NPR

I posted this on the other place, as I expressed my concern at Leinster's players habit of contesting the referee's decisions all the time. I thought that the below behavior in particular was especially inappropriate. In that case, Jaco had awarded La Rochelle a scrum after Aldritt sneakily tapped the ball put of Gibson-Park's hand at a maul. Gibson-Park complained once, Jaco sent him away, and then he came back at it a second time and actually allowed himself to touch the ref, holding him by the shoulder, Italian mafia way:

EnergiseR2 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 1:40 pm Get off the stage. We had some key decisions go badly against us. Winning the match decisons. Fuck all people have moaned about them

Only the captain is entitled to talk to the ref.
Nobody should touch him.

Uggly and disrespectful.

That and the constant arm waving is a disgrace to Irish rugby. A shame Bourgarit on La Rochelle side did his bit of arm waving too, but otherwise the La Rochelle lads were well behaved in comparison.

I'm all for maintaining the referee's respect in rugby, and happy for refs to use their authority to do so.

But you can pick players in pretty much every team who push the mark at times. The Leinster focus is mostly due to the team performing so well throughout the year (bar the last month of the season). A bit petty, especially seeing they've lost finals 2 years in a row.

And we all get the irk for players like Sexton and POM, and scrumhalves are always mouthy. Nothing new there, all acknowledged, happy for refs to call them out on it.
To start picking on all/other Leinster players like VDF and Lowe is just very petty again.

I don't see enough of the URC teams to judge them, but in the 6N Ireland and Wales are far and away the worst culprits as teams for flapping arms, appealing and getting at the ref.

The longet it goes undealt with, the more other teams will start to emulate.

I don't know if anybody noticed Ala'latoa checking one of the La Rochelle players prostate at a maul.

Jim Lahey wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 12:47 pm

Biffer wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 12:43 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 11:14 am

The stamp on Dan Cole certainly didn't endear him to English fans. Worse still was the way many Irish supporters and pundits tried to defend him.

It's not as easy to hate Australia now that they're our bunnies. In the last decade we've played them 14 times and they've won twice.


On the trio of prick fly halves (Farrell, Biggar, Sexton), I don't really care if they're super nice off the field. On the pitch they regularly cross the line where competitiveness becomes being a dickhead. Worse still they seem toescape sanction where other players would at least be marched back for the same outbursts.

This is the thing with a certain type of Irish supporter- they'll never admit their guys were wrong. We're perfectly happy to hold our hands up to the times Hoggy was a bit of a dick, or to say Ritchie is a dirty bastard but he's our dirty bastard, but you hardly ever see an Irishman saying that about POM

Excuse me, but I have never deviated from my POM is karnt stance.

I may have been less vocal about it since he started playing well the last few seasons, but at his heights of making 2 tackles a game for 2-3 seasons, I was yelling it from the roof tops.

I'm more than happy to accept you as an exception, but you'll know what I mean from the reception you probably got from your fellow irishers.

Biffer wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 2:52 pm

Jim Lahey wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 12:47 pm

Biffer wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 12:43 pm

This is the thing with a certain type of Irish supporter- they'll never admit their guys were wrong. We're perfectly happy to hold our hands up to the times Hoggy was a bit of a dick, or to say Ritchie is a dirty bastard but he's our dirty bastard, but you hardly ever see an Irishman saying that about POM

Excuse me, but I have never deviated from my POM is karnt stance.

I may have been less vocal about it since he started playing well the last few seasons, but at his heights of making 2 tackles a game for 2-3 seasons, I was yelling it from the roof tops.

I'm more than happy to accept you as an exception, but you'll know what I mean from the reception you probably got from your fellow irishers.

Nah you definitely have that wrong - at least with regard to POM anyway. As Jim said, it's been relatively quiet the last 18 months or so with him because he's objectively been playing very well, but before that you had the Munster heads circling the wagons for him with everyone else out for his head. He's probably been the most divisive player amongst Irish fans (or maybe Murray - another who had been playing shite and is currently playing much better).


I should add, his elbow on Hogg was proper filth and he deserves Scots ire for it, but on the whole I don't think he's a dirty player, just spends too much energy looking angry and not enough time tackling/hitting rucks.

EnergiseR2 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:29 pm I think Biffer wants my all.time list of useless culchies and nordie cunts. Pull up a chair Biffer as this could go on. I'll start early

1. Jackie fucking Kyle

Wrong forum.
Willie, Winnie and Earl would have your hide for that.

EnergiseR2 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:29 pm I think Biffer wants my all.time list of useless culchies and nordie cunts. Pull up a chair Biffer as this could go on. I'll start early

1. Jackie fucking Kyle

See you guys are kind of proving my point. You'll admit to players being useless, but not to them being good AND dirty.

Biffer wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:48 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:29 pm I think Biffer wants my all.time list of useless culchies and nordie cunts. Pull up a chair Biffer as this could go on. I'll start early

1. Jackie fucking Kyle

See you guys are kind of proving my point. You'll admit to players being useless, but not to them being good AND dirty.

Jackie Kyle may very well have been a cunt, I wouldn't know.
But he doesn't look like he'd have been a thug in the Butch James / Jonny Sexton mould.

EnergiseR2 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:50 pm

Jim Lahey wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:42 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:29 pm I think Biffer wants my all.time list of useless culchies and nordie cunts. Pull up a chair Biffer as this could go on. I'll start early

1. Jackie fucking Kyle

Wrong forum.
Willie, Winnie and Earl would have your hide for that.

I'd 100% go with it. Say I had a great uncle who played him and said he had a soft inside. Was well know for hiding behind Mullen and uttering obscenities at the opposition

I do miss Willie reacting to any and every imagined slight against Ulster greats like Willie John, Blair Mayne or Davy Tweed.

Biffer wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:48 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:29 pm I think Biffer wants my all.time list of useless culchies and nordie cunts. Pull up a chair Biffer as this could go on. I'll start early

1. Jackie fucking Kyle

See you guys are kind of proving my point. You'll admit to players being useless, but not to them being good AND dirty.

Meh, there aren't too many players I'd call dirty full stop. Players do occasionally do dirty things (POM, Healy, Knee-slip), but I wouldn't go so far as to call them dirty.

Hogg has done a dirty thing or two but I wouldn't ever call him a dirty player. Even Liam Williams, who was a dirty little knacker in his youth, certainly isn't that any more.

I'd call Farrell dirty, but that's mainly for the lolz - I hold World Rugby's incompetence far more culpable for the state of the tackle and rucks than I would any player.

Callum Clarke was proper dirty. Dylan Hartley of course, but not in the same league as Clarke. Clohessy is the last Irish player I can think of that deserves to be in that company, unless I'm missing someone obvious!

PornDog wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 4:03 pm

Biffer wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:48 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:29 pm I think Biffer wants my all.time list of useless culchies and nordie cunts. Pull up a chair Biffer as this could go on. I'll start early

1. Jackie fucking Kyle

See you guys are kind of proving my point. You'll admit to players being useless, but not to them being good AND dirty.

Meh, there aren't too many players I'd call dirty full stop. Players do occasionally do dirty things (POM, Healy, Knee-slip), but I wouldn't go so far as to call them dirty.

Hogg has done a dirty thing or two but I wouldn't ever call him a dirty player. Even Liam Williams, who was a dirty little knacker in his youth, certainly isn't that any more.

I'd call Farrell dirty, but that's mainly for the lolz - I hold World Rugby's incompetence far more culpable for the state of the tackle and rucks than I would any player.

Callum Clarke was proper dirty. Dylan Hartley of course, but not in the same league as Clarke. Clohessy is the last Irish player I can think of that deserves to be in that company, unless I'm missing someone obvious!

Neil Best was a proper scummer. The type of scummer you'd 100% want in your team though

I enjoy a good Four Star Pizza as much as anyone but its a bit down market for Leinster as a kit sponsor shirley?

KPMG already blown their marketing budget for the next few years?

Pizza is shite food like Leinster.

Jim Lahey wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:55 pm

Biffer wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:48 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:29 pm I think Biffer wants my all.time list of useless culchies and nordie cunts. Pull up a chair Biffer as this could go on. I'll start early

1. Jackie fucking Kyle

See you guys are kind of proving my point. You'll admit to players being useless, but not to them being good AND dirty.

Jackie Kyle may very well have been a cunt, I wouldn't know.
But he doesn't look like he'd have been a thug in the Butch James / Jonny Sexton mould.

Butch was a thug. Sexton is just a whiny bitch.

EnergiseR2 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 6:54 pm It's a shit joke from a supporter of a team about to be gaped in South Africa. Stormers if you let me down you are on the list

I just saw a stat from the game that the Leinster 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 didn't give or receive a pass to each other the entire match. That's extraordinary.

Slick: "Wow, the Leinster backline didn't pass to each other at all"
EverReady, making it his mission to defend Leinster to the death while maintaining an ever decreasingly convincing facade of ironic detachment: "Yes, La Rochelle are really quite limited you see"

Slick wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:05 pm I just saw a stat from the game that the Leinster 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 didn't give or receive a pass to each other the entire match. That's extraordinary.

That can't be right, can it?

I've got the match recorded on tivo but not watched it through yet, for that stat to be true I can only assume they've got a seagulling backrower or two getting in the middle of things.

inactionman wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:16 pm

Slick wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:05 pm I just saw a stat from the game that the Leinster 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 didn't give or receive a pass to each other the entire match. That's extraordinary.

That can't be right, can it?

I've got the match recorded on tivo but not watched it through yet, for that stat to be true I can only assume they've got a seagulling backrower or two getting in the middle of things.

I checked with the guy who posted it and he said it was. I've no idea, also find it quite hard to believe tbh

Slick wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:28 pm

inactionman wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:16 pm

Slick wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:05 pm I just saw a stat from the game that the Leinster 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 didn't give or receive a pass to each other the entire match. That's extraordinary.

That can't be right, can it?

I've got the match recorded on tivo but not watched it through yet, for that stat to be true I can only assume they've got a seagulling backrower or two getting in the middle of things.

I checked with the guy who posted it and he said it was. I've no idea, also find it quite hard to believe tbh

The stat gave me the motivation to watch it again, I'm at half time and so far the stat is correct.

So far when Leinster get the ball they go to a forward pod to bosh it up or Byrne hoofs it into the Dublin sky. When they are in their own half it's JG-P to Lowe who biffs it downfield.

inactionman wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:16 pm

Slick wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:05 pm I just saw a stat from the game that the Leinster 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 didn't give or receive a pass to each other the entire match. That's extraordinary.

That can't be right, can it?

I've got the match recorded on tivo but not watched it through yet, for that stat to be true I can only assume they've got a seagulling backrower or two getting in the middle of things.

It probably is right. Ringrose and Henshaw have many strengths but passing isn't one of them. Like Ireland, they use the backrowers for midfield passing rather than the centres.

Add to that a weaker 10. The ball is never getting outside them!

EnergiseR2 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:11 pm

Slick wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:05 pm I just saw a stat from the game that the Leinster 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 didn't give or receive a pass to each other the entire match. That's extraordinary.

I'm not surprised. LAR are actually fairly limited a team as they were last year in terms of mostly being brawn. The kick them into their half as they make half arsed efforts to attack wasn't an awful idea if the kicking had been any good. It wasn't. I counted 8 awful kicks and was it two or three out on the full giving them the opportunity to roll over us. The startegy was not awful the execution was yuck

Leinster darling. It's Leinster we're talking about being limited.

Uncle fester wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 5:42 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:11 pm

Slick wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:05 pm I just saw a stat from the game that the Leinster 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 didn't give or receive a pass to each other the entire match. That's extraordinary.

I'm not surprised. LAR are actually fairly limited a team as they were last year in terms of mostly being brawn. The kick them into their half as they make half arsed efforts to attack wasn't an awful idea if the kicking had been any good. It wasn't. I counted 8 awful kicks and was it two or three out on the full giving them the opportunity to roll over us. The startegy was not awful the execution was yuck

Leinster darling. It's Leinster we're talking about being limited.

Well it played out right enough, no passes between the Leinster backs save 9 and 10.

Leinster came with nothing save a couple of snazzy lineout moves and got beaten soundly up front.

It wasn't as close as I thought it was on Saturday, only the rush out to the massive lead kept Leinster in it.

TBH I thought it was all over after 12 minutes but watching it again there was only going to be one winner after Leinster's third try.

EnergiseR2 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 6:08 pm It's coming Fester and it's going to be glorious. Sing with me NIKOSI SIKELEL' AFRIKA

We're just happy to be taking part and hope we don't make a show of ourselves.

Tichtheid wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 6:59 pm Well it played out right enough, no passes between the Leinster backs save 9 and 10.

Leinster came with nothing save a couple of snazzy lineout moves and got beaten soundly up front.

It wasn't as close as I thought it was on Saturday, only the rush out to the massive lead kept Leinster in it.

TBH I thought it was all over after 12 minutes but watching it again there was only going to be one winner after Leinster's third try.

I think that's hindsight talking a bit, there was no guarantee the French would stay in the fight or have the fitness to keep up with the intensity for long enough

JM2K6 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 8:27 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 6:59 pm Well it played out right enough, no passes between the Leinster backs save 9 and 10.

Leinster came with nothing save a couple of snazzy lineout moves and got beaten soundly up front.

It wasn't as close as I thought it was on Saturday, only the rush out to the massive lead kept Leinster in it.

TBH I thought it was all over after 12 minutes but watching it again there was only going to be one winner after Leinster's third try.

I think that's hindsight talking a bit, there was no guarantee the French would stay in the fight or have the fitness to keep up with the intensity for long enough

It's a clear eye without the emotion of the moment talking.

The momentum was pretty much all one way from minute 12 to minute 75.

Leinster could still have stolen it at the end before their prop got sent off, but it would have been against the run of play for the vast majority of the game.

JM2K6 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 8:27 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 6:59 pm Well it played out right enough, no passes between the Leinster backs save 9 and 10.

Leinster came with nothing save a couple of snazzy lineout moves and got beaten soundly up front.

It wasn't as close as I thought it was on Saturday, only the rush out to the massive lead kept Leinster in it.

TBH I thought it was all over after 12 minutes but watching it again there was only going to be one winner after Leinster's third try.

I think that's hindsight talking a bit, there was no guarantee the French would stay in the fight or have the fitness to keep up with the intensity for long enough

Well this fitness thing is getting rather old these days though.

Tichtheid wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 8:46 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 8:27 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 6:59 pm Well it played out right enough, no passes between the Leinster backs save 9 and 10.

Leinster came with nothing save a couple of snazzy lineout moves and got beaten soundly up front.

It wasn't as close as I thought it was on Saturday, only the rush out to the massive lead kept Leinster in it.

TBH I thought it was all over after 12 minutes but watching it again there was only going to be one winner after Leinster's third try.

I think that's hindsight talking a bit, there was no guarantee the French would stay in the fight or have the fitness to keep up with the intensity for long enough

It's a clear eye without the emotion of the moment talking.

The momentum was pretty much all one way from minute 12 to minute 75.

Leinster could still have stolen it at the end before their prop got sent off, but it would have been against the run of play for the vast majority of the game.

I think there's a big difference with watching that game knowing the comeback happens, and watching it well after the first 15 minutes when Leinster are still absolutely hammering the LaR runners back and letting them get nowhere near at the breakdown by hook or (primarily) by crook.

Can't imagine many people watched that live and thought halfway through the first half that LaR were the only winners

laurent wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 9:06 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 8:27 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 6:59 pm Well it played out right enough, no passes between the Leinster backs save 9 and 10.

Leinster came with nothing save a couple of snazzy lineout moves and got beaten soundly up front.

It wasn't as close as I thought it was on Saturday, only the rush out to the massive lead kept Leinster in it.

TBH I thought it was all over after 12 minutes but watching it again there was only going to be one winner after Leinster's third try.

I think that's hindsight talking a bit, there was no guarantee the French would stay in the fight or have the fitness to keep up with the intensity for long enough

Well this fitness thing is getting rather old these days though.

No slight intended. We've seen them gassed before and they had to dig deeper than they had all tournament. They're huge blokes having to play at a ridiculous intensity playing with a huge deficit. There's not a side on the planet where the fitness wouldn't be a doubt in that scenario.

JM2K6 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 9:32 pm

laurent wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 9:06 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 8:27 pm

I think that's hindsight talking a bit, there was no guarantee the French would stay in the fight or have the fitness to keep up with the intensity for long enough

Well this fitness thing is getting rather old these days though.

No slight intended. We've seen them gassed before and they had to dig deeper than they had all tournament. They're huge blokes having to play at a ridiculous intensity playing with a huge deficit. There's not a side on the planet where the fitness wouldn't be a doubt in that scenario.

Did not take it as a slight, anyone assuming that a team has fitness issues because they are French lives a few years in the past (or is Welsh ).

JM2K6 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 9:30 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 8:46 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 8:27 pm

I think that's hindsight talking a bit, there was no guarantee the French would stay in the fight or have the fitness to keep up with the intensity for long enough

It's a clear eye without the emotion of the moment talking.

The momentum was pretty much all one way from minute 12 to minute 75.

Leinster could still have stolen it at the end before their prop got sent off, but it would have been against the run of play for the vast majority of the game.

I think there's a big difference with watching that game knowing the comeback happens, and watching it well after the first 15 minutes when Leinster are still absolutely hammering the LaR runners back and letting them get nowhere near at the breakdown by hook or (primarily) by crook.

Can't imagine many people watched that live and thought halfway through the first half that LaR were the only winners

No one would have thought that La Rochelle were the only winners after 20 minutes when watching it live, but what I'm saying is that taking the jeopardy out of it by knowing the result, you can watch it and see where things turned.
Of course there is a bit of confirmation bias when you do this, you know the result, you know that La Rochelle have won this fixture two years in a row and are going for the third, you have read all the prematch stuff about power being the Leinster kryptonite, to be fair it's every team's kryptonite, and you know that the La Rochelle bench is stacked with quality players who are just as big and athletic as the starters - ok few are as big as Atonio, but his replacement Colombe is 1.93m and 135kg, which would be monstrous in any other team. The point being they can keep up the power game.

When you read through some of the stats, it's quite telling, overall LaR had 62% of the possession but it's what they did with it - 11 entries to the Leinster 22 scoring an average of 2.4 points per entry.
146 passes to Leinster's 73, 138 ball carries compared to 72, 292 post contact metres made compared to 134.
98 tackles made, 7 missed compared to Leinster's 189 tackles made with 24 missed.

I'm a big believer that rugby is all about momentum, what I read into those stats is that bar the first quarter of an hour the momentum was with La Rochelle. At 13 minutes the score was 17 - 0, by half time it was 23 -14.
Watching it live I thought it was very tense, these are two terrific sides and they played a stormer of a final, on a second watch by half time there was a degree of inevitability about the outcome, taking into account previous games and what was unfolding before us. "Only one winner" was probably an exaggeration on my part, to be honest on that second watch I was so impressed with La Rochelle's game plan and execution against the might of Leinster in Dublin that I probably overstated it, but it was a great performance from the French side.

Tichtheid wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 5:27 pm

Slick wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:28 pm

inactionman wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:16 pm

That can't be right, can it?

I've got the match recorded on tivo but not watched it through yet, for that stat to be true I can only assume they've got a seagulling backrower or two getting in the middle of things.

I checked with the guy who posted it and he said it was. I've no idea, also find it quite hard to believe tbh

The stat gave me the motivation to watch it again, I'm at half time and so far the stat is correct.

So far when Leinster get the ball they go to a forward pod to bosh it up or Byrne hoofs it into the Dublin sky. When they are in their own half it's JG-P to Lowe who biffs it downfield.

What the hell has our game become

Has Leinster got any trophies yet.

Sards wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 12:26 pm Has Leinster got any trophies yet.

Maybe next year.

The Irish players will have an advantage because their World Cup ends earlier so they have a longer prep period for URC/Heineken success next season.

clydecloggie wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 12:28 pm

Sards wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 12:26 pm Has Leinster got any trophies yet.

Maybe next year.

The Irish players will have an advantage because their World Cup ends earlier so they have a longer prep period for URC/Heineken success next season.

Hasn't worked for the Scots tbf.

Tichtheid wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 7:03 am third, you have read all the prematch stuff about power being the Leinster kryptonite, to be fair it's every team's kryptonite, and you know that the La Rochelle bench is stacked with quality players who are just as big and athletic as the starters - ok few are as big as Atonio, but his replacement Colombe is 1.93m and 135kg, which would be monstrous in any other team. The point being they can keep up the power game.

The power thing is being overstated. Yes, Colombe is big but he's uncapped at international level at the age of 25 so he's not a superstar sitting on the bench. He's just a good player who is part of a well-drilled and coached team.