NPR

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:35 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:32 am I like that being held up over the line results in a goal line drop out to the defence rather than an attacking scrum. It punishes unimaginative, repetitive pick and go attack. If teams aren't smart or skilful enough to get it wider and exploit space then they get what they deserve.

I still prefer unimaginative, repetitive pick and go attacks to the "crosskick pass to the winger"

Yes, but you're South African

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:35 am

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:35 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:32 am I like that being held up over the line results in a goal line drop out to the defence rather than an attacking scrum. It punishes unimaginative, repetitive pick and go attack. If teams aren't smart or skilful enough to get it wider and exploit space then they get what they deserve.

I still prefer unimaginative, repetitive pick and go attacks to the "crosskick pass to the winger"

Yes, but you're not Irish

Fixed

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:36 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:35 am

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:35 am

I still prefer unimaginative, repetitive pick and go attacks to the "crosskick pass to the winger"

Yes, but you're not Irish

Fixed

They're all about the loop.

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:41 am
They're all about the loop.

True

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:32 am I like that being held up over the line results in a goal line drop out to the defence rather than an attacking scrum. It punishes unimaginative, repetitive pick and go attack. If teams aren't smart or skilful enough to get it wider and exploit space then they get what they deserve.

Specific water breaks called by the ref are a good thing that don't go far enough in keeping coaches off the pitch.

It was better when head contact was pretty much always a red. At the very least, we all knew where we stood. The current mitigation system they put in to try and appease some of the whinging about too many reds and lack of empathy for the players is an inconsistent mess that does very little either for the reputation of officials or for player safety.

I actually hate that bloody law change, it's not always the pick and go's that are held up. Sometimes it's clean line breaks with some brilliant rugby by the attacking team, with the scramble defence just able to make the tackle and holding the player up. Decision? Attacking team lose possession and defending team drop kick the ball down the field. For me, it takes all the momentum out of stage of the game. It's like reset button being pressed at key moments in the game.

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:41 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:32 am I like that being held up over the line results in a goal line drop out to the defence rather than an attacking scrum. It punishes unimaginative, repetitive pick and go attack. If teams aren't smart or skilful enough to get it wider and exploit space then they get what they deserve.

Specific water breaks called by the ref are a good thing that don't go far enough in keeping coaches off the pitch.

It was better when head contact was pretty much always a red. At the very least, we all knew where we stood. The current mitigation system they put in to try and appease some of the whinging about too many reds and lack of empathy for the players is an inconsistent mess that does very little either for the reputation of officials or for player safety.

I actually hate that bloody law change, it's not always the pick and go's that are held up. Sometimes it's clean line breaks with some brilliant rugby by the attacking team, with the scramble defence just able to make the tackle and holding the player up. Decision? Attacking team lose possession and defending team drop kick the ball down the field. For me, it takes all the momentum out of stage of the game. It's like reset button being pressed at key moments in the game.

Which is bloody difficult and a skill worth rewarding. We don't generally remember the failed attempts to hold up, but they're more frequent, especially when the attacker ends up over the line from more open play.

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:12 pm

Hugo wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:31 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:04 pm Your spicy/controversial rugby opinions.

I'll start:

The influence of League players and coaches (including Sean Edwards) has been malign and left us with a worse and less attractive game than it otherwise would have been.

One thing that definitely grates is that even after two decades of professionalism coaches with a League background are still afforded more respect than they have earned.

I'm not sure that's true.

They have changed everything about Union defence, the modern Union defence entirely comes from League.

The dummy runners and pull backs come from League, as do the spectacular acrobatic leaps into the corner that every professional Union winger practices on what looks like a high jump landing mat.
I don't watch enough League to see if the lines of running against the grain come from there but it wouldn't surprise me.

My complaint is that absolutely anyone from a league background is treated like some God like authority, on, for example, defence.

England did a youtube feature on one of their ex league coaches during last years 6 Nations and in the feature his league background was bigged up. However, nothing he said or did in the feature was particularly impressive.

weegie01 wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:14 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:00 am

Niegs wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:53 pm

Same. Women's rugby has even headed that way with the pre-planned pods and punts to the corner (Ferns and France not so much, but facing coaching changes). Even my own Canada got on my nerves in the RWC as they'd scream and come sprinting in for back pats like Saracens when they won the penalty lotto at the breakdown/scrum time. Loud and enthusiastic clapping in the face of opponents who give away a penalty...

I could really do without all of that, it really drags the game into the sewer.

I know a guy who joined Melrose and is a famously niggly player prone to verbals. Some time ago, after one of his early matches, he was taken aside by the coach and told to stop it or he'll be dropped. Melrose had made decision that they they will enforce values of respect on the pitch, and whilst they may batter the opposition physically, all the little niggly stuff will stop. I have no idea if they sustained this. I am shooting with my sons this PM and will find out.

I appreciate hearing this!

In my role, I wondered where kids learned these values as it wasn't part of our 'curriculum' - the youth section is very new in this club. Most coaches are great, all good, and have the right attitude. Though I heard from a couple that two others might be taking things too seriously. We had a polite chat about values and aims. I recommended to the club once my internship ended that they need a vice-president: youth to establish and sew these things into a more robust curriculum for all age grade coaches because hiring youth coordinators each season (four months) wasn't enough to instill these deep messages, if they even make it a focus.

I'm not sure youth coaches make it a priority when the focus is winning a league? The RFU had to bring a system-wide rule to ensure kids get at least half a game. Do coaches also talk about respect, fair play, controlled aggression, teamship, etc.?

Niegs wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:42 pm

weegie01 wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:14 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:00 am

I could really do without all of that, it really drags the game into the sewer.

I know a guy who joined Melrose and is a famously niggly player prone to verbals. Some time ago, after one of his early matches, he was taken aside by the coach and told to stop it or he'll be dropped. Melrose had made decision that they they will enforce values of respect on the pitch, and whilst they may batter the opposition physically, all the little niggly stuff will stop. I have no idea if they sustained this. I am shooting with my sons this PM and will find out.

I appreciate hearing this!

In my role, I wondered where kids learned these values as it wasn't part of our 'curriculum' - the youth section is very new in this club. Most coaches are great, all good, and have the right attitude. Though I heard from a couple that two others might be taking things too seriously. We had a polite chat about values and aims. I recommended to the club once my internship ended that they need a vice-president: youth to establish and sew these things into a more robust curriculum for all age grade coaches because hiring youth coordinators each season (four months) wasn't enough to instill these deep messages, if they even make it a focus.

I'm not sure youth coaches make it a priority when the focus is winning a league? The RFU had to bring a system-wide rule to ensure kids get at least half a game. Do coaches also talk about respect, fair play, controlled aggression, teamship, etc.?

A substantial chunk (majority?) of parents and coaches are arseholes who don't understand the game and lack perspective on what winning means in a U14s match. Most teams I encountered tacitly or directly encouraged barracking the ref, few would restrain a kid whose aggression is out of control if it might benefit the team and as you say it took a central policy to give kids a game!
These things are all minor but I'll never forget being on the bench for our U13 County Cup semi (away, c.50 mile drive) and not coming on with a coach directly telling me 'we actually need to win this game' as the reason. I'm sure there are examples of this up and down the country.

I'd suggest nothing has changed and my response is the same as I've had to a few things we've had to deal with with my cricket club's juniors 'what do these parents say when asked what they did with their weekend at work the next day?'.
'I told a spotty 17 yo/ageing club volunteer ref to fuck off because he gave a decision against my son's team'
'I stopped a bunch of kids getting on the pitch to ensure we won a U15s league match'
'I offered another parent a fight in the car park during the match'
'I stepped in to ref a match and blatantly cheated to ensure my son's team won'
'I told a 14 year old he was justified in stamping on an opposition player's head because he'd got away with a bad tackle in the first half'

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:53 pm
A substantial chunk (majority?) of parents and coaches are arseholes who don't understand the game and lack perspective on what winning means in a U14s match. Most teams I encountered tacitly or directly encouraged barracking the ref, few would restrain a kid whose aggression is out of control if it might benefit the team and as you say it took a central policy to give kids a game!
These things are all minor but I'll never forget being on the bench for our U13 County Cup semi (away, c.50 mile drive) and not coming on with a coach directly telling me 'we actually need to win this game' as the reason. I'm sure there are examples of this up and down the country.

I'd suggest nothing has changed and my response is the same as I've had to a few things we've had to deal with with my cricket club's juniors 'what do these parents say when asked what they did with their weekend at work the next day?'.
'I told a spotty 17 yo/ageing club volunteer ref to fuck off because he gave a decision against my son's team'
'I stopped a bunch of kids getting on the pitch to ensure we won a U15s league match'
'I offered another parent a fight in the car park during the match'
'I stepped in to ref a match and blatantly cheated to ensure my son's team won'
'I told a 14 year old he was justified in stamping on an opposition player's head because he'd got away with a bad tackle in the first half'

I like that bit about considering how someone spent their weekend. In general, we try to continually remind everyone, we're here to have fun and to learn something new, while keeping safe and with a smile on our faces. The only metric that should matter is that they come back because they enjoy it.

I didn't go as far as tracking those who don't or even having an end-of-season exit interview, but in researching found a club in the south of England that has a 'Missing Player' policy where they'll reach out of someone doesn't show for three in a row, asking how things are going, help if needed, or if things can be better if they feel they're not coming back.

Rugby is in a weird holding pattern at best and a death spiral at worst and needs a total reboot. Tinkering with the laws isn't enough. We still end up with a huge number of them being ignored or interpreted in wildly different ways or misunderstood; safety is a huge problem and the sport overwhelmingly skews towards physical dominance and encourages physicality uber alles.

Competitive board / card / video games inherently understand the need for major surgery to deal with emergent, game-warping problems. Regular sports are inherently super conservative by comparison.

Niegs wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:42 pm

weegie01 wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:14 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:00 am

I could really do without all of that, it really drags the game into the sewer.

I know a guy who joined Melrose and is a famously niggly player prone to verbals. Some time ago, after one of his early matches, he was taken aside by the coach and told to stop it or he'll be dropped. Melrose had made decision that they they will enforce values of respect on the pitch, and whilst they may batter the opposition physically, all the little niggly stuff will stop. I have no idea if they sustained this. I am shooting with my sons this PM and will find out.

I appreciate hearing this!

In my role, I wondered where kids learned these values as it wasn't part of our 'curriculum' - the youth section is very new in this club. Most coaches are great, all good, and have the right attitude. Though I heard from a couple that two others might be taking things too seriously. We had a polite chat about values and aims. I recommended to the club once my internship ended that they need a vice-president: youth to establish and sew these things into a more robust curriculum for all age grade coaches because hiring youth coordinators each season (four months) wasn't enough to instill these deep messages, if they even make it a focus.

I'm not sure youth coaches make it a priority when the focus is winning a league? The RFU had to bring a system-wide rule to ensure kids get at least half a game. Do coaches also talk about respect, fair play, controlled aggression, teamship, etc.?

RFU age grade tries to push TREDS. teamwork, respect, enjoyment, discipline, sportsmanship. Our kids parrot it every session and we also ask what it means and give examples of individual parts, or praise children for doing one of them during the session etc.

Raggs wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:11 pm

Niegs wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:42 pm

weegie01 wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:14 am

I know a guy who joined Melrose and is a famously niggly player prone to verbals. Some time ago, after one of his early matches, he was taken aside by the coach and told to stop it or he'll be dropped. Melrose had made decision that they they will enforce values of respect on the pitch, and whilst they may batter the opposition physically, all the little niggly stuff will stop. I have no idea if they sustained this. I am shooting with my sons this PM and will find out.

I appreciate hearing this!

In my role, I wondered where kids learned these values as it wasn't part of our 'curriculum' - the youth section is very new in this club. Most coaches are great, all good, and have the right attitude. Though I heard from a couple that two others might be taking things too seriously. We had a polite chat about values and aims. I recommended to the club once my internship ended that they need a vice-president: youth to establish and sew these things into a more robust curriculum for all age grade coaches because hiring youth coordinators each season (four months) wasn't enough to instill these deep messages, if they even make it a focus.

I'm not sure youth coaches make it a priority when the focus is winning a league? The RFU had to bring a system-wide rule to ensure kids get at least half a game. Do coaches also talk about respect, fair play, controlled aggression, teamship, etc.?

RFU age grade tries to push TREDS. teamwork, respect, enjoyment, discipline, sportsmanship. Our kids parrot it every session and we also ask what it means and give examples of individual parts, or praise children for doing one of them during the session etc.

I take it your club is not a feeder club to Sarries?

Raggs wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:11 pm
RFU age grade tries to push TREDS. teamwork, respect, enjoyment, discipline, sportsmanship. Our kids parrot it every session and we also ask what it means and give examples of individual parts, or praise children for doing one of them during the session etc.

Since we're "telling the truth", I dislike 'TREDS' a lot. Love that they're trying to lead values education from the top. But hate a forced and confusing acronym.

CARDS was the other one (Creativity, Awareness, Resilience, Decision-Making, Self-Organization), even worse I think because you don't want a 'card' in rugby!

I used to watch lots of Rugby even French D2. Now most of it is on pay TV I watch barely anything. Massively out of date and don't care.

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:41 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:32 am I like that being held up over the line results in a goal line drop out to the defence rather than an attacking scrum. It punishes unimaginative, repetitive pick and go attack. If teams aren't smart or skilful enough to get it wider and exploit space then they get what they deserve.

Specific water breaks called by the ref are a good thing that don't go far enough in keeping coaches off the pitch.

It was better when head contact was pretty much always a red. At the very least, we all knew where we stood. The current mitigation system they put in to try and appease some of the whinging about too many reds and lack of empathy for the players is an inconsistent mess that does very little either for the reputation of officials or for player safety.

I actually hate that bloody law change, it's not always the pick and go's that are held up. Sometimes it's clean line breaks with some brilliant rugby by the attacking team, with the scramble defence just able to make the tackle and holding the player up. Decision? Attacking team lose possession and defending team drop kick the ball down the field. For me, it takes all the momentum out of stage of the game. It's like reset button being pressed at key moments in the game.

I love it - rewards great defence and means we don't have to wait 5 minutes for the ball to come back into play

Ymx wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:36 pm Scrum penalties (and back slapping) have ruined scrums. It is a contest for a ball, not a contest for a penalty.

Reducing the tackle height would lead to more concussions. Too many hips, knees and multiple heads at the same height.

Attacking team should be allowed to go off feet beyond the ruck, and enter from the side.

Goal line drop out for held up over line is the most stupid stupid new law.

No scrum penalties? Are you an Aussie?

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 8:04 am Ffs, I feel jumping of a bridge reading all this negative crap. I must be living on a different planet , because I watched some cracking games this year. The URC, RC, AI and even some of the recent HC games have been top quality. What the actual fuck is wrong with you people, grow a fucking spine man. Bunch of whiney soft cocks.

This.

Fucking hell, what have they been watching?

As a 33 year old that only started watching the sport religiously from 2001/2002 onwards, the 2022 vintage is pish compared to what was the glory days (IMO) of 2002-2010.

When European rugby was awesome and you'd plan nothing during a HEC weekend so you could hear Stuart Barnes wanking himself into a frenzy about someone like Henry Paul or Barry Murphy, about how they should be shoe-ins for the next Lions tour.

I remember watching Leicester v Wasps play in the back to back December games in the HEC in 2004 (I think), and was utterly blown away by the quality and level of intensity/violence. Great fucking times

Irish thinking Ireland have always been good have destroyed rugby

Slick wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:32 pm Irish thinking Ireland have always been good have destroyed rugby

I'm one of those, but get a healthy reminder of our limitations every 4 years.

Chilli wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:22 pm

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 8:04 am Ffs, I feel jumping of a bridge reading all this negative crap. I must be living on a different planet , because I watched some cracking games this year. The URC, RC, AI and even some of the recent HC games have been top quality. What the actual fuck is wrong with you people, grow a fucking spine man. Bunch of whiney soft cocks.

This.

Fucking hell, what have they been watching?

There are some great games for sure, but mistakes have been made along the way in the law changes as we've grown into professionalism - we are some way off perfection.

The fitness and skill levels are off the charts compared to the amateur days, everyone expects tight five forwards to take and give a pass at full sprint now, as well as tackle and jackal on top of their duties at the scrum and line out. I could go on...

However, it's not the same sport as before, it's struggling at the grass roots level. Pro rugby will survive as long as there is an audience for it, worst case scenario is that the grass roots game dies out and it the sport becomes like American Football - no one plays if they don't make the pros.
That would be a shame.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:19 am The lions tours are destroying Welsh Rugby.
Wales haven't won a six nations after the Lions Tour in the pro era. Most of the time they cone 4th or 5th.
Oh the arguments I have had over this fact.


Wheeling out Dodie Weir and Joost Vanderweisstheisen and Rob Burrow, and a hundred more and calling them inspirations is utterrly disgusting and beyond contempt.
It is like a cigarette company wheeling out and applauding its cancer victims and then patting themselves on the back, for doing so.

Rugby caused their MND.

International rugby is a sop for nationalism and independence in NH countries, who's populations are only proud of their nations for 23 days a year, and it is designed to get it out of their system,

Rugby is corrupt as fuck.



And finally..nothing really matters to rugby supporters.

You are the most unremmitingly negative and bitter person I've ever come across.

Have a great Xmas and try and cheer up a tad.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:13 pm
However, it's not the same sport as before, it's struggling at the grass roots level. Pro rugby will survive as long as there is an audience for it, worst case scenario is that the grass roots game dies out and it the sport becomes like American Football - no one plays if they don't make the pros.
That would be a shame.

This is worrying me about the Canadian game in particular (maybe happening elsewhere too?).

There's an alarming number of people in my own small circle who quit the sport in their early 20s after being "on the pathway" for years and once uni's over and they realize they're not making any rep teams as an adult.

There's also a bunch of schools happily choosing 7s so they can just focus on their ideal athletes, closing the door to the kids rugby always welcomed here: chubby average athletes like me, the aggro kids needing a more controlled outlet (though some do end up in 7s), the misfits who never play any other sport but love the diverse mateship found in XVs rugby.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:13 pm

Chilli wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:22 pm

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 8:04 am Ffs, I feel jumping of a bridge reading all this negative crap. I must be living on a different planet , because I watched some cracking games this year. The URC, RC, AI and even some of the recent HC games have been top quality. What the actual fuck is wrong with you people, grow a fucking spine man. Bunch of whiney soft cocks.

This.

Fucking hell, what have they been watching?

There are some great games for sure, but mistakes have been made along the way in the law changes as we've grown into professionalism - we are some way off perfection.

The fitness and skill levels are off the charts compared to the amateur days, everyone expects tight five forwards to take and give a pass at full sprint now, as well as tackle and jackal on top of their duties at the scrum and line out. I could go on...

However, it's not the same sport as before, it's struggling at the grass roots level. Pro rugby will survive as long as there is an audience for it, worst case scenario is that the grass roots game dies out and it the sport becomes like American Football - no one plays if they don't make the pros.
That would be a shame.

Let them have their shiny things.

Some of us argued for years on the old bored about the flaws in the NZ game, the ABs especially. Shouted down by the 'look at the results' crowd...

same dynamic at play here.

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 1:46 am

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:13 pm

Chilli wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:22 pm

This.

Fucking hell, what have they been watching?

There are some great games for sure, but mistakes have been made along the way in the law changes as we've grown into professionalism - we are some way off perfection.

The fitness and skill levels are off the charts compared to the amateur days, everyone expects tight five forwards to take and give a pass at full sprint now, as well as tackle and jackal on top of their duties at the scrum and line out. I could go on...

However, it's not the same sport as before, it's struggling at the grass roots level. Pro rugby will survive as long as there is an audience for it, worst case scenario is that the grass roots game dies out and it the sport becomes like American Football - no one plays if they don't make the pros.
That would be a shame.

Let them have their shiny things.

Some of us argued for years on the old bored about the flaws in the NZ game, the ABs especially. Shouted down by the 'look at the results' crowd...

same dynamic at play here.

It’s the reason I’m utterly convinced amateur and pro rugby should go their separate ways. Different laws etc, and particularly because of what Niegs said above, to keep it a game for all

A Christmas gift from Carley, giving a penalty on halfway to LIR after Sarries' hooker did an unsportsmanlike gesture/scream after scoring. Someone in the comments said he also employed the under-used 'Back 10' call a couple of times vs them too?

There's hope that '23 will bring us a cleaner game!

How bout an extra point conversion nfl style? A 3 point conversion by taking a scrum (or tap) on the 5 where the try was scored. It won't be a long drawn out pick n go affair - the idea is to get the backs doing a slick preset move and as soon as someone gets tackled or a goes down with the ball, the attempt is over.

Won't take much more time than a conversion and we could see some nice plays for 3 points...

Hate Women's rugby being pushed as if it was in any way comparable with the mens game...

Niegs wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:12 pm A Christmas gift from Carley, giving a penalty on halfway to LIR after Sarries' hooker did an unsportsmanlike gesture/scream after scoring. Someone in the comments said he also employed the under-used 'Back 10' call a couple of times vs them too?

There's hope that '23 will bring us a cleaner game!

Carley had a very good game throughout. You'll probably also be glad to hear that after marching Sarries he informed Farrell that he wouldn't be taking input from any other players and seemed to stick with that. Gave Irish the same warning in due course too.

tc27 wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 9:47 pm Hate Women's rugby being pushed as if it was in any way comparable with the mens game...

Amen! The women's game isn't that bad yet!

sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 9:59 pm
Carley had a very good game throughout. You'll probably also be glad to hear that after marching Sarries he informed Farrell that he wouldn't be taking input from any other players and seemed to stick with that. Gave Irish the same warning in due course too.

The funny thing is that each of the last 3 times we've played Sarries they've been marched back 20 metres at some point for backchat. Each time has fully or partially involved Mako iirc. I guess he's a bit long in the tooth and doesn't give much of a shit any more, but if you were his coach you'd be tearing strips off him.

Niegs wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 9:59 pm

tc27 wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 9:47 pm Hate Women's rugby being pushed as if it was in any way comparable with the mens game...

Amen! The women's game isn't that bad yet!

A couple of tupenny worths on some of the subjects here:

My son is just coming back from a long injury. So he volunteered to ref two full days of a mini/junior tournament here - mainly reffing U9,10,11. He said that some of the sh#t he saw and heard from plenty of the adult coaches towards the refs and the kids under their charge was shockingly bad and will result in plenty of kids just giving up playing or reffing.

Some of these adults in particular should know better - they hold established positions in schools and even with the union. He even had one guy who's a union VP and referee committee member follow him back to the ref tent to harangue him for 30mins over one game/one decision.

then mid tournament, we've got coaches from school-affiliated clubs telling kids at independent clubs that they either switch teams now or wont get picked for the school team!

this is the same system that my son played in from 4yo to 17yo, that I still coach in and he's just starting to coach and ref in. So we've got plenty of thinking to to about CoC, values, suitability etc - for the adults more than the kids!! Luckily we've got a mgmt committee reshuffle coming up for 2023.

On the internationals - I recon I can count on one hand the number of England games I've watched since the world cup. I definitely don't stay up for them anymore. Would rather read a summary in the morning and then decide if I'm going to waste my time on another bore fest.

What I do still enjoy is the age grade stuff - U19/ U21 or whatever. Seems to be a better blend of positive intent plus pretty complete skillset at that age. Shame the positivity seems to disappear later on,.

Chrysoprase wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:58 pm I've given up watching professional rugby, it's tedious shite and these law changes aren't going to fix anything.

Me too - I think Covid killed the last remaining interest

Niegs wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:43 am

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:13 pm
However, it's not the same sport as before, it's struggling at the grass roots level. Pro rugby will survive as long as there is an audience for it, worst case scenario is that the grass roots game dies out and it the sport becomes like American Football - no one plays if they don't make the pros.
That would be a shame.

This is worrying me about the Canadian game in particular (maybe happening elsewhere too?).

There's an alarming number of people in my own small circle who quit the sport in their early 20s after being "on the pathway" for years and once uni's over and they realize they're not making any rep teams as an adult.

There's also a bunch of schools happily choosing 7s so they can just focus on their ideal athletes, closing the door to the kids rugby always welcomed here: chubby average athletes like me, the aggro kids needing a more controlled outlet (though some do end up in 7s), the misfits who never play any other sport but love the diverse mateship found in XVs rugby.

Fwiw my Dad always says he met with some RFU bigwigs around the dawn of professionalism and the American Football model of giving up rugby on leaving school to become consumers was explicitly their aim, and since then has insisted that every decision they make with the grassroots game has to be seen with that in mind.

It might just be the Eddie effect, but I'm far more enthused by club than international rugby these days.

sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:22 pm It might just be the Eddie effect, but I'm far more enthused by club than international rugby these days.

That happened to me in 2008 after a particularly crap England game in the 6 nations. I purchased a Quins season ticket shortly afterwards. Quins have been up and down but I've seen a lot of good games for much less money.

Also, Twickenham is a bit of a shit stadium.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:19 am The lions tours are destroying Welsh Rugby.
Wales haven't won a six nations after the Lions Tour in the pro era. Most of the time they cone 4th or 5th.
Oh the arguments I have had over this fact.


Wheeling out Dodie Weir and Joost Vanderweisstheisen and Rob Burrow, and a hundred more and calling them inspirations is utterrly disgusting and beyond contempt.
It is like a cigarette company wheeling out and applauding its cancer victims and then patting themselves on the back, for doing so.

Rugby caused their MND.

International rugby is a sop for nationalism and independence in NH countries, who's populations are only proud of their nations for 23 days a year, and it is designed to get it out of their system,

Rugby is corrupt as fuck.



And finally..nothing really matters to rugby supporters.

Spicy take there. The cause of MND remains unknown. People have tried to find associations with head injuries, but as far as I’m aware nobody has produced any conclusive evidence.

Nobody is suggesting that players don’t get nasty sequelae from repeated head injuries, but that doesn’t mean MND is necessarily among them.

My theory is MND is brought on by stimulant use.