Slick wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 9:17 am
I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.
I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.
It’s odd all right, but it’s exactly - EXACTLY- what happened with Hogg on the last tour. In the eyes of some, a Scotland player simply isn’t allowed to be the best in his position. There was a hate campaign against Hogg as well. It didn’t work at first, but probably did eventually when he was dropped for the third Test. (Edit - I’m talking solely about Hogg as a player here. It goes without saying, in the light of subsequent events, that he is an awful person).
Similarly - and I’ll get shit for this, but hey ho - I expect that the only Scotland players picked in the squad today will be the ones who everyone expects to be in or around the Test 23. Scotland don’t get fringe or squad players selected. It’s a hangover from the 3 or 4 tours when we had hardly anyone good enough to tour. Either you make it impossible for the manager to leave you out, or they will.
This sounds bitter, but it isn’t really. I’ve come to accept it. The players who really deserved to tour last time did, and it will mostly be the same this time. And the tour is mostly about the Tests now. The role of the dirt trackers is much less than it used to be.
A mate cmon, get the tiny wee violin out , Scotland have has just as much dross as England Billy36 style test no hopers picked , as anyone else.
Teapot Peter wright top of the pyramid for lions joirneymanship.
This tour should really be one of scotlands largest contingent ever. Agree totally that dirtrackers role has diminished since 97, because the modern era just has much shorter tours as it’s all about the £€$
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying we’ve never had dodgy picks on a Lions tour. The 1993 tour is a case in point (Wright, yes, but also Burnell, Cronin and Andy Reed). But I don’t think we’ve had one since 2001. The closest I can find was Allan Dell in 2019, and he was an injury replacement on a tour famous for having some dubious players called up as cover. And in 2021, the only Scot selected who didn’t end up with at least one Test cap was Zander Fagerson, and I doubt anyone would argue he wasn’t picked on merit.
I just think that a Scotland player has to be enough of a standout to be in obvious Test contention in order to get picked. This is why I doubt Jamie Ritchie will be picked this time, and I rate Darcy Graham’s chances at no better than 50:50. But I’m not asking for sympathy. I was angry when players who really should have been picked weren’t (Chris Paterson the worst one wronged, but Jason White was only an injury replacement too). That didn’t happen last time and I don’t think it will this time either. I can live with that.
Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 11:44 am
Telegraph believes Faz will be touring - as SaintK says if you want to see a hate campaign follow that on social media in an hour or so
Slick wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 9:17 am
I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.
I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.
It’s odd all right, but it’s exactly - EXACTLY- what happened with Hogg on the last tour. In the eyes of some, a Scotland player simply isn’t allowed to be the best in his position. There was a hate campaign against Hogg as well. It didn’t work at first, but probably did eventually when he was dropped for the third Test. (Edit - I’m talking solely about Hogg as a player here. It goes without saying, in the light of subsequent events, that he is an awful person).
Similarly - and I’ll get shit for this, but hey ho - I expect that the only Scotland players picked in the squad today will be the ones who everyone expects to be in or around the Test 23. Scotland don’t get fringe or squad players selected. It’s a hangover from the 3 or 4 tours when we had hardly anyone good enough to tour. Either you make it impossible for the manager to leave you out, or they will.
This sounds bitter, but it isn’t really. I’ve come to accept it. The players who really deserved to tour last time did, and it will mostly be the same this time. And the tour is mostly about the Tests now. The role of the dirt trackers is much less than it used to be.
Can't agree with that. Hogg had the chance to nail the position down and was rightfully dropped for the last test. He was an experienced senior player at that stage but his performances didn't back that up.
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 11:56 am
by Slick
Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 11:50 am
Discussion was ‘hate campaign’, as you know is coming for the man, rather than the justified question as to whether he should be on the tour
Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 11:44 am
Telegraph believes Faz will be touring - as SaintK says if you want to see a hate campaign follow that on social media in an hour or so
The Times as well.
I'm all revved up.
To be fair, that would be a ludicrous decision.
Utterly ridiculous. We can all then blame Sexton
Happy to direct my online hate at Sexton, but quite like Farrel
It’s odd all right, but it’s exactly - EXACTLY- what happened with Hogg on the last tour. In the eyes of some, a Scotland player simply isn’t allowed to be the best in his position. There was a hate campaign against Hogg as well. It didn’t work at first, but probably did eventually when he was dropped for the third Test. (Edit - I’m talking solely about Hogg as a player here. It goes without saying, in the light of subsequent events, that he is an awful person).
Similarly - and I’ll get shit for this, but hey ho - I expect that the only Scotland players picked in the squad today will be the ones who everyone expects to be in or around the Test 23. Scotland don’t get fringe or squad players selected. It’s a hangover from the 3 or 4 tours when we had hardly anyone good enough to tour. Either you make it impossible for the manager to leave you out, or they will.
This sounds bitter, but it isn’t really. I’ve come to accept it. The players who really deserved to tour last time did, and it will mostly be the same this time. And the tour is mostly about the Tests now. The role of the dirt trackers is much less than it used to be.
A mate cmon, get the tiny wee violin out , Scotland have has just as much dross as England Billy36 style test no hopers picked , as anyone else.
Teapot Peter wright top of the pyramid for lions joirneymanship.
This tour should really be one of scotlands largest contingent ever. Agree totally that dirtrackers role has diminished since 97, because the modern era just has much shorter tours as it’s all about the £€$
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying we’ve never had dodgy picks on a Lions tour. The 1993 tour is a case in point (Wright, yes, but also Burnell, Cronin and Andy Reed). But I don’t think we’ve had one since 2001. The closest I can find was Allan Dell in 2019, and he was an injury replacement on a tour famous for having some dubious players called up as cover. And in 2021, the only Scot selected who didn’t end up with at least one Test cap was Zander Fagerson, and I doubt anyone would argue he wasn’t picked on merit.
I just think that a Scotland player has to be enough of a standout to be in obvious Test contention in order to get picked. This is why I doubt Jamie Ritchie will be picked this time, and I rate Darcy Graham’s chances at no better than 50:50. But I’m not asking for sympathy. I was angry when players who really should have been picked weren’t (Chris Paterson the worst one wronged, but Jason White was only an injury replacement too). That didn’t happen last time and I don’t think it will this time either. I can live with that.
We all going to be pro our own country , recent crazy omission from our side was Jonny May who was a victim of st the time anti English bias as aside from from crap scrummaging, had been the form winger with some lethal tries even in some pretty crap England performances (those two solos against France for example).
But I just don’t see your ‘if they ain’t test quality they ain’t picked full stop’ thing, it may be just as you such Scotland has had 2 decades of mostly utter shit. Test teams can and do change, not just because of injury, I’d have more faith in your jocks tbh as at times recently they have been excellent.
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 12:04 pm
by Punter15
There will be a lot of marginal calls, and ones where Papa Faz just has a different view to Borthers etc., but what selection would truly make you go. 'What the actual fuck?'
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 12:19 pm
by Slick
Punter15 wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 12:04 pm
There will be a lot of marginal calls, and ones where Papa Faz just has a different view to Borthers etc., but what selection would truly make you go. 'What the actual fuck?'
A mate cmon, get the tiny wee violin out , Scotland have has just as much dross as England Billy36 style test no hopers picked , as anyone else.
Teapot Peter wright top of the pyramid for lions joirneymanship.
This tour should really be one of scotlands largest contingent ever. Agree totally that dirtrackers role has diminished since 97, because the modern era just has much shorter tours as it’s all about the £€$
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying we’ve never had dodgy picks on a Lions tour. The 1993 tour is a case in point (Wright, yes, but also Burnell, Cronin and Andy Reed). But I don’t think we’ve had one since 2001. The closest I can find was Allan Dell in 2019, and he was an injury replacement on a tour famous for having some dubious players called up as cover. And in 2021, the only Scot selected who didn’t end up with at least one Test cap was Zander Fagerson, and I doubt anyone would argue he wasn’t picked on merit.
I just think that a Scotland player has to be enough of a standout to be in obvious Test contention in order to get picked. This is why I doubt Jamie Ritchie will be picked this time, and I rate Darcy Graham’s chances at no better than 50:50. But I’m not asking for sympathy. I was angry when players who really should have been picked weren’t (Chris Paterson the worst one wronged, but Jason White was only an injury replacement too). That didn’t happen last time and I don’t think it will this time either. I can live with that.
We all going to be pro our own country , recent crazy omission from our side was Jonny May who was a victim of st the time anti English bias as aside from from crap scrummaging, had been the form winger with some lethal tries even in some pretty crap England performances (those two solos against France for example).
But I just don’t see your ‘if they ain’t test quality they ain’t picked full stop’ thing, it may be just as you such Scotland has had 2 decades of mostly utter shit. Test teams can and do change, not just because of injury, I’d have more faith in your jocks tbh as at times recently they have been excellent.
Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 11:50 am
Discussion was ‘hate campaign’, as you know is coming for the man, rather than the justified question as to whether he should be on the tour
Think we can all agree that's just shitty
Yep. I’m a big admirer of the guy but can’t see how he tours. Hope his wife etc avoid social media
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 12:23 pm
by Sandstorm
Punter15 wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 12:04 pm
There will be a lot of marginal calls, and ones where Papa Faz just has a different view to Borthers etc., but what selection would truly make you go. 'What the actual fuck?'
Slick wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 9:17 am
I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.
I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.
It’s odd all right, but it’s exactly - EXACTLY- what happened with Hogg on the last tour. In the eyes of some, a Scotland player simply isn’t allowed to be the best in his position. There was a hate campaign against Hogg as well. It didn’t work at first, but probably did eventually when he was dropped for the third Test. (Edit - I’m talking solely about Hogg as a player here. It goes without saying, in the light of subsequent events, that he is an awful person).
Similarly - and I’ll get shit for this, but hey ho - I expect that the only Scotland players picked in the squad today will be the ones who everyone expects to be in or around the Test 23. Scotland don’t get fringe or squad players selected. It’s a hangover from the 3 or 4 tours when we had hardly anyone good enough to tour. Either you make it impossible for the manager to leave you out, or they will.
This sounds bitter, but it isn’t really. I’ve come to accept it. The players who really deserved to tour last time did, and it will mostly be the same this time. And the tour is mostly about the Tests now. The role of the dirt trackers is much less than it used to be.
Can't agree with that. Hogg had the chance to nail the position down and was rightfully dropped for the last test. He was an experienced senior player at that stage but his performances didn't back that up.
Well, I’m not going to argue with you. I don’t recall it that way though. My recollection was that Hogg was made responsible for a bad team performance in the second Test as a whole. Don’t recall anything in particular he did wrong.To be fair, the game the Lions played didn’t play to his strengths as a player (it was the same for Duhan - I don’t recall him ever getting to run at a defence from broken play)
Slick wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 9:17 am
I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.
I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.
It’s odd all right, but it’s exactly - EXACTLY- what happened with Hogg on the last tour. In the eyes of some, a Scotland player simply isn’t allowed to be the best in his position. There was a hate campaign against Hogg as well. It didn’t work at first, but probably did eventually when he was dropped for the third Test. (Edit - I’m talking solely about Hogg as a player here. It goes without saying, in the light of subsequent events, that he is an awful person).
Similarly - and I’ll get shit for this, but hey ho - I expect that the only Scotland players picked in the squad today will be the ones who everyone expects to be in or around the Test 23. Scotland don’t get fringe or squad players selected. It’s a hangover from the 3 or 4 tours when we had hardly anyone good enough to tour. Either you make it impossible for the manager to leave you out, or they will.
This sounds bitter, but it isn’t really. I’ve come to accept it. The players who really deserved to tour last time did, and it will mostly be the same this time. And the tour is mostly about the Tests now. The role of the dirt trackers is much less than it used to be.
I suspect what you might have viewed as a hate campaign was mostly people not agreeing that he was definitively the best option. Not a hard position to take when Anthony Watson was also on tour.
It wasn’t Watson the pundits wanted him dropped for though - it was Liam Williams. The justification that was aired frequently was Hogg’s fielding of high balls. If memory serves (and it might not here, to be fair) Williams then played the third test and promptly dropped more high balls than Hogg had.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying we’ve never had dodgy picks on a Lions tour. The 1993 tour is a case in point (Wright, yes, but also Burnell, Cronin and Andy Reed). But I don’t think we’ve had one since 2001. The closest I can find was Allan Dell in 2019, and he was an injury replacement on a tour famous for having some dubious players called up as cover. And in 2021, the only Scot selected who didn’t end up with at least one Test cap was Zander Fagerson, and I doubt anyone would argue he wasn’t picked on merit.
I just think that a Scotland player has to be enough of a standout to be in obvious Test contention in order to get picked. This is why I doubt Jamie Ritchie will be picked this time, and I rate Darcy Graham’s chances at no better than 50:50. But I’m not asking for sympathy. I was angry when players who really should have been picked weren’t (Chris Paterson the worst one wronged, but Jason White was only an injury replacement too). That didn’t happen last time and I don’t think it will this time either. I can live with that.
We all going to be pro our own country , recent crazy omission from our side was Jonny May who was a victim of st the time anti English bias as aside from from crap scrummaging, had been the form winger with some lethal tries even in some pretty crap England performances (those two solos against France for example).
But I just don’t see your ‘if they ain’t test quality they ain’t picked full stop’ thing, it may be just as you such Scotland has had 2 decades of mostly utter shit. Test teams can and do change, not just because of injury, I’d have more faith in your jocks tbh as at times recently they have been excellent.
No bias here, Jonny May was not very good.
Pffft, he was a better wing than Seymour & nowell & Daly who went in 2017 and now worse than any of the 2021 ones. Recall a thread where emojies avatars things were made of possible lions players and his one was Maaaaaaaaaayyyy because he was blurred he was so fast. Take off your Mcewans tinted glasses with your Celtic dross
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 12:37 pm
by Hal Jordan
Gatland picking a bunch of Welsh nobodies as injury replacements was pretty terrible.
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 12:44 pm
by Sandstorm
Hal Jordan wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 12:37 pm
Gatland picking a bunch of Welsh nobodies as injury replacements was pretty terrible.
This
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 1:04 pm
by clydecloggie
Ah, the Qatar Airways Lions and a mural commissioned by Howden. It really is beyond shameless.
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 1:07 pm
by Begbie
This is brutal. Just get on with it.
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 1:11 pm
by C T
This is slowly eating away at my soul.
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 1:12 pm
by Insane_Homer
Farking get on with it already!
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 1:18 pm
by Punter15
At least we’ve already had the worst selection possible in Ugo picked to present.
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 1:18 pm
by assfly
Is he the first Lions captain to wear an earing?
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 1:20 pm
by Slick
assfly wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 1:18 pm
Is he the first Lions captain to wear an earing?
assfly wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 1:18 pm
Is he the first Lions captain to wear an earing?
WTF
Good for him. I guess
He’d better take it out to play. Or at least tape it heavily. I’ve seen what happens if you don’t (both ear and nipple rings) and it’s… messy.
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 1:22 pm
by clydecloggie
A phone call with no signal and a Captains' dinner in a dark dodgy conference centre room. So far this is the rugby version of Spinal Tap.
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 1:22 pm
by Slick
Great bloke, not terribly inspiring
Re: B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread
Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 1:22 pm
by Slick
clydecloggie wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 1:22 pm
A phone call with no signal and a Captains' dinner in a dark dodgy conference centre room. So far this is the rugby version of Spinal Tap.
