NPR

24-27 England
FT

Great first half, second a bit of a mess.

Well deserved score for Italy, & means they out scored England 3 tries to 2 !

Which says a great deal about England attack.

England dogshit, Steward and Daly both empty shirts. Ireland are going to absolutely batter them.

Just let Fin take a shot at the posts, we weren't going to get a try bonus point anyway.

It's going to be a long 6N. Unlucky Italy

Was Dingwall actually playing?

ASMO wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:11 pm Was Dingwall actually playing?

Apart from one cracking pass he didn't seem to get into the game at all.

Gonna be a shit 4 years isnt it lol

Slightly mitigated if thats 2023 6Ns Italy not RWC 2023 Italy.

Saw a bit from Underhill, not going to do ruck marks, but without doing them, I'm always reluctant to pick out forwards.

Daly, please can he be gone, so many better options, or equal and younger options.

Didn't see a huge amount from Dingwall, which may not be too much of a bad thing.

Margin__Walker wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:10 pm It's going to be a long 6N. Unlucky Italy

Not really unlucky, just a bit too shit in the second half
Some good things for Quesada to build on though

ASMO wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:10 pm England dogshit, Steward and Daly both empty shirts. Ireland are going to absolutely batter them.

Steward did fine, carried well in traffic, put in some huge hits, kicked well and dominated in the air. Daly was poor, Underhill anonymous, Dingwall a revolving door in defence, and Chessum was some way off his usual standard.

England spared blushes by the poach. He didn’t arrive by dinghy.

Raggs wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:15 pm Saw a bit from Underhill, not going to do ruck marks, but without doing them, I'm always reluctant to pick out forwards.

Daly, please can he be gone, so many better options, or equal and younger options.

Didn't see a huge amount from Dingwall, which may not be too much of a bad thing.

ESPN has Dingwall as 9/5 in defence and 3m from 2 carries. A few nice passes though.

Ymx wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:18 pm England spared blushes by the poach. He didn’t arrive by dinghy.

Should be sent to Rwanda for that stupid fucking barnet

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:18 pm

ASMO wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:10 pm England dogshit, Steward and Daly both empty shirts. Ireland are going to absolutely batter them.

Steward did fine, carried well in traffic, put in some huge hits, kicked well and dominated in the air. Daly was poor, Underhill anonymous, Dingwall a revolving door in defence, and Chessum was some way off his usual standard.

Have to absolutely disagree with you that, watch him for the second and last try, absolutely nowhere.

Ymx wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:18 pm England spared blushes by the poach. He didn’t arrive by dinghy.

Which poach is that

ASMO wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:23 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:18 pm

ASMO wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:10 pm England dogshit, Steward and Daly both empty shirts. Ireland are going to absolutely batter them.

Steward did fine, carried well in traffic, put in some huge hits, kicked well and dominated in the air. Daly was poor, Underhill anonymous, Dingwall a revolving door in defence, and Chessum was some way off his usual standard.

Have to absolutely disagree with you that, watch him for the second and last try, absolutely nowhere.

You're going over the top again. Steward was a mixed bag, not an empty shirt. Defensively caught out of position a few times, but good under the high ball and with ball in hand.

Itoje was England’s best. Steward was ok.

Sandstorm wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:36 pm Itoje was England’s best. Steward was ok.

Thought Steward was okish. Good to see the 3 youngsters get some game time
And the man who nobody knows named MoM

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:18 pm

ASMO wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:10 pm England dogshit, Steward and Daly both empty shirts. Ireland are going to absolutely batter them.

Steward did fine, carried well in traffic, put in some huge hits, kicked well and dominated in the air. Daly was poor, Underhill anonymous, Dingwall a revolving door in defence, and Chessum was some way off his usual standard.

Not sure why underhill was selected. Steward is fine if balanced with pace but not with a has been like daly.

There was some dogshit on show but I’m not down, a lot of young players showed up, they need time and patience.

sefton wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:47 pm There was some dogshit on show but I’m not down, a lot of young players showed up, they need time and patience.

Agreed. Freeman looked good. So too roots.

Could really use a heavy carrier somewhere else.

Ultimately though, I feel some empathy for the team that lost their starting fly half and 12, then had an in/out position on 9 too all witching a fortnight of starting their first game.

Stuff that’s manageable when there’s an established team, but must be a right pain in the bumhole if you’re trying to start a new team.

Random1 wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:13 pm

sefton wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:47 pm There was some dogshit on show but I’m not down, a lot of young players showed up, they need time and patience.

Agreed. Freeman looked good. So too roots.

Could really use a heavy carrier somewhere else.

Ultimately though, I feel some empathy for the team that lost their starting fly half and 12, then had an in/out position on 9 too all witching a fortnight of starting their first game.

Stuff that’s manageable when there’s an established team, but must be a right pain in the bumhole if you’re trying to start a new team.

Giving that is pretty generous. I haven't seen anything to indicate anyone but Ford was intended to be the starting fly half.

Freeman at 13 instead of Slade, Roebuck to the wing would be a net positive for additional carrying in the backs. Feyi-Waboso to wing instead of that useless twat Daly.

As much as I like to be a downer on Slade, he did a lot of good work today with ball in hand and I'd rather he played 12 if that's what we can expect from Dingwall. But yes, would be good to see Freeman at 13 with a form winger outside.

I'm reluctant to bin players off after 1 cap. Freeman himself didn't have the most auspicious first couple of caps, some players just need a little run to get them up to speed.

Slade might have done alright, but I don't think he's a good partner for Dingwall. Slade needs a carrier inside him, Dingwall needs a carrier or strike runner outside him. If we're set on using him it would probably help bed him in having a clubmate outside who he's played in a parnetship with.

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:13 pm I'm reluctant to bin players off after 1 cap. Freeman himself didn't have the most auspicious first couple of caps, some players just need a little run to get them up to speed.

Slade might have done alright, but I don't think he's a good partner for Dingwall. Slade needs a carrier inside him, Dingwall needs a carrier or strike runner outside him. If we're set on using him it would probably help bed him in having a clubmate outside who he's played in a parnetship with.

Does Slade need that? He didn't today - made good yards and was threatening most times he got the ball. Dingwall is only there because of multiple injuries, after all

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:22 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:13 pm I'm reluctant to bin players off after 1 cap. Freeman himself didn't have the most auspicious first couple of caps, some players just need a little run to get them up to speed.

Slade might have done alright, but I don't think he's a good partner for Dingwall. Slade needs a carrier inside him, Dingwall needs a carrier or strike runner outside him. If we're set on using him it would probably help bed him in having a clubmate outside who he's played in a parnetship with.

Does Slade need that? He didn't today - made good yards and was threatening most times he got the ball. Dingwall is only there because of multiple injuries, after all

He carried about as effectively as he ever has, but if he's going to make a break and not have to take contact, he generally needs someone clearing room for him. He's not quick enough to turn a half break in to a full one or take a gap as clean break on its own like Marchant or Joseph were. Slade's best England games generally came outside Tuilagi.

We need someone at 12, for now it probably has to Dingwall. There's a reason Exeter never really push Slade there even this season when Devoto was out and Hendrickson moved on.

I don't think Slade is a good enough defender at 13 at Trst level. Unlike, say, JJ or Marchant, you never feel he's marshaling his guy, and you never feel he has the pace to cover if it goes tits up.

I noticed Slade was lining up at inside centre for part of the second half- haven’t seen the TV rerun to confirm whether it was throughout or just a couple of occasions (both in attack and defence).

Take on the game:
Italy I think have answered the question of which is the real Italy, 6N or RWC. All most of us have asked of them is for games like that. Their ambition and pace in attack is excellent and their pack competed pretty well.

England? Definitely showed much more ambition in attack. I liked our running lines and some of the moves we were running. It’s all too slow still - Mitchell is at the ruck and it takes us a good few seconds to present it. This surely can be coached out of them.

George showed maturity as captain. At 17-8 in a game you expect to win it’s easy to chase the game and end up giving Italy easy wins in defence. Chipping away at them was exactly the right call.

Freeman was good, Dingwall was not, Roots was an impressive hard bastard worth picking.

Our defensive system still leaves massive gaps on the wing. Papers suggest it’s teething problems of a blitz defence but we’ll see.

So yes England were shite but Italy at home can be an awkward proposition, especially in the first game.

Uncle fester wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:18 am So yes England were shite but Italy at home can be an awkward proposition, especially in the first game.

Didnt think they were too shite but lots to work on

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:43 am Take on the game:
Italy I think have answered the question of which is the real Italy, 6N or RWC. All most of us have asked of them is for games like that. Their ambition and pace in attack is excellent and their pack competed pretty well.

England? Definitely showed much more ambition in attack. I liked our running lines and some of the moves we were running. It’s all too slow still - Mitchell is at the ruck and it takes us a good few seconds to present it. This surely can be coached out of them.

George showed maturity as captain. At 17-8 in a game you expect to win it’s easy to chase the game and end up giving Italy easy wins in defence. Chipping away at them was exactly the right call.

Freeman was good, Dingwall was not, Roots was an impressive hard bastard worth picking.

Our defensive system still leaves massive gaps on the wing. Papers suggest it’s teething problems of a blitz defence but we’ll see.

We got sprung quite a few times, makes you wonder/worry what would have happened had Capuozzo been fit. Italy were prepared to have a go and deservedly made good yards out wide, but it seemed a bit easy to get overlaps.