NPR

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:25 am

Gumboot wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 7:51 am

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 7:49 am My scary AB backline.
A Smith
Richie Mo
RTS
Leicester
Rieko
Sevu
Will Jordan

Who's on your backs bench?

Fakatava, Beauden, TUJ, ALB, Bridge, Bailyn Sullivan, Jordie Barratt are my second string
Test bench: Fakatava, Beaudie, ALB
In next years RWC I would probably go with TJ Perenara as my number 2 scrumhalf. Purely for his experience. But Fakatava looks like the future to me.

I'd swap Fainga'anuku with Goodhue in that starting line up, as much as I like Leicester... I think he'd be a better option on the bench given he can cover wing and centre.

Given that we're more than likely to see some unsettled selections for a couple of reasons, potential illness or injury and a head coach who can't seem to focus on one settled line up to save himself, I'd like to see Perofeta get some exposure at test level. We need to add depth at 10 and I think he's a candidate to step up.

Yeah that's an exciting line up but I agree with Guy, LF hasn't been playing much at centre and we know Goodhue can do a job.

Looks like we are going to need some new blood at 1st 5

https://www.planetrugby.com/richie-moun ... world-cup/

Richie Mo’unga: All Blacks star seeks overseas move after Rugby World Cup

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby- ... UBNLXQXRU/

Ymx wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 10:56 am Looks like we are going to need some new blood at 1st 5

https://www.planetrugby.com/richie-moun ... world-cup/

Richie Mo’unga: All Blacks star seeks overseas move after Rugby World Cup

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby- ... UBNLXQXRU/

So still no ABs selected from overseas teams? Rassie mentioned in an interview that having a rich French or Japanese club paying the top Boks a wack of cash took a big load off the local outfits budgets. The Boks got a lot stronger once they relaxed the limitations on selecting overseas pros. Having said that, the AB domestic competition has been a lot stronger than the South African.

Ymx wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 10:56 am Looks like we are going to need some new blood at 1st 5

https://www.planetrugby.com/richie-moun ... world-cup/

Richie Mo’unga: All Blacks star seeks overseas move after Rugby World Cup

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby- ... UBNLXQXRU/

Dammit...

I knew something was up when his one year deal was announced over the weekend. No-one signs on for one year if they're keen to stay.

I remember suggesting this could happen months ago on PR. While I wasn't keen on entertaining the thought one of my favourite players could be tempted to go, I felt that Mo'unga in particular would have plenty of reasons to feel his chances were limited if he stayed.

This is something of a legacy that NZR carry... treating good players poorly. Now there are serious options for disenfranchised players... those who feel their best interests aren't served by staying here.

Hopefully it's a wake up call. I wonder how many we'll need before something happens.

On the bright side... well, a slightly less dark spot in the gloom, this opens the door for the younger guys to be included and brought through.

Fuck Fozzie.

He's never quite established himself as our top test 10, so it's probably for the best. Barrett's clearly back ahead of him in the pecking order now. And McKenzie's coming home.

Gumboot wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 6:51 pm He's never quite established himself as our top test 10, so it's probably for the best. Barrett's clearly back ahead of him in the pecking order now. And McKenzie's coming home.

Oh... MacKenzie's coming home?

Fuck me.

Mo'unga was clearly thebetter pick once he was finally acknowledged and selected... Hansen's hand was forced by the DMac injury. Mo'unga immediately provided a clear point of difference in how he ran the game.

Our coaches never accepted that. Hansen set the tone with his petty 'Rolls Royce pack' jibe about Mo'unga at the Saders. It still boggles my mind that a head coach could go to those lengths to publicly shade a player. It's unforgivable... and it served to hammer home the message to Mo'unga that he was on the outer.

Every little mistake he makes is pounced on. Beauden... you know my feelings on this, enjoys a golden run regardless of how shit useless his play can be at times.

Perhaps his skin is just too dark a shade to have him running the All Blacks on field? He's been shovelled into the 'not quite good enough' drawer firmly since the start in the face of clearly inferior or at best equal competition.

I'm not surprised to see him go and I am surprised it's only for two years... although those two years away from the local set up mean he probably won't capitalise on his best years as a test candidate.


Razor confirmed he'd stay in NZ until the RWC as well. His contract was for two more years a year ago. He was the second candidate I suggested could go for a better deal after being fucked around by NZR. Wait and see on that one.

Guy Smiley wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 8:16 pmPerhaps his skin is just too dark a shade to have him running the All Blacks on field?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps (and far more likely imho) it's the fact he's had 22 test starts and been found wanting at critical moments in the biggest games - the Yokohama SF, the first ever loss (and a really bad one) to Argentina), the losses to SA and France last year...

But yeah, perhaps it's all really just down to racism.

Gumboot wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 8:35 pm

Guy Smiley wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 8:16 pmPerhaps his skin is just too dark a shade to have him running the All Blacks on field?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps (and far more likely imho) it's the fact he's had 22 test starts and been found wanting at critical moments in the biggest games - the Yokohama SF, the first ever loss (and a really bad one) to Argentina), the losses to SA and France last year...

But yeah, perhaps it's all really just down to racism.

You're going to blame Mo'unga for the SF loss?

ok... let's just walk away from the conversation.

BB started in the loss to SA last year... Mo'unga only came on near the end... he did struggle in the Irish and French tests though... but so would have BB behind a beaten pack... I thought Richie was sensational against Australia in three tests... and feared that self inflicted break last year might not work out well for him professionally... he had momentum and form. When he came back he had lost both...

BB is retiring after the world cup... I don't blame Mo'unga going to Japan to make some money and preserve his body for two years... he'll come back as the stand out number 10, unless someone comes out of nowhere...

Have any players returned from os stints in good form.

I’d say it’s usually been disastrous for most players form.

Gumboot wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 6:51 pm He's never quite established himself as our top test 10, so it's probably for the best. Barrett's clearly back ahead of him in the pecking order now. And McKenzie's coming home.

Can always call up the ever-loyal Marty Banks!

Ymx wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:22 pm Have any players returned from os stints in good form.

I’d say it’s usually been disastrous for most players form.

Didn't do BB any harm?

Kaino came back and didn't seem to miss a beat?

I thought BB was quite terrible when he returned. Aimless cross kicks, terrible game composure. But it was only a brief stint.

Kaino was nothing of his former self.

BBBR was another casualty of overseas.

There are too many others to mention …

Ymx wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:39 pm I thought BB was quite terrible when he returned. Aimless cross kicks, terrible game composure. But it was only a brief stint.

Kaino was nothing of his former self.

BBBR was another casualty of overseas.

There are too many others to mention …

You don't think Kaino was of the same standard at the 2015 World Cup?

What about Dan Carter after his stint?

Just realised Mo'unga is already 28... so don't blame him really cashing in when he is 30.

Mo’unga’s gone. His AB stint was a cameo.

We need to look at replacements for the 10 jersey. My potential candidates…

Perofeta

Daylight


Love
Gatland
Bourke (I think he’s got the goods actually be we need to see more of him)
Zarn Sullivan (more if a 15/10 than a 10 to me but deserves a look)

Guy Smiley wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 8:42 pmYou're going to blame Mo'unga for the SF loss?

He wasn't solely to blame, but like many others that day he didn't have a very good game, and he missed a couple of crucial tackles.

I think McKenzie can be a fine test 10 given time in the saddle. As for the next cabs off the rank... I like Perofeta and have watched him since he was starring for my old school's first xv when the sprog was there. But, I still have reservations over his sometimes brittle defence, just as I do over Mo'unga's. I'd also like to see Sullivan get a crack there, maybe on an EOYT. I thought Sam Gilbert played very well for the Highlanders in his first start at 10 and was looking forward to seeing how he'd go from there, but then in the next game his brain exploded, so who knows...

Grandpa wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:05 pmBB started in the loss to SA last year... Mo'unga only came on near the end...

Yep, my bad. And yes, he often looks a million bucks against Australia and clearly enjoys playing them, but it's not really Australia I'm worried about. Not sure last year's break is the full reason for his drop in form last year, and I think there's still a question mark over his composure in the must-win tests like the 2019 SF and last year's defeat to France.

Damian MacKenzie is not a Test 10.

McKenzie is not a test 10. I can’t help feeling that Mo’unga has been chronically mismanaged by the ABs and that if this is the end of his AB career (who knows how he will come back from Japan), there’s a huge “if only” hanging over it.

I’ll own my bias towards Mo’unga but he should have been our starting 10 two years before the last World Cup and left to run the team since then. If that had been done I am confident that the ABs would be a better team, Mo’unga a better player and we’d be less likely to be losing our two best 10s in a year and staring into the abyss.

As far as players returning as good from a stint in Japan - Leon MacDonald?

Ymx wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:39 pm I thought BB was quite terrible when he returned. Aimless cross kicks, terrible game composure. But it was only a brief stint.

Kaino was nothing of his former self.

BBBR was another casualty of overseas.

There are too many others to mention …

Rangi, now head coach of the Blues, came back from his sojourn in Japan as a better player.

Jb1981 wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:02 am McKenzie is not a test 10. I can’t help feeling that Mo’unga has been chronically mismanaged by the ABs and that if this is the end of his AB career (who knows how he will come back from Japan), there’s a huge “if only” hanging over it.

I’ll own my bias towards Mo’unga but he should have been our starting 10 two years before the last World Cup and left to run the team since then. If that had been done I am confident that the ABs would be a better team, Mo’unga a better player and we’d be less likely to be losing our two best 10s in a year and staring into the abyss.

As far as players returning as good from a stint in Japan - Leon MacDonald?

Beat me to it

Why isn't McKenzie a test ten?

He's an individual player... tries to do too much on his own. I've seen him almost run in a complete circle trying to make some sort of burst... his first instinct isn't to unleash players outside. He doesn't direct a game with any consistency. I know he can do that at times but it's not his style and he's at a loss playing outside his comfort zone.

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:12 am He's an individual player... tries to do too much on his own. I've seen him almost run in a complete circle trying to make some sort of burst... his first instinct isn't to unleash players outside. He doesn't direct a game with any consistency. I know he can do that at times but it's not his style and he's at a loss playing outside his comfort zone.

He played a test last year at 10. I forget who against. But he was very conservative... just did the basics and was surprisingly disciplined... I wouldn't write him off yet if both Richie and BB are gone...

Grandpa wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:26 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:12 am He's an individual player... tries to do too much on his own. I've seen him almost run in a complete circle trying to make some sort of burst... his first instinct isn't to unleash players outside. He doesn't direct a game with any consistency. I know he can do that at times but it's not his style and he's at a loss playing outside his comfort zone.

He played a test last year at 10. I forget who against. But he was very conservative... just did the basics and was surprisingly disciplined... I wouldn't write him off yet if both Richie and BB are gone...

He has the tools for the job.

Gumboot wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:40 am

Grandpa wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:26 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:12 am He's an individual player... tries to do too much on his own. I've seen him almost run in a complete circle trying to make some sort of burst... his first instinct isn't to unleash players outside. He doesn't direct a game with any consistency. I know he can do that at times but it's not his style and he's at a loss playing outside his comfort zone.

He played a test last year at 10. I forget who against. But he was very conservative... just did the basics and was surprisingly disciplined... I wouldn't write him off yet if both Richie and BB are gone...

He has the tools for the job.

So does Mo'unga...

and yet....

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:59 am

Gumboot wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:40 am

Grandpa wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:26 am

He played a test last year at 10. I forget who against. But he was very conservative... just did the basics and was surprisingly disciplined... I wouldn't write him off yet if both Richie and BB are gone...

He has the tools for the job.

So does Mo'unga...

and yet....

... and yet he's still not the undisputed starter.

D Mac is only a year younger than R Mo.

Ymx wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:53 am D Mac is only a year younger than R Mo.

But he might be the only one still in NZ...

Gumboot wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:29 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:59 am

Gumboot wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:40 am

He has the tools for the job.

So does Mo'unga...

and yet....

... and yet he's still not the undisputed starter.

No. We have the rugby world's equivalent of Mr Bean for a national coach.

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:44 am

Gumboot wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:29 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:59 am

So does Mo'unga...

and yet....

... and yet he's still not the undisputed starter.

No. We have the rugby world's equivalent of Mr Bean for a national coach.

That's harsh on Blackadder... Baldrick might be more appropriate...

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:44 am

Gumboot wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:29 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:59 am

So does Mo'unga...

and yet....

... and yet he's still not the undisputed starter.

No. We have the rugby world's equivalent of Mr Bean for a national coach.

Stop it, you're making my thighs wet.

Jesus Christ. Richie Mo'unga is leaving but that's okay because he's never lived up to his potential. By the way, Damian McKenzie is coming back and I think he could make a good 10, so all is well.



Fuck me. The state of some posters.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:08 pm Jesus Christ. Richie Mo'unga is leaving but that's okay because he's never lived up to his potential. By the way, Damian McKenzie is coming back and I think he could make a good 10, so all is well.



Fuck me. The state of some posters.

Simmer down, Jim. The news of his departure must be very distressing for all you Cantabs right now, but the Faultless One will still be around next year to win us the World Cup.

It's not a Cantab thing for me.... and the relentless grind of interprovincial pettiness is tiring when it comes to discussing individual players and the fortunes of the national team(s).

I'll admit that the dynamic irks me to the point where I can get drawn into being defensive at times over it... but we should be able to chat about this without the lazy labelling of 'Cantabs'.

What shits me about Mo'unga's departure is that it's yet another in a very, very fucking long line of poorly managed player stocks from NZR and their coaching hierarchy. To further illustrate that point... after the next RWC we will lose the services of the only two 10s to have been considered as regular players in the squad. No-one else has been included as a development player.

I'm also dismayed at the idea DMac could even be considered for the role. There's a malaise in the country with regard to the As and selections... having players who are capable of doing flashy things every now and then isn't enough. We are blessed in having an abundance of talent across the park, our backline is the envy of most. We need players who can complement and direct that line... not seek to dominate it.

It's not a Cantab thing with me either, Guy - when it comes to the All Blacks, I really don't give a rat's arse which province they're from. Amusing though how some fans bridle at the mere suggestion that their local superhero isn't completely infallible.

I'm a tad perplexed as to why McKenzie's being written off as a serious option at 10. He's played there at test level already - not a lot, but well enough to show he's up to it - and I think his headless chook days are behind him. Besides, why would a panel of esteemed rugby sages still rate him our third-best option at 10, ahead of Perofeta, when he's not even in the country? Shirley he can't be completely hopeless?

The fact he’s still rated that highly while not playing here says a lot about our… esteemed? sages.

I too do not look through the ABs squad and count the number of players by province or SR team. All I want is for the ABs to be as strong as possible and this requires the coach must have a plan to build a team with not just the best players but also the best combinations to raise the probability of success.

Flip-flopping between two or more players in any given position does not contribute to the above and I would like to see Foster show some signs that he has a clear idea of his best team and starts to play that team as often as possible.