So, coronavirus...

[Carter's Choice]

Is this thread Bimboman arguing with every singe other poster?

It’s relentless

I've never seen this level of contrarianism. He's literally arguing with everyone. It's weird how managing COVID-19 has been almost impossible for every government and every world leader, but it's super-easy according to Bimboman.

[Sandstorm]

Is this thread Bimboman arguing with every singe other poster?

It’s relentless

I've never seen this level of contrarianism. He's literally arguing with everyone. It's weird how managing COVID-19 has been almost impossible for every government and every world leader, but it's super-easy according to Bimboman.

Several posters here got pissy when I suggested that he’s on the spectrum, but it’s the only explanation for his behaviour. Any normal person -especially one who’s part of the rugby community - would eventually quit and just laugh.

Not this guy.

[Bimbowomxn]

The NHS is great, but it’s badly managed. However if you bring in private-style management then staff numbers in the wrong area - nurses instead of managers will be cut - and patients will end up the losers.

I do not know what the answer is. Sorry.

I spent three weeks in hospital last year and it was clearly an inefficient system (though I owe it my life - thank you all).

And yet one of our huge problems now is that it runs so efficiently in terms of bed occupation. We have dangerously few spare beds compared to much of Western Europe and that’s a huge problem right now.

NHS runs at over 90% bed occupancy and has one of the lowest bed numbers per population across all comparable health systems. Its no wonder it creaks during winter and if there is a flu or coronavirus epidemic, it hasn't been funded to deal with them! If you want an inefficient and expensive system just go the states and their privatised system. Again I would suggest folk go to the Commonwealth Fund reports which found the NHS was usually one of the most efficient in admin efficiency against 11 comparable health systems.

It’s just bottom of the league at keeping people alive. Kills you cheaply though.

It’s funded to the tune of 1 billion pounds every 3 days.

If you want to get great treatment and an equal system go almost anywhere bar America and get better than the NHS coughs up.

[Bimbowomxn]

It’s relentless

I've never seen this level of contrarianism. He's literally arguing with everyone. It's weird how managing COVID-19 has been almost impossible for every government and every world leader, but it's super-easy according to Bimboman.

Several posters here got pissy when I suggested that he’s on the spectrum, but it’s the only explanation for his behaviour. Any normal person -especially one who’s part of the rugby community - would eventually quit and just laugh.

Not this guy.

I’m consistent regarding every issue I post on, it’s not contrarian......

You’re agreeing with Troll Ali about trolling.

Once again you’ve diagnosed someone on the Internet. With no irony at all from system dude central about others being autistic.again take a bow.

[Tichtheid]

She’s not trying very hard, it took me around thirty seconds to find it, PHE/Cambridge, Sage, LSHTM, Imperial, Warwick.

[Bimbowomxn]

She’s not trying very hard, it took me around thirty seconds to find it, PHE/Cambridge, Sage, LSHTM, Imperial, Warwick.

Which one is which ?

Oh and while you’re here as an expert can you explain how we could maintain 4,000 deaths a day if the known over all IFR is 0.25%?

The pandemic wouldn’t last that long.

Also make a comparison to Brazil who got no where near that number but have 200 million plus people and a poor health service ?

[Bimbowomxn]

[Tichtheid]

She’s not trying very hard, it took me around thirty seconds to find it, PHE/Cambridge, Sage, LSHTM, Imperial, Warwick.

Which one is which ?

GIYF

[Bimbowomxn]

She’s not trying very hard, it took me around thirty seconds to find it, PHE/Cambridge, Sage, LSHTM, Imperial, Warwick.

Which one is which ?

GIYF

We should get to see the models right ?

[Tichtheid]

Did you not see them then?

[Bimbowomxn]

Did you not see them then?

You have the models ?

[Tichtheid]

Of course I don’t have the models, but armed with the knowledge of who conducted the research I could probably find them. Perhaps others could too.

[Slick]

What's everyone's opinion on how mask wearing and social distancing is being adhered to. I ask because I was surprised to hear Piers Morgan saying there as an appaling lack of mask wearing in and around central London, especially in shops etc. I found this odd because up here it is incredibly rare to see even one person not wearing a mask . Surely there can't be that different an attitude.

I’ve not seen more than one or two unmasked people in supermarkets here. I do most of the family shopping.

The young though are all quietly partying post the 10pm close downs. Especially at weekends.

Bimboh is right. People are wearing masks in shops and following the rules in public.

In private it’s a shitshow, especially in the under 30s who are partying with their mates, then going home to Mum and Dad and Nan and making them sick.

I said on here a few weeks back that on a trip to London I was very surprised at the different attitudes to up here. Plenty of people not wearing masks in shops, cafes etc.

I was in Mull last week and it seemed to be mainly English tourists. It was really noticeable the difference in attitudes again. Most of the shops had big signs outside reminding people of the rules but lots didn’t seem to give a shit. The locals we spoke to said it had been the same all summer

[Bimbowomxn]

I’ve not seen more than one or two unmasked people in supermarkets here. I do most of the family shopping.

The young though are all quietly partying post the 10pm close downs. Especially at weekends.

Bimboh is right. People are wearing masks in shops and following the rules in public.

In private it’s a shitshow, especially in the under 30s who are partying with their mates, then going home to Mum and Dad and Nan and making them sick.

I said on here a few weeks back that on a trip to London I was very surprised at the different attitudes to up here. Plenty of people not wearing masks in shops, cafes etc.

I was in Mull last week and it seemed to be mainly English tourists. It was really noticeable the difference in attitudes again. Most of the shops had big signs outside reminding people of the rules but lots didn’t seem to give a shit. The locals we spoke to said it had been the same all summer

What different English tourists they must get. Two trips away for me and family over summer and adherence to masks in shops was very high.

[Slick]

There’s a shock

[Un Pilier]

The NHS is great, but it’s badly managed. However if you bring in private-style management then staff numbers in the wrong area - nurses instead of managers will be cut - and patients will end up the losers.

I do not know what the answer is. Sorry.

I spent three weeks in hospital last year and it was clearly an inefficient system (though I owe it my life - thank you all).

And yet one of our huge problems now is that it runs so efficiently in terms of bed occupation. We have dangerously few spare beds compared to much of Western Europe and that’s a huge problem right now.

NHS runs at over 90% bed occupancy and has one of the lowest bed numbers per population across all comparable health systems. Its no wonder it creaks during winter and if there is a flu or coronavirus epidemic, it hasn't been funded to deal with them! If you want an inefficient and expensive system just go the states and their privatised system. Again I would suggest folk go to the Commonwealth Fund reports which found the NHS was usually one of the most efficient in admin efficiency against 11 comparable health systems.

I think we are agreeing that by the bed occupancy measure the NHS is very efficient. However, the impact of this masks dangerous and unintended consequences at the best of times - at times like this we have insufficient capacity and a failing system.

[Un Pilier]

I’ve not seen more than one or two unmasked people in supermarkets here. I do most of the family shopping.

The young though are all quietly partying post the 10pm close downs. Especially at weekends.

Bimboh is right. People are wearing masks in shops and following the rules in public.

In private it’s a shitshow, especially in the under 30s who are partying with their mates, then going home to Mum and Dad and Nan and making them sick.

I said on here a few weeks back that on a trip to London I was very surprised at the different attitudes to up here. Plenty of people not wearing masks in shops, cafes etc.

I was in Mull last week and it seemed to be mainly English tourists. It was really noticeable the difference in attitudes again. Most of the shops had big signs outside reminding people of the rules but lots didn’t seem to give a shit. The locals we spoke to said it had been the same all summer

There is a huge issue around enforcement imo. It’s not easy but it has to be tackled. Round my way most people make At least a token effort but a significant proportion don’t wear masks or observe social distancing properly. Even outside my GPs today I felt moved to offer advice to three out of five people. One pillock failed on mask, distance and foot operated sanitiser. Obviously he reacted quite aggressively to my helpful hints. As I said it’s not easy.

[Sandstorm]

Enforcement? Nonsense, people can always be trusted to do the right thing.

[Openside]

What's everyone's opinion on how mask wearing and social distancing is being adhered to. I ask because I was surprised to hear Piers Morgan saying there as an appaling lack of mask wearing in and around central London, especially in shops etc. I found this odd because up here it is incredibly rare to see even one person not wearing a mask . Surely there can't be that different an attitude.

There has to be a chance people are taking their masks off if they see Piers, why pass up the chance you might be infected

I haven't seen a single person without a mask in either Sainsburys in weeks or Guildford today.

[eldanielfire]

Telegraph tomorrow reporting that the Brexit Party is to relaunch as an anti lockdown party.

Cue Farage getting hours of unwarranted BBC airtime again.

You cannot be serious

I said ages ago, he should have been made a lord, it would keep him out of trouble.

[eldanielfire]

Incredible. LBC listeners voting for an astronomically larger NHS. How the world turns.

What the fuck would you know about LBC listeners? And what vote ?

LBC seems like a right wing mouthpiece. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You draw that conclusion from a clip of a ex-Islamic extremist radio host asking for more money for Health care? You are stupid.

[eldanielfire]

I find the 'lockdown sceptics' pretty tedious.

I have no doubt at all that if there wasn't an overwhelming need for it then no government (and particularly this one) would be doing it.

Indeed. It is blindingly obvious this Government have resisted lockdowns when possible. SO why so many nutters are acting like they are purposely jumping the gun here against all reason is ridiculous.

[eldanielfire]

You’d lock down forever then. Kill millions through other problems but solve the Covid issue.

Lockdowns in the west massively increase third world poverty. Everytime you cheer on that delay millions of poor people become poorer.

Oh and we certainly don’t need a world wide government solution.

I’d lock down until we get R below 1 as that seems to be what the best advice is, if that comes sooner than the 2nd of December then so much the better.

poverty in the developing world is such a huge topic that I genuinely do not have the time to go into it, but it does deserve better than that statement you made.

No you would want the death of millions.

Ffs he's stinking up nearly everythread everywhere

Except of course Rugby threads.....

[eldanielfire]

My question is why is test and trace so effective in South Korea and ahs failed in Germany? I'm, wondering if shutting borders isn't simply the best option with any other action, something Europe make politically difficult. Australia and New Zealand clearly have a better grasp on COVID than Europe as a whole.

[Carter's Choice]

Bimboh is right. People are wearing masks in shops and following the rules in public.

In private it’s a shitshow, especially in the under 30s who are partying with their mates, then going home to Mum and Dad and Nan and making them sick.

If under 30's are still taking the piss it sounds like the UK needs a raft of preventative measures as well as the lockdowns? Melbourne imposed a curfew, a 5km travel radius, made masks mandatory and levied $5000 fines for anyone breaching any of the rules. Seemed to work pretty well for them. 5000 pound fines would act as a decent deterrent for British youngsters.

[eldanielfire]

The NHS is great, but it’s badly managed. However if you bring in private-style management then staff numbers in the wrong area - nurses instead of managers will be cut - and patients will end up the losers.

I do not know what the answer is. Sorry.

Import some of the best health system leaders from Europe to reform the NHS to a better model?

[Tichtheid]

I find the 'lockdown sceptics' pretty tedious.

I have no doubt at all that if there wasn't an overwhelming need for it then no government (and particularly this one) would be doing it.

Indeed. It is blindingly obvious this Government have resisted lockdowns when possible. SO why so many nutters are acting like they are purposely jumping the gun here against all reason is ridiculous.

Part of Johnson’s statement to the HoC on the 12th of October

This morning the Deputy Chief Medical Officer set out the stark reality of the second wave of this virus the number of cases has quadrupled in the last three weeks there are now more people in hospital with Covid than when we went into lockdown on March 23 and deaths are already rising and of course there are those who say that on that logic we should go back into a full national lockdown of indefinite duration closing schools and businesses telling people again to stay at home as we did in March once again shuttering our lives and our society

I do not believe that would be the right course,

[eldanielfire]

Is this thread Bimboman arguing with every singe other poster?

If we connected two wires to him it would be unlimited free electricity for a generation.

[eldanielfire]

Doesn't that show lockdowns do work then?

[Saint]

My question is why is test and trace so effective in South Korea and ahs failed in Germany? I'm, wondering if shutting borders isn't simply the best option with any other action, something Europe make politically difficult. Australia and New Zealand clearly have a better grasp on COVID than Europe as a whole.

Tracing in South Korea involves a level of data intrusion that is unacceptable in Europe. Phone GPS tracking, credit card recipts etc to look at exactly who ahs come into contact with who. Whereas we have a system designed to look into people's history as little as possible, they have the exact opposite

[Paddington Bear]

My question is why is test and trace so effective in South Korea and ahs failed in Germany? I'm, wondering if shutting borders isn't simply the best option with any other action, something Europe make politically difficult. Australia and New Zealand clearly have a better grasp on COVID than Europe as a whole.

This seems fairly explainable to me - South Korea is a broadly authoritarian state with a public well aware of the dangers of being surrounded by deeply unpredictable neighbours. Therefore the government can demand, and get, a higher level of compliance than is possible in Western Europe in 2020.
Australia and New Zealand are a long way from anywhere and could more easily shut down than Western Europe. Whether in the long run that will prove a better outcome we shall see.

It does strike me as somewhat reassuring that despite Boris' increasingly calamitous performance our outcomes seem to be broadly comparable to France and Germany.

[eldanielfire]

Tracing in South Korea involves a level of data intrusion that is unacceptable in Europe. Phone GPS tracking, credit card recipts etc to look at exactly who ahs come into contact with who. Whereas we have a system designed to look into people's history as little as possible, they have the exact opposite

This seems fairly explainable to me - South Korea is a broadly authoritarian state with a public well aware of the dangers of being surrounded by deeply unpredictable neighbours. Therefore the government can demand, and get, a higher level of compliance than is possible in Western Europe in 2020.
Australia and New Zealand are a long way from anywhere and could more easily shut down than Western Europe. Whether in the long run that will prove a better outcome we shall see.

It does strike me as somewhat reassuring that despite Boris' increasingly calamitous performance our outcomes seem to be broadly comparable to France and Germany.

That all makes sense, cheers.

I wonder if Labour and other critics will still pursue " a good test and trace system" as the answer to all COVID ills.

[Paddington Bear]

Tracing in South Korea involves a level of data intrusion that is unacceptable in Europe. Phone GPS tracking, credit card recipts etc to look at exactly who ahs come into contact with who. Whereas we have a system designed to look into people's history as little as possible, they have the exact opposite

This seems fairly explainable to me - South Korea is a broadly authoritarian state with a public well aware of the dangers of being surrounded by deeply unpredictable neighbours. Therefore the government can demand, and get, a higher level of compliance than is possible in Western Europe in 2020.
Australia and New Zealand are a long way from anywhere and could more easily shut down than Western Europe. Whether in the long run that will prove a better outcome we shall see.

It does strike me as somewhat reassuring that despite Boris' increasingly calamitous performance our outcomes seem to be broadly comparable to France and Germany.

That all makes sense, cheers.

I wonder if Labour and other critics will still pursue " a good test and trace system" as the answer to all COVID ills.

Where I suspect Starmer is right is that if T&T is going to work then this month is the last opportunity to get it right. Almost de facto the borders are closed and so we can get it set up for new arrivals. The challenge though is it will always require a level of compulsion we're not used to.

The only T&T system I've seen in the west that actually works is Jersey's - but then you've got only two points of entry and everyone tests on arrival.

[JM2K6]

It does strike me as somewhat reassuring that despite Boris' increasingly calamitous performance our outcomes seem to be broadly comparable to France and Germany.

Deaths per million population:

Germany 128
France 550
UK 700

Eh...

[Rinkals]

It does strike me as somewhat reassuring that despite Boris' increasingly calamitous performance our outcomes seem to be broadly comparable to France and Germany.

Deaths per million population:

Germany 128
France 550
UK 700

Eh...

Bimbo in 3, 2, 1 ...

[dpedin]

I spent three weeks in hospital last year and it was clearly an inefficient system (though I owe it my life - thank you all).

And yet one of our huge problems now is that it runs so efficiently in terms of bed occupation. We have dangerously few spare beds compared to much of Western Europe and that’s a huge problem right now.

NHS runs at over 90% bed occupancy and has one of the lowest bed numbers per population across all comparable health systems. Its no wonder it creaks during winter and if there is a flu or coronavirus epidemic, it hasn't been funded to deal with them! If you want an inefficient and expensive system just go the states and their privatised system. Again I would suggest folk go to the Commonwealth Fund reports which found the NHS was usually one of the most efficient in admin efficiency against 11 comparable health systems.

I think we are agreeing that by the bed occupancy measure the NHS is very efficient. However, the impact of this masks dangerous and unintended consequences at the best of times - at times like this we have insufficient capacity and a failing system.

Actually not the point I was making! Running the system with over 90% bed occupancy isn't a measure of success, it leads to inefficiency, poor use of resources and poor clinical outcomes. What we really need is to up the number of beds available and run at about 80% occupancy levels. This would make the system more efficient and provide headroom for winter and periods of high demand. This could be done if we funded the NHS up to roughly the same levels as that in comparable systems in europe - look at the number of beds per capita in the likes of Germany for example. It would also improve clinical outcomes. However real term cuts in the NHS over the last 10 years has created a major problem. Also I know for a fact that bed numbers were reduced in order to make the PFI type contracts affordable - all the business cases made heroic assumptions about number of beds required modelled on unrealistic assumptions about lengths of stay, care at home, outpatient and day cases rates, etc. All of this was to reduce bed numbers to make the PFI contracts affordable and ensure the private sector made a profit. Whilst the NHS has achieved miracles in terms of reducing length of stay and day case rates etc the demographics, the improving outcomes in treatment, in cancer care for example, and the failure of the social care sector provision means the NHS is short of bed capacity.

[Jb1981]

It does strike me as somewhat reassuring that despite Boris' increasingly calamitous performance our outcomes seem to be broadly comparable to France and Germany.

Deaths per million population:

Germany 128
France 550
UK 700

Eh...

Bimbo in 3, 2, 1 ...

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.ft.com/content/3c776449-b2a ... 265a01083e

It always seems to be too soon. It was too soon for the UK to lock down in early March, when other European countries had already done so. It was too soon for Boris Johnson to reimpose national restrictions in September, when scientific advisers privately called for them.

Now the UK prime minister’s allies tell us it is too soon to judge his government’s performance. They may be right. We don’t know how the pandemic will end — and other countries, including France, Italy, Spain and Scotland, which manages its own health service, have suffered similar peaks and troughs to England. If the UK government has erred, others have too, in different ways.

Yet it is not too early to judge the performance of Mr Johnson himself because we have already seen the pattern. His missteps over coronavirus have closely followed those he made over Brexit. In both cases, he insisted on seeing what he wanted to see. He saw a world where the British economy would blossom by shunning its largest trading partner, and where a virus would disappear while he shook hands with its victims. That world did not exist.

Mr Johnson went beyond patriotism to embrace British exceptionalism. As coronavirus spread in early February, he mocked the idea that it would affect the global economy, insisting that the UK was “ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles”, and act “as the supercharged champion” of free trade.

If you are not Superman, taking off your spectacles just leaves you blindly optimistic. With Brexit, Mr Johnson insisted “Global Britain” would defy the laws of trade gravity; with coronavirus, it would build a “world-beating” test-and-trace system. Mr Johnson is not one for details. There was no sense of how these goals could be achieved — and they have not been. His global rhetoric only exposed his parochialism.

Futile promises are a hallmark of Mr Johnson’s leadership. During the campaign for Brexit he said the Irish border would be “absolutely unchanged”. Running for the Conservative party leadership he said the UK would leave the EU on October 31 of last year, “do or die”. With Covid-19, his pledges were less cynical, but still beyond his control. He suggested that the UK would turn the tide by June and, in July, said there would be a “significant return to normality” by Christmas. Some people are born to mislead.

Mr Johnson has been most at ease attacking the proposals of others, then stealing them. When his predecessor Theresa May came up with a Brexit deal that avoided a hard border on the island of Ireland, he likened it to a “suicide vest”. When Labour leader Keir Starmer proposed a two-week “circuit breaker” lockdown last month, Mr Johnson dismissed it as offering endless “misery”. In both cases, he ended up adopting the bulk of the proposals that he had lambasted.

His favoured tactic has been to wait until the last moment before U-turning. Whatever the political merits of this strategy, its real-world effects are likely to be disastrous. As Brexit talks drag on, businesses do not know what trading arrangements with the EU will be in two months. Thousands more Britons are now forecast to die of Covid-19 than would have been the case had lockdown been implemented in September.

Mr Johnson has his strengths. This time a year ago, he began an election campaign that made even some Remainers believe Brexit could be swiftly solved. After leaving intensive care in April, he gave an inspiring tribute to the medical team who had treated him for Covid-19. He is an ideal salesman of ideas, which is why his interest in climate change is so welcome.

The problem is that he does not stick to an idea. His signature on any topic is incoherence. He is pro-individual liberty and pro-public health. He likes low taxes and a big state. He wants to boost business, while refusing to listen to it. He does not want a culture war, but he doesn’t stop his government from fighting one. He wants to be the hero and expects everyone else to do the work.

Democratic accountability is an art, not a science — and not a very sophisticated one. Some leaders are punished for events on their watch for which they bear no blame. Some escape the blame for their misdeeds.

Mr Johnson may get lucky with Brexit: while voters now think voting to leave the EU was a bad idea, their minds are elsewhere. But he can have no complaint about being held responsible for the UK’s pandemic failings. He has made the same mistakes at least twice and now looks unlikely to remain in office beyond 2024. Whatever challenge faces him before then, he will probably make the same mistakes again.

[dpedin]

It does strike me as somewhat reassuring that despite Boris' increasingly calamitous performance our outcomes seem to be broadly comparable to France and Germany.

Deaths per million population:

Germany 128
France 550
UK 700

Eh...

Germany has about a 1/3 of the number of cases the UK does and is taking early action, as they should have done in England. It is implementing the lock down to get the numbers down so its test and track system can get things back under control. Every country in europe is experiencing a peak as we move into winter months - highly predictable and should have been planned for. However Germany has a plan to drive down the virus and get it back under control, the UK on the other hand is going into lock down because we have lost control and our NHS is on the brink of collapsing, as the Blonde Bumblecunt acknowledged. Our performance and planning is miles away from Germany's!

[eldanielfire]

It does strike me as somewhat reassuring that despite Boris' increasingly calamitous performance our outcomes seem to be broadly comparable to France and Germany.

Deaths per million population:

Germany 128
France 550
UK 700

Eh...

Germany has about a 1/3 of the number of cases the UK does and is taking early action, as they should have done in England. It is implementing the lock down to get the numbers down so its test and track system can get things back under control. Every country in europe is experiencing a peak as we move into winter months - highly predictable and should have been planned for. However Germany has a plan to drive down the virus and get it back under control, the UK on the other hand is going into lock down because we have lost control and our NHS is on the brink of collapsing, as the Blonde Bumblecunt acknowledged. Our performance and planning is miles away from Germany's!

What actions have Germany planned to drive down the infection rate?