NPR

Biffer wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:00 am I’m thoroughly enjoying him getting his arse handed to him. It looks like he hasn’t coached to the new rules, and still only knows pick and bosh, one out and bosh, mispass and bosh. Doesn’t know what to do with small talented players like McKenzie and Cruden. Cruden looks like he doesn’t even believe in his own decision making, which is probably down to coaching. No imagination in attack. And he doesn’t have Edwards to sort out the defence and drill people in training.

I wish the Chiefs no ill but I broadly agree with that. Given the lack of penetration they certainly can’t afford poor discipline.

FujiKiwi wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:55 am The silver lining is that Gatland is stumbling so badly that he won’t even be considered for All Blacks coach when Foster is inevitably stood down in 2022. This will allow Jamie Joseph and his team to take over the ABs without going through any farcical selection process.

I don’t know. Failing at the chiefs doesn’t seem to be a barrier to the top job.

Gats gets way too much grief. I hope he comes right.

If you only ever hear him talk post match that's a given.

Thoughtful guy and been through a lot. May grab his book one day if local library reopens.

I laugh at people saying that we are now a disorganised rabble.

Shit, that saying describes Chiefs rugby to a tee. We are now a half-organised rabble

bump ?

How do you lose from there. Wow.

Gats would be better when he coaches the ABs. He's more of a test coach now.

The other concern here is Sam Cane being a losing captain.

FujiKiwi wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:32 am Wales weren't just gym monkeys under Gatland's tenure, though.

I think it's more that when he got his Grand Slams with Wales, the other nations were undergoing slumps of their own.

His first Lions tour succeeded against a pretty poorly coached Aussie team. In 2017 the ABs were in a bit of a decline, and even then Gatland needed a fair bit of luck. His midweek sides weren't great against Super teams.

For me the most irritating thing about him is how whiny and thin skinned he is. It was a shame to see some of that rubbing off on the Chiefs in the way Angus Ta'avao spoke when interviewed at half time.

Gatland is turning the Chiefs into a bunch of crybabies.

What absolute rubbish. When Wales won 6 Nations in 2012 and 2013 they stopped England getting the Grand Slam each time. In 2019 they beat the world cup finalists to do it. When he faced the All Blacks in 2017, they were just off one of their longest unbeaten runs. In fact you could point out it was Gatland who laid the template to defeat the Barrett at 10 ABs team.

Gatland may be going through a bad run now, but he has in the past and gone on to more success.

Ymx wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:17 am The other concern here is Sam Cane being a losing captain.

Agreed. And on top of that he may not be the best 7 available for the ABs.

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:29 am
What absolute rubbish. When Wales won 6 Nations in 2012 and 2013 they stopped England getting the Grand Slam each time. In 2019 they beat the world cup finalists to do it. When he faced the All Blacks in 2017, they were just off one of their longest unbeaten runs. In fact you could point out it was Gatland who laid the template to defeat the Barrett at 10 ABs team.

Gatland may be going through a bad run now, but he has in the past and gone on to more success.

Yes, because the Lancaster-coached, Chris Robshaw-captained England team was famously good.

No rugby fan in their right minds think that the All Blacks were doing anything but slumping in 2017. You're just proving my point.

He's just OK as a coach.

Unfortunately he's also a big sook.

Would you put him in Jamie Joseph/Tony Brown’s league FujiKiwi?

Jb1981 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:02 am Would you put him in Jamie Joseph/Tony Brown’s league FujiKiwi?

It depends if you consider Japan beating Ireland and Scotland in a world cup better than any of Gatland's achievements.

I do, so no.

Also, Gatland is a whiny, petulant child.

Whereas as long as he's just had a couple of pies (and he usually has), Jamie Joseph radiates good humour and a sunny smile.

when I think Jamie Joseph, I think joviality.

FujiKiwi wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:47 am

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:29 am
What absolute rubbish. When Wales won 6 Nations in 2012 and 2013 they stopped England getting the Grand Slam each time. In 2019 they beat the world cup finalists to do it. When he faced the All Blacks in 2017, they were just off one of their longest unbeaten runs. In fact you could point out it was Gatland who laid the template to defeat the Barrett at 10 ABs team.

Gatland may be going through a bad run now, but he has in the past and gone on to more success.

Yes, because the Lancaster-coached, Chris Robshaw-captained England team was famously good.

No rugby fan in their right minds think that the All Blacks were doing anything but slumping in 2017. You're just proving my point.

He's just OK as a coach.

Unfortunately he's also a big sook.

Tbh the Lancaster-coached, Chris Robshaw-captained England did give the mighty All Blacks a hiding ;)

The NZ slump in 2017 was a sight to see - Rugby Championship played 6 won 6, four try bonus points, +127 points difference, including a 57-0 demolition of South Africa. I wish England could slump like that!

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:56 am
Tbh the Lancaster-coached, Chris Robshaw-captained England did give the mighty All Blacks a hiding ;)

The NZ slump in 2017 was a sight to see - Rugby Championship played 6 won 6, four try bonus points, +127 points difference, including a 57-0 demolition of South Africa. I wish England could slump like that!

Manu Tuliagi went apeshit that day. I still wake up in the night screaming about it.

You've cherry picked some admittedly impressive results from 2017 there, but we were at least beginning our slide.

FujiKiwi wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:00 am

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:56 am
Tbh the Lancaster-coached, Chris Robshaw-captained England did give the mighty All Blacks a hiding ;)

The NZ slump in 2017 was a sight to see - Rugby Championship played 6 won 6, four try bonus points, +127 points difference, including a 57-0 demolition of South Africa. I wish England could slump like that!

Manu Tuliagi went apeshit that day. I still wake up in the night screaming about it.

You've cherry picked some admittedly impressive results from 2017 there, but we were at least beginning our slide.

I don't think you can cherry pick an entire major tournament!

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:01 am

FujiKiwi wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:00 am

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:56 am
Tbh the Lancaster-coached, Chris Robshaw-captained England did give the mighty All Blacks a hiding ;)

The NZ slump in 2017 was a sight to see - Rugby Championship played 6 won 6, four try bonus points, +127 points difference, including a 57-0 demolition of South Africa. I wish England could slump like that!

Manu Tuliagi went apeshit that day. I still wake up in the night screaming about it.

You've cherry picked some admittedly impressive results from 2017 there, but we were at least beginning our slide.

I don't think you can cherry pick an entire major tournament!

Yes, but a comparatively weak Aussie side beat us in the last Bledisloe of the year (And the trajectory continued with South Africa beating us at home the next year). I admit with those stats you've picked out we were doing OK on the surface, but if you track back through what was being said in the kiwi media—and what was being written by kiwis on PR—there were deep misgivings at the time. A real sense that the wins were papering over the cracks and that we were in decline.

History's pretty clear. The All Blacks had a bonus victory lap in 2016 that we should be very grateful for. After that they haven't been that great. Nobody suggests otherwise, from inside or outside NZ.

The All Blacks were flaky in 2017. Step up Warren Gatland. Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

I feel like that's just an example of the impossible standards the ABs set and the correlating impossible standards of AB fans. Whitewashing the RC including giving SA a monumental hiding would be stuff that any other side would be talking about for years.

I'm not holding to unrealistic, perfectionist standards, although I know many AB fans do. I think that after the sublime All Black team of 2015 was broken up, there was a pause before a perceptible decline all the way through to the present day. It's not even that the 2019 team was that bad, but relative to the 2015 team with its wisdom, composure and flair, they fell an awful long way.

Not to take anything away from England and South Africa, which have risen to real heights of their own, now.

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:59 am I feel like that's just an example of the impossible standards the ABs set and the correlating impossible standards of AB fans. Whitewashing the RC including giving SA a monumental hiding would be stuff that any other side would be talking about for years.

I don’t agree on the standards set in this instance.

I was one of those arguing at the time that essentially, results were flattering and deceptive. The really great crashes of All Black history seem to come after a period of dazzling speed and skill have hypnotised the audience into believing there’s an invincibility to the team. Some might even go so far as to suggest a sort of aura...

and the downfall is usually brought about through solid application of the basics so that suffocating defense and greater hunger or urgency at the breakdown stifles the flair and the team is left floundering, trying to remember how to play when you can’t rely on speed and have to work.

That was the problem we could see with that AB side. They were burning opposition teams with speedy movement but they were falling away from hard graft. It was too flaky. Sure, you put a massive win over the Boks in the book and celebrate that... but the Boks were deep into a cycle of pain before rebirth while the Wallabies had been struggling for years.

Impossible standards? I think it was more a case of the writing on the wall and that was ultimately proven in 2019.

Gatland dying on his arse in NZ rugby. Wee shame.

Looking forward to his coaching of the Lions.

Who would have guessed, Shaun Edwards, Robert Howley and the Welsh team were far far more integral to Gatlands success than the English press liked to think.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:12 am Who would have guessed, Shaun Edwards, Robert Howley and the Welsh team were far far more integral to Gatlands success than the English press liked to think.

Didn’t Wales spectacularly fail whenever Gatland was away? And Howley ran the ship.

It’s all very confusing.

On sky I didn’t get to see the post match Gatland whinge? It quickly switched to an Aus game.

Did anyone?

Ymx wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:44 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:12 am Who would have guessed, Shaun Edwards, Robert Howley and the Welsh team were far far more integral to Gatlands success than the English press liked to think.

Didn’t Wales spectacularly fail whenever Gatland was away? And Howley ran the ship.

It’s all very confusing.

On sky I didn’t get to see the post match Gatland whinge? It quickly switched to an Aus game.

Did anyone?

Pretty mixed. If I recall, think we won the championship and beat England by 30 points in the Six Nations before one lions tour. We also get lots of the players picked to tour with the Lions, so Howley couldn't have done that badly.


...lol.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:56 am

Ymx wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:44 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:12 am Who would have guessed, Shaun Edwards, Robert Howley and the Welsh team were far far more integral to Gatlands success than the English press liked to think.

Didn’t Wales spectacularly fail whenever Gatland was away? And Howley ran the ship.

It’s all very confusing.

On sky I didn’t get to see the post match Gatland whinge? It quickly switched to an Aus game.

Did anyone?

Pretty mixed. If I recall, think we won the championship and beat England by 30 points in the Six Nations before one lions tour. We also get lots of the players picked to tour with the Lions, so Howley couldn't have done that badly.


...lol.

I would argue the Wales contingent was very much higher than it would have been without a Welsh coach at the helm of the Lions.

Not sure what England has to do with Warren Gatland's failings as a coach tbh.

At least when he was in charge of Wales whenever they were crap they could at least pull out a big win at home against some hated rival to keep the parochial fans happy.

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:31 am Not sure what England has to do with Warren Gatland's failings as a coach tbh.

At least when he was in charge of Wales whenever they were crap they could at least pull out a big win at home against some hated rival to keep the parochial fans happy.

Gatland was the right coach for Wales, he perfected a limited style and it worked perfectly with the limited resources he had at his disposal...that is absolutely not a criticism.

Regardless of his achievements, which should not be discounted, he is beginning to look a poor fit at the Chiefs. Mind you, look at his assistants, more like mates than a quality coaching team. Only Hill looks to have a future.

Not sure where in Hamilton Aaron Goile is from but the Stuff.co.nz reporter is a nailed on Chiefs fan.

Has a crack at the forward pass in the lead up to the Reece try, which is fair enough, but then has a very ambitious punt calling the Wainui yellow card "harsh but technically correct". Mate, it was a yellow all day long. Wainui has some talent but appears to have rocks for brains.

Of course, there was no mention of the ugly and out of character push of Reece by Weber over the sideline either, a totally unnecessary cheap shot that sent the winger over the hoardings causing him pain.

ASMO wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:18 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:56 am

Ymx wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:44 am

Didn’t Wales spectacularly fail whenever Gatland was away? And Howley ran the ship.

It’s all very confusing.

On sky I didn’t get to see the post match Gatland whinge? It quickly switched to an Aus game.

Did anyone?

Pretty mixed. If I recall, think we won the championship and beat England by 30 points in the Six Nations before one lions tour. We also get lots of the players picked to tour with the Lions, so Howley couldn't have done that badly.


...lol.

I would argue the Wales contingent was very much higher than it would have been without a Welsh coach at the helm of the Lions.

I bet you would.

Gatland picked the players he was comfortable with and who he knew wouldn't suddennly grab the opposition captain by the dick, or get red carded for a swinging arm to the face .

I mean he will probably go all in with these players next time around, after they win the six nations as they usually do before the Lions Tour. (Wales has favourable Home and Away fixtures). So why wouldn't he go with Welsh players of immense experience and discipline.

Tried and tested lions?

You know he picked Liam Williams and Ross Moriarty right

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:38 pmOf course, there was no mention of the ugly and out of character push of Reece by Weber over the sideline either, a totally unnecessary cheap shot that sent the winger over the hoardings causing him pain.

Sort of. Reece was trying his best to be a dick by going for the ball that miles in touch just to prevent the Chiefs getting it, then milked it as he lay on the ground. The ref correctly applied the "woman-beating scum" law in this case.

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:28 pm

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:38 pmOf course, there was no mention of the ugly and out of character push of Reece by Weber over the sideline either, a totally unnecessary cheap shot that sent the winger over the hoardings causing him pain.

Sort of. Reece was trying his best to be a dick by going for the ball that miles in touch just to prevent the Chiefs getting it, then milked it as he lay on the ground. The ref correctly applied the "woman-beating scum" law in this case.

Don’t bring this here please.

Take it out on your “girlfriend” instead

Line6 HXFX wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:56 am

Ymx wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:44 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:12 am Who would have guessed, Shaun Edwards, Robert Howley and the Welsh team were far far more integral to Gatlands success than the English press liked to think.

Didn’t Wales spectacularly fail whenever Gatland was away? And Howley ran the ship.

It’s all very confusing.

On sky I didn’t get to see the post match Gatland whinge? It quickly switched to an Aus game.

Did anyone?

Pretty mixed. If I recall, think we won the championship and beat England by 30 points in the Six Nations before one lions tour. We also get lots of the players picked to tour with the Lions, so Howley couldn't have done that badly.


...lol.

Ah yes, the same season Wales lost at home to Samoa and Argentina

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:38 pm Not sure where in Hamilton Aaron Goile is from but the Stuff.co.nz reporter is a nailed on Chiefs fan.

Has a crack at the forward pass in the lead up to the Reece try, which is fair enough, but then has a very ambitious punt calling the Wainui yellow card "harsh but technically correct". Mate, it was a yellow all day long. Wainui has some talent but appears to have rocks for brains.

Of course, there was no mention of the ugly and out of character push of Reece by Weber over the sideline either, a totally unnecessary cheap shot that sent the winger over the hoardings causing him pain.

Dickish treatment on a player who was being a dick. Ref did it right - the players sorted it out.

I called the Wainui Yellow card before the whistle had even blown.

The "No knock-on" call before the Reece try still has me baffled