexton, but that probably says more about him than them.

Rhys Webb was trying to get out of his Toulon contract almost as soon as he signed it and JD2 seemed pretty keen to come back from Clermont, but then the Welsh don't seem to travel very well. Jamie Roberts is probably the only one who's strayed particularly far from the Severn and done well. The other Welsh leavers who can stick it out don't seem to venture further than the West Country.

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:01 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:57 pm

Slick wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:50 pm Also, I'm not sure I know of any player that hasn't gone to France and absolutely loved it, seems a great thing to do for a few seasons in a short career whatever your ambitions.

Apart from Sexton, but that probably says more about him than them.

Rhys Webb was trying to get out of his Toulon contract almost as soon as he signed it and JD2 seemed pretty keen to come back from Clermont, but then the Welsh don't seem to travel very well. Jamie Roberts is probably the only one who's strayed particularly far from the Severn and done well. The other Welsh leavers who can stick it out don't seem to venture further than the West Country.

Roberts made money, but I can't in good conscience say he did well outside of Wales for anyone...

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:03 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:01 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:57 pm

Rhys Webb was trying to get out of his Toulon contract almost as soon as he signed it and JD2 seemed pretty keen to come back from Clermont, but then the Welsh don't seem to travel very well. Jamie Roberts is probably the only one who's strayed particularly far from the Severn and done well. The other Welsh leavers who can stick it out don't seem to venture further than the West Country.

Roberts made money, but I can't in good conscience say he did well outside of Wales for anyone...

By doing well I mean, was able to stick around and put in some effort (albeit not with the impact that might have been desired) without apparently being homesick and needing to slink back home asap.

SaintK wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:10 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:03 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:01 pm

Roberts made money, but I can't in good conscience say he did well outside of Wales for anyone...

By doing well I mean, was able to stick around and put in some effort (albeit not with the impact that might have been desired) without apparently being homesick and needing to slink back home asap.

Will be interesting to see how Dan Biggar and his family settle in Toulon. If I remember correctly Rhys Webb's family were very homesick and didn't settle in at all.

Happyhooker wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:49 pmWatson???

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:48 pm

Happyhooker wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:49 pmWatson???

At 29 he's another who's no certainty for the next world cup. Factor in his unfortunate injury history and it makes sense for him to chase a final big contract after the world cup. Especially when so many younger players are gunning for back three positions. Arundell, Hassell-Collins, Freeman, Murley, Malins, Loader and Radwan are obviously the main contenders for any vacated spot and there will surely be others to emerge over the next world cup cycle.

Raggs wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:05 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:48 pm

Happyhooker wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:49 pmWatson???

At 29 he's another who's no certainty for the next world cup. Factor in his unfortunate injury history and it makes sense for him to chase a final big contract after the world cup. Especially when so many younger players are gunning for back three positions. Arundell, Hassell-Collins, Freeman, Murley, Malins, Loader and Radwan are obviously the main contenders for any vacated spot and there will surely be others to emerge over the next world cup cycle.

Yeah, Watson seems like an obvious case of getting in a world cup, then picking up some big paychecks for a few seasons before retiring. How many 33+ year old back 3 are playing for tier 1 sides in world cups? Especially as pointed out, we've got a glut of young good players coming up behind.

“You’re killing the reputation of the Premiership,” said Lam. “I know people say it’s not fair [for some clubs] but we’re keeping everything down at the expense of the quality of the competition. I believe English players shouldn’t be selected from overseas but if the salary cap is £5m then players will leave. You can’t have it both ways.

“The academy boundary system we have is crazy. We’re the only country in the world that has it. If you look at the top 100 schools in the country, I think Harlequins have got 22, London Irish have 16 and Saracens have 14. We have two and Exeter has one. At the moment, it’s a massively uneven playing field.

“You can’t survive on a £5m cap and have the boundary system you have. If you want to keep it at £5m you’ve got to open up those boundaries. The second idea is that everyone picks five players from within their boundaries and then there’s a draft. Then it’s pretty much guaranteed the top 100 18-year-olds will go into Premiership teams every year. Some guys are missing out on genuine opportunities because they’re not in the right area. It’s a late development sport. You can’t actually tell if a 17-year-old is actually going to make it. It’s not like football.”