The Official F1 Thread

[MoreOrLess]

Hopefully the Stewards will publish their judgement on Bottas. Presumably he stopped before his box limit and the green light : he certainly didn’t gain an advantage. Great drive from Max and his front end mechanics

It's very clear that he stopped, which was part of his problem- he was stopping just as everyone else was getting going

That said, there were some other weird things - he got going (slowly) but then appeared to bog down, as if ge'd jumped 1-2 gears and was simpley out of torque.

The whole affair was very odd.

I tjink my only other thought on Bottas, is that having done a supreme job in chasing Max down, he frankly didn't actually try to effect a pass. Can you imagine Hamilton, Verstappen, or even Vettel in that scenario? They would have at least stuck a nose in and see if they could provoke a mistake

I have never seen Bottas as a true racer and yesterday was a good example of that. Max, on the other hand, is already one of the best; his second place was a huge achievement.

Bottas never really seems to have the overtakes in him. Unless they are just mismatches in power where he can drive past people....largely how he got himself back to 3rd yesterday.

Monza last year was pretty similar. Chasing Leclerc for 10 or 11 laps, blows his 1st good opportunity by locking up into T1 and never looks likely after that.

I think that was the first time leclerc had been under serious pressure as well e.g. Getting chased by the a merc, without vettel to help, going for b2b wins, 1st ferrari win at monza for years etc etc. Verstappen is a so good he could defend against bottas with his eyes closed.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Hopefully the Stewards will publish their judgement on Bottas. Presumably he stopped before his box limit and the green light : he certainly didn’t gain an advantage. Great drive from Max and his front end mechanics

It's very clear that he stopped, which was part of his problem- he was stopping just as everyone else was getting going

That said, there were some other weird things - he got going (slowly) but then appeared to bog down, as if ge'd jumped 1-2 gears and was simpley out of torque.

The whole affair was very odd.

I tjink my only other thought on Bottas, is that having done a supreme job in chasing Max down, he frankly didn't actually try to effect a pass. Can you imagine Hamilton, Verstappen, or even Vettel in that scenario? They would have at least stuck a nose in and see if they could provoke a mistake

Do remember this is Hungary. He only got within DRS range going in to the final lap. Apart from the DRS zones there are very few overtaking opportunities.

Maybe if Hamilton had been in the same position he would have made up the deficit a couple of laps earlier and given himself a better chance.

[Saint]

Hopefully the Stewards will publish their judgement on Bottas. Presumably he stopped before his box limit and the green light : he certainly didn’t gain an advantage. Great drive from Max and his front end mechanics

It's very clear that he stopped, which was part of his problem- he was stopping just as everyone else was getting going

That said, there were some other weird things - he got going (slowly) but then appeared to bog down, as if ge'd jumped 1-2 gears and was simpley out of torque.

The whole affair was very odd.

I tjink my only other thought on Bottas, is that having done a supreme job in chasing Max down, he frankly didn't actually try to effect a pass. Can you imagine Hamilton, Verstappen, or even Vettel in that scenario? They would have at least stuck a nose in and see if they could provoke a mistake

Do remember this is Hungary. He only got within DRS range going in to the final lap. Apart from the DRS zones there are very few overtaking opportunities.

Maybe if Hamilton had been in the same position he would have made up the deficit a couple of laps earlier and given himself a better chance.

I know it;s Hungary - but Bottas didn't even appear to actually try and stick his nose in. He just got onto Verstappen's gearbox and decided to just sit there

[Saint]

Hopefully the Stewards will publish their judgement on Bottas. Presumably he stopped before his box limit and the green light : he certainly didn’t gain an advantage. Great drive from Max and his front end mechanics

So it turns out it was nothing to do with the Stewards. There's a sensor mounted to each car which has a tolerance for time/distance which is the only thing I the spring regulations that can be used to judge a false start. That didn't trigger, so there was no way to implement any penalty

[fishfoodie]

Hopefully the Stewards will publish their judgement on Bottas. Presumably he stopped before his box limit and the green light : he certainly didn’t gain an advantage. Great drive from Max and his front end mechanics

So it turns out it was nothing to do with the Stewards. There's a sensor mounted to each car which has a tolerance for time/distance which is the only thing I the spring regulations that can be used to judge a false start. That didn't trigger, so there was no way to implement any penalty

that's fecking nuts.

last week the Stewards were embarrassed into handing Hamilton a penalty; when they'd previously said he shouldn't get one; only for RB to show them onboard footage showing Hamilton deserved a penalty. So the Stewards had made a decision without even reviewing the most important evidence.

And this week again; they have clear cut evidence showing a penalty should be applied; by their own rule definitions; but they're exonerating Bottas, because the sensor they have didn't trigger; even thought, again, they have clear cut video evidence of the offense.

Shower of bloody clowns !

"I see no ships !"

[Sandstorm]

Time to remove these ex-racer stewards and put in some coppers or judges with zero racing experience, but some good eyesight.

“It’s just a racing incident”
“ the sensor didn’t trigger”

piss off

[fishfoodie]

Time to remove these ex-racer stewards and put in some coppers or judges with zero racing experience, but some good eyesight.

“It’s just a racing incident”
“ the sensor didn’t trigger”

piss off

They can keep the ex-drivers for the on-track collision stuff; but the black & white stuff, like this; or all four wheels over the track limits, is clear as crystal.

There are loads of infractions like, rejoining the track, or cutting corners, or unsafe release, speeding in the pit lane; where you don't need a driver; as you say, any gobshite can make the judgement; preferably without any car colour, or former teammate prejudice playing a part.

[Edit] And for the conspiracy theorists out there; isn't it a fantastic coincidence that Bottas had a light go out on his dash at the exact moment where if he released the clutch, he could, jump the start, & not be so fast that he would get pinged ?

[Saint]

Hopefully the Stewards will publish their judgement on Bottas. Presumably he stopped before his box limit and the green light : he certainly didn’t gain an advantage. Great drive from Max and his front end mechanics

So it turns out it was nothing to do with the Stewards. There's a sensor mounted to each car which has a tolerance for time/distance which is the only thing I the spring regulations that can be used to judge a false start. That didn't trigger, so there was no way to implement any penalty

that's fecking nuts.

last week the Stewards were embarrassed into handing Hamilton a penalty; when they'd previously said he shouldn't get one; only for RB to show them onboard footage showing Hamilton deserved a penalty. So the Stewards had made a decision without even reviewing the most important evidence.

And this week again; they have clear cut evidence showing a penalty should be applied; by their own rule definitions; but they're exonerating Bottas, because the sensor they have didn't trigger; even thought, again, they have clear cut video evidence of the offense.

Shower of bloody clowns !

"I see no ships !"

The problem is that it's explicitly written into the regs. If the sensor triggers, then it's a false start. If it doesn't then it isn't. There's no room for anything else when it's written like that

[fishfoodie]

So it turns out it was nothing to do with the Stewards. There's a sensor mounted to each car which has a tolerance for time/distance which is the only thing I the spring regulations that can be used to judge a false start. That didn't trigger, so there was no way to implement any penalty

that's fecking nuts.

last week the Stewards were embarrassed into handing Hamilton a penalty; when they'd previously said he shouldn't get one; only for RB to show them onboard footage showing Hamilton deserved a penalty. So the Stewards had made a decision without even reviewing the most important evidence.

And this week again; they have clear cut evidence showing a penalty should be applied; by their own rule definitions; but they're exonerating Bottas, because the sensor they have didn't trigger; even thought, again, they have clear cut video evidence of the offense.

Shower of bloody clowns !

"I see no ships !"

The problem is that it's explicitly written into the regs. If the sensor triggers, then it's a false start. If it doesn't then it isn't. There's no room for anything else when it's written like that

So, on the one hand if a team doesn't like the look of brake duct on a car; even though the FIA has already approved it; they will investigate; but on the other; their rule clearly says you don't move before the lights go out, & they have video evidence, as well as their own eyes, & a complaint from another team; they scratch their holes, & do nothing ?

I know F1 is built on a strong foundation of cheating; but letting drivers away with jumping starts is crackers.

[Saint]

that's fecking nuts.

last week the Stewards were embarrassed into handing Hamilton a penalty; when they'd previously said he shouldn't get one; only for RB to show them onboard footage showing Hamilton deserved a penalty. So the Stewards had made a decision without even reviewing the most important evidence.

And this week again; they have clear cut evidence showing a penalty should be applied; by their own rule definitions; but they're exonerating Bottas, because the sensor they have didn't trigger; even thought, again, they have clear cut video evidence of the offense.

Shower of bloody clowns !

"I see no ships !"

The problem is that it's explicitly written into the regs. If the sensor triggers, then it's a false start. If it doesn't then it isn't. There's no room for anything else when it's written like that

So, on the one hand if a team doesn't like the look of brake duct on a car; even though the FIA has already approved it; they will investigate; but on the other; their rule clearly says you don't move before the lights go out, & they have video evidence, as well as their own eyes, & a complaint from another team; they scratch their holes, & do nothing ?

I know F1 is built on a strong foundation of cheating; but letting drivers away with jumping starts is crackers.

The brake duct issue is far more complex than people are making it out. Due to the way the rules have changed from last season to this, there's a real possibility that it could be identical to last year's Merc and still be legal. Racing Point need to show their workings

Re Bottas, I get what you're saying but the one indisputable fact is the Bottas screwed himself trying to avoid the false start. He would have been much better off keeping the car rolling and taking as much as a 20 second penalty

[fishfoodie]

The brake duct issue is far more complex than people are making it out. Due to the way the rules have changed from last season to this, there's a real possibility that it could be identical to last year's Merc and still be legal. Racing Point need to show their workings

I agree, but the point is that when they want to; the FIA are perfectly happy to follow up on an potential rules violation; & that's off track.

Re Bottas, I get what you're saying but the one indisputable fact is the Bottas screwed himself trying to avoid the false start. He would have been much better off keeping the car rolling and taking as much as a 20 second penalty

Not sure I agree with that; at the least, he was facing a drive thru only 5 laps into the race (potentially with a stop-go too); that would have dropped him to the back of the race; & he could have been doubly stuffed; as everyone was coming in for new rubber, & he might have had to waste another lap to get the drive-thru out of the way.

[Saint]

Re Bottas, I get what you're saying but the one indisputable fact is the Bottas screwed himself trying to avoid the false start. He would have been much better off keeping the car rolling and taking as much as a 20 second penalty

Not sure I agree with that; at the least, he was facing a drive thru only 5 laps into the race (potentially with a stop-go too); that would have dropped him to the back of the race; & he could have been doubly stuffed; as everyone was coming in for new rubber, & he might have had to waste another lap to get the drive-thru out of the way.
[/quote]

Any drive thru that might have been awarded would have been taken as part of a pit stop, unless it was a stop go. The sporting regulations give leeway in that circumstance, but the reality is it would have probably been 5 seconds, maybe 10, but not a stop go. Given that he would probably have got through the first pit stop before it was even awarded, then he would have had 5-10 seconds stationary when he hit his second pit stop. At that point he would have been 2nd going in, and 2nd going out


Whereas what happened I real-life was that he spent the next 15 laps fighting past drivers, and was 20 seconds down before he even started to think about getting into the front2

[Un Pilier]

So it turns out it was nothing to do with the Stewards. There's a sensor mounted to each car which has a tolerance for time/distance which is the only thing I the spring regulations that can be used to judge a false start. That didn't trigger, so there was no way to implement any penalty

that's fecking nuts.

last week the Stewards were embarrassed into handing Hamilton a penalty; when they'd previously said he shouldn't get one; only for RB to show them onboard footage showing Hamilton deserved a penalty. So the Stewards had made a decision without even reviewing the most important evidence.

And this week again; they have clear cut evidence showing a penalty should be applied; by their own rule definitions; but they're exonerating Bottas, because the sensor they have didn't trigger; even thought, again, they have clear cut video evidence of the offense.

Shower of bloody clowns !

"I see no ships !"

The problem is that it's explicitly written into the regs. If the sensor triggers, then it's a false start. If it doesn't then it isn't. There's no room for anything else when it's written like that

It’s unequivocal, as it should be imo. The regulation is as follows.

36.14 Any of the penalties under Articles 38.3 a), b), or c) will be imposed on any driver who is judged to have:
a) Moved before the start signal is given, such judgement being made by an FIA approved and supplied transponder fitted to each car, or;
b) Positioned his car on the starting grid in such a way that the transponder is unable to detect the moment at which the car first moved from its grid position after the start signal is given.

I’m not sure if we are likely to learn why the transponder didn’t trigger. Maybe the movement wasn’t sufficient to trigger it? Maybe because Bottas had stopped before the final light? A combination of both or maybe a fault within the transponder?

However , it appears the rules were observed and no subjective judgements were made. Given that Bottas suffered badly as a result of the incident I’m not sure why people seem to want him penalised.

[Saint]

that's fecking nuts.

last week the Stewards were embarrassed into handing Hamilton a penalty; when they'd previously said he shouldn't get one; only for RB to show them onboard footage showing Hamilton deserved a penalty. So the Stewards had made a decision without even reviewing the most important evidence.

And this week again; they have clear cut evidence showing a penalty should be applied; by their own rule definitions; but they're exonerating Bottas, because the sensor they have didn't trigger; even thought, again, they have clear cut video evidence of the offense.

Shower of bloody clowns !

"I see no ships !"

The problem is that it's explicitly written into the regs. If the sensor triggers, then it's a false start. If it doesn't then it isn't. There's no room for anything else when it's written like that

It’s unequivocal, as it should be imo. The regulation is as follows.

36.14 Any of the penalties under Articles 38.3 a), b), or c) will be imposed on any driver who is judged to have:
a) Moved before the start signal is given, such judgement being made by an FIA approved and supplied transponder fitted to each car, or;
b) Positioned his car on the starting grid in such a way that the transponder is unable to detect the moment at which the car first moved from its grid position after the start signal is given.

I’m not sure if we are likely to learn why the transponder didn’t trigger. Maybe the movement wasn’t sufficient to trigger it? Maybe because Bottas had stopped before the final light? A combination of both or maybe a fault within the transponder?

However , it appears the rules were observed and no subjective judgements were made. Given that Bottas suffered badly as a result of the incident I’m not sure why people seem to want him penalised.

The FIA appear quite happy that it was within tolerance. Apparently one of the teams queried it with the race director during the race, were told this, and were also quite happy.

[Saint]

Ross Brawn's thoughts on brake ducts

Last year, Racing Point had access to, and could use, 2019-spec Mercedes brake ducts because they were not a listed part. This year, brake ducts are listed parts, so you have to design your own.

However, Racing Point cannot forget the knowledge they acquired using the 2019 Mercedes brake ducts. I think it is illogical to think they can wipe their memory banks. It is a tricky problem and one for the FIA experts to resolve.

[Saint]

Three more GPs added to the schedule - Nurburgring (9th-11th Oct), Portimao (23rd-25th Oct), and Imola (31st Oct-1st Nov).

It;s 24 years since there's been a Portugeuse Grand Prix, and Portimao has only ever been used by F1 as a test track. Should make for a good event - the track is unusually wide, there's a long straight, some really tight corners, and lots of vertical change. Will make for some tricky setup calls

[Bimbowomxn]

Three more GPs added to the schedule - Nurburgring (9th-11th Oct), Portimao (23rd-25th Oct), and Imola (31st Oct-1st Nov).

It;s 24 years since there's been a Portugeuse Grand Prix, and Portimao has only ever been used by F1 as a test track. Should make for a good event - the track is unusually wide, there's a long straight, some really tight corners, and lots of vertical change. Will make for some tricky setup calls

Well that’s rather fabulous news.

[Un Pilier]

Three more GPs added to the schedule - Nurburgring (9th-11th Oct), Portimao (23rd-25th Oct), and Imola (31st Oct-1st Nov).

It;s 24 years since there's been a Portugeuse Grand Prix, and Portimao has only ever been used by F1 as a test track. Should make for a good event - the track is unusually wide, there's a long straight, some really tight corners, and lots of vertical change. Will make for some tricky setup calls

Well that’s rather fabulous news.

Seen bikes on it. Should be good.

[Sandstorm]

Go F1 2020. Could turn out to be really, really good!

[Bimbowomxn]

Three more GPs added to the schedule - Nurburgring (9th-11th Oct), Portimao (23rd-25th Oct), and Imola (31st Oct-1st Nov).

It;s 24 years since there's been a Portugeuse Grand Prix, and Portimao has only ever been used by F1 as a test track. Should make for a good event - the track is unusually wide, there's a long straight, some really tight corners, and lots of vertical change. Will make for some tricky setup calls

Well that’s rather fabulous news.

Seen bikes on it. Should be good.

A good friend raced Porto Mao last year ...... only seen his on boards but it strikes as wonderful.

[Sandstorm]

If you fancy some live racing, on Sky Channel 406 is GT World Champs from Imola starting now. The Bentley Conti looks like an absolute beast!!

[tcc_dc]

Not surprising...no Americas races this year per F1

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/2952 ... ricas-year

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Sterling work by one leading driver to promote the anti-vax movement, the sport will be just thrilled to have attention deflected from its return, and in a manner which is so clearly anti science

[fishfoodie]

Sterling work by one leading driver to promote the anti-vax movement, the sport will be just thrilled to have attention deflected from its return, and in a manner which is so clearly anti science

He's not the first sportsman to show that he's really not terribly bright.

Social media is a fucking curse though; if it wasn't for it, no one would know or care; & they wouldn't cluelessly regurgitate this crap.

[Saint]

Sterling work by one leading driver to promote the anti-vax movement, the sport will be just thrilled to have attention deflected from its return, and in a manner which is so clearly anti science

He's not the first sportsman to show that he's really not terribly bright.

Social media is a fucking curse though; if it wasn't for it, no one would know or care; & they wouldn't cluelessly regurgitate this crap.

Considering the effort he's putting into BLM he's probably mortified he screwed up like this and took the attention away from where he's trying to focus

[Slick]

Sterling work by one leading driver to promote the anti-vax movement, the sport will be just thrilled to have attention deflected from its return, and in a manner which is so clearly anti science

He's not the first sportsman to show that he's really not terribly bright.

Social media is a fucking curse though; if it wasn't for it, no one would know or care; & they wouldn't cluelessly regurgitate this crap.

Considering the effort he's putting into BLM he's probably mortified he screwed up like this and took the attention away from where he's trying to focus

I think you are being quite generous there. I'm not taking anything away from the great work he is doing on racism but his apology smacks of sorry/not sorry. Respect for Gates' charity work is not exactly a ringing endorsement. "Uncertainty around side effects and funding" - really? has he really studied this? Or has he just watched a couple of fruit loop videos?

Looks more to me like he knew what he was posting and is now in damage limitation.

[Un Pilier]

Yeah, I think Lewis is in danger of overplaying his hand. He would be far better focussing on issues where he has respect and credibility. He’s achieving a lot in regard to diversity in F1 and racism - I fear he risks undermining that by spreading garbage like this.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

He's not the first sportsman to show that he's really not terribly bright.

Social media is a fucking curse though; if it wasn't for it, no one would know or care; & they wouldn't cluelessly regurgitate this crap.

Considering the effort he's putting into BLM he's probably mortified he screwed up like this and took the attention away from where he's trying to focus

I think you are being quite generous there. I'm not taking anything away from the great work he is doing on racism but his apology smacks of sorry/not sorry. Respect for Gates' charity work is not exactly a ringing endorsement. "Uncertainty around side effects and funding" - really? has he really studied this? Or has he just watched a couple of fruit loop videos?

Looks more to me like he knew what he was posting and is now in damage limitation.

On the BLM work his team were very clear he knew he had to have an answer to how a rich person running out of the country to avoid paying taxes helps those in the lower socioeconomic groups, they haven't yet let us know what his answer to that is. It's good that he cares, it's good he's looking for ways to be involved, but his engagements are ham fisted at best

[Saint]

There's been some interesting analysis done on the performance of other teams relative to Mercedes. It tyrns out that Mercedes haven't actually made a huge stride on the rest of the field - other than the Ferrari engined cars, the midfield is on average a decent amount closer to them than last season (around 0.2-0.3 seconds a lap).

The bigger problem is that Red Bull and Ferrari have really dropped back into the pack.

Ferrari gave a severe power deficit with a car that's inherently draggy. It's actually one if the fastest round the corners this year, indicating good aero design, but last year it dominated the speed traps and this year it's nowhere. Nothing to do with FIA directives I'm sure

Red Bull appear to have reached the limits of their concept inside the current rules. The car is incredibly sensitive aero-wise, and can switch between understeer and oversteer in two consecutive corners. The low rake cars under the current regs appear far less susceptible to these kind of aero issues, which appear to relate to the simplified endplates on the front wings

[Saint]

Perez out for the weekend with a positive Coronavirus test. Tracing Point yet to confirm the replacement driver

Free Practice tomorrow is already effectively a write-off with ambient temps expected to be 10 degrees above Saturday/Sunday - track temps could be more than 20 degrees out.

So car setup will realistically all be down to FP3 on Saturdaymorning

[Un Pilier]

Perez out for the weekend with a positive Coronavirus test. Tracing Point yet to confirm the replacement driver

Free Practice tomorrow is already effectively a write-off with ambient temps expected to be 10 degrees above Saturday/Sunday - track temps could be more than 20 degrees out.

So car setup will realistically all be down to FP3 on Saturdaymorning

Yes, it’s going to be a scorcher!
As for Perez I would guess that his bubble within the team might be quarantined (unless he has had no contact with them for long enough) but TP sound clear they are going to run two cars. My money is on The Hulk. Don’t think Gutierrez is current enough and Vandorn is off doing Formula E.

[Saint]

Perez out for the weekend with a positive Coronavirus test. Tracing Point yet to confirm the replacement driver

Free Practice tomorrow is already effectively a write-off with ambient temps expected to be 10 degrees above Saturday/Sunday - track temps could be more than 20 degrees out.

So car setup will realistically all be down to FP3 on Saturdaymorning

Yes, it’s going to be a scorcher!
As for Perez I would guess that his bubble within the team might be quarantined (unless he has had no contact with them for long enough) but TP sound clear they are going to run two cars. My money is on The Hulk. Don’t think Gutierrez is current enough and Vandorn is off doing Formula E.

Apparently perez tested positive before reaching the track and only 3 others are quarantining. Agree with you on Hulk - he would be the massive front runner - but not confirmed yet AFAIK

[Sandstorm]

Free Practice tomorrow is already effectively a write-off with ambient temps expected to be 10 degrees above Saturday/Sunday - track temps could be more than 20 degrees out.

So car setup will realistically all be down to FP3 on Saturdaymorning

Pfft. Just crank down the front wing end-plate by 2 degrees, drop tyre pressures by .75bar at the rear and put some ice chips in the driver's drink bottle. Then get out the sunscreen and relax.

These F1 teams are just a bunch of prima donnas!

[Saint]

Hulk confirmed for the two Silverstone races subject to a negative covid test - which hasn't come through yet. He can't enter the paddock without one

[Slick]

Are these live on C4?

[Sandstorm]

Are these live on C4?

Race 1 this weekend is for sure. Dunno about #2 yet.

[Saint]

Are these live on C4?

Race 1 this weekend is for sure. Dunno about #2 yet.

Race 2 definitely isn't. It's not a British Grand Prix

[Slick]

Are these live on C4?

Race 1 this weekend is for sure. Dunno about #2 yet.

Race 2 definitely isn't. It's not a British Grand Prix

Thanks chaps.

Although Sandstorm was a little lazy not finding out.

[Saint]

Race 1 this weekend is for sure. Dunno about #2 yet.

Race 2 definitely isn't. It's not a British Grand Prix

Thanks chaps.

Although Sandstorm was a little lazy not finding out.

he was probably too busy dealing with other people's Google searchs

[Sandstorm]

You cut me deep, Slick