NPR

Goose was the traditional Christmas roast for a long time, until turkeys came on the market and were cheaper/better value.

On the evolution/diet discussion, the major advantage that we have pushed as a species is our ability to adapt to and survive in such a range of environments. This means that we can spread out and, more importantly, react to changes in the environment. Part of that is being omnivorous, but it does not mean we are well adapted to eating meat all the time (I say this as someone who struggles to get through any day without something's flesh passing my lips). Similarly, They reckon that our digestive system and metabolisms are still catching up on dealing with the processed foods that are a result of settling into agriculture rather than hunting and gathering. Hence the Paleo diets etc. So whilst we are great at adapting to survive in the short-term, longer-term we are still adapting to processing various foods that we were not originally designed for. Dairy is a good example: western europeans are better at processing it than others, but even many of them are intolerant of it to some degree despite it being present in ancestors' diets for several thousand years. So, as others have pointed out, the negative effects of those other diets come through when we reach older ages that were rarely achieved back in the day.

I like neeps wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:02 pmI probably agree with the article ultra processed food and low fat is probably a nonsense answered by moderation. However to say it's healthy because it's natural is just a bananas thing to say when a not insignificant amount of naturally occuring plants/mushrooms absolutely would kill us.

I think the point they're making by using the word "foods" is that the diet we evolved with is natural, not that everything we can put in our mouths that happens to be unprocessed is natural.

It's still a fairly facile statement and definitely made me mutter "oh, for fuck's sake" when I read it, but if something you eat is gonna kill you, it's not food...

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:48 pm

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:13 am
I am sitting here perplexed by the notion that a lot of people are 'outraged' that these poor piglets are being culled - yet have no issue with pigs being slaughtered on a daily basis. I would imagine that the death is pretty similar from the pigs POV anyway - regardless where its corpse ends up.

Slaughter for the purpose of providing food is simply different to slaughter so we don't have to pay to feed them. It's a waste, an upsetting one, and it damages many farms economically. That the pigs die either way isn't the whole of it

Personally - the fact that the pigs are slaughtered either way is pretty upsetting. Just a sentient living being that is merely a commodity to be ended whenever the human chooses.

I hate being a preachy vegan (is there any other kind?) but for some reason - pig slaughter is the one that really effects me. Incredible intelligent, social and sensitive animals being gassed and bled.

I'm a feckin softy.

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:44 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:48 pm

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:13 am
I am sitting here perplexed by the notion that a lot of people are 'outraged' that these poor piglets are being culled - yet have no issue with pigs being slaughtered on a daily basis. I would imagine that the death is pretty similar from the pigs POV anyway - regardless where its corpse ends up.

Slaughter for the purpose of providing food is simply different to slaughter so we don't have to pay to feed them. It's a waste, an upsetting one, and it damages many farms economically. That the pigs die either way isn't the whole of it

Personally - the fact that the pigs are slaughtered either way is pretty upsetting. Just a sentient living being that is merely a commodity to be ended whenever the human chooses.

I hate being a preachy vegan (is there any other kind?) but for some reason - pig slaughter is the one that really effects me. Incredible intelligent, social and sensitive animals being gassed and bled.

I'm a feckin softy.

Not just a softy, but in the same camp as Boris Johnson taking the view they're going the killed whatever and there isn't a distinction between doing so for food supply and simply culling them. For myself I'd be more concerned about the being in the same camp as Boris rather than the softy label

Perhaps the owners of the pigs will set up an "Adopt a piggy" scheme...any takers?

Maybe the vegans will. The farmers are going to cull to avoid financial harm, but if they were paid enough the pigs could stay

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:56 pm Not just a softy, but in the same camp as Boris Johnson taking the view they're going the killed whatever and there isn't a distinction between doing so for food supply and simply culling them. For myself I'd be more concerned about the being in the same camp as Boris rather than the softy label

Nope.

I'm in the camp where I would prefer that pigs weren't slaughtered at all. I don't care if it is food or culling - it is all horrific in my eyes.

I can't do the mental gymnastics to be OK with one slaughter and not the other. The pig doesn't feel a sense of satisfaction that their 'sacrifice' is for the good of others. The pig just gets to feel fear, terror and pain - and ultimately dies years before their life would normally end.

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:03 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:56 pm Not just a softy, but in the same camp as Boris Johnson taking the view they're going the killed whatever and there isn't a distinction between doing so for food supply and simply culling them. For myself I'd be more concerned about the being in the same camp as Boris rather than the softy label

Nope.

I'm in the camp where I would prefer that pigs weren't slaughtered at all. I don't care if it is food or culling - it is all horrific in my eyes.

I can't do the mental gymnastics to be OK with one slaughter and not the other. The pig doesn't feel a sense of satisfaction that their 'sacrifice' is for the good of others. The pig just gets to feel fear, terror and pain - and ultimately dies years before their life would normally end.

I agree. Morally it isn't right... though I am not a vegan myself, I am a hypocrite vegan. I completely believe in not killing animals if you don't have to. But I still eat them because I am selfish and love the taste. I just want the powers that be to take the decision out of my hands. I am sure meat won't be on the menu in 50 years time as we become more civilised...

I'm having Conchigli pasta mixed with a beef Bolognese and a home made cheesy white sauce tonight. It's basically a lasagne with shells instead of sheets.

It's not vegan. I have no good reason for mentioning it on a thread about people panic buying fuel.

I've got fuel twice in the last two weeks.... didn't have to queue once. Haven't seen the same scale of panic buying in rural Yorkshire.

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:51 pm I'm having Conchigli pasta mixed with a beef Bolognese and a home made cheesy white sauce tonight. It's basically a lasagne with shells instead of sheets.

It's not vegan. I have no good reason for mentioning it on a thread about people panic buying fuel.

Yep, those Asda ready meals are great

I couldn't find draught excluder while shopping yesterday, if I find some next time I'm going to buy every fucking pack

I'm getting frustrated by punters snapping up the electric cars I was lining up before I even got to take a proper look at them. Frustrated in that I've been saving for one and was getting close to pushing the button in perfect time for demand to shoot up.

It's like camper vans in 'staycation mode', we were deliberating buying one prior to covid but prices went through roof, knocking it on head.

If there's one lesson for me here it's not to prevaricate around buying vehicles.

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:07 pm

FalseBayFC wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:58 am

Ymx wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:27 am Turkey is a rubbish roasted meat.

Only good in mince form.

I spent a November/December many years ago on a Turkey farm in Berkshire. Killing and processing thousands of turkeys and geese. We lived in mobile homes with half a dozen kiwi backpackers. It was like one long alcoholic blur. Then the travellers arrived to do the plucking. The kiwi boys immediately began going after their women. Within one day there was a full scale brawl going on in the plucking shed. A big maori chap called Jason mowing down gypsy fellows. I am still Facebook friends with him 28 years later.

I lived in a similar set up on a farm in West Sussex, the farmer supplied farm services across the county - tractor driving, milking, shearing, fencing (me) and general farm labour.
We mostly had Kiwis, but also a few Aussies (we had a couple called Kylie and a Danny, collectively nicknamed the Minogues) and a couple of South Africans.

Also, when I worked in the Pyrenees I fenced on a Monastery cork plantation, the harvest was done by Portuguese Gypsies who travelled north with the season each year.

Yeah I did several stints on farms in the UK and Scotland when I left the army. It was great.

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:03 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:56 pm Not just a softy, but in the same camp as Boris Johnson taking the view they're going the killed whatever and there isn't a distinction between doing so for food supply and simply culling them. For myself I'd be more concerned about the being in the same camp as Boris rather than the softy label

Nope.

I'm in the camp where I would prefer that pigs weren't slaughtered at all. I don't care if it is food or culling - it is all horrific in my eyes.

I can't do the mental gymnastics to be OK with one slaughter and not the other. The pig doesn't feel a sense of satisfaction that their 'sacrifice' is for the good of others. The pig just gets to feel fear, terror and pain - and ultimately dies years before their life would normally end.

I’m with you

Me too

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:03 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:56 pm Not just a softy, but in the same camp as Boris Johnson taking the view they're going the killed whatever and there isn't a distinction between doing so for food supply and simply culling them. For myself I'd be more concerned about the being in the same camp as Boris rather than the softy label

Nope.

I'm in the camp where I would prefer that pigs weren't slaughtered at all. I don't care if it is food or culling - it is all horrific in my eyes.

I can't do the mental gymnastics to be OK with one slaughter and not the other. The pig doesn't feel a sense of satisfaction that their 'sacrifice' is for the good of others. The pig just gets to feel fear, terror and pain - and ultimately dies years before their life would normally end.

Without getting into the ethics, they aren't dying years before their life would normally end, because without meat farming, they would not have existed in the first place.

Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:20 pm

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:03 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:56 pm Not just a softy, but in the same camp as Boris Johnson taking the view they're going the killed whatever and there isn't a distinction between doing so for food supply and simply culling them. For myself I'd be more concerned about the being in the same camp as Boris rather than the softy label

Nope.

I'm in the camp where I would prefer that pigs weren't slaughtered at all. I don't care if it is food or culling - it is all horrific in my eyes.

I can't do the mental gymnastics to be OK with one slaughter and not the other. The pig doesn't feel a sense of satisfaction that their 'sacrifice' is for the good of others. The pig just gets to feel fear, terror and pain - and ultimately dies years before their life would normally end.

Without getting into the ethics, they aren't dying years before their life would normally end, because without meat farming, they would not have existed in the first place.

And to be fair to pigs, they bloody freak out if you just pick them up!

Slick wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:31 pm

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:03 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:56 pm Not just a softy, but in the same camp as Boris Johnson taking the view they're going the killed whatever and there isn't a distinction between doing so for food supply and simply culling them. For myself I'd be more concerned about the being in the same camp as Boris rather than the softy label

Nope.

I'm in the camp where I would prefer that pigs weren't slaughtered at all. I don't care if it is food or culling - it is all horrific in my eyes.

I can't do the mental gymnastics to be OK with one slaughter and not the other. The pig doesn't feel a sense of satisfaction that their 'sacrifice' is for the good of others. The pig just gets to feel fear, terror and pain - and ultimately dies years before their life would normally end.

I’m with you

Agreed.

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:09 pm

I’m with you.

Niegs wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:48 pm

And to be fair to pigs, they bloody freak out if you just pick them up!

Christ, if that thing tried to pick me up I would also freak out

Ymx wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:19 pm

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:09 pm

I’m with you.

Me too.

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:09 pm

Your best ever post, despite the ketchup

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:09 pm

Brown sauce FFS not ketchup

SaintK wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:52 am

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:09 pm

Brown sauce FFS not ketchup

Word

Also is that bread toasted? That might be worse than the ketchup if so

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:03 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:56 pm Not just a softy, but in the same camp as Boris Johnson taking the view they're going the killed whatever and there isn't a distinction between doing so for food supply and simply culling them. For myself I'd be more concerned about the being in the same camp as Boris rather than the softy label

Nope.

I'm in the camp where I would prefer that pigs weren't slaughtered at all. I don't care if it is food or culling - it is all horrific in my eyes.

I can't do the mental gymnastics to be OK with one slaughter and not the other. The pig doesn't feel a sense of satisfaction that their 'sacrifice' is for the good of others. The pig just gets to feel fear, terror and pain - and ultimately dies years before their life would normally end.

You may not care if there's a purpose, but it shouldn't perplex you others do care if there's a purpose. It might still leave you distraught if you don't care about the distinction, but being perplexed but it is odd indeed.

And you could even employ an environmental line in this, we are in essence using up resources for no reason other than the political ambitions of Boris and his supporters, and that should rankle

Happyhooker wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:04 pm

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:09 pm

Your best ever post, despite the ketchup

What ketchup?

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:21 am

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:03 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:56 pm Not just a softy, but in the same camp as Boris Johnson taking the view they're going the killed whatever and there isn't a distinction between doing so for food supply and simply culling them. For myself I'd be more concerned about the being in the same camp as Boris rather than the softy label

Nope.

I'm in the camp where I would prefer that pigs weren't slaughtered at all. I don't care if it is food or culling - it is all horrific in my eyes.

I can't do the mental gymnastics to be OK with one slaughter and not the other. The pig doesn't feel a sense of satisfaction that their 'sacrifice' is for the good of others. The pig just gets to feel fear, terror and pain - and ultimately dies years before their life would normally end.

You may not care if there's a purpose, but it shouldn't perplex you others do care if there's a purpose. It might still leave you distraught if you don't care about the distinction, but being perplexed but it is odd indeed.

And you could even employ an environmental line in this, we are in essence using up resources for no reason other than the political ambitions of Boris and his supporters, and that should rankle

Whatever your position - economic, environmental, animal welfare, etc - this culling of pigs is just wrong. However the bigger picture is that it shows the current Gov doesn't give a shit about the farming community and having convinced them to vote for Brexit is now happy to discard them and let them suffer. Whilst I get all the stuff about farming being heavily subsidised and in many cases bad for the environment this is not the way to deal with the problem. Boris's trying to take the piss about the culling during a number of interviews afterwards just makes the whole thing even more distasteful.

Boris Johnson would definitely be a Sarries fan.

Gumboot wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:53 am

Happyhooker wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:04 pm

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:09 pm

Your best ever post, despite the ketchup

What ketchup?

Well now you come to mention and having seen the enlarged image!!!

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:48 pm

Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:13 am
I am sitting here perplexed by the notion that a lot of people are 'outraged' that these poor piglets are being culled - yet have no issue with pigs being slaughtered on a daily basis. I would imagine that the death is pretty similar from the pigs POV anyway - regardless where its corpse ends up.

Slaughter for the purpose of providing food is simply different to slaughter so we don't have to pay to feed them. It's a waste, an upsetting one, and it damages many farms economically. That the pigs die either way isn't the whole of it.

Farmers do not usually slaughter their stock, especially on any kind of mass scale. Most livestock farmers will be unsentimental about putting a bullet in the odd animal, but I know a few, including my late father in law, who will not even do that. It is not a conversation I have ever had, but no farmer I know is geared for mass humane slaughter so goodness knows how they even go about it.

If you are a livestock farmer then it's unlikely you will form close bonds with your animals*.








* Unless you're a Welsh sheep farmer.

SaintK wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:22 am

Gumboot wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:53 am

Happyhooker wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:04 pm

Your best ever post, despite the ketchup

What ketchup?

Well now you come to mention and having seen the enlarged image!!!

There were suspicious red tinges on my phone. Apologies, if there is no ketchup it's his best pist ever by a country mile.

Happyhooker wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:16 am There were suspicious red tinges on my phone. Apologies, if there is no ketchup it's his best pist ever by a country mile.

The joke died the first time you posted it.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:15 am Also is that bread toasted? That might be worse than the ketchup if so

It borders on a hate crime.

Gentlemen, gentlemen - I'm sure this bacon fixation is making our vegan and veggie friends uncomfortable enough to steer clear of this thread. Please keep it up...

Anyone else's energy companies going bust?

I was with Igloo energy (I aggressively shop around) but as they went best I am now back with Eon who I had a long and acrimonious dealings with for ages.

Hal Jordan wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:25 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:15 am Also is that bread toasted? That might be worse than the ketchup if so

It borders on a hate crime.

Indeed. There's a place for toast of course, even with bacon in a club sandwich or BLT if toasted on one side, but not with a bacon sandwich, that way lies madness