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Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 5:20 pm
by Hellraiser
Slick wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 4:46 pm For all the chat about Putins health he looked perfectly fine at the commemoration day thingy the other day
Are you kidding? He's got a bad case of steroid bloat/moonface. He's definitely not a well man.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 6:47 pm
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 6:48 pm
by Rinkals
Well, the sooner he pops off, the better.

What can be done to rescue the last fighters in Mariupol? Or is it a lost cause?

Can't they hammer the Russians positions with the new artillery?

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 8:54 pm
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 8:59 pm
by Camroc2
Rinkals wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:48 pm Well, the sooner he pops off, the better.

What can be done to rescue the last fighters in Mariupol? Or is it a lost cause?

Can't they hammer the Russians positions with the new artillery?
The minute they went down the tunnels, they knew they were making a "blood sacrifice". They were worried about getting the civilians out, and now appear to have done so. Any victory that Putin now announces in Mariupol will be the very definition of pyrrhic, as Ukraine has started the counter offensive. Whatever their origins, there'll be statues and memorials to these guys in a free Ukraine.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 9:22 pm
by bogbunny
Camroc2 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 8:59 pm
Rinkals wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:48 pm Well, the sooner he pops off, the better.

What can be done to rescue the last fighters in Mariupol? Or is it a lost cause?

Can't they hammer the Russians positions with the new artillery?
The minute they went down the tunnels, they knew they were making a "blood sacrifice". They were worried about getting the civilians out, and now appear to have done so. Any victory that Putin now announces in Mariupol will be the very definition of pyrrhic, as Ukraine has started the counter offensive. Whatever their origins, there'll be statues and memorials to these guys in a free Ukraine.
TBH a lot of the free world will remember them. Nothing like it in the last 70 odd years, certainly that has got widespread coverage. The video of that young female soldier signing in the ruins and facing likely death, or worse, is totally moving.

F Putin, F Russia

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 9:52 pm
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 9:54 pm
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 10:00 pm
by fishfoodie
bogbunny wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 9:22 pm
Camroc2 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 8:59 pm
Rinkals wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:48 pm Well, the sooner he pops off, the better.

What can be done to rescue the last fighters in Mariupol? Or is it a lost cause?

Can't they hammer the Russians positions with the new artillery?
The minute they went down the tunnels, they knew they were making a "blood sacrifice". They were worried about getting the civilians out, and now appear to have done so. Any victory that Putin now announces in Mariupol will be the very definition of pyrrhic, as Ukraine has started the counter offensive. Whatever their origins, there'll be statues and memorials to these guys in a free Ukraine.
TBH a lot of the free world will remember them. Nothing like it in the last 70 odd years, certainly that has got widespread coverage. The video of that young female soldier signing in the ruins and facing likely death, or worse, is totally moving.

F Putin, F Russia
The only vaguely possible alternative, was that Ukraine was/is able to get enough Russian hostages or assets, & says to Putin, that they'll trade them for Mariupol defenders.

But that would rely upon Putin putting any value on human life, & that's a losing position.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 10:00 pm
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 10:31 pm
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:14 pm
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:23 pm
by fishfoodie
Hellraiser wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 10:31 pm
Story mirrors a lot of the other ones, the, "Start Up", versus the, "Multinational".

The Multinational has a hundred tiers of management between the operator & the decision, & the Start Up just says to the operator to, "get it done", & watch the costs.

The Russian armed forces never ditched the USSR's structure, just stacked more layers on top, while the Ukrainians had no choice but to disperse command after 2014, & they're reaping the benefits this time around.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:28 pm
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:34 pm
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:36 pm
by Hellraiser
Image

:lol:

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 12:03 am
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 12:13 am
by Niegs
Hellraiser wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:34 pm

I thought some separatists or maybe the Chechens were wearing green tape?

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 12:40 am
by Hellraiser
Niegs wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:13 am
Hellraiser wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:34 pm

I thought some separatists or maybe the Chechens were wearing green tape?
No, Ukrainians. They've been switching colours in different areas due to infiltrators. Still yellow in the West/South West where there is no Russian presence, blue/green in Central Ukraine and green in the East.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 12:57 am
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 1:38 am
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 6:56 am
by Rinkals
Camroc2 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 8:59 pm
Rinkals wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:48 pm Well, the sooner he pops off, the better.

What can be done to rescue the last fighters in Mariupol? Or is it a lost cause?

Can't they hammer the Russians positions with the new artillery?
The minute they went down the tunnels, they knew they were making a "blood sacrifice". They were worried about getting the civilians out, and now appear to have done so. Any victory that Putin now announces in Mariupol will be the very definition of pyrrhic, as Ukraine has started the counter offensive. Whatever their origins, there'll be statues and memorials to these guys in a free Ukraine.
I'm sure that will be a great comfort to them.

Frankly, if I were holed up and under constant bombardment, I'd want to know that the enemy weren't shelling me in comfort with their feet up, having tea and biscuits while they reload their munitions.

We hear of advances being made around Kharkiv; are the Russian positions around an in Mariopul so well defended that they are impervious to attack?

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 7:04 am
by TB63

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 7:52 am
by Biffer
Rinkals wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 6:56 am
Camroc2 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 8:59 pm
Rinkals wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:48 pm Well, the sooner he pops off, the better.

What can be done to rescue the last fighters in Mariupol? Or is it a lost cause?

Can't they hammer the Russians positions with the new artillery?
The minute they went down the tunnels, they knew they were making a "blood sacrifice". They were worried about getting the civilians out, and now appear to have done so. Any victory that Putin now announces in Mariupol will be the very definition of pyrrhic, as Ukraine has started the counter offensive. Whatever their origins, there'll be statues and memorials to these guys in a free Ukraine.
I'm sure that will be a great comfort to them.

Frankly, if I were holed up and under constant bombardment, I'd want to know that the enemy weren't shelling me in comfort with their feet up, having tea and biscuits while they reload their munitions.

We hear of advances being made around Kharkiv; are the Russian positions around an in Mariopul so well defended that they are impervious to attack?
Kharkiv is the priority as it makes Russian logistics more difficult by cutting off the train line from Russia, making their resupply go a lot further east.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 8:02 am
by Blake
fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:23 pm
Hellraiser wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 10:31 pm
Story mirrors a lot of the other ones, the, "Start Up", versus the, "Multinational".

The Multinational has a hundred tiers of management between the operator & the decision, & the Start Up just says to the operator to, "get it done", & watch the costs.

The Russian armed forces never ditched the USSR's structure, just stacked more layers on top, while the Ukrainians had no choice but to disperse command after 2014, & they're reaping the benefits this time around.
It’s exactly that and a fascinating case study.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:01 am
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:08 am
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:12 am
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 10:23 am
by Hellraiser
https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1kvJpAEDaMZxE

Walter Report has been hosting continuous Twitter chat on Ukraine in all military, political, and economic spheres the last few days. The streams last 16+ hours a day so you can dip in and out. Some really good discussions and knowledge being shared.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 10:40 am
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 11:31 am
by laurent
On the war crime front on top of the CNN CCTV report

There are now a lot more stories coming out with rape and torture of civilians

Le monde has a few stories today (this is not nice reading )

https://www.lemonde.fr/international/ar ... _3210.html

https://www.lemonde.fr/international/ar ... _3210.html

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 11:34 am
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 11:52 am
by Hellraiser
Rumours floating around that either the LSV Vsevolod Bobrov or LSV Elbrus has been sunk by the Ukrainians near Snake Island.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 12:41 pm
by petej
Hellraiser wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 11:34 am
That would indicate that the pushback of Russia troops near kharkiv is actually near where the greatest density Russian forces are.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 12:44 pm
by Hellraiser
petej wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:41 pm
Hellraiser wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 11:34 am
That would indicate that the pushback of Russia troops near kharkiv is actually near where the greatest density Russian forces are.
The great red splotch is probably Kupiansk.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 1:01 pm
by Grandpa
Hellraiser wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:44 pm
petej wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:41 pm
Hellraiser wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 11:34 am
That would indicate that the pushback of Russia troops near kharkiv is actually near where the greatest density Russian forces are.
The great red splotch is probably Kupiansk.
See to be a bit west of Kupiansk, around Chuhuiv?

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 1:10 pm
by Tilly Orifice
Looks more like Staryi Saltiv. How old is the data?

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 2:42 pm
by Hellraiser

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 3:24 pm
by Biffer
Interesting Long Read in the Guardian about the memory of nuclear war
We’ve seen in other contexts what happens when our experience of a risk attenuates. In rich countries, the waning memory of preventable diseases has fed the anti-vaccination movement. “People have become complacent,” notes epidemiologist Peter Salk, whose father, Jonas Salk, invented the polio vaccine. Not having lived through a polio epidemic, parents are rejecting vaccines to the point where measles and whooping cough are coming back and many have needlessly died of Covid-19.

That is the danger with nuclear war.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... -dangerous

I'm very conscious of this. I'm 51, so was 18 when the cold war ended. My childhood and teenage years had an existential terror hanging over them. Anyone who's more than a few years younger than me doesn't remember that, and doesn't really realise what the overarching fear of nuclear war was during the cold war. I remember having regular nightmares about nuclear war when I was a kid, and I know many of my friends did as well. This worries me very much.

Re: What's going on in Ukraine?

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 3:51 pm
by fishfoodie
Biffer wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:24 pm Interesting Long Read in the Guardian about the memory of nuclear war
We’ve seen in other contexts what happens when our experience of a risk attenuates. In rich countries, the waning memory of preventable diseases has fed the anti-vaccination movement. “People have become complacent,” notes epidemiologist Peter Salk, whose father, Jonas Salk, invented the polio vaccine. Not having lived through a polio epidemic, parents are rejecting vaccines to the point where measles and whooping cough are coming back and many have needlessly died of Covid-19.

That is the danger with nuclear war.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... -dangerous

I'm very conscious of this. I'm 51, so was 18 when the cold war ended. My childhood and teenage years had an existential terror hanging over them. Anyone who's more than a few years younger than me doesn't remember that, and doesn't really realise what the overarching fear of nuclear war was during the cold war. I remember having regular nightmares about nuclear war when I was a kid, and I know many of my friends did as well. This worries me very much.
Sticking Threads on the Beeb some evening would give people a flavour of what we were afraid of in the 80s.