The Rugby Championship

Where goats go to escape
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fishfoodie
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JM2K6 wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:44 pm
Kiwias wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:51 am Did anyone see Bundee Aki's reaction to getting a red card? I hope he is cited for it.

What's fascinating to me here is that both Aki and the commentators don't understand the core facts here: Aki was too late to perform a clearout.

Aki screams because he doesn't understand "where he's supposed to be". To him, there's a player over the ball and his head is the closest point. To him, the only option to get him off the ball before it's stolen is this mad flying spear into the opponent's head. The commentators say he has to get lower.

No. It's nothing to do with his height. It has everything to do with the fact that he was too far away and that ball was lost, and we coach players to smash each other regardless. The problem wasn't his body height. He should've had just one option there - accept that the ball was lost and the only legal way to do anything would be to grapple with the opponent. But that sort of thinking gets you dropped.

Blasting people at the ruck is bullshit. It leads to injuries and by its very nature encourages players to ignore safety - their own and the opposition's - in favour of high impact regardless of the situation.

After a few days I think I can talk about this without throwing something, or kicking the Cat :mad:

My immediate reaction was to wonder if Aki was deliberately trying to get sent off, & just fancied a few days on the beach, because it was a stone cold RC, & a serious ban, & I was spitting feathers that a senior player, & one Connacht depend on, would be so utterly dense !

We love him for his passion, & intensity, & commitment; but the top two inches fail him on too many occasions; Provincially, & for the National side.

But, as I say, I've had a few days from hoping he came home in the Cargo hold; & I think the whole; "What was I Supposed to do ?", question, has to be addressed !!

If you put yourself in his shoes, & look at the clock; you can imagine yourself 2 seconds from contact, seeing a player going for the turnover, then within a second, the window closes, & all of a sudden you aren't making a tackle, or spoiling; you're making a cleanout & whether or not you get sent off, is down to how good his jackal is ?

In the matter of a second, you go from hero to zero, & you've very little control over it; because you're committed !

As you say; the clear out has just become too dangerous, & we just have to take the energy out of the collision, or have it so that once the defending player gets their hands on the ball legally, the ref calls, "Contest Won", & he gets the turnover, & a tap free kick to restart, but even that, in this case; the ref wouldn't have had time to make the call, & Aki to process it, & stop.
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Kiwias
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Guy Smiley wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:30 am Nah…

I don’t think deliberate time wasting led to the demise of the ABs.

That’s your rancid little baby.

I’ve said for years that the obstinate refusal to commit bodies to the breakdown was our downfall. The belief we owned the right to spin it wide and run it… the hubris and arrogance underlying that is NZ rugby’s Achilles heel.

Time wasting by others didn’t do the ABs in. It’s an interesting excuse, though. Same way pancakes can be interesting.
I've been watching highlights of the NZ U19 team playing in South Africa at the moment and they are definitely committing good numbers to the breakdown so perhaps coaches at this level have recognised the failures of the ABs over the last 3~4 years and are fixing this issue.
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Enzedder
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LoveOfTheGame wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:36 am
Enzedder wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:47 pmBoks Fans.jpg
Yes, the AB's had an incredible year. I bet you must be many proud of all the eh records bro.
Certainly proud of our finishing spot given our problems
I drink and I forget things.
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Grandpa
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Kiwias wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:29 am
Guy Smiley wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:30 am Nah…

I don’t think deliberate time wasting led to the demise of the ABs.

That’s your rancid little baby.

I’ve said for years that the obstinate refusal to commit bodies to the breakdown was our downfall. The belief we owned the right to spin it wide and run it… the hubris and arrogance underlying that is NZ rugby’s Achilles heel.

Time wasting by others didn’t do the ABs in. It’s an interesting excuse, though. Same way pancakes can be interesting.
I've been watching highlights of the NZ U19 team playing in South Africa at the moment and they are definitely committing good numbers to the breakdown so perhaps coaches at this level have recognised the failures of the ABs over the last 3~4 years and are fixing this issue.
Let's hope Foster is aware...
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Ymx
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I’d forgotten about the Coles Matera thing

Pablo Matera: Los Pumas star opens up on Dane Coles outburst

Argentina superstar Pablo Matera opened up on the incident between him and All Blacks Dane Coles after their round four clash in the Rugby Championship.

The All Blacks won the clash convincingly 53-3, avenging their defeat to Los Pumas only a week before. At the end of the game, Matera refused to shake hands with Coles and pushed the hooker aside to thank a different All Black player.

Not proud of the incident

Speaking on the What A Lad podcast, Matera admitted he was not proud of his actions towards Coles as he failed to set a good example for children watching the game.

“Yeah that was not something I’m not proud about, to be honest,” Matera admitted. “Because I know there’s a lot of young kids or young players watched the game and it’s not a good example.

“I’m one of the guys that says ‘the things that happens on the field stays on the field, that’s how it has to be always.
“But that day was a bit different to be honest, that day was a bit different.

“I think he came in when there was like ten minutes left and he just continued picking on me, in every ruck, in every scrum, saying something.

“To be honest, it really hurt me, some strong things, I don’t want to repeat it but I couldn’t understand why, because they were winning by 40 points, he just came on, I didn’t understand why he was with that attitude.

“I know he’s obviously a great player but I know he’s a great guy as well because some of his teammates spoke to me after the game and came and say ‘oh he’s a good guy’ I said ‘I’m sure he’s a good guy, I’m sure’ I just couldn’t understand why he kept picking on me.”

Felt disrespected

Matera spent last season with Crusaders in their Super Rugby Pacific winning season, playing a big role for Scott Robertson’s men. However, the Argentine revealed that Coles told him he does not belong here, which Matera found disrespectful.

“He said things that I’m sensitive about, like me being in New Zealand, ‘you don’t belong here’ and I was like if you knew how much effort for me and my family to be able to come to New Zealand you wouldn’t be saying these things.

“But that’s it, it won’t happen again even though I didn’t want to give the time to him because I can take the disrespectful… I shouldn’t have done it because the game is bigger than any player.”
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Ymx
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Coles is a knobhead.
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Guy Smiley
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Yeah, I read that story yesterday.

Coles is a grub, he can fuck off for all I care. Good playing days are behind him and no-one likes a shit talker.
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Guy Smiley
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I missed JMK's post about Bundee Aki earlier... coming around the same time I made a post from my phone on nightshift and I didn't scan back.

Have to say I agree, but doing so with an acceptance that something fundamental in rugby needs to change. Simply blowing in and trying to hurt players under the guise of using force to win possession will have to go... and where that leads will define the game or destroy it.

We need a new way of contesting the ball that doesn't reduce the game to something like a series of play the ball stop start hiccups like league.

Perhaps we allow one player to go off their feet, the tackler in bringing the tackled player to ground. Everyone else must remain on their feet and behind the offside line. How would that go?
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Grandpa
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Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:49 pm I missed JMK's post about Bundee Aki earlier... coming around the same time I made a post from my phone on nightshift and I didn't scan back.

Have to say I agree, but doing so with an acceptance that something fundamental in rugby needs to change. Simply blowing in and trying to hurt players under the guise of using force to win possession will have to go... and where that leads will define the game or destroy it.

We need a new way of contesting the ball that doesn't reduce the game to something like a series of play the ball stop start hiccups like league.

Perhaps we allow one player to go off their feet, the tackler in bringing the tackled player to ground. Everyone else must remain on their feet and behind the offside line. How would that go?
What's wrong with no hands in the ruck... ever? No more jackals...
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Guy Smiley
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The defenders are still going to try and win possession, and with no hands they're going to try and blast through and over the ball...

Aki Style
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Grandpa
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Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:38 pm The defenders are still going to try and win possession, and with no hands they're going to try and blast through and over the ball...

Aki Style
Really they are not allowed to go off their feet now.. but refs let them. If refs enforced "staying on your feet" properly it would stop happening?
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Guy Smiley
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Grandpa wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:55 pm
Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:38 pm The defenders are still going to try and win possession, and with no hands they're going to try and blast through and over the ball...

Aki Style
Really they are not allowed to go off their feet now.. but refs let them. If refs enforced "staying on your feet" properly it would stop happening?
Matthieu Raynal enforced a wasting time sanction recently and that went down a treat.... :lol:
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Grandpa
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Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:59 pm
Grandpa wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:55 pm
Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:38 pm The defenders are still going to try and win possession, and with no hands they're going to try and blast through and over the ball...

Aki Style
Really they are not allowed to go off their feet now.. but refs let them. If refs enforced "staying on your feet" properly it would stop happening?
Matthieu Raynal enforced a wasting time sanction recently and that went down a treat.... :lol:
He's on a roll... he may as well whistle that Elton John song... I'm still standing... for his next jaunt....
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Guy Smiley
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On a more serious note..

yeah. Bodies flying all over the shop at ruck time has been a problem for years that has been allowed to go unpunished and only become worse. It's bad enough when it's a 'legit' cleanout, with all the problems that presents, but you see guys barrelling straight past the ruck and taking guys out when they're not part of the ruck itself. I'd love to see a ref penalise a player for going off his feet, or for having his head positioned lower than his hips.

I'll see if I can find a link to it.... a major study has been published in recent days highlighting the disproportionate number of professional rugby players who develop concussion related trauma post career. It's scry high... and the day is fast approaching when Something Will Actually Have To Be Done instead of tut tutting and talk.
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Dan54
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To be fair on the Coles thing with Matera, I can see Matera's point when he says this

“He said things that I’m sensitive about, like me being in New Zealand, ‘you don’t belong here’ and I was like if you knew how much effort for me and my family to be able to come to New Zealand you wouldn’t be saying these things.

I mean look at all the effort the poor bugger had to go to to be in NZ, they had to live in Chch with all those whankers that support the Crusaders!! :lol: :lol:
And I mean they are the only poor buggers that have had to move to another country to play rugby. :shock: :shock: By christ I glad the poor bugger never played against Fitzy, Kearnsie, Gregan etc . Hey he was upset at end of the game , don't have a problem with that, but just say I was pissed off with him, don't pretend you had to suffer to play or anything.
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Guy Smiley
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I imagine you were quite lonely for a while after the asteroid hit, Dan.
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Grandpa
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Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:21 pm On a more serious note..

yeah. Bodies flying all over the shop at ruck time has been a problem for years that has been allowed to go unpunished and only become worse. It's bad enough when it's a 'legit' cleanout, with all the problems that presents, but you see guys barrelling straight past the ruck and taking guys out when they're not part of the ruck itself. I'd love to see a ref penalise a player for going off his feet, or for having his head positioned lower than his hips.

I'll see if I can find a link to it.... a major study has been published in recent days highlighting the disproportionate number of professional rugby players who develop concussion related trauma post career. It's scry high... and the day is fast approaching when Something Will Actually Have To Be Done instead of tut tutting and talk.
This study?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/int ... on-disease
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Guy Smiley
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That’s the one.

It’s not good.
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Grandpa
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It's hard to imagine that in 50 years time, rugby is anything like today's version...
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Certain Navigator
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Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:40 pm Yeah, I read that story yesterday.

Coles is a grub, he can fuck off for all I care. Good playing days are behind him and no-one likes a shit talker.
This is hardly news, but mouthing off on the field is not exactly crime of the century either. And doing-a-Pocock doesn't exactly put Matera in a good light either.
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Gumboot
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I really don't care if Coles is a nasty howwible sledger. It's not tiddlywinks and Matera's no angel. He should've just STFU.


Anyway, the ABs' EOYT squad and the "All Blacks" XV (spit!) squad are being named tomorrow. The top squad's pretty settled I guess, but I'm keen to see which youngsters have done enough in the NPC to score a spot in the Second XV squad, and which fringe test players are also selected in the Seconds to get more game time.
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OomStruisbaai
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Look like a single round like in 2019

Springboks got All Blacks away on 15 July, Pumas home to All Black 8 July , Boks and Wallabies away on 15 and 29 July.
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Grandpa
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Fixtures

Round 1

8 July 2023
Argentina v New Zealand
Estadio Malvinas Argentinas, Mendoza

8 July 2023
South Africa v Australia
Loftus Versfeld Stadium, Pretoria

Round 2

15 July 2023
New Zealand v South Africa
Eden Park, Auckland

15 July 2023
Australia v Argentina
CommBank Stadium, Sydney

Round 3

29 July 2023
Australia v New Zealand
Melbourne Cricket Ground, Melbourne

29 July 2023
South Africa v Argentina
TBA

NZ two away matches again. Same as in 2019. Australia two at home again.. same as 2019. We look after the Aussies don't we... :grin:
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OomStruisbaai
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Time to dust this one off. The Springboks will go in this rusted as he'll, but they'll need to start running against the Wallabies.
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Sards
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I honestly am worried about the RC.

Could be a wake up
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LoveOfTheGame
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Sards wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:14 am I honestly am worried about the RC.

Could be a wake up
You mean like any other year?
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Grandpa
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LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:44 am
Sards wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:14 am I honestly am worried about the RC.

Could be a wake up
You mean like any other year?
:lol: :lol:
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Chilli
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LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:44 am
Sards wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:14 am I honestly am worried about the RC.

Could be a wake up
You mean like EVERY other year?
Fuxed.
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Sards
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Grandpa wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 10:07 am
LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:44 am
Sards wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:14 am I honestly am worried about the RC.

Could be a wake up
You mean like any other year?
:lol: :lol:
I know you lot are going to gloat. Vokkers.
" URC, you can keep it..."...

Can already see the headlines
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Grandpa
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Sards wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 11:47 am
Grandpa wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 10:07 am
LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:44 am
You mean like any other year?
:lol: :lol:
I know you lot are going to gloat. Vokkers.
" URC, you can keep it..."...

Can already see the headlines
Gloat about what?

I miss SA'n teams in Super Rugby, but can see why they aligned with the same time zone... though playing in summer must be tough in SA?

I just hope SA don't leave the Rugby Championship.... we need them. I was only laughing because SA historically has only dominated the RC a few times... around 98/99 and 2007/08? So losing a game or two will hardly be a wake up call as happens more often than not? Winning all your RC games would be a nice wake up call to have though...
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OomStruisbaai
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Time to renew our SH rivalries.
Biffer
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Once every four years it's a proper competition. None of this home and away nonsense.

About time you added Japan and made it one game a year permanently.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Sandstorm
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Biffer wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:26 pm Once every four years it's a proper competition. None of this home and away nonsense.

About time you added Japan and made it one game a year permanently.
Japan are shite
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Ymx
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OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:15 pm Time to renew our SH rivalries.
It’s been a while my friend !!

Shit you just reminded me. I need to check if I can still get a ticket to SA v NZ in Twickers
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OomStruisbaai
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Expect the Wallabies will be a totally different challenge. They were just started to be a real threat, then they dump their coach.
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Guy Smiley
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Sandstorm wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:48 pm
Biffer wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:26 pm Once every four years it's a proper competition. None of this home and away nonsense.

About time you added Japan and made it one game a year permanently.
Japan are shite
Unless you're South African.
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OomStruisbaai
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Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:28 am
Sandstorm wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:48 pm
Biffer wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:26 pm Once every four years it's a proper competition. None of this home and away nonsense.

About time you added Japan and made it one game a year permanently.
Japan are shite
Unless you're South African.
I try to figure this out. 50% of the Springboks jol in Japan

However they are NH. They should be in the 6 nations
.
Biffer
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OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:52 pm
Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:28 am
Sandstorm wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:48 pm

Japan are shite
Unless you're South African.
I try to figure this out. 50% of the Springboks jol in Japan

However they are NH. They should be in the 6 nations
.
Glad you've admitted that South Africa shouldn't be in the Six Nations.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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OomStruisbaai
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Biffer wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:19 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:52 pm
Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:28 am

Unless you're South African.
I try to figure this out. 50% of the Springboks jol in Japan

However they are NH. They should be in the 6 nations
.
Glad you've admitted that South Africa shouldn't be in the Six Nations.
Ja the Springboks need to play the All Blacks. They are our rivals.

Will be interesting to see if the NH influence have improved us.
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OomStruisbaai
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The Rugby Championship 2023
South Africa v Australia
Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
Saturday, 8 July, 2023 Referee: Ben O'Keeffe (NZR)
Assistant Referee 1: Paul Williams (NZR)
Assistant Referee 2: Andrea Piardi (FIR)
TMO: Brendon Pickerill (NZR)
Argentina v New Zealand
Estadio Malvinas Argentina, Mendoza
Saturday, 8 July, 2023 Referee: Angus Gardner (RA)
Assistant Referee 1: Nic Berry (RA)
Assistant Referee 2: Jordan Way (RA)
TMO: Brett Cronan (RA)
Australia v Argentina
CommBank Stadium, Sydney
Saturday, 15 July, 2023 Referee: Jaco Peyper (SARU)
Assistant Referee 1: Paul Williams (NZR)
Assistant Referee 2: James Doleman (NZR)
TMO: Marius Jonker (SARU)
New Zealand v South Africa
Mount Smart Stadium, Auckland
Saturday, 15 July, 2023 Referee: Mathieu Raynal (FFR)
Assistant Referee 1: Angus Gardner (RA)
Assistant Referee 2: Pierre Brousset (FFR)
TMO: Ben Whitehouse (WRU)
Australia v New Zealand
Melbourne Cricket Ground, Melbourne
Saturday, 29 July, 2023 Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
Assistant Referee 1: Karl Dickson (RFU)
Assistant Referee 2: Christophe Ridley (RFU)
TMO: Tom Foley (RFU)
South Africa v Argentina
Emirates Airline Park, Johannesburg
Saturday, 29 July, 2023 Referee: Andrew Brace (IRFU)
Assistant Referee 1: Nika Amashukeli (GRU)
Assistant Referee 2: Chris Busby (IRFU)
TMO: Brett Cronan (RA)
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