NPR

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Jun 20, 2025 7:56 pm Marks for Scotland players:

Sione 6/10. Did some good things in attack and defence and no howlers, but not really showing up as much as you would want from a midfielder.
Duhan 7/10. A couple of great runs, a very good offload, a bit shoogly in defence but Smith and Freeman are screwing the whole defence.

Hopefully schoe gets decent gametime as the pack are smushing the Argies

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 8:54 am … on a similar note, the Sup final is all about who makes mistakes in fielding the ball, as have been the two recents finals here.

Pro rugby is dull at the moment

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 8:22 am So I don’t think we learned anything new last night.

Duhan won’t make the test 15 and if he gets a test cap it will be from the bench. The test wings will be Lowe and a.n.other, possibly Kinghorn with Keenan at fullback.

Sione has a good chance for the test 15 but I think it would have to be at 12. I don’t think he is as good at 13, being second receiver at 12 allows him to show much more of his passing and kicking game.

Yr Alban wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 2:40 pm The fact is that if you have Duhan in your team, you have to make sure you get the ball to him in situations where he can do Duhan things. That didn’t happen on the last Lions tour - he played in every test, but the game plan didn’t suit him at all. He feeds on the ‘controlled chaos’ back play that has been Scotland’s hallmark for years now. He is true game-breaker if the game suits him, but if it doesn’t he can be ineffectual.

I didn’t watch last night’s game, but I suspect this is what happened.

Punter15 wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:11 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 2:40 pm The fact is that if you have Duhan in your team, you have to make sure you get the ball to him in situations where he can do Duhan things. That didn’t happen on the last Lions tour - he played in every test, but the game plan didn’t suit him at all. He feeds on the ‘controlled chaos’ back play that has been Scotland’s hallmark for years now. He is true game-breaker if the game suits him, but if it doesn’t he can be ineffectual.

I didn’t watch last night’s game, but I suspect this is what happened.

He was fine. Got caught up in the mess a bit but fine. Most of the moaning comes from Englanders who don’t like him because a) he’s not homegrown and b) he’s torn them several new arseholes over the last few years.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Jun 20, 2025 7:56 pm Marks for Scotland players:

Sione 6/10. Did some good things in attack and defence and no howlers, but not really showing up as much as you would want from a midfielder.
Duhan 7/10. A couple of great runs, a very good offload, a bit shoogly in defence but Smith and Freeman are screwing the whole defence.

Hopefully schoe gets decent gametime as the pack are smushing the Argies

Jock42 wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 5:00 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Jun 20, 2025 7:56 pm Marks for Scotland players:

Sione 6/10. Did some good things in attack and defence and no howlers, but not really showing up as much as you would want from a midfielder.
Duhan 7/10. A couple of great runs, a very good offload, a bit shoogly in defence but Smith and Freeman are screwing the whole defence.

Hopefully schoe gets decent gametime as the pack are smushing the Argies

In Sione's defence he wasn't getting much ball in the first half. Aki is nowhere near as good at distribution as he is. Was more productive in 2nd half at 12.

Punter15 wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:11 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 2:40 pm The fact is that if you have Duhan in your team, you have to make sure you get the ball to him in situations where he can do Duhan things. That didn’t happen on the last Lions tour - he played in every test, but the game plan didn’t suit him at all. He feeds on the ‘controlled chaos’ back play that has been Scotland’s hallmark for years now. He is true game-breaker if the game suits him, but if it doesn’t he can be ineffectual.

I didn’t watch last night’s game, but I suspect this is what happened.

He was fine. Got caught up in the mess a bit but fine. Most of the moaning comes from Englanders who don’t like him because a) he’s not homegrown and b) he’s torn them several new arseholes over the last few years.

SaintK wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 10:14 am

Punter15 wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:11 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 2:40 pm The fact is that if you have Duhan in your team, you have to make sure you get the ball to him in situations where he can do Duhan things. That didn’t happen on the last Lions tour - he played in every test, but the game plan didn’t suit him at all. He feeds on the ‘controlled chaos’ back play that has been Scotland’s hallmark for years now. He is true game-breaker if the game suits him, but if it doesn’t he can be ineffectual.

I didn’t watch last night’s game, but I suspect this is what happened.

He was fine. Got caught up in the mess a bit but fine. Most of the moaning comes from Englanders who don’t like him because a) he’s not homegrown and b) he’s torn them several new arseholes over the last few years.

Really? Links please.
Have to say he was the 4th best winger on the pitch from the starting teams probably 5th after he had been replaced.
Looked exactly as if he hadn't played a competetive game in 3 months

Slick wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 11:11 am

SaintK wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 10:14 am

Punter15 wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:11 pm

He was fine. Got caught up in the mess a bit but fine. Most of the moaning comes from Englanders who don’t like him because a) he’s not homegrown and b) he’s torn them several new arseholes over the last few years.

Really? Links please.
Have to say he was the 4th best winger on the pitch from the starting teams probably 5th after he had been replaced.
Looked exactly as if he hadn't played a competetive game in 3 months

Maybe, but speaking with mates this morning folk kept saying he had dropped 2 high balls and were surprised to learn Freeman had dropped more. He didn’t have a great game and, as you say, he has been out for months, bit there seems a lot of confirmation bias and for a large part of the game he was the only one looking like he might break the defence.

SaintK wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 11:36 am

Slick wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 11:11 am

SaintK wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 10:14 am
Really? Links please.
Have to say he was the 4th best winger on the pitch from the starting teams probably 5th after he had been replaced.
Looked exactly as if he hadn't played a competetive game in 3 months

Maybe, but speaking with mates this morning folk kept saying he had dropped 2 high balls and were surprised to learn Freeman had dropped more. He didn’t have a great game and, as you say, he has been out for months, bit there seems a lot of confirmation bias and for a large part of the game he was the only one looking like he might break the defence.

Stats don't bear that out. Freeman made twice as many carries, meters and line breaks as VdM and beat 4 times as many men.
https://www.rugbypass.com/live/argen ... ns/stats/

BagfordViper wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:42 pm I think there is indeed a bit of confirmation bias involved, (I do often find myself raising an eyebrow at the stats, doubting their accuracy), but that's human nature. There has been a bit of a bow wave of excitement about Freeman in both the press and amongst rugby supporters south of the Tweed. It's not unwarranted; he's undeniably box office and an excellent, very dangerous attacking player. In contrast, VDM doesn't attract quite the same love and respect outside Scotland. Rightly or wrongly he's seen as a bit of a dodgy import and not everyone is as aware that he really didn't have an easy time of it at all when he first washed up in Edinburgh. Sometimes folk also just take to a player and will forgive them a very great deal, and sometimes they don't, or go so far as to take very much against and will cut them no slack whatsoever. That's just the way it is.

Both Freeman and VDM did good and bad things on Saturday. I think the suggestion that either were calamitously bad is overdoing things. What's odd is how it's taken attention away from other shortcomings, eg in the back row and in the team selection and pattern of play. As someone else sensibly observed, most of this will mean very little after the first game in Australia.

As an aside, I do increasingly think players under a well-placed and well-chased kick are on an absolute hiding to nothing, the chaser has such an advantage. But that's another whole can of worms.

Slick wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:59 pm

BagfordViper wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:42 pm I think there is indeed a bit of confirmation bias involved, (I do often find myself raising an eyebrow at the stats, doubting their accuracy), but that's human nature. There has been a bit of a bow wave of excitement about Freeman in both the press and amongst rugby supporters south of the Tweed. It's not unwarranted; he's undeniably box office and an excellent, very dangerous attacking player. In contrast, VDM doesn't attract quite the same love and respect outside Scotland. Rightly or wrongly he's seen as a bit of a dodgy import and not everyone is as aware that he really didn't have an easy time of it at all when he first washed up in Edinburgh. Sometimes folk also just take to a player and will forgive them a very great deal, and sometimes they don't, or go so far as to take very much against and will cut them no slack whatsoever. That's just the way it is.

Both Freeman and VDM did good and bad things on Saturday. I think the suggestion that either were calamitously bad is overdoing things. What's odd is how it's taken attention away from other shortcomings, eg in the back row and in the team selection and pattern of play. As someone else sensibly observed, most of this will mean very little after the first game in Australia.

As an aside, I do increasingly think players under a well-placed and well-chased kick are on an absolute hiding to nothing, the chaser has such an advantage. But that's another whole can of worms.

On the last bit, it’s yet another unintended consequence of a law being tweaked, that will no doubt have to be tweaked again as the number of box kicks continues to rise. We seem to have been in this never ending cycle for a few years now

I like neeps wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 5:53 pm

Slick wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:59 pm

BagfordViper wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:42 pm I think there is indeed a bit of confirmation bias involved, (I do often find myself raising an eyebrow at the stats, doubting their accuracy), but that's human nature. There has been a bit of a bow wave of excitement about Freeman in both the press and amongst rugby supporters south of the Tweed. It's not unwarranted; he's undeniably box office and an excellent, very dangerous attacking player. In contrast, VDM doesn't attract quite the same love and respect outside Scotland. Rightly or wrongly he's seen as a bit of a dodgy import and not everyone is as aware that he really didn't have an easy time of it at all when he first washed up in Edinburgh. Sometimes folk also just take to a player and will forgive them a very great deal, and sometimes they don't, or go so far as to take very much against and will cut them no slack whatsoever. That's just the way it is.

Both Freeman and VDM did good and bad things on Saturday. I think the suggestion that either were calamitously bad is overdoing things. What's odd is how it's taken attention away from other shortcomings, eg in the back row and in the team selection and pattern of play. As someone else sensibly observed, most of this will mean very little after the first game in Australia.

As an aside, I do increasingly think players under a well-placed and well-chased kick are on an absolute hiding to nothing, the chaser has such an advantage. But that's another whole can of worms.

On the last bit, it’s yet another unintended consequence of a law being tweaked, that will no doubt have to be tweaked again as the number of box kicks continues to rise. We seem to have been in this never ending cycle for a few years now

I hope it's not changed, box kicks have gone from incredibly boring to quite exciting now.

Slick wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 7:00 pm

I like neeps wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 5:53 pm

Slick wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:59 pm

On the last bit, it’s yet another unintended consequence of a law being tweaked, that will no doubt have to be tweaked again as the number of box kicks continues to rise. We seem to have been in this never ending cycle for a few years now

I hope it's not changed, box kicks have gone from incredibly boring to quite exciting now.

Did you see TotM comments on it? Something along the lines of the average kicking going up from 60-70 in a game and rising. It’s a bit dull

Slick wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 7:00 pm

I like neeps wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 5:53 pm

Slick wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:59 pm

On the last bit, it’s yet another unintended consequence of a law being tweaked, that will no doubt have to be tweaked again as the number of box kicks continues to rise. We seem to have been in this never ending cycle for a few years now

I hope it's not changed, box kicks have gone from incredibly boring to quite exciting now.

Did you see TotM comments on it? Something along the lines of the average kicking going up from 60-70 in a game and rising. It’s a bit dull

I like neeps wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:20 am

Slick wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 7:00 pm

I like neeps wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 5:53 pm

I hope it's not changed, box kicks have gone from incredibly boring to quite exciting now.

Did you see TotM comments on it? Something along the lines of the average kicking going up from 60-70 in a game and rising. It’s a bit dull

I was on the verge of not watching rugby last year because of the number of kicks and then the blocking lines etc. But these days a lot of kicks end up in a contest and that contest ends up with the attacking team running at an unstructured defence. It's a huge improvement. Teams just aren't going to throw the ball around midfield anymore - defences are too good.

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:36 am

I like neeps wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:20 am

Slick wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 7:00 pm

Did you see TotM comments on it? Something along the lines of the average kicking going up from 60-70 in a game and rising. It’s a bit dull

I was on the verge of not watching rugby last year because of the number of kicks and then the blocking lines etc. But these days a lot of kicks end up in a contest and that contest ends up with the attacking team running at an unstructured defence. It's a huge improvement. Teams just aren't going to throw the ball around midfield anymore - defences are too good.

I'm on the verge of turning off now, if I wanted to watch Aussie Rules I'd watch it.

westport wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 12:33 pm Hutch should have been in from the start anyway

Poshprop wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:12 am Finlay Calder is the guest on The Good The Bad and The rugby this week. Not very often you hear from him and I would love to hear a lot more from him. The 89 Lions was the first Lions tour I really remember and it cemented my love for rugby and Calder was a big part of that. Its a good show but they could could have easily got another 3 or 4 hours out of it , well worth a listen.

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:36 am

I like neeps wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:20 am

Slick wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 7:00 pm

Did you see TotM comments on it? Something along the lines of the average kicking going up from 60-70 in a game and rising. It’s a bit dull

I was on the verge of not watching rugby last year because of the number of kicks and then the blocking lines etc. But these days a lot of kicks end up in a contest and that contest ends up with the attacking team running at an unstructured defence. It's a huge improvement. Teams just aren't going to throw the ball around midfield anymore - defences are too good.

I'm on the verge of turning off now, if I wanted to watch Aussie Rules I'd watch it.

Punter15 wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 1:06 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:36 am

I like neeps wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:20 am

I was on the verge of not watching rugby last year because of the number of kicks and then the blocking lines etc. But these days a lot of kicks end up in a contest and that contest ends up with the attacking team running at an unstructured defence. It's a huge improvement. Teams just aren't going to throw the ball around midfield anymore - defences are too good.

I'm on the verge of turning off now, if I wanted to watch Aussie Rules I'd watch it.

It's a good skill to have though - I played a season for the Sussex Swans in the 90s to try and be a better full back, but the main take out was that being fit for rugby doesn't even come close to being fit for Aussie Rules.

But yes, it's a boring development.

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:01 am

Punter15 wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 1:06 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:36 am


I'm on the verge of turning off now, if I wanted to watch Aussie Rules I'd watch it.

It's a good skill to have though - I played a season for the Sussex Swans in the 90s to try and be a better full back, but the main take out was that being fit for rugby doesn't even come close to being fit for Aussie Rules.

But yes, it's a boring development.

I lived in Brighton from '94 until last year and I had no idea there was an Aussie Rules team there, Google tells me they play at Waterhall, so that's beside the rugby ground - did you play rugby for Brighton?

I almost got involved with coaching there around 10 years ago, but life got in the way.

Punter15 wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 1:58 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:01 am

Punter15 wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 1:06 pm

It's a good skill to have though - I played a season for the Sussex Swans in the 90s to try and be a better full back, but the main take out was that being fit for rugby doesn't even come close to being fit for Aussie Rules.

But yes, it's a boring development.

I lived in Brighton from '94 until last year and I had no idea there was an Aussie Rules team there, Google tells me they play at Waterhall, so that's beside the rugby ground - did you play rugby for Brighton?

I almost got involved with coaching there around 10 years ago, but life got in the way.

Early 90s. I was at Brighton Poly, but playing up at London Scottish. Sussex Swans were just over near Southwick at the time - Sydney Swans kits, tight red shorts and all. Kick chase was much less of a thing then, and I naively just went along to keep my fitness up and work on my aerial game. Big, big eye opener, but I did learn how to catch in the air while getting elbowed in the balls.

Slick wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 3:36 pm

Punter15 wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 1:58 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:01 am


I lived in Brighton from '94 until last year and I had no idea there was an Aussie Rules team there, Google tells me they play at Waterhall, so that's beside the rugby ground - did you play rugby for Brighton?

I almost got involved with coaching there around 10 years ago, but life got in the way.

Early 90s. I was at Brighton Poly, but playing up at London Scottish. Sussex Swans were just over near Southwick at the time - Sydney Swans kits, tight red shorts and all. Kick chase was much less of a thing then, and I naively just went along to keep my fitness up and work on my aerial game. Big, big eye opener, but I did learn how to catch in the air while getting elbowed in the balls.

Might have overlapped at Scottish, I was there 92/92 and then 99/00

Simian wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:47 am Who was the Edinburgh player who went to Aussie rules and did really well (think he went to the swans)?

Slick wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 3:36 pm

Punter15 wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 1:58 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:01 am


I lived in Brighton from '94 until last year and I had no idea there was an Aussie Rules team there, Google tells me they play at Waterhall, so that's beside the rugby ground - did you play rugby for Brighton?

I almost got involved with coaching there around 10 years ago, but life got in the way.

Early 90s. I was at Brighton Poly, but playing up at London Scottish. Sussex Swans were just over near Southwick at the time - Sydney Swans kits, tight red shorts and all. Kick chase was much less of a thing then, and I naively just went along to keep my fitness up and work on my aerial game. Big, big eye opener, but I did learn how to catch in the air while getting elbowed in the balls.

Might have overlapped at Scottish, I was there 92/92 and then 99/00

AF73 wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:48 pm

Simian wrote: Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:47 am Who was the Edinburgh player who went to Aussie rules and did really well (think he went to the swans)?

Mike Pyke - Canadian international, Edinburgh and ultimately Sydney Swans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pyke

Biffer wrote: Thu Jun 19, 2025 8:48 pm

Punter15 wrote: Thu Jun 19, 2025 8:40 pm Scotland U20 Men squad for the 2025 World Rugby U20 Championship

Forwards

Ollie Blyth-Lafferty (Edinburgh Rugby)
Dylan Cockburn (Melrose RFC)
Freddy Douglas – CO-CAPTAIN (Edinburgh Rugby)
Oliver Duncan (Edinburgh Rugby)
Oliver Finlayson-Russell (University of St Andrews)
Mark Fyffe (University of Edinburgh)
Bart Godsell (Loughborough University)
Dan Halkon (Glasgow Warriors)
Reuben Logan (Northampton Saints)
Oliver McKenna (Glasgow Warriors)
Charlie Moss (Montpellier)
Will Pearce (Cardiff Metropolitan University/Bristol Bears)
Joe Roberts (Glasgow Warriors)
Jake Shearer (Glasgow Warriors)
Seb Stephen (Glasgow Warriors)
Jamie Stewart (Edinburgh Rugby)
Ben White (Melrose RFC/Edinburgh Rugby)

Backs

Jack Brown (Edinburgh Rugby)
Isaac Coates (Edinburgh Rugby)
Noah Cowan (Brunel University/Ealing Trailfinders)
Jed Findlay (Exeter Chiefs)
Jack Hocking (Edinburgh Rugby)
Angus Hunter (Heriot’s Rugby)
Nairn Moncrieff (Edinburgh Rugby)
Hector Patterson (Edinburgh Rugby)
Matthew Urwin (Glasgow Warriors)
Cameron van Wyk (Ayr RFC)
Johnny Ventisei – CO-CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors)
Fergus Watson (Glasgow Warriors)
Kerr Yule (Glasgow Warriors)

Plenty of talent in there but a very tough group.

Just have to win one game