Enzedder wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:21 am
He has a point though - perhaps "indiscretions" should cost championship points rather than short time penalties (which can sometimes mean absolutely nothing). Lewis cost Jos a chance at 10 points with no penalty to himself.
Based on that, I think Jos may have earned some penalties this year too though
Sure, whatever - not fussed about what Max thinks of the penalty, even if his complaints are predictable and a little hypocritical. Whining about Hamilton celebrating the win and accusing him of lacking respect and being unsportsmanlike is just pure dickery though, the kid clearly has a giant ego and a sensitive one at that. That level of arrogance at that age is not a great sign - I can see him losing it on the track in future.
Enzedder wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:21 am
He has a point though - perhaps "indiscretions" should cost championship points rather than short time penalties (which can sometimes mean absolutely nothing). Lewis cost Jos a chance at 10 points with no penalty to himself.
Based on that, I think Jos may have earned some penalties this year too though
Sure, whatever - not fussed about what Max thinks of the penalty, even if his complaints are predictable and a little hypocritical. Whining about Hamilton celebrating the win and accusing him of lacking respect and being unsportsmanlike is just pure dickery though, the kid clearly has a giant ego and a sensitive one at that. That level of arrogance at that age is not a great sign - I can see him losing it on the track in future.
Agreed. Compare Max's attitude with those of Le Clerc, Russell and Lando. Similar talents, yet miles apart in levels of entitlement and whinge.
Enzedder wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:21 am
He has a point though - perhaps "indiscretions" should cost championship points rather than short time penalties (which can sometimes mean absolutely nothing). Lewis cost Jos a chance at 10 points with no penalty to himself.
Based on that, I think Jos may have earned some penalties this year too though
Sure, whatever - not fussed about what Max thinks of the penalty, even if his complaints are predictable and a little hypocritical. Whining about Hamilton celebrating the win and accusing him of lacking respect and being unsportsmanlike is just pure dickery though, the kid clearly has a giant ego and a sensitive one at that. That level of arrogance at that age is not a great sign - I can see him losing it on the track in future.
You don't have to like the lad at all, but you should try opening the other eye. As a Hamilton supporter you can't be having too many issues with other drivers having an ego/being arrogant.
As I said, I think those comments by Max were in the heat of emotion and unhelpful.
But if you have an issue with whining, then I assume you don't listen to Hamilton's radio in the races where he can't get a victory.
Enzedder wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:21 am
He has a point though - perhaps "indiscretions" should cost championship points rather than short time penalties (which can sometimes mean absolutely nothing). Lewis cost Jos a chance at 10 points with no penalty to himself.
Based on that, I think Jos may have earned some penalties this year too though
Sure, whatever - not fussed about what Max thinks of the penalty, even if his complaints are predictable and a little hypocritical. Whining about Hamilton celebrating the win and accusing him of lacking respect and being unsportsmanlike is just pure dickery though, the kid clearly has a giant ego and a sensitive one at that. That level of arrogance at that age is not a great sign - I can see him losing it on the track in future.
You don't have to like the lad at all, but you should try opening the other eye. As a Hamilton supporter you can't be having too many issues with other drivers having an ego/being arrogant.
As I said, I think those comments by Max were in the heat of emotion and unhelpful.
But if you have an issue with whining, then I assume you don't listen to Hamilton's radio in the races where he can't get a victory.
Would it help you not completely dismiss my point if I reminded you that I'm half Dutch and Max is my second favourite of the current bunch of racers? I really want the kid to succeed. I couldn't give a shit about Hamilton whining on comms during a race, just like I couldn't give a shit about Max doing the same, or if anyone complained about the penalty being too light. It's the bullshit about respect and sportsmanship - the world does not revolve around Max Verstappen - and it says nothing good about him or his headspace.
All F1 drivers have an ego to some extent, but Max is acting like he's Ayrton Senna and someone's just pissed on a statue of him, rather than Hamilton celebrating his first win for ages because apparently drivers shouldn't celebrate wins if they were in a collision?!
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:20 pm
by Thor Sedan
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:36 am
Would it help you not completely dismiss my point if I reminded you that I'm half Dutch and Max is my second favourite of the current bunch of racers? I really want the kid to succeed. I couldn't give a shit about Hamilton whining on comms during a race, just like I couldn't give a shit about Max doing the same, or if anyone complained about the penalty being too light. It's the bullshit about respect and sportsmanship - the world does not revolve around Max Verstappen - and it says nothing good about him or his headspace.
All F1 drivers have an ego to some extent, but Max is acting like he's Ayrton Senna and someone's just pissed on a statue of him, rather than Hamilton celebrating his first win for ages because apparently drivers shouldn't celebrate wins if they were in a collision?!
All of this.
The way Red Bull and Max are commenting and behaving about this incident is getting close to claiming that Hamilton did it on purpose.
I have looked at quite a bit of coverage and analysis of the incident. It is clear that Hamilton wasn't without blame. But there is also footage of Max turning in - away and then back in even though he knew Hamilton was there. Absolutely Hamilton should have got the penalty - but Max doesn't get to come away as a bright, shining example of perfect track racing.
I would say that the straight up whining from Red Bull and vilification of Hamilton has exacerbated the online racial attacks on him.
Hamilton isn't perfect - but Red Bull have gone down a huge amount in my estimation.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:22 pm
by Sandstorm
Vettel was equally as entitled and arrogant when #1 at Red Bull. Horner enjoys having young drivers with egos.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:24 pm
by salanya
JM: you're talking about the two biggest egos on the track, also the ones contending for the championship. The entitlement comes out when they don't win, as both have demonstrated.
And in fairness, most F1 drivers show themselves to be dicks when things don't go their way (I'm a big fan of George Russell, a lovely and hugely talented lad, but he totally lost it at Bottas when they crashed - just to give you an example).
As I said, I don't think Max's comments were helpful at all, but I would cut the guy some slack: they were made within hours of a 50g force crash at high speed into a tyre wall, and although he walked away he still had to have a CT. After which he would have returned to a frustrated team who saw their lead cut by a crash caused by another driver. And the press are loving it as the Hamilton-Verstappen spats sell papers/clicks.
PS: I'm the only Dutch in this goat/bear pit
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:26 pm
by Sandstorm
salanya wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:21 am
But if you have an issue with whining, then I assume you don't listen to Hamilton's radio in the races where he can't get a victory.
All racing drivers whinge on the radio all day long. That's what they do.
We only hear Lewis constantly moaning because he's the World Champ, is likely challenging for the win and it's interesting. No-one gives a fuck what Stroll or Giovenazzi moan about while they're driving on Sunday.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:27 pm
by JM2K6
salanya wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:24 pm
JM: you're talking about the two biggest egos on the track, also the ones contending for the championship. The entitlement comes out when they don't win, as both have demonstrated.
And in fairness, most F1 drivers show themselves to be dicks when things don't go their way (I'm a big fan of George Russell, a lovely and hugely talented lad, but he totally lost it at Bottas when they crashed - just to give you an example).
As I said, I don't think Max's comments were helpful at all, but I would cut the guy some slack: they were made within hours of a 50g force crash at high speed into a tyre wall, and although he walked away he still had to have a CT. After which he would have returned to a frustrated team who saw their lead cut by a crash caused by another driver. And the press are loving it as the Hamilton-Verstappen spats sell papers/clicks.
PS: I'm the only Dutch in this goat/bear pit
Have any of them done anything as ludicrous as Max demanding that Hamilton not celebrate his win?
salanya wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:21 am
But if you have an issue with whining, then I assume you don't listen to Hamilton's radio in the races where he can't get a victory.
All racing drivers whinge on the radio all day long. That's what they do.
We only hear Lewis constantly moaning because he's the World Champ, is likely challenging for the win and it's interesting. No-one gives a fuck what Stroll or Giovenazzi moan about while they're driving on Sunday.
I love Kimi on the radio :)
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:40 pm
by Kawazaki
Horner saying that Hamilton making contact with Verstappen was premeditated and deliberate.
There's grounds there for bringing the sport into disrepute.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:09 pm
by Thor Sedan
Imagine a drinking game watching this race where you had to consume every time Horner said 'Stick a wheel in there'.
salanya wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:21 am
But if you have an issue with whining, then I assume you don't listen to Hamilton's radio in the races where he can't get a victory.
All racing drivers whinge on the radio all day long. That's what they do.
We only hear Lewis constantly moaning because he's the World Champ, is likely challenging for the win and it's interesting. No-one gives a fuck what Stroll or Giovenazzi moan about while they're driving on Sunday.
I love Kimi on the radio :)
speaking of Kimi, I hope they remembered to connect his drink, was hot out there yesterday
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:07 pm
by handyman
Taking into account opinions from former drivers and people in F1, Hamilton was more at fault here. People are throwing in social media posts and other stuff, but the heart of the matter is that Hamilton pushed Verstappen of the track. Let's hope the same does not happen when Verstappen is in Hamilton's position.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:16 pm
by Sandstorm
handyman wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:07 pm
Taking into account opinions from former drivers and people in F1, Hamilton was more at fault here. People are throwing in social media posts and other stuff, but the heart of the matter is that Hamilton pushed Verstappen of the track. Let's hope the same does not happen when Verstappen is in Hamilton's position.
I don't believe more than 3 people out there don't think Lewis was at fault. He was behind and knocked Max into a spin. A huge number also think his 10sec penalty was light, but is within the rules.
Only 1 of the 4 stewards making the decision on Sunday was a Brit (Aussie, Italian, Frenchie ( I think))
However Red Bull's salty tears are delicious and I am telling every Max fan I meet today that Lewis did nothing wrong.
handyman wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:07 pm
Taking into account opinions from former drivers and people in F1, Hamilton was more at fault here. People are throwing in social media posts and other stuff, but the heart of the matter is that Hamilton pushed Verstappen of the track. Let's hope the same does not happen when Verstappen is in Hamilton's position.
I don't believe more than 3 people out there don't think Lewis was at fault. He was behind and knocked Max into a spin. A huge number also think his 10sec penalty was light, but is within the rules.
Only 1 of the 4 stewards making the decision on Sunday was a Brit (Aussie, Italian, Frenchie ( I think))
However Red Bull's salty tears are delicious and I am telling every Max fan I meet today that Lewis did nothing wrong.
I don't care about the nationality of the stewards, they are not there to look out for their countrymen. Neither are the commentators.
Not sure you're the kind of fan I would want to watch a race with, but yeah, each to their own. It is what it is, it ruined what could have been a great race.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:40 pm
by JM2K6
Really? The likelihood is Max would've won at a canter given the difference in car performance at the moment. As it is, there was drama at the start, drama at the end, and it's breathed a bit of life into a championship that was looking very one-sided.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:45 pm
by Sandstorm
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:40 pm
Really? The likelihood is Max would've won at a canter given the difference in car performance at the moment. As it is, there was drama at the start, drama at the end, and it's breathed a bit of life into a championship that was looking very one-sided.
+1
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:48 pm
by Thor Sedan
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:40 pm
Really? The likelihood is Max would've won at a canter given the difference in car performance at the moment. As it is, there was drama at the start, drama at the end, and it's breathed a bit of life into a championship that was looking very one-sided.
Yep.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:07 pm
by Kawazaki
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:40 pm
Really? The likelihood is Max would've won at a canter given the difference in car performance at the moment. As it is, there was drama at the start, drama at the end, and it's breathed a bit of life into a championship that was looking very one-sided.
Plus everyone will now watch the next race to see the fallout. I suspect we will see Verstappen blocking, weaving and squeezing. Be hilarious if he takes himself off.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:22 pm
by handyman
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:40 pm
Really? The likelihood is Max would've won at a canter given the difference in car performance at the moment. As it is, there was drama at the start, drama at the end, and it's breathed a bit of life into a championship that was looking very one-sided.
handyman wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:07 pm
Taking into account opinions from former drivers and people in F1, Hamilton was more at fault here. People are throwing in social media posts and other stuff, but the heart of the matter is that Hamilton pushed Verstappen of the track. Let's hope the same does not happen when Verstappen is in Hamilton's position.
I don't believe more than 3 people out there don't think Lewis was at fault. He was behind and knocked Max into a spin. A huge number also think his 10sec penalty was light, but is within the rules.
Only 1 of the 4 stewards making the decision on Sunday was a Brit (Aussie, Italian, Frenchie ( I think))
However Red Bull's salty tears are delicious and I am telling every Max fan I meet today that Lewis did nothing wrong.
I'm not sure it's that straightforward - Leclerc, Bottas, Alonso all just thought it was a racing incident ("It was an unfortunate moment of the race, but nothing intentional or nothing that any of the two drivers did wrong in my opinion"). Certainly agree the majority view is that Hamilton was at fault, but crucially it's a long way from that to "Hamilton deliberately took him out" and there's plenty of reasonable doubt about whether it was even his fault. I'm not on good ground when it comes to the technical stuff like this so I have no dog in the fight and am happy to go with the stewards and the majority view, but it doesn't seem particularly clear cut.
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:40 pm
Really? The likelihood is Max would've won at a canter given the difference in car performance at the moment. As it is, there was drama at the start, drama at the end, and it's breathed a bit of life into a championship that was looking very one-sided.
Artificial drama.
It's one of the most artificial sports in existence!
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:40 pm
Really? The likelihood is Max would've won at a canter given the difference in car performance at the moment. As it is, there was drama at the start, drama at the end, and it's breathed a bit of life into a championship that was looking very one-sided.
Artificial drama.
It's one of the most artificial sports in existence!
handyman wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:07 pm
Taking into account opinions from former drivers and people in F1, Hamilton was more at fault here. People are throwing in social media posts and other stuff, but the heart of the matter is that Hamilton pushed Verstappen of the track. Let's hope the same does not happen when Verstappen is in Hamilton's position.
I don't believe more than 3 people out there don't think Lewis was at fault. He was behind and knocked Max into a spin. A huge number also think his 10sec penalty was light, but is within the rules.
Only 1 of the 4 stewards making the decision on Sunday was a Brit (Aussie, Italian, Frenchie ( I think))
However Red Bull's salty tears are delicious and I am telling every Max fan I meet today that Lewis did nothing wrong.
I'm not sure it's that straightforward - Leclerc, Bottas, Alonso all just thought it was a racing incident ("It was an unfortunate moment of the race, but nothing intentional or nothing that any of the two drivers did wrong in my opinion"). Certainly agree the majority view is that Hamilton was at fault, but crucially it's a long way from that to "Hamilton deliberately took him out" and there's plenty of reasonable doubt about whether it was even his fault. I'm not on good ground when it comes to the technical stuff like this so I have no dog in the fight and am happy to go with the stewards and the majority view, but it doesn't seem particularly clear cut.
Right or wrong, but must be consistent from now on.
I don't believe more than 3 people out there don't think Lewis was at fault. He was behind and knocked Max into a spin. A huge number also think his 10sec penalty was light, but is within the rules.
Only 1 of the 4 stewards making the decision on Sunday was a Brit (Aussie, Italian, Frenchie ( I think))
However Red Bull's salty tears are delicious and I am telling every Max fan I meet today that Lewis did nothing wrong.
I'm not sure it's that straightforward - Leclerc, Bottas, Alonso all just thought it was a racing incident ("It was an unfortunate moment of the race, but nothing intentional or nothing that any of the two drivers did wrong in my opinion"). Certainly agree the majority view is that Hamilton was at fault, but crucially it's a long way from that to "Hamilton deliberately took him out" and there's plenty of reasonable doubt about whether it was even his fault. I'm not on good ground when it comes to the technical stuff like this so I have no dog in the fight and am happy to go with the stewards and the majority view, but it doesn't seem particularly clear cut.
Right or wrong, but must be consistent from now on.
The stewards were consistent, that's why he got a penalty.
Enzedder wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:21 am
He has a point though - perhaps "indiscretions" should cost championship points rather than short time penalties (which can sometimes mean absolutely nothing). Lewis cost Jos a chance at 10 points with no penalty to himself.
Based on that, I think Jos may have earned some penalties this year too though
Sure, whatever - not fussed about what Max thinks of the penalty, even if his complaints are predictable and a little hypocritical. Whining about Hamilton celebrating the win and accusing him of lacking respect and being unsportsmanlike is just pure dickery though, the kid clearly has a giant ego and a sensitive one at that. That level of arrogance at that age is not a great sign - I can see him losing it on the track in future.
Agreed. Compare Max's attitude with those of Le Clerc, Russell and Lando. Similar talents, yet miles apart in levels of entitlement and whinge.
That wasn't my point - talking about the penalties for driving offences, not whether the person affected was an ass.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:50 am
by Kawazaki
Mad Marko now says Red Bull has hired a law firm to go through the FIA rulebook and will consider legal action if Hamilton doesn't get black flags and race bans in the future.
Kawazaki wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:50 am
Mad Marko now says Red Bull has hired a law firm to go through the FIA rulebook and will consider legal action if Hamilton doesn't get black flags and race bans in the future.
As they say in Italian, he's missed another good opportunity to keep his mouth shut
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:06 am
by Big D
Kawazaki wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:50 am
Mad Marko now says Red Bull has hired a law firm to go through the FIA rulebook and will consider legal action if Hamilton doesn't get black flags and race bans in the future.
He is as well saying "only Max gets to be aggressive". It has reached embarrassing levels of whinging now. Especially when Max has totted up more penalty points in his career for causing collisions than many.
James Allison has used the FIA guidance to suggest Hamilton did nothing wrong too over the last couple of days..
They both need to STFU and get on with it.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:37 am
by sturginho
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:42 pm
by Enzedder
Red Bull have redesigned their Anti-Hamilton model
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:57 am
by Kawazaki
I see that Red Bull have instigated a formal protest against Mercedes and Hamilton to get his 10-second penalty increased.
Helmut Marko was asked what he would like;
“Appropriate is a penalty that would have prevented a victory. Drive-through or a suspension for the next race. Something along these lines.”
All we need now is for Marko and Horner to threaten to leave F1 again.
What a ridiculous and pathetic shower the Red Bull team are. I bet Mercedes and Toto are pissing themselves laughing.
Review dismissed with no case to answer in less than 4 hours. Turns out the 'new' evidence that Marko said was pivotal to Hamilton getting a retrospective penalty/ban was Albon driving a Red Bull during a tyre test at Silverstone on the same racing line into Copse that Hamilton took when he collided with Verstappen.
This is next level whataboutery bullshit. Embarrassing. They should be fined for wasting the FIA's time.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:42 pm
by Slick
It’s going to become seriously embarrassing for them when Max inevitably takes someone off in the next couple of races
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:51 pm
by mos_eisely_
Kawazaki wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:27 pm
Review dismissed with no case to answer in less than 4 hours. Turns out the 'new' evidence that Marko said was pivotal to Hamilton getting a retrospective penalty/ban was Albon driving a Red Bull during a tyre test at Silverstone on the same racing line into Copse that Hamilton took when he collided with Verstappen.
This is next level whataboutery bullshit. Embarrassing. They should be fined for wasting the FIA's time.
We've conclusively proved with a different car, with different tyres, fuel load and grip, and a completely different driver that Hamilton missed the breaking point by 23m and wouldn't have made the corner
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:32 pm
by ScarfaceClaw
It’s like red bull have hired Rassie as their PR/media consultant.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:30 pm
by Kawazaki
Horner trending on Twitter all day...
He was asked again about the racist abuse Hamilton got after the Silverstone collision and he replied that Verstappen also got some online abuse.
Red Bull must be delighted with Horner and Marko. Real brand ambassadors.
Re: The Official F1 Thread
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:37 pm
by Sandstorm
Kawazaki wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:30 pm
Horner trending on Twitter all day...
He was asked again about the racist abuse Hamilton got after the Silverstone collision and he replied that Verstappen also got some online abuse.
Red Bull must be delighted with Horner and Marko. Real brand ambassadors.
Short, super-rich men are also arseholes non-shock.
