The Official English Rugby Thread

[Oxbow]

Yep, terrific potential
Thought Mitchell was class as well. Not sure why Collins hasn’t had his contract renewed, great club man
Codling has a huge job to do at Falcons

Really sad to see Collins go, he never has a bad game and there's no substitute for raw pace. Seems to have been undervalued at Saints where he's often had to play second fiddle to bigger names who weren't performing as well as he was.

According to The Rugby Paper Collins is off to London Irish. Evidently he was offered a contract renewal at Saints but has chosen to move on.

Think at his age he just wants more game time. He should fit in well at Irish with their style. I hope he goes well there (apart from against Saints).

[Margin__Walker]

Not sure he would get more game time at Irish really. He's got 16 prem and 3 prem cup appearances for Saints this season. That's pretty tidy.

Would be a decent signing though and work as a slightly cheaper OHC replacement to free up salary cap for elsewhere in the squad. Assuming LI do actually exist next season.

[ASMO]

Saracens being out thought, out worked, out skilled by Irish, this could be a cricket score, Saracens not even second best out there.

[Kawazaki]

Saracens being out thought, out worked, out skilled by Irish, this could be a cricket score, Saracens not even second best out there.

I suspect this post will age like milk in August.

[SaintK]

Saracens being out thought, out worked, out skilled by Irish, this could be a cricket score, Saracens not even second best out there.

I suspect this post will age like milk in August.

All Sarries the last 10 minutes

[SaintK]

How many yellows for high tackles by Simmonds is that this season

[Kawazaki]

20-10

[Kawazaki]

Try bonus

35-16

Milk very whiffy.

[SaintK]

Sarries away for Saints then
Didn’t expect a top 4 finish from Saints to be honest

[Kawazaki]

That could be a training run for Sarries if Saints turn up with their Happy Shopper defence system.

[Paddington Bear]

Saracens being out thought, out worked, out skilled by Irish, this could be a cricket score, Saracens not even second best out there.

[JM2K6]

ASMO prematurely writing off a team/player in extreme terms and having it blow up in his face? Surely not.

[ASMO]

ASMO prematurely writing off a team/player in extreme terms and having it blow up in his face? Surely not.

Was i wrong at the time of writing? 10-0 down at home, 70% possesion against them and about the same territory stats too and unable to do anything with the little ball they did have. You might also note i used the word "could" in my statement, but dont let the facts get in the way of a good flame

[JM2K6]

ASMO prematurely writing off a team/player in extreme terms and having it blow up in his face? Surely not.

Was i wrong at the time of writing? 10-0 down at home, 70% possesion against them and about the same territory stats too and unable to do anything with the little ball they did have. You might also note i used the word "could" in my statement, but dont let the facts get in the way of a good flame

That's the point, you always do this and it backfires so often.

Have you seen how often Saracens concede early scores and look like they're going to be blown away?

[ASMO]

ASMO prematurely writing off a team/player in extreme terms and having it blow up in his face? Surely not.

Was i wrong at the time of writing? 10-0 down at home, 70% possesion against them and about the same territory stats too and unable to do anything with the little ball they did have. You might also note i used the word "could" in my statement, but dont let the facts get in the way of a good flame

That's the point, you always do this and it backfires so often.

Have you seen how often Saracens concede early scores and look like they're going to be blown away?

Ahhh ok, i will then refrain from commenting on what i see happening at the time, wait for the result and then say something. In the same vein, i will wait until the horse race finishes before i place a bet.....gotya

[Slick]

My nephew had a mini tournament at Sarries yesterday. They got a tour of the stadium before, played on the main pitch then tickets for the game and a chance to meet some of the players. He is now badgering my sister to take him more often.

I'm sure some of the other clubs do similar but thought this was excellent.

[Margin__Walker]

Prem Cup for next season confirmed as having Championship clubs included. Great to see and seems like such a no brainer to both give Championship clubs more exposure and increase interest in the competition. No idea why it took so long.

Well played Sarries yesterday. Not seen the game, but looks like we ran out of steam a bit and didn't really back up our good form after a month off. Would have been a tough ask anyway though. Hopefully put in a better shift against Exeter to finish the season on a high.

[SaintK]

My nephew had a mini tournament at Sarries yesterday. They got a tour of the stadium before, played on the main pitch then tickets for the game and a chance to meet some of the players. He is now badgering my sister to take him more often.

I'm sure some of the other clubs do similar but thought this was excellent.

Sarries have an excellent community outreach team covering their catchment area.
Our U13 and U11 girls teams attended one of the women's matches earlier in the season and were incredibly well looked after.

[Ovals]

My nephew had a mini tournament at Sarries yesterday. They got a tour of the stadium before, played on the main pitch then tickets for the game and a chance to meet some of the players. He is now badgering my sister to take him more often.

I'm sure some of the other clubs do similar but thought this was excellent.

Sarries have an excellent community outreach team covering their catchment area.
Our U13 and U11 girls teams attended one of the women's matches earlier in the season and were incredibly well looked after.

My Grandson got to train at the Stoop and meet the players before the Big Game at Twickers. He loved it. Some of the Quins players also came to our local club to work with the kids - my Grandaughters were totally smitten with Marcus !!

[Paddington Bear]

Manu re-signs for Sale, 1 more year

[JM2K6]

Was i wrong at the time of writing? 10-0 down at home, 70% possesion against them and about the same territory stats too and unable to do anything with the little ball they did have. You might also note i used the word "could" in my statement, but dont let the facts get in the way of a good flame

That's the point, you always do this and it backfires so often.

Have you seen how often Saracens concede early scores and look like they're going to be blown away?

Ahhh ok, i will then refrain from commenting on what i see happening at the time, wait for the result and then say something. In the same vein, i will wait until the horse race finishes before i place a bet.....gotya

You could just not make these extreme predictions so quickly - how often do you slag off players only for them to end up MOTM? :-)

[inactionman]

Where's the fun in that?

[SaintK]

Manu re-signs for Sale, 1 more year

Perhaps there wasn't a long list of French clubs lining up to sign him after all?

[Torquemada 1420]

Manu re-signs for Sale, 1 more year

So that's 5 more appearances then

[JM2K6]

Where's the fun in that?

Ah good point. It's also fun for everyone else when it happens...

[Oxbow]

Manu re-signs for Sale, 1 more year

So that's 5 more appearances then

Steady on, he's only signed for one more year.

[Torquemada 1420]

Manu re-signs for Sale, 1 more year

Perhaps there wasn't a long list of French clubs lining up to sign him after all?

There has been a massive change in attitude in Fra to signing sick notes, hence why LC-D was under so much scrutiny. The only place he was likely to get any interest was from a Pro2 club looking at making the leap.

[JM2K6]

14 appearances for Exeter since the beginning of last season. 10 for England! Yeah, he's a risk alright.

[Paddington Bear]

The whole thing is getting silly. Agents feeding stories to the press who cover them breathlessly, Willis demanding 'something must be done' because he's getting concerned he might not be able to pick up the two pay cheques he assumed he would etc. Few are getting offers and fewer of those are major losses. No one seems to be seriously considering the absolute shitfight it will start between the RFU and the Premiership clubs. If you want to go, deal with the consequences.

[inactionman]

The whole thing is getting silly. Agents feeding stories to the press who cover them breathlessly, Willis demanding 'something must be done' because he's getting concerned he might not be able to pick up the two pay cheques he assumed he would etc. Few are getting offers and fewer of those are major losses. No one seems to be seriously considering the absolute shitfight it will start between the RFU and the Premiership clubs. If you want to go, deal with the consequences.

I have some sympathy with Willis as it wasn't entirely in his control.

But, yep, in many cases players (well, everyone involved) need to come to terms with the realities of the situation.

[sockwithaticket]

The whole thing is getting silly. Agents feeding stories to the press who cover them breathlessly, Willis demanding 'something must be done' because he's getting concerned he might not be able to pick up the two pay cheques he assumed he would etc. Few are getting offers and fewer of those are major losses. No one seems to be seriously considering the absolute shitfight it will start between the RFU and the Premiership clubs. If you want to go, deal with the consequences.

I have some sympathy with Willis as it wasn't entirely in his control.

But, yep, in many cases players (well, everyone involved) need to come to terms with the realities of the situation.

Initial move, sure. But the decision to sign on for two more seasons and the option of another is entirely his. Plenty of Wasps have secured their futures in the Premiership, even some who don't necessarily have international prospects with England (Bassett, West).

I'm absolutely happy for him to stay with Toulouse and grab the cash if that's what he wants, his injuries and the situation with Wasps mean he'll be more acutely aware than many of how short this career can be, but that is a choice and it comes with a consequence of not playing for England. He knew this when he made it and now seems to want to have his cake and it too.

[inactionman]

The whole thing is getting silly. Agents feeding stories to the press who cover them breathlessly, Willis demanding 'something must be done' because he's getting concerned he might not be able to pick up the two pay cheques he assumed he would etc. Few are getting offers and fewer of those are major losses. No one seems to be seriously considering the absolute shitfight it will start between the RFU and the Premiership clubs. If you want to go, deal with the consequences.

I have some sympathy with Willis as it wasn't entirely in his control.

But, yep, in many cases players (well, everyone involved) need to come to terms with the realities of the situation.

Initial move, sure. But the decision to sign on for two more seasons and the option of another is entirely his. Plenty of Wasps have secured their futures in the Premiership, even some who don't necessarily have international prospects with England (Bassett, West).

I'm absolutely happy for him to stay with Toulouse and grab the cash if that's what he wants, his injuries and the situation with Wasps mean he'll be more acutely aware than many of how short this career can be, but that is a choice and it comes with a consequence of not playing for England. He knew this when he made it and now seems to want to have his cake and it too.

I meant that the decision to leave Wasps wasn't his - he didn't go seeking new pastures or chasing a payday, and there may not be a suitable spot for him in the Premiership, especially with belts being tightened and squad depths reducing. He didn't create the situation.

Someone upping and going simply as there's a better payday would elicit much less of my sympathy, or someone upping and going for the experience of playing and living overseas - it's a deliberate, specific choice and they know what such a choice entails. Willis obviously understood going to France is not ideal from an England perspective, but his choice (was it really a choice at all?) was more a case of any port in a storm.

[Paddington Bear]

The whole thing is getting silly. Agents feeding stories to the press who cover them breathlessly, Willis demanding 'something must be done' because he's getting concerned he might not be able to pick up the two pay cheques he assumed he would etc. Few are getting offers and fewer of those are major losses. No one seems to be seriously considering the absolute shitfight it will start between the RFU and the Premiership clubs. If you want to go, deal with the consequences.

I have some sympathy with Willis as it wasn't entirely in his control.

But, yep, in many cases players (well, everyone involved) need to come to terms with the realities of the situation.

Yep. Willis gets a free pass completely for this season and probably next, moving countries is a hell of a thing. But he signed a contract for 3 years? knowing the consequences.

[sockwithaticket]

I have some sympathy with Willis as it wasn't entirely in his control.

But, yep, in many cases players (well, everyone involved) need to come to terms with the realities of the situation.

Initial move, sure. But the decision to sign on for two more seasons and the option of another is entirely his. Plenty of Wasps have secured their futures in the Premiership, even some who don't necessarily have international prospects with England (Bassett, West).

I'm absolutely happy for him to stay with Toulouse and grab the cash if that's what he wants, his injuries and the situation with Wasps mean he'll be more acutely aware than many of how short this career can be, but that is a choice and it comes with a consequence of not playing for England. He knew this when he made it and now seems to want to have his cake and it too.

I meant that the decision to leave Wasps wasn't his - he didn't go seeking new pastures or chasing a payday, and there may not be a suitable spot for him in the Premiership, especially with belts being tightened and squad depths reducing. He didn't create the situation.

Someone upping and going simply as there's a better payday would elicit much less of my sympathy, or someone upping and going for the experience of playing and living overseas - it's a deliberate, specific choice and they know what such a choice entails. Willis obviously understood going to France is not ideal from an England perspective, but his choice (was it really a choice at all?) was more a case of any port in a storm.

Right, but his comments about selection policy have come after he's signed an extension he didn't have to that keeps him in France. His brother and Launchbury went abroad initially, but arranged to be playing for English clubs from next season. I find it hard to believe some team couldn't find room for him if he were willing to play for less money than he'll be getting from Toulouse.

[Kawazaki]

Jack Willis won't play for England again while he's in France. His brother looks like he wants to play for England more to be honest. He is one of the best English backrowers around at the moment but he's not a better 7 than Earl or a better 6 than Pearson and Billy, Mercer and his brother are better 8s.

[inactionman]

Initial move, sure. But the decision to sign on for two more seasons and the option of another is entirely his. Plenty of Wasps have secured their futures in the Premiership, even some who don't necessarily have international prospects with England (Bassett, West).

I'm absolutely happy for him to stay with Toulouse and grab the cash if that's what he wants, his injuries and the situation with Wasps mean he'll be more acutely aware than many of how short this career can be, but that is a choice and it comes with a consequence of not playing for England. He knew this when he made it and now seems to want to have his cake and it too.

I meant that the decision to leave Wasps wasn't his - he didn't go seeking new pastures or chasing a payday, and there may not be a suitable spot for him in the Premiership, especially with belts being tightened and squad depths reducing. He didn't create the situation.

Someone upping and going simply as there's a better payday would elicit much less of my sympathy, or someone upping and going for the experience of playing and living overseas - it's a deliberate, specific choice and they know what such a choice entails. Willis obviously understood going to France is not ideal from an England perspective, but his choice (was it really a choice at all?) was more a case of any port in a storm.

Right, but his comments about selection policy have come after he's signed an extension he didn't have to that keeps him in France. His brother and Launchbury went abroad initially, but arranged to be playing for English clubs from next season. I find it hard to believe some team couldn't find room for him if he were willing to play for less money than he'll be getting from Toulouse.

That's perhaps the key part - I've no real clue what options were open, noting that many clubs would have backrows on multi-year contracts, so maybe there just wasn't a viable place for him at the point of contact renewal. I'm sure many teams would have loved to have him, but can't shuffle the contracts to make a viable offer. Or maybe they did and he opted for France, I simply don't know.

It's still the case that players who move clubs in a more planned way would wait for openings (or at least only look to move once there was a clear opening), Willis didn't/doesn't have that luxury - he was forced to move, he has to find a club now, and if the option isn't there in England he'd have to take the one in France. He didn't engineer this.

It really couldn't have happened in a worse way - your club goes bust at the same time another club goes bust (so, for example, a certain Ted Hill - and perhaps Alfie Barbeary - is on the market, filling a potential slot for high-quality backrows) and just as salary cap restrictions in your home market start to bite.

[Ovals]

I meant that the decision to leave Wasps wasn't his - he didn't go seeking new pastures or chasing a payday, and there may not be a suitable spot for him in the Premiership, especially with belts being tightened and squad depths reducing. He didn't create the situation.

Someone upping and going simply as there's a better payday would elicit much less of my sympathy, or someone upping and going for the experience of playing and living overseas - it's a deliberate, specific choice and they know what such a choice entails. Willis obviously understood going to France is not ideal from an England perspective, but his choice (was it really a choice at all?) was more a case of any port in a storm.

Right, but his comments about selection policy have come after he's signed an extension he didn't have to that keeps him in France. His brother and Launchbury went abroad initially, but arranged to be playing for English clubs from next season. I find it hard to believe some team couldn't find room for him if he were willing to play for less money than he'll be getting from Toulouse.

That's perhaps the key part - I've no real clue what options were open, noting that many clubs would have backrows on multi-year contracts, so maybe there just wasn't a viable place for him at the point of contact renewal. I'm sure many teams would have loved to have him, but can't shuffle the contracts to make a viable offer. Or maybe they did and he opted for France, I simply don't know.

It's still the case that players who move clubs in a more planned way would wait for openings (or at least only look to move once there was a clear opening), Willis didn't/doesn't have that luxury - he was forced to move, he has to find a club now, and if the option isn't there in England he'd have to take the one in France. He didn't engineer this.

It really couldn't have happened in a worse way - your club goes bust at the same time another club goes bust (so, for example, a certain Ted Hill - and perhaps Alfie Barbeary - is on the market, filling a potential slot for high-quality backrows) and just as salary cap restrictions in your home market start to bite.

Willis was heavily rumpoured to be top of Bristol Bears wish list and the Rugby Paper, back in March, reported that they'd made him an 'acceptable' offer - evidently the French upped the ante. So I'm not so sure that Willis gets a free pass - he's weighed up the money, playing for a top side that will challenge for titles and living in France - against the Premiership and possible England selection and still having to up sticks and move.

[Margin__Walker]

Sounds like that night LCD had out in France was exceedingly heavy.

[SaintK]

Sounds like that night LCD had out in France was exceedingly heavy.

Heavy indeed.
Though according to Baxter his move to Montpellier is still on!
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/luke-c ... -baxter/

[SaintK]

Not good!!

Crowd behaviour at student rugby games is under fresh scrutiny after worrying scenes at last week’s British Universities and Colleges Sport student finals day at Saracens’ StoneX Stadium.
In addition to scuffles breaking out between rival supporters, the Metropolitan police have confirmed that a 19-year-old man reported being assaulted when a dispute spilled over into the car park later in the evening.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... y-fracas