inactionman wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 10:14 am
Wondering if Borthwick will stick with the same team for Japan or give some of the up-and-coming a shot.
I'm not talking down on Japan, but you can't exactly risk a rookie in an All Blacks Test and we've got a fair few lads in the training squads who have shown promise but haven't made a Test squad yet.
It doesn't help that we're 0-for-3, of course, not an ideal time to be tinkering with squad options.
I'd be interested to see how the likes of Afo Fasogbon and Asher Opoku-Fordjour get on. I'll re-bang my Ted Hill drum at this point as well.
We gave Spencer his first start against NZ, all but a rookie, maybe even still a rookie depending on how one qualifies. And we lost without attacking much, so the scope for things to go worse was limited
Ben Spencer is 32 years old with well over 200 professional, club games under his belt. By rookie I was more thinking of some of the very promising England U20 front row.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2024 4:04 pm
by inactionman
SaintK wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 4:02 pm
Good win by EnglandA 38 17 by the looks after being 10 5 down at halftime
Sounds a very good second half.
Anyone any idea if there's some highlights up anywhere?
SaintK wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 4:02 pm
Good win by EnglandA 38 17 by the looks after being 10 5 down at halftime
Sounds a very good second half.
Anyone any idea if there's some highlights up anywhere?
Not sure
It was on Premier but might be up on the RFU site at some stage
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:11 am
by sockwithaticket
Opoku-Fordjour being widely reported as jumping up from the A team for the Japan game. Murley also in consideration (finally!).
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:13 am
by Oxbow
sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:11 am
Opoku-Fordjour being widely reported as jumping up from the A team for the Japan game. Murley also in consideration (finally!).
Hoping that means Freeman to centre and Slade jettisoned into the Sun.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:19 am
by epwc
Oxbow wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:13 amSlade jettisoned into the Sun.
sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:11 am
Opoku-Fordjour being widely reported as jumping up from the A team for the Japan game. Murley also in consideration (finally!).
Hoping that means Freeman to centre and Slade jettisoned into the Sun.
I suspect Murley would come onto the bench, it is honest toiler, complete non-revolutionary Borthwick doing the selecting after all.
Perhaps he may surprise us. Ideally we'll get one of Northmore or Lozowski at 12 and keep Lawrence at 13 with an all Saints back three. Why we opted to drop Furbank instead of playing him alongside his two clubmates is beyond me.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 10:17 am
by SaintK
So Sweeney is presiding over a £40m loss when the RFU present their accounts next week and the RFU are not expected to make a profit again for 10 years.
The last CEO who presided over a loss like that in 2018 resigned. Sweeney has apparently earned a £90k salary increase!!!!
Francis Baron is not amused https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20 ... like-this
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 10:28 am
by JM2K6
SaintK wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 10:17 am
So Sweeney is presiding over a £40m loss when the RFU present their accounts next week and the RFU are not expected to make a profit again for 10 years.
The last CEO who presided over a loss like that in 2018 resigned. Sweeney has apparently earned a £90k salary increase!!!!
Francis Baron is not amused https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20 ... like-this
There's a big loss every time we miss out on autumn internationals every four years. The actual report seemed pretty reasonable.
inactionman wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 10:14 am
Wondering if Borthwick will stick with the same team for Japan or give some of the up-and-coming a shot.
I'm not talking down on Japan, but you can't exactly risk a rookie in an All Blacks Test and we've got a fair few lads in the training squads who have shown promise but haven't made a Test squad yet.
It doesn't help that we're 0-for-3, of course, not an ideal time to be tinkering with squad options.
I'd be interested to see how the likes of Afo Fasogbon and Asher Opoku-Fordjour get on. I'll re-bang my Ted Hill drum at this point as well.
We gave Spencer his first start against NZ, all but a rookie, maybe even still a rookie depending on how one qualifies. And we lost without attacking much, so the scope for things to go worse was limited
Ben Spencer is 32 years old with well over 200 professional, club games under his belt. By rookie I was more thinking of some of the very promising England U20 front row.
Total waste of time giving a first cap to anyone over say 27-28, especially a back
sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:11 am
Opoku-Fordjour being widely reported as jumping up from the A team for the Japan game. Murley also in consideration (finally!).
Hoping that means Freeman to centre and Slade jettisoned into the Sun.
I suspect Murley would come onto the bench, it is honest toiler, complete non-revolutionary Borthwick doing the selecting after all.
Perhaps he may surprise us. Ideally we'll get one of Northmore or Lozowski at 12 and keep Lawrence at 13 with an all Saints back three. Why we opted to drop Furbank instead of playing him alongside his two clubmates is beyond me.
Murley at his best is Sleightholme levels of pace and power, so that makes some sense. However, he's had a rough 12 months or so with injury and I don't believe he's back to his best yet, though I haven't seen the A game.
A real gambler's choice would be Ibitoye!
Furbank should never have been dropped, Slade should never have been gambled on, and Loz or Dingwall have a lot going for them and should've been given the opportunity.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 12:44 pm
by Oxbow
Dingwall had a great game against Australia A. He doesn't do anything spectacular or flashy, he just does things well. He's the glue that holds a backline together.
Even with all Saints' joyous attacking talent he'd be one of the first names on the team sheet. I'm not saying he's definitely the answer to England's midfield, but he has to be worth another look given we have no backup at 12 at all, and Japan would have been the ideal game.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 12:57 pm
by Sinkers
Full A game is here for those interested
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 1:14 pm
by sockwithaticket
I'm very much game for giving Dingwall another shot. The early team performances in this 6N were dire and I don't think getting your first 2 caps in that sort of mess is going to see anyone shine unless they're the second coming of prime Dan Carter. I only suggest Northmore and Lozowski because they're the other 2 senior squad options at the moment and I can't see Borthwick elevating Dingwall above them. With Feyi-Waboso and Daly out Murley has an obvious line of promotion from the A team.
Furbank; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; M Smith, Van Poortvliet; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, T Curry, Underhill, Earl.
Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Opoku-Fordjour, Isiekwe, Cunningham-South, Randall, F Smith, Roebuck.
Good to see Furbank back in and Opoku-Fordjour and Smith F on the bench, but mostly the same old shit. What are we going to learn playing the likes of Slade and Isiekwe in games like this. The Murley rumours were false too. Hugely wasted opportunity.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:31 pm
by Ovals
Oxbow wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:12 pm
Furbank; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; M Smith, Van Poortvliet; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, T Curry, Underhill, Earl.
Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Opoku-Fordjour, Isiekwe, Cunningham-South, Randall, F Smith, Roebuck.
Good to see Furbank back in and Opoku-Fordjour and Smith F on the bench, but mostly the same old shit. What are we going to learn playing the likes of Slade and Isiekwe in games like this. The Murley rumours were false too. Hugely wasted opportunity.
That's the problem of losing all 3 of the matches so far - he was always going to play it safe with minimal changes. Why risk Curry again ? And how on earth is JVP still at 9 ?
Only hope is that they bring Roebuck on early and shift Freeman to 13 with Lawrence @ 12. Trouble is; nothing that happens in this game means anything in terms of how the players would get on against the top nations.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:32 pm
by sockwithaticket
Official graphic:
I'll add to what you've said Oxbow with a hearty WTF?! about Curry's selection. Why are we rushing a guy back from being sparked out to play Japan in general, but especially when we have a long list of back row players who could be selected instead?
This game may well be more JVP's speed at the moment, but I still think him coming in to start ahead of Randall is weird.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:38 pm
by Slick
sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:32 pm
Official graphic:
I'll add to what you've said Oxbow with a hearty WTF?! about Curry's selection. Why are we rushing a guy back from being sparked out to play Japan in general, but especially when we have a long list of back row players who could be selected instead?
This game may well be more JVP's speed at the moment, but I still think him coming in to start ahead of Randall is weird.
Also amazed at that, seems absolutely ridiculous.
I see Slade is back in. I like him generally but he is so obviously an issue in that England team it seems incredible.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:58 pm
by sockwithaticket
I appreciate that having had to change defence coach (again... ) and with our attack essentially being 'wait for Marcus to do something special' that our systems aren't really functional and thus you want to play as close to a first team as possible to try and bed some things in ahead of the 6N. However that's still possible without risking Curry and removing a player who in 60+ caps has rarely looked like a useful part of the team.
England fans don't often agree on things, but both here and reddit there seems to be near unanimity on the Slade problem.
Oxbow wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:12 pm
Furbank; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; M Smith, Van Poortvliet; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, T Curry, Underhill, Earl.
Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Opoku-Fordjour, Isiekwe, Cunningham-South, Randall, F Smith, Roebuck.
Good to see Furbank back in and Opoku-Fordjour and Smith F on the bench, but mostly the same old shit. What are we going to learn playing the likes of Slade and Isiekwe in games like this. The Murley rumours were false too. Hugely wasted opportunity.
That's the problem of losing all 3 of the matches so far - he was always going to play it safe with minimal changes. Why risk Curry again ? And how on earth is JVP still at 9 ?
Only hope is that they bring Roebuck on early and shift Freeman to 13 with Lawrence @ 12. Trouble is; nothing that happens in this game means anything in terms of how the players would get on against the top nations.
I think that's definitely played into his thinking - but you'd still hope he'd address the issues in midfield.
Really think Randall needs to start a game, although he'll at least be alongside one of the Smiths - much as I rate Ford he's not looked up to speed for a while.
Oxbow wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:12 pm
Furbank; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; M Smith, Van Poortvliet; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, T Curry, Underhill, Earl.
Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Opoku-Fordjour, Isiekwe, Cunningham-South, Randall, F Smith, Roebuck.
Good to see Furbank back in and Opoku-Fordjour and Smith F on the bench, but mostly the same old shit. What are we going to learn playing the likes of Slade and Isiekwe in games like this. The Murley rumours were false too. Hugely wasted opportunity.
That's the problem of losing all 3 of the matches so far - he was always going to play it safe with minimal changes. Why risk Curry again ? And how on earth is JVP still at 9 ?
Only hope is that they bring Roebuck on early and shift Freeman to 13 with Lawrence @ 12. Trouble is; nothing that happens in this game means anything in terms of how the players would get on against the top nations.
Curry needs to be stood down for a good while
5 concussions in 2 years is not good for his future health and wellbeing
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 8:22 pm
by Insane_Homer
Screenshot_20241122-201917.png (729.92 KiB) Viewed 967 times
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:20 pm
by Ovals
Insane_Homer wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 8:22 pm
Screenshot_20241122-201917.png
There'll be hell to pay if Curry gets another nasty blow to the noggin.
Utterly, especially when there are more than adequate replace ments
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2024 11:46 am
by Stranger
The optics are terrible, rugby loves to keep shooting it's self in the foot.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:07 pm
by JM2K6
The media has picked up on this at least
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 10:40 am
by inactionman
Talk of Liam Williams back to Saracens.
On his day, a very good player, but he's not had much rugby over last few seasons.
Is it just Goode and Daly at 15 for Sarries?
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 11:10 am
by SaintK
inactionman wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 10:40 am
Talk of Liam Williams back to Saracens.
On his day, a very good player, but he's not had much rugby over last few seasons.
Is it just Goode and Daly at 15 for Sarries?
Fissler reported it on RugbyPass last week.
Only a rumour at the moment though Goode is likely out for at least 3 months by the sounds and they need cover.
They also have Parton as a full back
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 11:13 am
by JM2K6
Parton has been very good for them
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:00 am
by Ovals
Sleightholme has proved to be an excellent winger for England - so what do they do when Waboso, who has to start, is fit again ? They'll either have to drop Freeman or move him into centre.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:03 am
by SaintK
Ovals wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:00 am
Sleightholme has proved to be an excellent winger for England - so what do they do when Waboso, who has to start, is fit again ? They'll either have to drop Freeman or move him into centre.
Ot to the bench to cover the back 3 and 13?
I'd like to seem him more at 13 for Saints leading up to the 6N
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:14 am
by SaintK
So let's get this right.
Despite presiding over the worst run of games by the England senior squad since the Ashton/Johnson era, the biggest fiancial loss ever by the RFU with a forecast of no profits for the next 5 or 6 years, the forced redundancy of 40 more Twickenham support staff, a huge cut in support for the grassroots game and reneging on an agreement to fund a second professional tier whilst giving £250m to the Premiership over the next 6 years.
Bill Sweeney is awarded a £350K bonus to his recently enhanced £750K salary this year!!!!
No wonder the cunt never wants to give press briefings or take questions. He can fuck right off back to wherever he came from. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... d-losses
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:38 am
by Ovals
SaintK wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:14 am
So let's get this right.
Despite presiding over the worst run of games by the England senior squad since the Ashton/Johnson era, the biggest fiancial loss ever by the RFU with a forecast of no profits for the next 5 or 6 years, the forced redundancy of 40 more Twickenham support staff, a huge cut in support for the grassroots game and reneging on an agreement to fund a second professional tier whilst giving £250m to the Premiership over the next 6 years.
Bill Sweeney is awarded a £350K bonus to his recently enhanced £750K salary this year!!!!
No wonder the cunt never wants to give press briefings or take questions. He can fuck right off back to wherever he came from. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... d-losses
Also seen 3 Premiership teams bit the dust !!
Hard to see how he could have done a worse job.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:39 am
by inactionman
SaintK wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:14 am
So let's get this right.
Despite presiding over the worst run of games by the England senior squad since the Ashton/Johnson era, the biggest fiancial loss ever by the RFU with a forecast of no profits for the next 5 or 6 years, the forced redundancy of 40 more Twickenham support staff, a huge cut in support for the grassroots game and reneging on an agreement to fund a second professional tier whilst giving £250m to the Premiership over the next 6 years.
Bill Sweeney is awarded a £350K bonus to his recently enhanced £750K salary this year!!!!
No wonder the cunt never wants to give press briefings or take questions. He can fuck right off back to wherever he came from. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... d-losses
It's not often I read an article and get angry, but that did cause a few expletives to be aired.
There's a lot to dislike, but awarding a hefty pay rise after a load of budget-driven redundancies is shocking.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:44 am
by sockwithaticket
We see this all the time outside of rugby too, high profile members of an organisation getting big bonuses despite, ostensibly, the organisation doing badly on the whole. You've really got to wonder what the contract conditions are for earning that bonus, managing to get dressed every day?
If you get a bonus regardless of performance it's just pay really.
SaintK wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:14 am
So let's get this right.
Despite presiding over the worst run of games by the England senior squad since the Ashton/Johnson era, the biggest fiancial loss ever by the RFU with a forecast of no profits for the next 5 or 6 years, the forced redundancy of 40 more Twickenham support staff, a huge cut in support for the grassroots game and reneging on an agreement to fund a second professional tier whilst giving £250m to the Premiership over the next 6 years.
Bill Sweeney is awarded a £350K bonus to his recently enhanced £750K salary this year!!!!
No wonder the cunt never wants to give press briefings or take questions. He can fuck right off back to wherever he came from. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... d-losses
It's not often I read an article and get angry, but that did cause a few expletives to be aired.
There's a lot to dislike, but awarding a hefty pay rise after a load of budget-driven redundancies is shocking.
I don't think the hefty pay rise is in any way justified, but it's worth remembering that it was awarded in the last financial year, not this one. Last year England got to a RWC semi-final, came 3rd overall and won 3 games in the 6N, including beating Ireland, and the financial losses can be attributed to the lack of autumn games at Twickenham, so on paper it looks like a pretty successful season.
The dreadful run of defeats and the wholesale redundancies are all in this financial year. If he gets another similar bonus this year, then that really would be shocking
SaintK wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:14 am
So let's get this right.
Despite presiding over the worst run of games by the England senior squad since the Ashton/Johnson era, the biggest fiancial loss ever by the RFU with a forecast of no profits for the next 5 or 6 years, the forced redundancy of 40 more Twickenham support staff, a huge cut in support for the grassroots game and reneging on an agreement to fund a second professional tier whilst giving £250m to the Premiership over the next 6 years.
Bill Sweeney is awarded a £350K bonus to his recently enhanced £750K salary this year!!!!
No wonder the cunt never wants to give press briefings or take questions. He can fuck right off back to wherever he came from. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... d-losses
It's not often I read an article and get angry, but that did cause a few expletives to be aired.
There's a lot to dislike, but awarding a hefty pay rise after a load of budget-driven redundancies is shocking.
I don't think the hefty pay rise is in any way justified, but it's worth remembering that it was awarded in the last financial year, not this one. Last year England got to a RWC semi-final, came 3rd overall and won 3 games in the 6N, including beating Ireland, and the financial losses can be attributed to the lack of autumn games at Twickenham, so on paper it looks like a pretty successful season.
The dreadful run of defeats and the wholesale redundancies are all in this financial year. If he gets another similar bonus this year, then that really would be shocking
True, although the lack of autumn game isn't unknown and we don't seem to plan very well around it. Which should be Sweeney's remit.
) and with our attack essentially being 'wait for Marcus to do something special' that our systems aren't really functional and thus you want to play as close to a first team as possible to try and bed some things in ahead of the 6N. However that's still possible without risking Curry and removing a player who in 60+ caps has rarely looked like a useful part of the team.