NPR

Ymx wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:07 pm If the above link didn’t work

petej wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 7:03 pm

Ymx wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:07 pm If the above link didn’t work

The working class is such a nebulous thing. It is gotcha gossip and bullshit. Political "journalism" in the UK is very similar to football transfer gossip. The reporter has zero interest in anything of substance. He like many will close down any sort of discussion on wealth, inequality and demographics of the people in this country.

Ymx wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:03 pm Oh dear god this is the useless embarrassment we are facing being stuck with

Guy Smiley wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:30 pm Has 'X' gone back to revealing tweets to subscribers only?

Every tweet in this thread over the last couple of pages has a 'tweet unavailable' message showing for me.

Which is... nice.

Ymx wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:30 pm

petej wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 7:03 pm

Ymx wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:07 pm If the above link didn’t work

The working class is such a nebulous thing. It is gotcha gossip and bullshit. Political "journalism" in the UK is very similar to football transfer gossip. The reporter has zero interest in anything of substance. He like many will close down any sort of discussion on wealth, inequality and demographics of the people in this country.

It’s Starmer who keeps banging on about it. About his working class upbringing - his dad the toolmaker - their campaign for the working people. It’s only fair to ask him …

He is just a total blabbering moron with his response.

It’s fvcking embarrassing

petej wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 7:03 pm

Ymx wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:07 pm If the above link didn’t work

The working class is such a nebulous thing. It is gotcha gossip and bullshit. Political "journalism" in the UK is very similar to football transfer gossip. The reporter has zero interest in anything of substance. He like many will close down any sort of discussion on wealth, inequality and demographics of the people in this country.

petej wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:47 pm

Ymx wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:30 pm

petej wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 7:03 pm

The working class is such a nebulous thing. It is gotcha gossip and bullshit. Political "journalism" in the UK is very similar to football transfer gossip. The reporter has zero interest in anything of substance. He like many will close down any sort of discussion on wealth, inequality and demographics of the people in this country.

It’s Starmer who keeps banging on about it. About his working class upbringing - his dad the toolmaker - their campaign for the working people. It’s only fair to ask him …

He is just a total blabbering moron with his response.

It’s fvcking embarrassing

I doubt starmer really wants to discuss this. It keeps coming up because bullshit, distraction and nonsense is what the billionaire masters wants us/the public to listen to and has reduced our politics to.

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:50 pm

petej wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:47 pm

Ymx wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:30 pm

It’s Starmer who keeps banging on about it. About his working class upbringing - his dad the toolmaker - their campaign for the working people. It’s only fair to ask him …

He is just a total blabbering moron with his response.

It’s fvcking embarrassing

I doubt starmer really wants to discuss this. It keeps coming up because bullshit, distraction and nonsense is what the billionaire masters wants us/the public to listen to and has reduced our politics to.

I haven't seen it too much recently, but there was a point where the Tories were trying to lean in hard on his title and worth, safe in the knowledge that their pet press wouldn't trouble themselves to point out the number of titles and amount of wealth sitting on the government benches.

_Os_ wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:35 pm YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:24 pm

Ymx wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:03 pm Oh dear god this is the useless embarrassment we are facing being stuck with

"You could always go back where you came from if you don't like it."

Isn't that what the right wingnuts say?

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:23 pm She is a moron, but the researchers did make an explicit link to the present day according to that article. Makes me feel dirty to say, but I don't think she's wholly out of line in saying that research drawing a fairly tenuous and speculative gap, however couched in qualifications, between minority treatment then and now could be fairly inflammatory.

Of course, if she'd said nothing, this likely would have passed entirely without notice.

By examining five features of the skulls and comparing these with a forensic databank covering modern and historical global populations, it estimated the likely heritage of people who died and found that those of African heritage were disproportionately more likely to have died from plague than people of European or Asian ancestry, compared with non-plague deaths.

While stressing the need for caution given the sample size, the authors said the results suggested there was value in considering structural racism in such research, likening this to the higher death rates for people from some minority ethnic groups during Covid.

Stuff like that just reminds me why I didn't get on with the archaeology modules I had to do at uni when my first and second choice history modules were over-subscribed. It always felt like people groping around for a story to tell based on minimal evidence, combine that with the need to prove novelty of research avenue... I much preferred more modern periods where there was a greater written evidence base to get your teeth into.

_Os_ wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:35 pm YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

sefton wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:43 am Just watched Mone and Barrowman on BBC1, they don’t think they have done anything wrong, poster children of the entitlement and corruption of the Conservatives.

C69 wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:48 am

sefton wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:43 am Just watched Mone and Barrowman on BBC1, they don’t think they have done anything wrong, poster children of the entitlement and corruption of the Conservatives.

Mone clearly thinks she did nothing wrong at all.
A Prince Andrew sweat moment. A car crash.
Quite amazing

sefton wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:50 am this is not important next to Starmer not being able to define working class to some posters acceptable level.

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:52 am

sefton wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:50 am this is not important next to Starmer not being able to define working class to some posters acceptable level.

I'm reserving judgement until Sunak gives his answer.

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:52 am

sefton wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:50 am this is not important next to Starmer not being able to define working class to some posters acceptable level.

I'm reserving judgement until Sunak gives his answer.

Ymx wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:39 am

_Os_ wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:35 pm YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

As I said above, it’s he that is pushing this working class distinction in his propaganda. If you are batting a phrase around, you must expect to be asked about it.

His response was dribble.

yermum wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:51 am He must have lovely soft hands. Imagine going through life and never getting a callous or blister….

C69 wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:48 am

sefton wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:43 am Just watched Mone and Barrowman on BBC1, they don’t think they have done anything wrong, poster children of the entitlement and corruption of the Conservatives.

Mone clearly thinks she did nothing wrong at all.
A Prince Andrew sweat moment. A car crash.
Quite amazing

SaintK wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 11:16 am

Ymx wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:39 am

_Os_ wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:35 pm YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

As I said above, it’s he that is pushing this working class distinction in his propaganda. If you are batting a phrase around, you must expect to be asked about it.

His response was dribble.

Get used to it sunshine
The corrupt cunts you appear to support and their paymasters are soon going to be out of power.

Brazil wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:34 am https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:03 pm

Brazil wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:34 am https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.

Hard to draw a link to health services, but studies like this end up discrediting academia in general. See also the Cort metallurgy debate, and whilst it’s older a historian insisting that Anglo Saxons having the moniker ‘the black’ meant that they were highly diverse.

We’ve wildly overproduced academics.

SaintK wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 11:16 am

Ymx wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:39 am

_Os_ wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:35 pm YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

As I said above, it’s he that is pushing this working class distinction in his propaganda. If you are batting a phrase around, you must expect to be asked about it.

His response was dribble.

Get used to it sunshine
The corrupt cunts you appear to support and their paymasters are soon going to be out of power.

petej wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:36 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:03 pm

Brazil wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:34 am https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.

Hard to draw a link to health services, but studies like this end up discrediting academia in general. See also the Cort metallurgy debate, and whilst it’s older a historian insisting that Anglo Saxons having the moniker ‘the black’ meant that they were highly diverse.

We’ve wildly overproduced academics.

Working incredibly hard to draw any link to health services. Genetics and overall health (from environmental/living conditions) is obviously a variable so not a surprise or news story. Worth considering is also intentionally vague and you could also say feel free to ignore. Politicians seem so simplistic and everything is black and white.

On the academic stuff in my area of materials there is an incredible amount of pisspoor papers. Designing experiments and running comprehensive testing is a dying skill in academia and industry (aerospace, nuclear power, power generation).

Hal Jordan wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 5:17 pm Rwanda latest: Even if they try to fly people out of the country, no airline is willing to take the reputational damage. When the Home Office asked providers to sign contracts to get planes ready help the human trafficking scheme they all refused.

Some cunts will step up, I'm sure.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:31 pm

petej wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:36 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:03 pm

Hard to draw a link to health services, but studies like this end up discrediting academia in general. See also the Cort metallurgy debate, and whilst it’s older a historian insisting that Anglo Saxons having the moniker ‘the black’ meant that they were highly diverse.

We’ve wildly overproduced academics.

Working incredibly hard to draw any link to health services. Genetics and overall health (from environmental/living conditions) is obviously a variable so not a surprise or news story. Worth considering is also intentionally vague and you could also say feel free to ignore. Politicians seem so simplistic and everything is black and white.

On the academic stuff in my area of materials there is an incredible amount of pisspoor papers. Designing experiments and running comprehensive testing is a dying skill in academia and industry (aerospace, nuclear power, power generation).

An awful lot of history papers (the Cort ones included) are exceptionally poorly referenced, some to the extent that they are either prepared by someone who is incompetent or deliberately dishonest.

Calculon wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:19 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:23 pm She is a moron, but the researchers did make an explicit link to the present day according to that article. Makes me feel dirty to say, but I don't think she's wholly out of line in saying that research drawing a fairly tenuous and speculative gap, however couched in qualifications, between minority treatment then and now could be fairly inflammatory.

Of course, if she'd said nothing, this likely would have passed entirely without notice.

By examining five features of the skulls and comparing these with a forensic databank covering modern and historical global populations, it estimated the likely heritage of people who died and found that those of African heritage were disproportionately more likely to have died from plague than people of European or Asian ancestry, compared with non-plague deaths.

While stressing the need for caution given the sample size, the authors said the results suggested there was value in considering structural racism in such research, likening this to the higher death rates for people from some minority ethnic groups during Covid.

Stuff like that just reminds me why I didn't get on with the archaeology modules I had to do at uni when my first and second choice history modules were over-subscribed. It always felt like people groping around for a story to tell based on minimal evidence, combine that with the need to prove novelty of research avenue... I much preferred more modern periods where there was a greater written evidence base to get your teeth into.

The popular story to tell seems to be that England in the Middle Ages was racially diverse and full of non-whites.

Linked in that article:

Research has previously demonstrated that, far from being a homogeneous white society, medieval England – and its capital – had considerable diversity.


I suspect this is at least partly driven by the desire to combat white supremacist views that black people can’t be English or British. It does seem potentially counter productive though. Genuinely racist people are not going to believe that England in the Middle Ages was racially diverse, and to be fair, it is bollocks. Also, it does somewhat imply that the reason non-whites should be considered English or British is because there were non-whites in medieval England, rather than because they hold British citizenship. As far as I’m concerned if you hold a British passport, you’re 100% British whether you can trace your ancestors back to the time of Alfred the Great or if you’re Shamima Begum, who was treated disgracefully in having her citizenship revoked - don’t care what the Supreme Court says, also it’s a pretty obvious case of racism.

the authors said the results suggested there was value in considering structural racism in such research, likening this to the higher death rates for people from some minority ethnic groups during Covid


Also highly dubious about this. From what I’ve heard identity in the Middle Ages in England wasn’t based on racial identity but rather on your place in society and religion. So, a noble Christian Ethiopian would have been treated just fine but a peasant Muslim white would have a very hard time of it.


Interesting that the article is published in a book called “Bioarchaeology of Marginalized People”.

The Conservative MP Miriam Cates has been placed under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog, PA Media reports.
The backbench MP is facing claims that she has caused “significant damage to the reputation of the house as a whole, or of its members generally”, according to the parliamentary commissioner for standards, Daniel Greenberg, who lists active investigations on his website.
It is not known what the investigation relates to.