NPR

Woddy wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:49 pm JM - I've long been rather underwhelmed by Wood myself (other than his very apparent enthusiastic personality) as he doesn't seem to do much with the ball other than hurl it pretty quickly. For that reason, I've been intrigued as to why they've kept going with him. Thought this argument gives some rationale, and he does appear to have taken more wickets, and more crucial wickets, since he lengthened his run-up, whatever the detailed stats might be.

Archer's just as fragile imo, and I don't think England bowl him into the ground at all.

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:07 pm

Woddy wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:49 pm JM - I've long been rather underwhelmed by Wood myself (other than his very apparent enthusiastic personality) as he doesn't seem to do much with the ball other than hurl it pretty quickly. For that reason, I've been intrigued as to why they've kept going with him. Thought this argument gives some rationale, and he does appear to have taken more wickets, and more crucial wickets, since he lengthened his run-up, whatever the detailed stats might be.

Archer's just as fragile imo, and I don't think England bowl him into the ground at all.

Root made him bowl some ridiculous number of overs and he's a core part of the team in all three formats plus an IPL superstar. They rushed him back the first couple of times his elbow got injured, and iirc the first time the injury happened was right after a couple of matches where he had to bowl an insane amount.

Biffer wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:43 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:21 am

Saint wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:33 pm

Lot of truth to this. I had the TV on in the background yesterday - from memory they weren't even saying it was medium fast bowlers that took the wickets in England, they were outright pure medium bowlers. The reason for that is simple - the majority of first class cricket in England is played in VERY damp conditions (early Spring/late Autumn), where as long as you can hold the seam vaguely upright the ball will swing. If you're fast you're banging it into a damp wicket that won't bounce and you're not getting swing.

This Lords wicket is a touch unusual - we've come off a VERY wet May so everything is a touch on the lush side, and suddenly the sun is out, the wicket is baking off a bit, speeding up, and the bounce is quite rapidly becoming variable. Absolutely Wood should have a better understanding of bowling to the conditions, but he's an unusual English bowler - his figures abroad are massively better than those at home, because on tours the outright pace is one of the few real weapons a pace bowler will have.

Add to that that we've gone in with a 4 bowler pace attack (with a part timer spin) and you can't effectively use a pace bowler as you need him to pick up more overs than he really should. The balance of the side is way out while we're missing so many names, in particular in the batting as it leaves us selecting a side like we did in the early 90s.

Hang on, no one is telling tearaway fast bowlers to become medium pacers. The genuine quicks continue to be genuinely quick. Fast medium bowlers continue to be told to work on their pace. Medium pacers largely get ignored by England regardless of their domestic record, because of their lack of pace.

The point about wood is that pace alone isn't enough at this level. Not that we're trying to turn him into a slower bowler - just that express pace with no control or guile is less useful than slightly slower bowling that is better executed, in certain conditions.

Rinkals doing his thing of trying to turn it into a condemnation of English cricket is funny as per, but there's absolutely no evidence that fast bowlers are being coached out of being fast. It's pure nonsense.

English county cricket has a ton of problems and almost all of them can be aimed at the scheduling, as you point out.

I think the point is more that the climate, plus the ridiculous scheduling in England where no four day cricket is played in July and August when wickets are hard and bouncy, means that it's very difficult for quicks and wrist spinners to prosper and break through in the long form of the game.

It's the scheduling that really gets my goat tbh. last year there were no four day county games scheduled from something like the 3rd July to the 28th August. That's the England Test side dead on it's arse in the next few years.

Rinkals wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:26 pm

Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:26 pm And don't get me started about slow over rates. Fine every bloody player in the team shitloads and they'll find a way to bowl 90 overs in a day.

Christ knows why everybody gets their knickers in a twist over slow over rates.

If you don't have a spinner bowling you are not going to fir in 15 overs per hour.

Nobody, apart from the broadcasters really gives a fuck.

Mind you delaying the start of the overs so that the batsman can change his gloves and spend five minutes scratching out his guard does seem to be taking the piss.

Enzedder wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:54 pm

Rinkals wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:26 pm

Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:26 pm And don't get me started about slow over rates. Fine every bloody player in the team shitloads and they'll find a way to bowl 90 overs in a day.

Christ knows why everybody gets their knickers in a twist over slow over rates.

If you don't have a spinner bowling you are not going to fir in 15 overs per hour.

Nobody, apart from the broadcasters really gives a fuck.

Mind you delaying the start of the overs so that the batsman can change his gloves and spend five minutes scratching out his guard does seem to be taking the piss.

Used to have no problems achieving it and more

Ymx wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:01 am No earlier start today?

SaintK wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:59 am NZ to be batting again before tea

Trent Boult is seen around the boundary, must have just finished training at the Lord's Nursery Ground

Hal Jordan wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:10 am

SaintK wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:59 am NZ to be batting again before tea :roll:

Does anyone enforce the follow on any more?

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:59 am Couple of truly awful decisions by this umpire so far today.

Kiwias wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:45 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:59 am Couple of truly awful decisions by this umpire so far today.

The lbw on Pope was the only really bad one I remember.

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:25 pm

Kiwias wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:45 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:59 am Couple of truly awful decisions by this umpire so far today.

The lbw on Pope was the only really bad one I remember.

You could argue the Pope one with hint of inside edge. What was the other one?

Sandstorm wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:01 pm Dunno why Kiwis didn’t send in a slogger to bat with Conway and try to get a big lead tonight. This is turgid and putting no pressure on England tomorrow.

And 1 guest wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:41 pm What a brilliant session of Test cricket. Don't think you can blame the umpire for either decision

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:39 pm What in the living fuck are those glasses of Roots?

Ymx wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:59 pm England’s bowling improved again after the mishapened ball replacement

Ymx wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:59 pm England’s bowling improved again after the mishapened ball replacement

Enzedder wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:09 pm

Ymx wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:59 pm England’s bowling improved again after the mishapened ball replacement

Not every country tampers with a cricket ball mate. [Atherton was innocent; so was Pringle]

And 1 guest wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:47 pm Latham sticking in well. England bowlers have been a constant threat, so one will be dropped for the next game while the shite batters all get picked again

Enzedder wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:09 pm

Ymx wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:59 pm England’s bowling improved again after the mishapened ball replacement

Not every country tampers with a cricket ball mate. [Atherton was innocent; so was Pringle]