NPR

Simian wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 3:28 pm much more engaging game than I expected

Blackmac wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 3:59 pm How can a top class ref not see the Toulouse offences at that maul.

Tichtheid wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 4:21 pm Oh no! He looks badly hurt now.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 3:02 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:07 am You need to make your peace with English rugby being what it is, played and supported by the people it is. It’s not changing and bringing through a disproportionately private school group hasn’t stopped England and English clubs from being dominant in the past, nor caused major issues for Ireland whilst they’ve been dominant more recently.

The Premiership is a great league in a number of ways, defence is however very much secondary. Coupled with the fact that French squads seem double the size it has predictable results. And in truth I don’t think a single English side this year feels they can genuinely win the comp, so why take it too seriously when the Premiership has a wacky race for the playoffs incoming?

Northampton excepted for the obvious reason that despite putting 40 past a top 14 club they are out of the title race so may as well have a crack.

Your first paragraph is true and maybe too early to go Jim Morrisson and say it's the end, but Eng rugby seems to be in a lot of trouble from the top down.

Big article in the Torygraph about the Prem not bothering with defending. And it generally has made for a better spectacle (certainly more than the at least 50% of turgid sh*te we see in the T14 every week). However
i) It feels like we are reaching a bit of Harlem Globe Trotters about it all now. When defenders aren't even trying, racking up dozens of points just becomes cheapened.
ii) The reality is unless the laws of the game change substantially, the like of Saints cannot play to entertain when they can't get the ball.

Kawazaki wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:42 pm French paratrooper...




What an absolute tool.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 6:19 pm Was hoping the Sharks get through.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:40 pm

We certainly operate in a much more competitive sports market than French rugby does - English club football is a behemoth that there’s precious little we can do to stop, and not just the Premier League or even the Championship. The same is just not true in France and has given rugby it’s opening.

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:45 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:40 pm

We certainly operate in a much more competitive sports market than French rugby does - English club football is a behemoth that there’s precious little we can do to stop, and not just the Premier League or even the Championship. The same is just not true in France and has given rugby it’s opening.

I could follow the rest f your post but I'm not sure about this - football is hugely popular in France, especially in the cities. My experience of sport from living in France was that there is a huge backing for and interest in many sports - football, tennis, rugby union, rugby league, golf, cycling, handball, fencing and probably many more. Hunting is very popular as a participation though I'd hesitate to call it a sport, many do though. There are particular cultural sports too, I saw lots of pelota courts in the Basque Country.

The pressure on many sports in France comes from the diversity of pastimes but football is still the big gun there.

My experience is a long time ago now, I'd be interested to hear from our French posters if that experience is still valid.

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:08 am

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:45 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:40 pm

We certainly operate in a much more competitive sports market than French rugby does - English club football is a behemoth that there’s precious little we can do to stop, and not just the Premier League or even the Championship. The same is just not true in France and has given rugby it’s opening.

I could follow the rest f your post but I'm not sure about this - football is hugely popular in France, especially in the cities. My experience of sport from living in France was that there is a huge backing for and interest in many sports - football, tennis, rugby union, rugby league, golf, cycling, handball, fencing and probably many more. Hunting is very popular as a participation though I'd hesitate to call it a sport, many do though. There are particular cultural sports too, I saw lots of pelota courts in the Basque Country.

The pressure on many sports in France comes from the diversity of pastimes but football is still the big gun there.

My experience is a long time ago now, I'd be interested to hear from our French posters if that experience is still valid.

Football is popular in France but there is no comparison between the pro game there and what it is in England - League One boasts crowds that are similar to Premiership rugby and that’s over 40 teams down from the top! Even non-league games tend to attract crowds that dwarf the rugby Championship. The French league, as opposed to their national team, is a bit of a joke and lacks the crowds, interest and passion of English club football.

It’s not a shock that it’s places like Northampton, Bath, Bristol and Exeter that tend to be considered rugby hotbeds - there either isn’t a football team to compete with or the team(s) are rubbish.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:40 pm I wouldn’t say English rugby is in total decline - 82,000 turn up regardless of who England are playing, the club game has a good tv deal and a committed broadcaster, 9 of the 10 prem clubs get good attendances (good of course is a relative concept but all are clearly healthy). The prem badly needs someone to buy Newcastle and/or invest in another side, admittedly, and the club game is likely in terminal decline. The latter isn’t unique though.

We certainly operate in a much more competitive sports market than French rugby does - English club football is a behemoth that there’s precious little we can do to stop, and not just the Premier League or even the Championship. The same is just not true in France and has given rugby it’s opening.

Broadly agree on defences and English sides playing without the ball, you saw with Sarries and Sale this weekend pretty brave efforts fall apart in the second half (one much more than the other), where it felt like they just couldn’t touch the ball and had no way of getting it.

Kawazaki wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:42 pm French paratrooper...




What an absolute tool.

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:08 am

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:45 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:40 pm

We certainly operate in a much more competitive sports market than French rugby does - English club football is a behemoth that there’s precious little we can do to stop, and not just the Premier League or even the Championship. The same is just not true in France and has given rugby it’s opening.

I could follow the rest f your post but I'm not sure about this - football is hugely popular in France, especially in the cities. My experience of sport from living in France was that there is a huge backing for and interest in many sports - football, tennis, rugby union, rugby league, golf, cycling, handball, fencing and probably many more. Hunting is very popular as a participation though I'd hesitate to call it a sport, many do though. There are particular cultural sports too, I saw lots of pelota courts in the Basque Country.

The pressure on many sports in France comes from the diversity of pastimes but football is still the big gun there.

My experience is a long time ago now, I'd be interested to hear from our French posters if that experience is still valid.

Football is popular in France but there is no comparison between the pro game there and what it is in England - League One boasts crowds that are similar to Premiership rugby and that’s over 40 teams down from the top! Even non-league games tend to attract crowds that dwarf the rugby Championship. The French league, as opposed to their national team, is a bit of a joke and lacks the crowds, interest and passion of English club football.

It’s not a shock that it’s places like Northampton, Bath, Bristol and Exeter that tend to be considered rugby hotbeds - there either isn’t a football team to compete with or the team(s) are rubbish.

SaintK wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 10:18 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:08 am

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:45 am


I could follow the rest f your post but I'm not sure about this - football is hugely popular in France, especially in the cities. My experience of sport from living in France was that there is a huge backing for and interest in many sports - football, tennis, rugby union, rugby league, golf, cycling, handball, fencing and probably many more. Hunting is very popular as a participation though I'd hesitate to call it a sport, many do though. There are particular cultural sports too, I saw lots of pelota courts in the Basque Country.

The pressure on many sports in France comes from the diversity of pastimes but football is still the big gun there.

My experience is a long time ago now, I'd be interested to hear from our French posters if that experience is still valid.

Football is popular in France but there is no comparison between the pro game there and what it is in England - League One boasts crowds that are similar to Premiership rugby and that’s over 40 teams down from the top! Even non-league games tend to attract crowds that dwarf the rugby Championship. The French league, as opposed to their national team, is a bit of a joke and lacks the crowds, interest and passion of English club football.

It’s not a shock that it’s places like Northampton, Bath, Bristol and Exeter that tend to be considered rugby hotbeds - there either isn’t a football team to compete with or the team(s) are rubbish.

I'd say Gloucester.
Bristol have two football league clubs.
Bristol City are near the top of the Championship and get reasonabl crowds. Bristol Bears play at their stadium as it's also owned by Steve Landsdown

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:08 am Football is popular in France but there is no comparison between the pro game there and what it is in England - League One boasts crowds that are similar to Premiership rugby and that’s over 40 teams down from the top! Even non-league games tend to attract crowds that dwarf the rugby Championship. The French league, as opposed to their national team, is a bit of a joke and lacks the crowds, interest and passion of English club football.

It’s not a shock that it’s places like Northampton, Bath, Bristol and Exeter that tend to be considered rugby hotbeds - there either isn’t a football team to compete with or the team(s) are rubbish.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:40 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 3:02 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:07 am You need to make your peace with English rugby being what it is, played and supported by the people it is. It’s not changing and bringing through a disproportionately private school group hasn’t stopped England and English clubs from being dominant in the past, nor caused major issues for Ireland whilst they’ve been dominant more recently.

The Premiership is a great league in a number of ways, defence is however very much secondary. Coupled with the fact that French squads seem double the size it has predictable results. And in truth I don’t think a single English side this year feels they can genuinely win the comp, so why take it too seriously when the Premiership has a wacky race for the playoffs incoming?

Northampton excepted for the obvious reason that despite putting 40 past a top 14 club they are out of the title race so may as well have a crack.

Your first paragraph is true and maybe too early to go Jim Morrisson and say it's the end, but Eng rugby seems to be in a lot of trouble from the top down.

Big article in the Torygraph about the Prem not bothering with defending. And it generally has made for a better spectacle (certainly more than the at least 50% of turgid sh*te we see in the T14 every week). However
i) It feels like we are reaching a bit of Harlem Globe Trotters about it all now. When defenders aren't even trying, racking up dozens of points just becomes cheapened.
ii) The reality is unless the laws of the game change substantially, the like of Saints cannot play to entertain when they can't get the ball.

I wouldn’t say English rugby is in total decline - 82,000 turn up regardless of who England are playing, the club game has a good tv deal and a committed broadcaster, 9 of the 10 prem clubs get good attendances (good of course is a relative concept but all are clearly healthy). The prem badly needs someone to buy Newcastle and/or invest in another side, admittedly, and the club game is likely in terminal decline. The latter isn’t unique though.

We certainly operate in a much more competitive sports market than French rugby does - English club football is a behemoth that there’s precious little we can do to stop, and not just the Premier League or even the Championship. The same is just not true in France and has given rugby it’s opening.

Broadly agree on defences and English sides playing without the ball, you saw with Sarries and Sale this weekend pretty brave efforts fall apart in the second half (one much more than the other), where it felt like they just couldn’t touch the ball and had no way of getting it.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 10:41 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:08 am

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:45 am


I could follow the rest f your post but I'm not sure about this - football is hugely popular in France, especially in the cities. My experience of sport from living in France was that there is a huge backing for and interest in many sports - football, tennis, rugby union, rugby league, golf, cycling, handball, fencing and probably many more. Hunting is very popular as a participation though I'd hesitate to call it a sport, many do though. There are particular cultural sports too, I saw lots of pelota courts in the Basque Country.

The pressure on many sports in France comes from the diversity of pastimes but football is still the big gun there.

My experience is a long time ago now, I'd be interested to hear from our French posters if that experience is still valid.

Football is popular in France but there is no comparison between the pro game there and what it is in England - League One boasts crowds that are similar to Premiership rugby and that’s over 40 teams down from the top! Even non-league games tend to attract crowds that dwarf the rugby Championship. The French league, as opposed to their national team, is a bit of a joke and lacks the crowds, interest and passion of English club football.

It’s not a shock that it’s places like Northampton, Bath, Bristol and Exeter that tend to be considered rugby hotbeds - there either isn’t a football team to compete with or the team(s) are rubbish.

There is a difference here;
- French rugby has gates all the way down the leagues. Pro 2 gets average gates of around 6k which I suspect isn't a mile behind the Prem?
- French football average gates outside the top 10 drop off quickly to below what most T14 clubs are pulling.

Tichtheid has a point though about sporting attendances as a whole: I suspect the Fre public watching is higher per capita than the UK.

2 other thoughts
- watching rugby in England is way more expensive than in France
- gate capacity is generally lower. What does Bath hold for example. Of course, many Fre clubs have the luxury of municipal stadiums.

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 10:42 am
Not sure how I left Gloucester off the list! Both Bristol football teams are both crap and poorly supported for the size of the place, it is the least football mad of England (Britain’s?) big cities

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 10:44 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:08 am Football is popular in France but there is no comparison between the pro game there and what it is in England - League One boasts crowds that are similar to Premiership rugby and that’s over 40 teams down from the top! Even non-league games tend to attract crowds that dwarf the rugby Championship. The French league, as opposed to their national team, is a bit of a joke and lacks the crowds, interest and passion of English club football.

It’s not a shock that it’s places like Northampton, Bath, Bristol and Exeter that tend to be considered rugby hotbeds - there either isn’t a football team to compete with or the team(s) are rubbish.

You have a very disproportionate spread of clubs geographically. Broadly all located in a small area in the Midlands or the SW with the real possibility of only Sale existing in the North next season. Part of this comes down to the demographics again.