NPR

Slick wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:05 pm UEFA talking about kicking Chelsea, City and Madrid out of the CL semis now.

That should escalate things

PSG finally win it and it's completely meaningless.

Apparently the Gov’t will do whatever it takes to stop it. This is where my libertarian side kicks in - my first thought is that it isn’t a matter for HMG - it’s one for the clubs and their customers and sponsors.

GogLais wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:41 pm Apparently the Gov’t will do whatever it takes to stop it. This is where my libertarian side kicks in - my first thought is that it isn’t a matter for HMG - it’s one for the clubs and their customers and sponsors.

National sport and all that, it's significance to the nation extends far beyond commercial considerations. Protecting the integrity of the pyramid and keeping the top level of the sport integrated with the grass roots is the important thing here.

Depends if you see sport as a free market business or a public good I guess. For me, the government sticking it's oar in to protect community sport and keep major events on terrestrial tv would be a much better use of the culture budget than almost anything else. Doubt it's gone unnoticed in government that footballers getting millions as salary is essentially free money for the treasury as well.

Hugo wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:48 pm

GogLais wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:41 pm Apparently the Gov’t will do whatever it takes to stop it. This is where my libertarian side kicks in - my first thought is that it isn’t a matter for HMG - it’s one for the clubs and their customers and sponsors.

National sport and all that, it's significance to the nation extends far beyond commercial considerations. Protecting the integrity of the pyramid and keeping the top level of the sport integrated with the grass roots is the important thing here.

I get that but one could argue just as an example that the Welsh rugby clubs shouldn’t have merged into regions, I don’t think the WAG should get involved in that sort of decision. So I’m at a sort of 50% thinking that HMG shouldn’t concern itself with the structure of football leagues.

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:39 pm Depends if you see sport as a free market business or a public good I guess.

...... and that is an argument that extends all the way back to the 19th century, the argument over whether football and sport in general should be for gentleman amateurs or paid professionals, the schism in rugby between the professional northern union clubs and the amateur southern outfits and these types of things. In many ways this current debacle is an extension of these conflicts.

British sport at its founding was steeped in traditions and values that were not commercial in nature Amateurism, community, character building, fair play and such. These have of course been diluted over time as the world has become ever more money oriented but I think it is important to protect and conserve what you can, when you can and that is why I think the government needs to play a role here.

GogLais wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:43 pm

Hugo wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:48 pm

GogLais wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:41 pm Apparently the Gov’t will do whatever it takes to stop it. This is where my libertarian side kicks in - my first thought is that it isn’t a matter for HMG - it’s one for the clubs and their customers and sponsors.

National sport and all that, it's significance to the nation extends far beyond commercial considerations. Protecting the integrity of the pyramid and keeping the top level of the sport integrated with the grass roots is the important thing here.

I get that but one could argue just as an example that the Welsh rugby clubs shouldn’t have merged into regions, I don’t think the WAG should get involved in that sort of decision. So I’m at a sort of 50% thinking that HMG shouldn’t concern itself with the structure of football leagues.

I understand your point but you have to protect national institutions from foreign capital is my opinion.

I can imagine if the New York Yankees were purchased by a Chinese billiionaire and moved out of the American league into some other international league that the US congress would be moving heaven and earth to prevent that from happening, saying it is unAmerican, flies in the face of tradition, is an insult to the memory of Babe Ruth and so on.

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:39 pm Depends if you see sport as a free market business or a public good I guess. For me, the government sticking it's oar in to protect community sport and keep major events on terrestrial tv would be a much better use of the culture budget than almost anything else. Doubt it's gone unnoticed in government that footballers getting millions as salary is essentially free money for the treasury as well.

Well if these Companies want to be treated like businesses, then they should go bust; or accept that their financial model is fucked, & reform !

Lets be honest about it; the reason this is happening now, is that Covid has shown us who was swimming naked; & these are the clubs who've spent against imagined future earnings, & when disruption came along; like Leicester winning the PL; they doubled down & spent even more money.

Now Covid has made things even worse, so they pulled a plan out of the bottom drawer, that should in theory deliver a reliable income, with little risk.

They're trying to create a Monopoly.

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:39 pm Now Covid has made things even worse, so they pulled a plan out of the bottom drawer, that should in theory deliver a reliable income, with little risk.

They're trying to create a Monopoly.

Exactly. They are just going to emulate the American sports model. Monopoly, ring fenced, no relegation, guaranteed TV monies and I am sure they will institute a salary cap to trim wages.

No competition, no risk, just a cash cow with no economic downsides. It's a cartel.

Hugo wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:57 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:39 pm Now Covid has made things even worse, so they pulled a plan out of the bottom drawer, that should in theory deliver a reliable income, with little risk.

They're trying to create a Monopoly.

Exactly. They are just going to emulate the American sports model. Monopoly, ring fenced, no relegation, guaranteed TV monies and I am sure they will institute a salary cap to trim wages.

No competition, no risk, just a cash cow with no economic downsides. It's a cartel.

Like the Pro14?

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:39 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:39 pm Depends if you see sport as a free market business or a public good I guess. For me, the government sticking it's oar in to protect community sport and keep major events on terrestrial tv would be a much better use of the culture budget than almost anything else. Doubt it's gone unnoticed in government that footballers getting millions as salary is essentially free money for the treasury as well.

Well if these Companies want to be treated like businesses, then they should go bust; or accept that their financial model is fucked, & reform !

Lets be honest about it; the reason this is happening now, is that Covid has shown us who was swimming naked; & these are the clubs who've spent against imagined future earnings, & when disruption came along; like Leicester winning the PL; they doubled down & spent even more money.

Now Covid has made things even worse, so they pulled a plan out of the bottom drawer, that should in theory deliver a reliable income, with little risk.

They're trying to create a Monopoly.

Talking about football as a free market is laughable. I don't remember Sheikh Mansoor and Roman Abramovich going through a competitive tender process to get their wealth. They love a monopoly! That's how they got where they are. Chelsea and City don't exist today in this form without monopolies. What are they going to do to reform? invite competition? The Premier League is no free market.

Also the US sports owners leveraging of debt is "the free market" but their financial instruments are hardly good are they? Spurs' owner is a tax exile too.

There is absolutely no morality in football. And most people didn't care and they've got what they deserve now.

From the lads over at football365





Guess which club? ;)

Saw a great line earlier

Spurs in the Super League is like me walking into the Crucible and leaving 50p on the table

Chelsea withdraw.

Dominoes likely to fall behind them

City now too.

Must say, this is actually pretty funny. It sees that even in a sport as spivtastic as football, it is actually possible to push the boat out a little too far.

Fans of mid table sides rejoice at the salvation of football’s soul, before returning to tweet about wishing that the Saudi sovereign wealth fund would buy them

Chelsea fans protesting on the Fulham Road blocking the entrance to the ground to players & officials.

Hugo wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:33 pm Chelsea fans protesting on the Fulham Road blocking the entrance to the ground to players & officials.

B&Q probably sold out of stanley knives today

Cut throat defences from the splitters, no doubt.

Perez is whining about how bad this will be for Real Madrid. Fuck you, your club has had every advantage conferred upon you for decades, from the fascist dictator bestowing his favour to the town council assuming the position, and you still can't run the finances without shitting money out like you ate pork five days past its sell by date.

Slick wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:57 pm Saw a great line earlier

Spurs in the Super League is like me walking into the Crucible and leaving 50p on the table

Not bad, but I preferred the one about it being like Bananaman being called up to the Avengers.

Bad news for Thich Quang Duc; for more than 50 years he had been the World Champion of self-immolation; but in the last 72 hours, he's seen his efforts overtaken by dozens of supposedly intelligent & capable people.

Jock42 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 am

Mileendmikey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:52 am As a West Ham fan of almost 50 years, I would be delighted to see them all fuck right off and chase the money. It would make the premier league much more of an even playing field. But seriously Tottenham a top European club!

If Celtic and Rangers fucked off I'd possibly be more interested in Scottish football. You never know, Saints could have been on for the treble.

It’s a beautiful idea. It really is. But they wouldn’t fuck off and die. They would fuck off and take 80% of the fans, 99% of the money and 100% of the decent players. They would also leave ‘Colts’ teams behind just so the bad smell didn’t quite go away, and the ‘authorities’ would roll over and let them do it.

The only way it would work would be if they had to, say, start in the English Conference, and went so long without winning anything that their glory hunter fans lost interest and started actually following their local team instead.

Completely Agree

The PL prioritized TV money, over keeping the fans engaged; & now they're using their own decision to justify this shit plan.

Yup, for many years it was the only football I watched, now I don’t watch any

In this vein, Chelsea Brighton is broadly unwatchable tonight. Dire stuff

This lad broke them...

All six PL clubs have now shit the bed, & withdrawn.

This is where the Yanks thing about; "Speaking truth to Power", makes sense. I've no doubt there were people in these meetings who had their inner dialogs going WTF, as the plan was outlaid; but obviously; no one said anything .....

What a clusterfuck !

Yr Alban wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:25 pm

Jock42 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 am

Mileendmikey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:52 am As a West Ham fan of almost 50 years, I would be delighted to see them all fuck right off and chase the money. It would make the premier league much more of an even playing field. But seriously Tottenham a top European club!

If Celtic and Rangers fucked off I'd possibly be more interested in Scottish football. You never know, Saints could have been on for the treble.

It’s a beautiful idea. It really is. But they wouldn’t fuck off and die. They would fuck off and take 80% of the fans, 99% of the money and 100% of the decent players. They would also leave ‘Colts’ teams behind just so the bad smell didn’t quite go away, and the ‘authorities’ would roll over and let them do it.

The only way it would work would be if they had to, say, start in the English Conference, and went so long without winning anything that their glory hunter fans lost interest and started actually following their local team instead.

Unfortunately you're probably right.

Meh, Oikball gunna oikball

Andrea Agnelli gone too

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:21 pm All six PL clubs have now shit the bed, & withdrawn.

This is where the Yanks thing about; "Speaking truth to Power", makes sense. I've no doubt there were people in these meetings who had their inner dialogs going WTF, as the plan was outlaid; but obviously; no one said anything .....

What a clusterfuck !

Hmmm! That all went well then?
Amazed they didn't do any market research as to the reaction it would get

SaintK wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:52 am

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:21 pm All six PL clubs have now shit the bed, & withdrawn.

This is where the Yanks thing about; "Speaking truth to Power", makes sense. I've no doubt there were people in these meetings who had their inner dialogs going WTF, as the plan was outlaid; but obviously; no one said anything .....

What a clusterfuck !

Hmmm! That all went well then?
Amazed they didn't do any market research as to the reaction it would get

They probably did, but only in China and the Far East. As an article in CityAM put it yesterday:

"The clubs forming the Super League, and their financial backers at JP Morgan, [have] a leaked document [that] describes the “fans of the future”.

That means kids in Korea watching pre-roll ads of Kevin de Bruyne’s latest wizardry are just as valuable as the 30-year season ticket holder. Liverpool don’t care if their fans – well, perhaps consumers is a better word – live in Toxteth or Tianjin. You thought the international summer tours, which are by no means purely the reserve of the biggest clubs, were just a chance to spread the gospel of the beautiful game?"

I wonder if the owners will now be looking at getting out if they are not going to get their own way.

Slick wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:22 am I wonder if the owners will now be looking at getting out if they are not going to get their own way.

Seems likely, doesn't it? Some of them probably won't care too much - the likes of Chelsea, Spurs, maybe a few others - but the Spanish clubs in particular have backed themselves into a corner financially speaking. It's an absolutely hilarious farce.

Would be shocked if the Americans don't try to get out.

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:47 am Would be shocked if the Americans don't try to get out.

GogLais wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:41 pm Apparently the Gov’t will do whatever it takes to stop it. This is where my libertarian side kicks in - my first thought is that it isn’t a matter for HMG - it’s one for the clubs and their customers and sponsors.

So leave it to the market? Where do the common goods and non financial aspects of football clubs come in to that then? Or by libertarian do you just mean traditional neoclassical economics?

Jock42 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 am

Mileendmikey wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:52 am As a West Ham fan of almost 50 years, I would be delighted to see them all fuck right off and chase the money. It would make the premier league much more of an even playing field. But seriously Tottenham a top European club!

If Celtic and Rangers fucked off I'd possibly be more interested in Scottish football. You never know, Saints could have been on for the treble.

It's the fact it's both of them that causes the domination. When Rangers were in the lower leagues, it was noticeable that it was more competitive with only one dominant team. The cups were won by seven different sides when Rangers were out of the top flight. Soon as they came back, Celtic won everything. I'd quite happily watch one of them, preferably Rangers, die completely. Then we'd have a situation similar to a lot of smaller countries.

Biffer wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:11 am

GogLais wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:41 pm Apparently the Gov’t will do whatever it takes to stop it. This is where my libertarian side kicks in - my first thought is that it isn’t a matter for HMG - it’s one for the clubs and their customers and sponsors.

So leave it to the market? Where do the common goods and non financial aspects of football clubs come in to that then? Or by libertarian do you just mean traditional neoclassical economics?

Well as I said later it isn't something I'm hardline about but I don't think the Government should be concerning itself with whether Liverpool play Madrid or Leicester City on a Wednesday night. There are very few films or TV programmes made that I like but I don't expect Boris to do anything about it, I'll do something else instead.