Biffer wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:23 pm
The chatter I heard was that he got his cock out on stage and that was what led to this. Not sure if that's true or not, but I could understand the venue reacting if it was true as they normally have to give warnings of nudity
Isn't that part of his act.
Supposedly the flyer for the show says he will get his todger out.
Yes, it's a bit about wanting to get cancelled, based on the activities of Louis CK.
Biffer wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:23 pm
The chatter I heard was that he got his cock out on stage and that was what led to this. Not sure if that's true or not, but I could understand the venue reacting if it was true as they normally have to give warnings of nudity
Isn't that part of his act.
Supposedly the flyer for the show says he will get his todger out.
Yes, it's a bit about wanting to get cancelled, based on the activities of Louis CK.
I do find it funny when newspapers try to pretend that looking at social media is the same as journalism. When that article states "the comedian himself confirmed in a statement shared with The Independent" what they actually mean is that they copied his statement from Twitter.
I do find it funny when newspapers try to pretend that looking at social media is the same as journalism. When that article states "the comedian himself confirmed in a statement shared with The Independent" what they actually mean is that they copied his statement from Twitter.
Let's not pretend newspapers employ real journalists these days.
Doesn't he often get his cock out on stage? I thought it was a bit he did.
I thought his promo stuff specifically said he did
He does knob jokes and gets his out as part of it, has done for years.
As well as the 18+ rating and the following on the Fringe booking site, "Warnings and additional info: This show contains strong language and themes some may find distressing."
He also wrote this,
Description
Jerry Sadowitz returns with his whacky impressions of Greta Thunberg, Frankie Boyle and deep vein thrombosis. He also promises to do less hate-fuelled swearing and focus more on faux liberal pish in order to appeal to the middle class and their disposable income and personalities. 'Please note that I might just do card tricks and say nothing for a whole hour or I might just do the usual "screaming fascist" schtick. Or both. Patrons may wish to drink alcohol pre-show to avoid boredom, embarrassment and guilt.'
It's difficult to argue that patrons would be surprised at his show.
I'll just reiterate though, he is never punching down in his act.
He does 'Paki' jokes.
Of course these are different to when certain other comedians do 'Paki' jokes.
There's a very simply rule for comedians: just be funny.
I thought his promo stuff specifically said he did
He does knob jokes and gets his out as part of it, has done for years.
As well as the 18+ rating and the following on the Fringe booking site, "Warnings and additional info: This show contains strong language and themes some may find distressing."
He also wrote this,
Description
Jerry Sadowitz returns with his whacky impressions of Greta Thunberg, Frankie Boyle and deep vein thrombosis. He also promises to do less hate-fuelled swearing and focus more on faux liberal pish in order to appeal to the middle class and their disposable income and personalities. 'Please note that I might just do card tricks and say nothing for a whole hour or I might just do the usual "screaming fascist" schtick. Or both. Patrons may wish to drink alcohol pre-show to avoid boredom, embarrassment and guilt.'
It's difficult to argue that patrons would be surprised at his show.
I'll just reiterate though, he is never punching down in his act.
He does 'Paki' jokes.
Of course these are different to when certain other comedians do 'Paki' jokes.
There's a very simply rule for comedians: just be funny.
His own description of his act there is the closest I've ever seen him come to describing what he is doing, usually he lets the audience decide for themselves, some poor unfortunates think he's the same as "J** D******* " (as he himself put it).
I first came across him in 1988's Total Abuse Show, he's always eviscerated racists and 'phobes of any description.
The rules aren't so simplistic, it's more, "is there a butt of your joke?"
If no then fill your boots.
If yes then is the butt of the joke more powerful or less powerful than you?
The shorthand is never punch down, you don't get taller by denigrating a marginalised group, you only show yourself as a wanker.
Re: Jerry Sadowitz
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:47 pm
by salanya
Some comedians like to ride the line between being funny/entertaining and being plain offensive.
This situation raises a fair question for society: when is someone being 'funny' offensive, and when are they being 'unacceptable' offensive. Is racism or anti-semetism funny so long as someone claims it's part of a joke?
Personally I wouldn't seek out a comedian who describes his own act as 'fascist schtick'.
Should he be cancelled? Perhaps not, but it's the venue's right to decide when someone's content is beyond what they find acceptable - you'd imagine the content went beyond his known standard.
This guy sounds like the opposite side of the same coin as Frankie Boyle (anno 2022, there was more variety to his act 10+ years ago), when the entertainment factor is mainly about being offensive and calling people cnuts.
And then they complain, 'how dare people be offended', when that was their objective all along.
This type of comedy is not for me, but at the same time, who decides on what does and what doesn't deserve to be cancelled? And cancelling will only drive this type of act and those that like this type of content in dodgy reactive corners, so if venues are happy to host these acts in public then that's fair enough.
Just as it's fair enough if a venue judges that the act is going beyond their standards.
He does knob jokes and gets his out as part of it, has done for years.
As well as the 18+ rating and the following on the Fringe booking site, "Warnings and additional info: This show contains strong language and themes some may find distressing."
He also wrote this,
Description
Jerry Sadowitz returns with his whacky impressions of Greta Thunberg, Frankie Boyle and deep vein thrombosis. He also promises to do less hate-fuelled swearing and focus more on faux liberal pish in order to appeal to the middle class and their disposable income and personalities. 'Please note that I might just do card tricks and say nothing for a whole hour or I might just do the usual "screaming fascist" schtick. Or both. Patrons may wish to drink alcohol pre-show to avoid boredom, embarrassment and guilt.'
It's difficult to argue that patrons would be surprised at his show.
I'll just reiterate though, he is never punching down in his act.
He does 'Paki' jokes.
Of course these are different to when certain other comedians do 'Paki' jokes.
There's a very simply rule for comedians: just be funny.
His own description of his act there is the closest I've ever seen him come to describing what he is doing, usually he lets the audience decide for themselves, some poor unfortunates think he's the same as "J** D******* " (as he himself put it).
I first came across him in 1988's Total Abuse Show, he's always eviscerated racists and 'phobes of any description.
The rules aren't so simplistic, it's more, "is there a butt of your joke?"
If no then fill your boots.
If yes then is the butt of the joke more powerful or less powerful than you?
The shorthand is never punch down, you don't get taller by denigrating a marginalised group, you only show yourself as a wanker.
How about, is it funny? Does that matter any more?
There are so many nowadays who treat comedy like fashion. They laugh at the comedians they think are trendy or make them look clever. Ironically I find the post-rationalisation used to describe why an old man getting his cock out on stage and using language like Paki and Nigger far more amusing than anything Sadowitz can muster nowadays.
Re: Jerry Sadowitz
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:01 pm
by salanya
Well, that's the question - what makes something funny, and who decides what is funny?
Humour is subjective even within the 'safe' areas - I mean, some people think Mrs Brown's Boys is funny....
Of course these are different to when certain other comedians do 'Paki' jokes.
There's a very simply rule for comedians: just be funny.
His own description of his act there is the closest I've ever seen him come to describing what he is doing, usually he lets the audience decide for themselves, some poor unfortunates think he's the same as "J** D******* " (as he himself put it).
I first came across him in 1988's Total Abuse Show, he's always eviscerated racists and 'phobes of any description.
The rules aren't so simplistic, it's more, "is there a butt of your joke?"
If no then fill your boots.
If yes then is the butt of the joke more powerful or less powerful than you?
The shorthand is never punch down, you don't get taller by denigrating a marginalised group, you only show yourself as a wanker.
How about, is it funny? Does that matter any more?
Well, you're either laughing at #ists and #phobes or you're laughing with them. I think there is a huge difference, and ridicule is a very powerful weapon.
There are so many nowadays who treat comedy like fashion. They laugh at the comedians they think are trendy or make them look clever. Ironically I find the post-rationalisation used to describe why an old man getting his cock out on stage and using language like Paki and Nigger far more amusing than anything Sadowitz can muster nowadays.
You've seen his act recently then?
To be honest I don't understand your second comment, and it's not just the English used, the people who have posted here against the ban have said they've seen his act over many years, in my case since 1988, so it's as fashionable as a Phil Collins single.
Sadowitz is remarkably adept at avoiding success, fame or fortune.
Re: Jerry Sadowitz
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:16 pm
by Random1
To be fair to the venue, if it were staff making the complaints, then aren’t they in a tough spot? An employer has legal responsibilities in terms of preventing hostile work spaces.
Just to be clear though; I’m not supporting it, as I see this as just another example of the left needing to enforce their views as the only acceptable option.
Re: Jerry Sadowitz
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:55 pm
by Kawazaki
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:10 pm
Well, you're either laughing at #ists and #phobes or you're laughing with them. I think there is a huge difference, and ridicule is a very powerful weapon.
How about I just enjoy comedy based on whether it is funny or not without having to reconcile it, justify it and post-rationalise why it's ok?
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:10 pm
Well, you're either laughing at #ists and #phobes or you're laughing with them. I think there is a huge difference, and ridicule is a very powerful weapon.
How about I just enjoy comedy based on whether it is funny or not without having to reconcile it, justify it and post-rationalise why it's ok?
Well, personally I like to think about what I'm seeing, especially if the content is controversial.
It doesn't have to be controversial to be good, Tim Vine has one of the funniest shows I've seen and it's just silly puns.
Re: Jerry Sadowitz
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:24 pm
by Kawazaki
Jerry Sadowitz gets sympathy and support...
Re: Jerry Sadowitz
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:08 am
by Uncle fester
Isn't the whole point of "fringe" to be edgy and controversial?
Re: Jerry Sadowitz
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:08 am
by Biffer
Uncle fester wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:08 am
Isn't the whole point of "fringe" to be edgy and controversial?
Not really been to the Edinburgh Fringe then? The big venues are about money.
Re: Jerry Sadowitz
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:11 am
by Uncle fester
I have not but the implication is in the name.
Re: Jerry Sadowitz
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:15 am
by Dinsdale Piranha
Uncle fester wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:11 am
I have not but the implication is in the name.
It was once - that was a long time ago.
For a last few years there has been a "Free Fringe" which is the reaction to the over commercialization of the Fringe. The last time I went, some of the best stuff I saw was in the Free Fringe and was free - obvs you donate generously if it's good.
Uncle fester wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:08 am
Isn't the whole point of "fringe" to be edgy and controversial?
Not really been to the Edinburgh Fringe then? The big venues are about money.
It's a fashion sell these days much as Glastonbury is.
Didn’t say that. The big venues are about money. But when you look at places like Summerhall, CVenues, theSpace, and many of the other smaller places, it’s still about the art in a very substantial way. And there’s still great stuff on at the main venues as well.
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:56 pm
I don't know who the three guys in that video are. After looking up the name Mark Dolan, it seems he co-hosted "If Katie Hopkins Ruled The World" with Hopkins.
I've never watched GBNews, but I do know that it's home to some people, Farage, Neil Oliver, with whom I fundamentally disagree.
I think the Pleasance has got the Sadowitz decision wrong, but that doesn't mean GB News is any less wrong.
I'd never even heard of GB news. I was searching for an explanation of what Sadowitz had done to be banned (note that Pleasance has passed judgement whilst refusing to state upon what basis its judgement was made). It looked very Sky like as a channel but the criticism of Pleasance seemed accurate and was funny to me.
You’ve not heard of GB news?
Are you joking?
Andrew Neil involved in setting it up
Promoted as the Fox News of UK
Anti -woke
Hated by lefties as right wing
Sponsorship dramas
…
Amazingly it was until last week owned by The Discovery Channel.
Uncle fester wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:08 am
Isn't the whole point of "fringe" to be edgy and controversial?
Not really been to the Edinburgh Fringe then? The big venues are about money.
It's a fashion sell these days much as Glastonbury is.
My understanding it was started by some comics who couldn't get into the main Edinburgh festival so decided just have an ad-hoc one on the fringe and it it went from there
Not really been to the Edinburgh Fringe then? The big venues are about money.
It's a fashion sell these days much as Glastonbury is.
Didn’t say that. The big venues are about money. But when you look at places like Summerhall, CVenues, theSpace, and many of the other smaller places, it’s still about the art in a very substantial way. And there’s still great stuff on at the main venues as well.
The quality of shows is generally good all round but the conditions imposed by the main venues disourage risk taking.
I was chatting to a some performers last time I was at the fringe and they said to put on a show at the major venues you had to guarantee 70% occupancy i.e. if you sell fewer than 70% of the seats you have to make up the difference yourself. That's a bankrupting size problem for a small, risky show. This is combined with massive price hikes for tickets.
When I first went to the fringe in 1991, a cheap student production was £2 - £3. That's around a fiver in todays money. These days most stuff is close to 15 quid which makes seeing a shite show really painful.
All the most innovative stuff I saw last time was from the free fringe. Often in a pub where the landlord is happy to have plenty of punters in during the afternoon.
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:44 pm
It's a fashion sell these days much as Glastonbury is.
Didn’t say that. The big venues are about money. But when you look at places like Summerhall, CVenues, theSpace, and many of the other smaller places, it’s still about the art in a very substantial way. And there’s still great stuff on at the main venues as well.
The quality of shows is generally good all round but the conditions imposed by the main venues disourage risk taking.
I was chatting to a some performers last time I was at the fringe and they said to put on a show at the major venues you had to guarantee 70% occupancy i.e. if you sell fewer than 70% of the seats you have to make up the difference yourself. That's a bankrupting size problem for a small, risky show. This is combined with massive price hikes for tickets.
When I first went to the fringe in 1991, a cheap student production was £2 - £3. That's around a fiver in todays money. These days most stuff is close to 15 quid which makes seeing a shite show really painful.
All the most innovative stuff I saw last time was from the free fringe. Often in a pub where the landlord is happy to have plenty of punters in during the afternoon.
That’s the worry I have for this year. I’ve seen some pretty good, well reviewed shows with poor sales. There’s been a substantially smaller than usual crowd this year
Didn’t say that. The big venues are about money. But when you look at places like Summerhall, CVenues, theSpace, and many of the other smaller places, it’s still about the art in a very substantial way. And there’s still great stuff on at the main venues as well.
The quality of shows is generally good all round but the conditions imposed by the main venues disourage risk taking.
I was chatting to a some performers last time I was at the fringe and they said to put on a show at the major venues you had to guarantee 70% occupancy i.e. if you sell fewer than 70% of the seats you have to make up the difference yourself. That's a bankrupting size problem for a small, risky show. This is combined with massive price hikes for tickets.
When I first went to the fringe in 1991, a cheap student production was £2 - £3. That's around a fiver in todays money. These days most stuff is close to 15 quid which makes seeing a shite show really painful.
All the most innovative stuff I saw last time was from the free fringe. Often in a pub where the landlord is happy to have plenty of punters in during the afternoon.
That’s the worry I have for this year. I’ve seen some pretty good, well reviewed shows with poor sales. There’s been a substantially smaller than usual crowd this year
When I first started going to the Fringe in 1981 we went to every show we could find that was free or less than a fiver - saw some brilliant and some shite shows. Even then there were those shows and/or venues which were too expensive. It has always been thus and always will be thus. The thrill of finding a good show in a small venue costing a few quid will always be the highlight of the Fringe but you have to put up with some shite in between. It is all good fun though that's the point of the Fringe.
One of the best wee venues for years has been Captains Bar in South College Street, seen some great short plays to fantastic rhythm and blues plus benefit of good beer and whisky and often some free food for the punters. Worth a visit.
