The Rugby Championship

[Dan54]

Nah, criticising the officiating is sometimes necessary. The officiating this RC has been shit across the board. There was some really fucked up calls In most of the games. If WR is made to believe this level of officiating is acceptable, I fear we're going to have a pretty crap WC.

You didn't read my post well. Criticism after a loss is a no go. Sound like sour grapes, bad loser mentality. Most of these cockroach supporters never criticise after a win.
The ref bashers forgot the actual play and kak in their pants after the ref make a mistake. Why don't they critise their own players not adopting to the refs? They bokken get paid to study them and play to their officiating. Richie McCaw was the example of a captain communication with the refs in a professional manner.

Aki nearly bliksem the ref on Saturday after his red card. Do you want to see this soccer behaviour of players shouting at officials? White another example. It's a cancer in the modern game.

Excellent post!!!

[OomStruisbaai]

Nah, criticising the officiating is sometimes necessary. The officiating this RC has been shit across the board. There was some really fucked up calls In most of the games. If WR is made to believe this level of officiating is acceptable, I fear we're going to have a pretty crap WC.

You didn't read my post well. Criticism after a loss is a no go. Sound like sour grapes, bad loser mentality. Most of these cockroach supporters never criticise after a win.
The ref bashers forgot the actual play and kak in their pants after the ref make a mistake. Why don't they critise their own players not adopting to the refs? They bokken get paid to study them and play to their officiating. Richie McCaw was the example of a captain communication with the refs in a professional manner.

Aki nearly bliksem the ref on Saturday after his red card. Do you want to see this soccer behaviour of players shouting at officials? White another example. It's a cancer in the modern game.

Good post, Oom.

I like to discuss the calls made during a game afterwards because you can really learn something that way. Win or lose, it's interesting and some games just demand a discussion for one reason or another... but that's different to just slagging the ref off. The Raynal decision in Melbourne is a great example... drill down into it and it's a good call, even if it's unusual. Brave ref... but he's been crucified for it.

My sons are good hockey players. I struggled to get use the players shouting on the umpires every vokken time. The youngest explanations was that in hockey the umpires are suppose to explain the ruling to the player. He coach and play in the UK while a gap student. In the UK the coaches of both teams will go on the field of the kids and explain the rulings and coaching even the opposition players.

I can't imagine this in South Africa

[average joe]

Ref bashing and bickering is not what I meant with my post. The Raynal call was fair, it was clear what Foley was doing. He even stopped the clock to make his intentions clear and Foley still persisted. Raynal made other mistakes though.

I would welcome ref's blowing teams for bickering and marching them back 10 until they learn.

[assfly]

It sounds like you hate refs AJ and want to attack them.

[Sards]

The great thing about the URC is that the refs are really tested at a high level and we don't have the same refs officiating for the same teams every game. Makes it a lot more fair.

[Chilli]

The Refs are very well paid professional's.
While I don't condon the reaction of some players, the refs must be held accountable and should be criticized.

[Guy Smiley]

The Refs are very well paid professional's.
While I don't condon the reaction of some players, the refs must be held accountable and should be criticized.

By who?

Armchair 'fans' with little knowledge of

i) the Laws applicable

ii) accurate information / vision of whatever incident they criticise

iii) the ability to be calm, reasonable and unemotional

[Gumboot]

Yes, well, in a perfect world only those with the appropriate qualifications would be eligible to voice an opinion...

FWIW, I think criticising refereeing mistakes is absolutely fine. A crowd will quickly and loudly make their thoughts known if a ref misses an obvious forward pass or knock on, as will all the armchair critics watching on TV. Human nature, innit. As human as making honest mistakes, which we happily criticise the players and coaches for all the time.

But feral criticism, with idiotic allegations of favouritism or even blatant cheating, and calls for recriminations against "offending" refs, is well out of order and has no place in the game...imho.

[Ymx]

What gumboot said.

[OomStruisbaai]

You can criticize as much as you like. Fact is refs are humans and make mistakes all the time. Being human every single ref have his own way of referring. Basically two types
1. Let the game flow. Miss mistakes.
2 Strict and blow every mistake. Stop start all the time.

HOWEVER TMO's making mistakes is unforgiving. They have time and slomo to get it right.


Still never criticise if your team lost. Kak habit, sour loser.

[Guy Smiley]

Yes, well, in a perfect world only those with the appropriate qualifications would be eligible to voice an opinion...

FWIW, I think criticising refereeing mistakes is absolutely fine. A crowd will quickly and loudly make their thoughts known if a ref misses an obvious forward pass or knock on, as will all the armchair critics watching on TV. Human nature, innit. As human as making honest mistakes, which we happily criticise the players and coaches for all the time.

But feral criticism, with idiotic allegations of favouritism or even blatant cheating, and calls for recriminations against "offending" refs, is well out of order and has no place in the game...imho.

Fair call... I think perhaps I could rephrase my argument a little and take aim at what I would call institutionalised criticism... the attacks on refs and decisions carried out through and with the media. That goes against what we like to call the spirit of the game and I think it needs to be stamped out.

Hand in hand with that though, it would be good to see some sort of platform adopted by WR to transparently explain the decisions made and the process which leads to and follows key refereeing points. Too much is left to local commentary... and in the case of people like Justin Marshall, Tim Horan and a host of other ex players, that commentary is disappointingly poorly informed and overly emotional a lot of the time.

[Dan54]

We have to rember also one of criticisms of refs we hear an awful lot, is they don't let game flow, so basically blow all the opposition's mistakes, but let the team we support have a fair bit of leeway!

[Chilli]

The Refs are very well paid professional's.
While I don't condon the reaction of some players, the refs must be held accountable and should be criticized.

By who?

Armchair 'fans' with little knowledge of

i) the Laws applicable

ii) accurate information / vision of whatever incident they criticise

iii) the ability to be calm, reasonable and unemotional

Are you referring to the same fans who criticism players even though they have little knowledge of the same?

I'm not condoning ref bashing, but if a ref gets it wrong or makes balls up, we are certainly allowed to point it out.

[OomStruisbaai]

We have to rember also one of criticisms of refs we hear an awful lot, is they don't let game flow, so basically blow all the opposition's mistakes, but let the team we support have a fair bit of leeway!

Don't like to generalized but the NZ and Saffer refs tend to do this. Aussie refs just don't get this. The NH refs are strict. Then the English 2 nd language barrier with Italian and French refs.

When will the supporters realize that you can only control the controllable and that's not the Referee.
Study the ref and play according his rulings. Don't argue with the ref, it's going to cost your team.

[Guy Smiley]

https://www.lefigaro.fr/sports/rugby/ma ... e-20220926

Mathieu Raynal on his refereeing decision during Australia-All Blacks: "I assume".

INTERVIEW - Two weeks ago, the French referee penalised the Wallabies opener seconds before the end of the Test against New Zealand for stalling. The decision that led to the All Blacks' win on the line provoked the fury of the Australian players and media.

Elected by his peers, but also by the players and coaches of the Top 14, as the best referee of the 2021-2022 season on Monday night during the Night of Rugby, Mathieu Raynal returned for the first time to his controversial decision during the Australia-New Zealand match a fortnight ago.

Le Figaro: Do you accept the decision that changed the fate of the first Test between Australia and New Zealand? Mathieu Raynal: Yes, I always assume what I do. I take responsibility for this decision 100%. I had the necessary reasons to make it. I know that it is a decision that makes people talk, that makes a lot of noise, but I try to free myself from this pressure to do what I think is right. This is the heart of my job. And sometimes it creates tensions, frustrations and controversies, but I assume what I do.

You have only applied Rule 20... Yes, that's the rule. (Smiles) But in rugby, it's complicated. There is the rule, the spirit of the rule. You can always argue in rugby. Things are never black and white but often grey.

It was a brave decision at that point in the game... It's happening fast but I'm still lucid. When I take this decision, it's because I have reasons to take it. In this case, I warned a player (Australian opener Bernard Foley) five times that he had to kick the ball into touch, including two official warnings. He has to listen to me. I was very clear. At some point I couldn't do anything else. I didn't make the decision, the player forced me to make it. That's different. I had no choice. When I start the process, I have to go through with it. But it's not brave or difficult. It is my job. I have full confidence in the process I have followed.

Do you think many referees would have taken it? I don't know. I don't follow others. I do what I think is right on the pitch and then I take it on. But it is not my role to tell others what to do. "My job stops once I leave the field. When the decision is discussed, it's not a debate I want to get into.

This has earned you some criticism but also a lot of support... To be honest, I deleted the newspaper and social network applications. I only kept Candy Crush and the time to preserve myself, not to follow everything that was going on (laughs). I know what it creates and I wanted to save myself from it. I wanted to concentrate on the second test between the two teams (where he was a linesman) and that was the best thing to do. What happens afterwards is none of my business. My job stops once I leave the field. When the decision is discussed, it's not a debate I want to get into.

Have you discussed this with Australia coach Dave Rennie? After the second Test last Saturday in Auckland, he came to see me in the dressing room to talk to me on behalf of himself and Australia. I really appreciated that. We had a very sincere and honest discussion after the pressure of the game had died down. Our relationship is absolutely normal. He told me that he was satisfied with the refereeing for the whole match, but obviously not with the last decision. Which I can understand because I don't have the truth. But I can guarantee you that we had a calm and normal discussion.

[average joe]

You can criticize as much as you like. Fact is refs are humans and make mistakes all the time. Being human every single ref have his own way of referring. Basically two types
1. Let the game flow. Miss mistakes.
2 Strict and blow every mistake. Stop start all the time.

HOWEVER TMO's making mistakes is unforgiving. They have time and slomo to get it right.


Still never criticise if your team lost. Kak habit, sour loser.

The fact that refs are human and prone to mistakes is exactly the reason why we should have the right to point out their mistakes. People should learn from their mistakes and not just brush it of as nothing. You have people who "kak op jou kop" If you fuckup In any other profession on this planet. Why should refs have it any different?

1. Rugby is a game with Law's. What's the whole point if you just chuck the law book out the window for the sake of flow? They might as well just play touchies then.

Who ever decided that rugby is a game that should flow all the time anyways? The whole game is designed as a stop start affair. We have lineouts, scrums, mauls, dropouts, kick-off's, try's, kicking for goal, kicking for touch, you name it, it's all about stopping and restarting.

2. Just officiate as per the law's of the game. It will be a bit of a mess in the beginning but will get better as soon as the players and coaches realise they cant get away with cynical play.

Exactly, we have four officials with all the technology at their disposal. There should be no excuse. In saying that, players and coaches should never have the right to disrespect a ref's authority. His call, whether it's right or wrong stands on pitch. After the game he should answer to his boss for his fuckups though, and learn from them. Just like players, he should strive to improve on his shitness.

[Gumboot]

All Blacks second-five Quinn Tupaea is in doubt for next year's Rugby World Cup, with further scans revealing more damage to his anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) in his left knee.

Tupaea, 23, also ruptured his medial collateral ligament (MCL), after Wallabies lock Darcy Swain attacked his planted leg in their Bledisloe Cup victory at Melbourne this month.

The Chiefs midfielder has been ruled out of action for nine months and will miss next season's Super Rugby campaign, with his World Cup ambitions most likely dashed.

And yet his assailant gets a mere 6-game suspension. Fucking pathetic.

[Kiwias]

Did anyone see Bundee Aki's reaction to getting a red card? I hope he is cited for it.

[Gumboot]

Agreed, once he's shown the card that's that. Continuing to challenge the ref is out of order.

[Guy Smiley]

Agreed, once he's shown the card that's that. Continuing to challenge the ref is out of order.

Any player going on like that is a bloody idiot... I'd be happy to see a separate sanction applied for that performance.

[Dan54]

You can criticize as much as you like. Fact is refs are humans and make mistakes all the time. Being human every single ref have his own way of referring. Basically two types
1. Let the game flow. Miss mistakes.
2 Strict and blow every mistake. Stop start all the time.

HOWEVER TMO's making mistakes is unforgiving. They have time and slomo to get it right.


Still never criticise if your team lost. Kak habit, sour loser.

The fact that refs are human and prone to mistakes is exactly the reason why we should have the right to point out their mistakes. People should learn from their mistakes and not just brush it of as nothing. You have people who "kak op jou kop" If you fuckup In any other profession on this planet. Why should refs have it any different?

1. Rugby is a game with Law's. What's the whole point if you just chuck the law book out the window for the sake of flow? They might as well just play touchies then.

Who ever decided that rugby is a game that should flow all the time anyways? The whole game is designed as a stop start affair. We have lineouts, scrums, mauls, dropouts, kick-off's, try's, kicking for goal, kicking for touch, you name it, it's all about stopping and restarting.

2. Just officiate as per the law's of the game. It will be a bit of a mess in the beginning but will get better as soon as the players and coaches realise they cant get away with cynical play.

Exactly, we have four officials with all the technology at their disposal. There should be no excuse. In saying that, players and coaches should never have the right to disrespect a ref's authority. His call, whether it's right or wrong stands on pitch. After the game he should answer to his boss for his fuckups though, and learn from them. Just like players, he should strive to improve on his shitness.

Amen Joe, does anyone remember the ref is supposedy the sole adjucator of the laws? We get the continual moans from commentators who feed the viewers who get their rugby knowledge from watching tv, when it suits them.

[Ymx]

Dan has a point.

Commentary is now almost click bait. They never used to openly disagree with ref decisions and often with wrong interpretations of what’s going on. That stirs the audience up hugely!

[Tichtheid]

Dan has a point.

Commentary is now almost click bait. They never used to openly disagree with ref decisions and often with wrong interpretations of what’s going on. That stirs the audience up hugely!

This is true, but sports commentary isn't happening in isolation, it reflects the way we all are now, shouting at other via keyboards, but never really reading/listening to what the other person is saying.

Having said that, I do miss the likes of Bill McLaren and Nigel Starmer-Smith - we never got SH comms here, but I guess there must be equivalents.

I think Andrew Cotter is in that league.

[FalseBayFC]

You can criticize as much as you like. Fact is refs are humans and make mistakes all the time. Being human every single ref have his own way of referring. Basically two types
1. Let the game flow. Miss mistakes.
2 Strict and blow every mistake. Stop start all the time.

HOWEVER TMO's making mistakes is unforgiving. They have time and slomo to get it right.


Still never criticise if your team lost. Kak habit, sour loser.

The fact that refs are human and prone to mistakes is exactly the reason why we should have the right to point out their mistakes. People should learn from their mistakes and not just brush it of as nothing. You have people who "kak op jou kop" If you fuckup In any other profession on this planet. Why should refs have it any different?

1. Rugby is a game with Law's. What's the whole point if you just chuck the law book out the window for the sake of flow? They might as well just play touchies then.

Who ever decided that rugby is a game that should flow all the time anyways? The whole game is designed as a stop start affair. We have lineouts, scrums, mauls, dropouts, kick-off's, try's, kicking for goal, kicking for touch, you name it, it's all about stopping and restarting.

2. Just officiate as per the law's of the game. It will be a bit of a mess in the beginning but will get better as soon as the players and coaches realise they cant get away with cynical play.

Exactly, we have four officials with all the technology at their disposal. There should be no excuse. In saying that, players and coaches should never have the right to disrespect a ref's authority. His call, whether it's right or wrong stands on pitch. After the game he should answer to his boss for his fuckups though, and learn from them. Just like players, he should strive to improve on his shitness.

Amen Joe, does anyone remember the ref is supposedy the sole adjucator of the laws? We get the continual moans from commentators who feed the viewers who get their rugby knowledge from watching tv, when it suits them.

Agreed. Add in the fact that the awareness of concussion implications and safety have bought about an enormous challenge to the sport. We're in the middle of a sea change in the sport and friction and change will be a given. I also think that rugby will remain a relatively niche sport in global terms. The emphasis should be on consolidating and securing the game in its current heartlands. Administrators need to concentrate on building sustainability and not over reaching to try and grow the game.

[Kiwias]

Agreed, once he's shown the card that's that. Continuing to challenge the ref is out of order.

Any player going on like that is a bloody idiot... I'd be happy to see a separate sanction applied for that performance.

Yep, he should be cited for both the tackle and his reaction. He makes Nick White look genuinely restrained.

[OomStruisbaai]

Did anyone see Bundee Aki's reaction to getting a red card? I hope he is cited for it.

I watched it live. Dik swak. I asked myself where did he start playing rugby? In South Africa rugby kids get bliksemed for this.

[Kiwias]

Did anyone see Bundee Aki's reaction to getting a red card? I hope he is cited for it.

I watched it live. Dik swak. I asked myself where did he start playing rugby? In South Africa rugby kids get bliksemed for this.

He was an angel when playing in the home of the spiritual guardians but the swarm have totally corrupted him since he headed north.

[OomStruisbaai]

The fact that refs are human and prone to mistakes is exactly the reason why we should have the right to point out their mistakes. People should learn from their mistakes and not just brush it of as nothing. You have people who "kak op jou kop" If you fuckup In any other profession on this planet. Why should refs have it any different?

1. Rugby is a game with Law's. What's the whole point if you just chuck the law book out the window for the sake of flow? They might as well just play touchies then.

Who ever decided that rugby is a game that should flow all the time anyways? The whole game is designed as a stop start affair. We have lineouts, scrums, mauls, dropouts, kick-off's, try's, kicking for goal, kicking for touch, you name it, it's all about stopping and restarting.

2. Just officiate as per the law's of the game. It will be a bit of a mess in the beginning but will get better as soon as the players and coaches realise they cant get away with cynical play.

Exactly, we have four officials with all the technology at their disposal. There should be no excuse. In saying that, players and coaches should never have the right to disrespect a ref's authority. His call, whether it's right or wrong stands on pitch. After the game he should answer to his boss for his fuckups though, and learn from them. Just like players, he should strive to improve on his shitness.

Amen Joe, does anyone remember the ref is supposedy the sole adjucator of the laws? We get the continual moans from commentators who feed the viewers who get their rugby knowledge from watching tv, when it suits them.

Agreed. Add in the fact that the awareness of concussion implications and safety have bought about an enormous challenge to the sport. We're in the middle of a sea change in the sport and friction and change will be a given. I also think that rugby will remain a relatively niche sport in global terms. The emphasis should be on consolidating and securing the game in its current heartlands. Administrators need to concentrate on building sustainability and not over reaching to try and grow the game.

8 weeks

Fixtures Aki is unavailable for:

Vodacom Bulls vs Connacht Rugby, 30 September, URC

Connacht Rugby vs Munster, 7 October, URC

Connacht Rugby vs Leinster, 14 October, URC

Connacht Rugby vs Scarlets, 21 October, URC

Ospreys vs Connacht Rugby, 29 October, URC

Ireland vs South Africa, 5 November, Autumn Nations Series

Ireland vs Fiji, 12 November, Autumn Nations Series

Ireland vs Australia, 19 November, Autumn Nations Series (substituted if the player successfully completes the head-contact process coaching intervention).

[Enzedder]

Boks Fans.jpg (152.39 KiB) Viewed 1497 times

[OomStruisbaai]

Humbling stuff from Oom Enz. Post in the wrong place.

Everything should be black with our load shedding.

[LoveOfTheGame]

Boks Fans.jpg

Yes, the AB's had an incredible year. I bet you must be many proud of all the eh records bro.

[convoluted]

Amidst all the wailing, here is Charles Richardson of The Telegraph UK

..."The question now, of course, is what next? Raynal has laid down the gauntlet to referees everywhere and, who knows, fly-halves might now think twice about unnecessarily running down the clock. Perhaps Raynal has just inadvertently saved rugby as a spectator sport? What a thought.

"The onus is now on international referees to follow Raynal's lead and bravely follow the Frenchman's intrepidness and be consistent. And not just with penalties; but with scrums, line-outs, water breaks, and shots at goal."

Amen cubed.
We only beat the Boks at Ellis Park because they were out on their feet in the last 10 mins because that referee refused to allow the Boks their usual dawdle to lineouts and scrums.

OK, Foster (and Hansen toward the end of his tenure) made monumental blunders but was it the deliberate time-wasting employed by other teams in order to nullify the All Blacks' fast game which was the key factor sparking NZ's decline over that period?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/ ... 122a579c85

[Guy Smiley]

That's a convoluted way of saying they just didn't keep up with where the game was going.

[convoluted]

^^^ So you are saying NZ blundered by not reading the global trend and adopting a similar glacial behemoth style and a 6-2 bench split ?? And with us doing the same thing, the current 2-hour test game-time broadcast will extend to about 2 and a quarter hours.

Or are you just pissed off that you yourself failed to recognize and pontificate on this trend as being a major factor in our decline?

[Guy Smiley]

Nah…

I don’t think deliberate time wasting led to the demise of the ABs.

That’s your rancid little baby.

I’ve said for years that the obstinate refusal to commit bodies to the breakdown was our downfall. The belief we owned the right to spin it wide and run it… the hubris and arrogance underlying that is NZ rugby’s Achilles heel.

Time wasting by others didn’t do the ABs in. It’s an interesting excuse, though. Same way pancakes can be interesting.

[Grandpa]

I’ve said for years that the obstinate refusal to commit bodies to the breakdown was our downfall. The belief we owned the right to spin it wide and run it… the hubris and arrogance underlying that is NZ rugby’s Achilles heel.

This... it seemed to start happening from 2017 onwards... not only lack of numbers but also technique at the breakdown.. making every player involved, more efficient at the breakdown. Since Ryan joined there has been a pick-up in this area... but until they play Ireland/England/France, we won't know if they are still deficient at the ruck....

I still don't like Foster getting any credit for it though...

[JM2K6]

Did anyone see Bundee Aki's reaction to getting a red card? I hope he is cited for it.

What's fascinating to me here is that both Aki and the commentators don't understand the core facts here: Aki was too late to perform a clearout.

Aki screams because he doesn't understand "where he's supposed to be". To him, there's a player over the ball and his head is the closest point. To him, the only option to get him off the ball before it's stolen is this mad flying spear into the opponent's head. The commentators say he has to get lower.

No. It's nothing to do with his height. It has everything to do with the fact that he was too far away and that ball was lost, and we coach players to smash each other regardless. The problem wasn't his body height. He should've had just one option there - accept that the ball was lost and the only legal way to do anything would be to grapple with the opponent. But that sort of thinking gets you dropped.

Blasting people at the ruck is bullshit. It leads to injuries and by its very nature encourages players to ignore safety - their own and the opposition's - in favour of high impact regardless of the situation.

[Guy Smiley]

Foster and Hansen cooked the idea up together…. Which is why they wanted to play BB and DMac in the same backline.

Ryan, along with Razor at the Saders have shown how to consistently win playing accountable rugby, earning the right to go wide.

[Grandpa]

Foster and Hansen cooked the idea up together…. Which is why they wanted to play BB and DMac in the same backline.

Ryan, along with Razor at the Saders have shown how to consistently win playing accountable rugby, earning the right to go wide.

And now Foster has headhunted Ryan and will take all the credit himself if things improve...

That NZ Rugby let Foster sack his own assistants and then hire Razor's right hand man is just beyond the pale... and is what makes it so hard to support this team currently...

[OomStruisbaai]

Will there be TRC next year?