NPR

Rinkals wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:56 am

Woddy wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:18 am Perhaps better for a wider fred, but seeing as this one has become the de facto for (at times) serious political discussion within and without the US, I thought this might be of interest, especially to the likes of Fonzee and Le Frog: https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2020 ... al-parties

It's a comparison of political parties from around the world on various issues and only really starts with a GOP vs RoW comparison before looking at other systems. You can hover over the graphs to make them concentrate on e.g. "conservative" parties to see just how much those vary on issues.

Jesus Christ!

Reading that, it appears that the US is just a smidgen away from becoming a full-blown Communist State under Biden?

Unbelievable.

In the truest sense of the word.

Where's Joseph McCarthy when you need him?

Lovely opinion piece in the Gaurdian about Trump Voters I read earlier.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... air-leader

Living in a rust belt, zero opportunity poverty and despair riven shithole myself, where nothing ever changes unless it is into even more poverty, despair and shite'ness...and where the democratic parties you elect to fix things or just improve things a tiny but says shit like "well the rest of the UK is doing brilliantly" (Peter Hains constant reply as Welsh secretary when continuously asked about all the endemic child poverty in the valleys over his ten years) you can really understand why everyone voted for Brexit, and thinks, "you know what fuck it".

Middle class morality tales and finger jabbing can only keep the poor in check for so long.

Of course if they're entitled to think you know what fuck it it does empower the thought, you know what fuck'em

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:35 am Of course if they're entitled to think you know what fuck it it does empower the thought, you know what fuck'em

Are you coming out in support of REFRY or not? It's hard to tell....

Line6 HXFX wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:31 am Lovely opinion piece in the Gaurdian about Trump Voters I read earlier.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... air-leader

Living in a rust belt, zero opportunity poverty and despair riven shithole myself, where nothing ever changes unless it is into even more poverty, despair and shite'ness...and where the democratic parties you elect to fix things or just improve things a tiny but says shit like "well the rest of the UK is doing brilliantly" (Peter Hains constant reply as Welsh secretary when continuously asked about all the endemic child poverty in the valleys over his ten years) you can really understand why everyone voted for Brexit, and thinks, "you know what fuck it".

Middle class morality tales and finger jabbing can only keep the poor in check for so long.

Thanks for sharing that!

Something that's been missing from the speeches I've seen from Biden, Harris, et al over the last few weeks is talk of "working class". It might have been there, but "fix the middle class" seemed to be said more often and louder. AOC and her sort seem to be focused on minorities and urban poor, which is necessary too, but again I felt like the rural working class people were ignored just as they were in Hilary's campaign. At the very least, I've not heard about solutions to their problems.

I come from a similar area in Canada... lots of rural land, not a even a lot of agriculture (like where I am now, massive farms that sell for several million when they do), lots of people on wages that allow them to get by. Funnily enough, where my parents moved is the rich person's playground, but when you move away from the lakes where all the cottages are, the quality of homes can be as bad as anywhere in poverty-stricken US (getting images of my cousin's and uncle's places, which could be condemned if inspected).

I don't know what the solutions are, but I think the reason why 'socialism' scares a lot of these people is that they know they'll be taxed higher and when you don't have a lot, having to fork out a bit more each month is a threat to your livelihood. I'm not even sure of the math, or if it's true, but most wouldn't be able to work out whether or not a bit more in taxes for healthcare is cheaper than what they're paying for private insurance / hospital visits. Things like this loom when you're teetering on the edge.

The perception of 'taking our jobs' is here as well and I suspect, aside from racism/xenophobia (which is all too common in Canada as well), they hear about immigration and wonder how those people can come (and sometimes thrive) when life for them is so mediocre (if not shit). There are shortages in a lot of areas - skilled trades and services - here, and our government brings in a lot of immigrants to fill those roles. I suspect, though, that a lot of the need is in areas where the downtrodden can't simply pack up and move to. Even if they could, why should they leave their 'heartland'? Again, no economist/number cruncher, but I wonder how feasible it'd be for governments to help businesses relocate? Maybe having one company towns is what set places up for failure when those things eventually close? I used to work at a school in a small town/mostly rural community that was built in the 1950s to hold some 1500 students 9-12 and into the early 90s was over-filled to about 1800 with a few 'portable' classrooms built for the overflow. Cut to 2018, the school now houses Grs 7-12 and has just over 600 students. Part of the reason is that farms are bigger and more automated, fewer families, fewer kids, but there were also several big industries that shut down/moved away... funnily enough, the town is smack dab on the major highway network between Toronto and Montreal, a few hours between both. So if that kind of town, on the main route, is shrinking, you can imagine how the more isolated ones are doing. A lot of the kids I worked with don't see a bright future unless they're smart enough to go to university/college and get out, but a lot like living in the country and the education won't help them in their home towns because there's no outlet to use it.

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:47 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:35 am Of course if they're entitled to think you know what fuck it it does empower the thought, you know what fuck'em

Are you coming out in support of REFRY or not? It's hard to tell....

Neither at present, what is it?

Flockwitt wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:07 pm Yep. It's only going to be a matter of weeks and Trump will get his marching orders. And not from Biden. Trump can strut and bluster all he wants but come the electoral college process beginning of Dec he won't get any traction beyond that, the GOP will stop their posturing and withdraw support, or rather will have something they can hide behind. It's easy for Mitch to mumble nothings to Trump's base now.

They need a constitutional monarch to knock their heads together.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:57 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:47 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:35 am Of course if they're entitled to think you know what fuck it it does empower the thought, you know what fuck'em

Are you coming out in support of REFRY or not? It's hard to tell....

Neither at present, what is it?

Kertim reincarnate?

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:57 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:47 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:35 am Of course if they're entitled to think you know what fuck it it does empower the thought, you know what fuck'em

Are you coming out in support of REFRY or not? It's hard to tell....

Neither at present, what is it?

Line6 is a former poster called REFRY. Everything is doom and gloom for him BTW.

Sanders is lobbying for a cabinet post as Labor Secretary, but Biden had said that no senators would be in his cabinet. That is obvious for Warren, but will that apply to Sanders as well?

GogLais wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:01 pm

Flockwitt wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:07 pm Yep. It's only going to be a matter of weeks and Trump will get his marching orders. And not from Biden. Trump can strut and bluster all he wants but come the electoral college process beginning of Dec he won't get any traction beyond that, the GOP will stop their posturing and withdraw support, or rather will have something they can hide behind. It's easy for Mitch to mumble nothings to Trump's base now.

They need a constitutional monarch to knock their heads together.

Yep. Big Liz would already have given Trump a slap round the head, said 'gies the keys to the whitehouse ya fuckin bam' and sent him packing, while the DoE polished an elephant hunting rifle in the corner as a sign of encouragement.

Bloody republicans.

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:45 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:57 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:47 am

Are you coming out in support of REFRY or not? It's hard to tell....

Neither at present, what is it?

Line6 is a former poster called REFRY. Everything is doom and gloom for him BTW.

Ah, I thought it was perhaps a term for a new referendum that had until now eluded me. This is a fairly gloomy position, we've got some voters in the USA and the UK willing to vote for a shit sandwich that everyone has to eat making it harder to address their concerns (which granted are often ignored anyway), and you've got to wonder when Trump or Brexit don't deliver what worse version of populism we'll get next, and at what point do the gas chambers get constructed

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:11 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:45 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:57 pm

Neither at present, what is it?

Line6 is a former poster called REFRY. Everything is doom and gloom for him BTW.

Ah, I thought it was perhaps a term for a new referendum that had until now eluded me. This is a fairly gloomy position, we've got some voters in the USA and the UK willing to vote for a shit sandwich that everyone has to eat making it harder to address their concerns (which granted are often ignored anyway), and you've got to wonder when Trump or Brexit don't deliver what worse version of populism we'll get next, and at what point do the gas chambers get constructed

You think we'll be able to afford gas? Pfft, pie in the sky optimism....

Rinkals wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:56 am

Woddy wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:18 am Perhaps better for a wider fred, but seeing as this one has become the de facto for (at times) serious political discussion within and without the US, I thought this might be of interest, especially to the likes of Fonzee and Le Frog: https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2020 ... al-parties

It's a comparison of political parties from around the world on various issues and only really starts with a GOP vs RoW comparison before looking at other systems. You can hover over the graphs to make them concentrate on e.g. "conservative" parties to see just how much those vary on issues.

Jesus Christ!

Reading that, it appears that the US is just a smidgen away from becoming a full-blown Communist State under Biden?

Unbelievable.

In the truest sense of the word.

Yeah, I was very surprised to see the Dems apparently so far to the left, more so than the British Labour party (for example) on most issues. I've always thought of them (the bulk of them anyway) as like home Tories in the British context. Equally surprised to see all British parties considered to be less respecting of democracy than most other nations' equivalents.

Overall though, for me the best message is that "left" and "right" are not helpful superdescriptors as they brush over what policies parties and the people thinking of voting for them really stand for.

penguin wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:24 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:11 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:45 pm

Line6 is a former poster called REFRY. Everything is doom and gloom for him BTW.

Ah, I thought it was perhaps a term for a new referendum that had until now eluded me. This is a fairly gloomy position, we've got some voters in the USA and the UK willing to vote for a shit sandwich that everyone has to eat making it harder to address their concerns (which granted are often ignored anyway), and you've got to wonder when Trump or Brexit don't deliver what worse version of populism we'll get next, and at what point do the gas chambers get constructed

You think we'll be able to afford gas? Pfft, pie in the sky optimism....

It only needs to be a gas chamber big enough for 655 sitting MPs and the 40--odd Brexit Radicals who got sacked in 2017. Plus Cameron, Farage and a few journalists from the Sun.
Call it a 750-seater oven just to be safe.

Double post

.

Fangle wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:46 pm Sanders is lobbying for a cabinet post as Labor Secretary, but Biden had said that no senators would be in his cabinet. That is obvious for Warren, but will that apply to Sanders as well?

Vermont's governor is a republican - so he would presumably appoint a GOP replacement. Under Vermont law, there then needs to be a special election inside the next 3 months. I think a lot would depend on who the Dems would put up as Bernie's replacement and if he would get his endorsement.

Vermont;s actually a really interesting question for the Democrats moving forwards. Both Leahy and Bernie are coming to an end, and Leahy is the ONLY democrat Senator the state has ever elected. The Dems desperately need to keep both seats, so if they could move a younger person in to replace Bernie safely, it would make life a lot easier when Leahy does move on

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:30 pm

penguin wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:24 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:11 pm

Ah, I thought it was perhaps a term for a new referendum that had until now eluded me. This is a fairly gloomy position, we've got some voters in the USA and the UK willing to vote for a shit sandwich that everyone has to eat making it harder to address their concerns (which granted are often ignored anyway), and you've got to wonder when Trump or Brexit don't deliver what worse version of populism we'll get next, and at what point do the gas chambers get constructed

You think we'll be able to afford gas? Pfft, pie in the sky optimism....

It only needs to be a gas chamber big enough for 655 sitting MPs and the 40--odd Brexit Radicals who got sacked in 2017. Plus Cameron, Farage and a few journalists from the Sun.
Call it a 750-seater oven just to be safe.

Can we put Blair and Adams in there as well, to cover the surviving knackers from the previous generation. Mandelson too, whenever he next pokes his head up.

Woddy wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:55 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:30 pm

penguin wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:24 pm

You think we'll be able to afford gas? Pfft, pie in the sky optimism....

It only needs to be a gas chamber big enough for 655 sitting MPs and the 40--odd Brexit Radicals who got sacked in 2017. Plus Cameron, Farage and a few journalists from the Sun.
Call it a 750-seater oven just to be safe.

Can we put Blair and Adams in there as well, to cover the surviving knackers from the previous generation. Mandelson too, whenever he next pokes his head up.

Barroso, Junker, Hollande and Merkel

Saint wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:30 pm

Fangle wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:46 pm Sanders is lobbying for a cabinet post as Labor Secretary, but Biden had said that no senators would be in his cabinet. That is obvious for Warren, but will that apply to Sanders as well?

Vermont's governor is a republican - so he would presumably appoint a GOP replacement. Under Vermont law, there then needs to be a special election inside the next 3 months. I think a lot would depend on who the Dems would put up as Bernie's replacement and if he would get his endorsement.

Vermont;s actually a really interesting question for the Democrats moving forwards. Both Leahy and Bernie are coming to an end, and Leahy is the ONLY democrat Senator the state has ever elected. The Dems desperately need to keep both seats, so if they could move a younger person in to replace Bernie safely, it would make life a lot easier when Leahy does move on

Another reason not to appoint Bernie.

A lot depends on the Georgia run offs in January which really depends on voter turnout. Without Trump to vote against, this might be difficult for the dems.

Glaston wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:13 pm

Woddy wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:55 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:30 pm



It only needs to be a gas chamber big enough for 655 sitting MPs and the 40--odd Brexit Radicals who got sacked in 2017. Plus Cameron, Farage and a few journalists from the Sun.
Call it a 750-seater oven just to be safe.

Can we put Blair and Adams in there as well, to cover the surviving knackers from the previous generation. Mandelson too, whenever he next pokes his head up.

Barroso, Junker, Hollande and Merkel

Merkel? She's fine.

Fangle wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:13 pm

Saint wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:30 pm

Fangle wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:46 pm Sanders is lobbying for a cabinet post as Labor Secretary, but Biden had said that no senators would be in his cabinet. That is obvious for Warren, but will that apply to Sanders as well?

Vermont's governor is a republican - so he would presumably appoint a GOP replacement. Under Vermont law, there then needs to be a special election inside the next 3 months. I think a lot would depend on who the Dems would put up as Bernie's replacement and if he would get his endorsement.

Vermont;s actually a really interesting question for the Democrats moving forwards. Both Leahy and Bernie are coming to an end, and Leahy is the ONLY democrat Senator the state has ever elected. The Dems desperately need to keep both seats, so if they could move a younger person in to replace Bernie safely, it would make life a lot easier when Leahy does move on

Another reason not to appoint Bernie.

A lot depends on the Georgia run offs in January which really depends on voter turnout. Without Trump to vote against, this might be difficult for the dems.

Just wondering if Trump's refusal to leave might not back fire on the GOP with regards Georgia. It keeps him front and center of the Republicans and points to all the issues the swing voters didn't like about Trump and his enablers. The uglier his non-departure gets the more fired up the Dems will be.

You couldn't make this up!..

Trump is.

TB63 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:28 pm


You couldn't make this up!..

He's just retweeting something he's read. Not his responsibility to check it's legit

Every one of these tweets goes into the official presidential record of things the president has officially said (can't be arsed to lookup the correct name)... how insane is that.

Saint wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:52 pm

TB63 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:28 pm


You couldn't make this up!..

He's just retweeting something he's read. Not his responsibility to check it's legit

It’s Qanon, so obviously the veracity is beyond question.

OANN is different.
That's the crowd who claimed that covid was created in a lab in NC.

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:58 pm OANN is different.
That's the crowd who claimed that covid was created in a lab in NC.

ONAN more like, wankers.

Raggs wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:56 pm Every one of these tweets goes into the official presidential record of things the president has officially said (can't be arsed to lookup the correct name)... how insane is that.

I didn't know it wasn't just called the presidential record, but at least he'll have something to put in his library

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:25 pm

Raggs wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:56 pm Every one of these tweets goes into the official presidential record of things the president has officially said (can't be arsed to lookup the correct name)... how insane is that.

I didn't know it wasn't just called the presidential record, but at least he'll have something to put in his library

The Trump Presidential Library aka yet another opportunity to skim money off of donations for another cause

Strangely appropriate

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:58 pm OANN is different.
That's the crowd who claimed that covid was created in a lab in NC.

OAN seems to be the go to lifeboat for the Right wing/ Trumply loons since Fox called the election and started showing the tiniest grip on actual reality.

since i watch all American news, yeah OAN is worse than foxnews

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:25 pm

Raggs wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:56 pm Every one of these tweets goes into the official presidential record of things the president has officially said (can't be arsed to lookup the correct name)... how insane is that.

I didn't know it wasn't just called the presidential record, but at least he'll have something to put in his library

It's going to have a huuuuge fiction section

Enzedder wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:58 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:25 pm

Raggs wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:56 pm Every one of these tweets goes into the official presidential record of things the president has officially said (can't be arsed to lookup the correct name)... how insane is that.

I didn't know it wasn't just called the presidential record, but at least he'll have something to put in his library

It's going to have a huuuuge fiction section

What’s the Dewey decimal coding for ‘Fake News’?

tabascoboy wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:21 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:58 pm OANN is different.
That's the crowd who claimed that covid was created in a lab in NC.

ONAN more like, wankers.

Open goal that one.

Jb1981 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:07 am

Enzedder wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:58 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:25 pm

I didn't know it wasn't just called the presidential record, but at least he'll have something to put in his library

It's going to have a huuuuge fiction section

What’s the Dewey decimal coding for ‘Fake News’?

Donald will thank you not to associate him with anything Dewish