Suez canal blocked

[Insane_Homer]

Can anyone in the know explain how tugs work? Do they just have more/bigger blades on their propeller(s) attached to a bigger engine(s) or is there more science and engineering in play?

Slow bumper boats with tons of torque?

[TB63]

Physics..

Same way a 60 ton canal boat can be moved by 1 person..

[Hal Jordan]

What are they like on a treadmill?

[Uncle fester]

What would the difference be in journey time from say Gibraltar to Mumbai going around the Cape compared to going via Suez?
I just wondered when the ships started using that route.

Adds a week to transit time I think.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

They're going to try on Monday as it's a spring tide, all, of 2 metres of it... Be 8.4 metres for us locally...

I hadn't thought of that, the tides that is, pretty daft but I didn't think beyond canals just stay level. I wonder when they'll get into low tide problems and the boat sitting down still more and/or damaging the hull structure

[Chrysoprase]

What are they like on a treadmill?

Like me - fat, slow & wheezy

[Uncle fester]

Layman's questions

1) Why no ground base winching? Bring in, anchor them and pull?
2) Skycrane the load off to lighten the ship? Or are freight containers too heavy for that?

Ships are not designed for those kind of stresses. Good chance it'll rupture of you try to haul it like that.

The thing is the same length as the empire state building. Would take too long to get the load off but they might have to do it if the wee digger can't do the job.

The issue is the required foundations for any land based winch system, just not possible in short term and sourcing those winches would be tricky.

The vessel will have adequate strength for towing off, I don’t see any structural concerns even if the bow is no longer water tight.

Basically, more tugs are needed once the bow section is cleared but it is likely aground too so they will be looking at how to lighten the load.

Salvage companies will be making a killing.

Towing along the axis of bow to stern sure but wouldn't be so sure about a load coming in at oblique angle.

[shaggy]

Ships are not designed for those kind of stresses. Good chance it'll rupture of you try to haul it like that.

The thing is the same length as the empire state building. Would take too long to get the load off but they might have to do it if the wee digger can't do the job.

The issue is the required foundations for any land based winch system, just not possible in short term and sourcing those winches would be tricky.

The vessel will have adequate strength for towing off, I don’t see any structural concerns even if the bow is no longer water tight.

Basically, more tugs are needed once the bow section is cleared but it is likely aground too so they will be looking at how to lighten the load.

Salvage companies will be making a killing.

Towing along the axis of bow to stern sure but wouldn't be so sure about a load coming in at oblique angle.

They are designed for loading in many planes, the forces exerted when moored are similar to what will be seen during salvage operations.

[Uncle fester]

That doesn't seem plausible.

[shaggy]

That doesn't seem plausible.

In what way? When a ship is moored at a berth the mooring lines are deployed to prevent longitudinal and transverse movement so the loads imparted to the ships mooring equipment will not be acting in just one direction.

The classification society design codes cover this.

[Sandstorm]

Just seen my date of my Amazon delivery shift out 8 weeks overnight for a cat hairbrush I ordered from China. I suspect it’s on this bloody container ship.

[Uncle fester]

Just seen my date of my Amazon delivery shift out 8 weeks overnight for a cat hairbrush I ordered from China. I suspect it’s on this bloody container ship.

#prayforsandstorm

[fishfoodie]

Just seen my date of my Amazon delivery shift out 8 weeks overnight for a cat hairbrush I ordered from China. I suspect it’s on this bloody container ship.

#prayforsandstorm

I'm shocked he's told us he has cat hair; now I imagine him looking like this ....

[Sandstorm]

Just seen my date of my Amazon delivery shift out 8 weeks overnight for a cat hairbrush I ordered from China. I suspect it’s on this bloody container ship.

#prayforsandstorm

I'm shocked he's told us he has cat hair; now I imagine him looking like this ....

You don’t understand, it’s made of cat

[Torquemada 1420]

Can anyone in the know explain how tugs work? Do they just have more/bigger blades on their propeller(s) attached to a bigger engine(s) or is there more science and engineering in play?

Don't know about tugs specifically but would think it would depend upon application. All of them will have powerful, high torque motors. In shallow waters, too much speed will result in the boat dragging.

I can't imagine the blades differ much between them nor in ratio to any other size of boat: there are practical issues with over size props including stuff like balance, leverage etc

I suspect the difference between tugs will be their shape and draught which will be different for ocean going and inland/harbour use. Also dimensions (width: a wide tug can deploy more props). They must me more agile too (maybe they have thrusters or can vary prop pitch and angle?).

[shaggy]

Can anyone in the know explain how tugs work? Do they just have more/bigger blades on their propeller(s) attached to a bigger engine(s) or is there more science and engineering in play?

Don't know about tugs specifically but would think it would depend upon application. All of them will have powerful, high torque motors. In shallow waters, too much speed will result in the boat dragging.

I can't imagine the blades differ much between them nor in ratio to any other size of boat: there are practical issues with over size props including stuff like balance, leverage etc

I suspect the difference between tugs will be their shape and draught which will be different for ocean going and inland/harbour use. Also dimensions (width: a wide tug can deploy more props). They must me more agile too (maybe they have thrusters or can vary prop pitch and angle?).

Huge variation in tugs based on their role. Harbour tugs need manoeuvrability, deep sea tugs need horsepower. Propulsion systems can be hugely different with traditional controllable pitch propellers, azimuthing units which vary direction, speed and pitch and then you have Voith Schneider. They all have a lot of installed power for pulling and/or pushing.

[Sandstorm]

Holy shit! Have we finally discovered a topic that all Bordies know nothing about?????

[shaggy]

Holy shit! Have we finally discovered a topic that all Bordies know nothing about?????

Almost all.

[TB63]

Just look up bollard.pull.
Be very careful with your spelling...

[Glaston]

Holy shit! Have we finally discovered a topic that all Bordies know nothing about?????

Globus is unwell.

[Kawazaki]

Holy shit! Have we finally discovered a topic that all Bordies know nothing about?????

Globus is unwell.

He's clearly not seen this thread yet. Given he invented the tug, and project managed the construction of the Suez canal he is well placed to answer.

[Paddington Bear]

Holy shit! Have we finally discovered a topic that all Bordies know nothing about?????

Globus is unwell.

He's clearly not seen this thread yet. Given he invented the tug, and project managed the construction of the Suez canal he is well placed to answer.

I assume he led the paras into Port Said in ‘56

[SaintK]

Holy shit! Have we finally discovered a topic that all Bordies know nothing about?????

Globus is unwell.

He's clearly not seen this thread yet. Given he invented the tug, and project managed the construction of the Suez canal he is well placed to answer.

.........and given his self-professed nautical expertise, he's probably helmed a a ruddy great ship like this!

[Hal Jordan]

This ship is responsible for more blocking than Mitch McConnell.

[Uncle fester]

That doesn't seem plausible.

In what way? When a ship is moored at a berth the mooring lines are deployed to prevent longitudinal and transverse movement so the loads imparted to the ships mooring equipment will not be acting in just one direction.

The classification society design codes cover this.

There's a big different between the forces applied when a boat is moored versus when folks are trying to haul it off being grounded.

[shaggy]

That doesn't seem plausible.

In what way? When a ship is moored at a berth the mooring lines are deployed to prevent longitudinal and transverse movement so the loads imparted to the ships mooring equipment will not be acting in just one direction.

The classification society design codes cover this.

There's a big different between the forces applied when a boat is moored versus when folks are trying to haul it off being grounded.

Really? That should be easy to show then?

[Fangle]

I heard on a local radio that this could cause a toilet paper shortage a people panic. Fear-mongers.

Shaggy, isn’t your job something to do with shipping? Captain or something? Or is that someone else. I know you’re not the Argentinian ref.

[shaggy]

I heard on a local radio that this could cause a toilet paper shortage a people panic. Fear-mongers.

Shaggy, isn’t your job something to do with shipping? Captain or something? Or is that someone else. I know you’re not the Argentinian ref.

Yes, something to do with shipping. Enough to know what I am talking about anyway.

[fishfoodie]

Is anyone on the hook; liability wise for this little blockage ?

Was the Pilot onboard, or was this before they pick them up ?

[The Druid]

[Uncle fester]

In what way? When a ship is moored at a berth the mooring lines are deployed to prevent longitudinal and transverse movement so the loads imparted to the ships mooring equipment will not be acting in just one direction.

The classification society design codes cover this.

There's a big different between the forces applied when a boat is moored versus when folks are trying to haul it off being grounded.

Really? That should be easy to show then?

No need to be a prat about it.
Mooring is a bit static compared to dynamic forces from great big tugs.

[Kiwias]

Just being reported that the Ever Given has been refloated.

[shaggy]

There's a big different between the forces applied when a boat is moored versus when folks are trying to haul it off being grounded.

Really? That should be easy to show then?

No need to be a prat about it.
Mooring is a bit static compared to dynamic forces from great big tugs.

I was giving you enough hints but you kept/keep on digging.

No, mooring is not static in any way, in fact the loads can be far more dynamic and variable than from towing or escort duties.

[Enzedder]

So the turd has been refloated and is moving up the sewer. Good news.

[Uncle fester]

Really? That should be easy to show then?

No need to be a prat about it.
Mooring is a bit static compared to dynamic forces from great big tugs.

I was giving you enough hints but you kept/keep on digging.

No, mooring is not static in any way, in fact the loads can be far more dynamic and variable than from towing or escort duties.

Fair enough so.

[TB63]

Saw a graphic on the track and position of the ship prior to it grounding. High wind was behind it as she entered the canal but on the first bend, she slewed, so they corrected for her to slew again, and again etc.
Basically the world's slowest tank slapper...

[Torquemada 1420]

Huge variation in tugs based on their role. Harbour tugs need manoeuvrability, deep sea tugs need horsepower. Propulsion systems can be hugely different with traditional controllable pitch propellers, azimuthing units which vary direction, speed and pitch and then you have Voith Schneider. They all have a lot of installed power for pulling and/or pushing.

Interesting in how much overlap there is with aircraft prop technology which, I guess, should be no surprise. Air only a slightly different fluid to water!

Voith Schneider is a newbie. Would not work on a plane.

This is really cool:


I assume this means they must be mounted under the hull sat facing down i.e. a bastardised paddle steamer?

[Torquemada 1420]

Holy shit! Have we finally discovered a topic that all Bordies know nothing about?????

Globus is unwell.

He's clearly not seen this thread yet. Given he invented the tug, and project managed the construction of the Suez canal he is well placed to answer.

[Torquemada 1420]

Shaggy, isn’t your job something to do with shipping? Captain or something? Or is that someone else. I know you’re not the Argentinian ref.

He's Braz in disguise.

[TB63]

Huge variation in tugs based on their role. Harbour tugs need manoeuvrability, deep sea tugs need horsepower. Propulsion systems can be hugely different with traditional controllable pitch propellers, azimuthing units which vary direction, speed and pitch and then you have Voith Schneider. They all have a lot of installed power for pulling and/or pushing.

Interesting in how much overlap there is with aircraft prop technology which, I guess, should be no surprise. Air only a slightly different fluid to water!

Voith Schneider is a newbie. Would not work on a plane.

This is really cool:


I assume this means they must be mounted under the hull at facing down i.e. a bastardised paddle steamer?