NPR

Slick wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:25 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:40 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:37 pm

Not sure you have read the thread properly

I have. It's a very thoughtful thread. Surprisingly so. Lots of people willing to take a nuanced view even while (in most cases) recognising the severity of the crime. Somewhat out of kilter with most reactions to things like this, but one I appreciate.

Ahh. Apologies you not sarcastic bastard

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:28 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:25 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:40 pm

I have. It's a very thoughtful thread. Surprisingly so. Lots of people willing to take a nuanced view even while (in most cases) recognising the severity of the crime. Somewhat out of kilter with most reactions to things like this, but one I appreciate.

Ahh. Apologies you not sarcastic bastard

Oh no there was a tiny bit of bait in there, I'm not completely unfamiliar with forumming

weegie01 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:58 am McLean must have taken good biscuits to the sentencing hearing. He got 120 hours community service reduced from 200.

geordie_6 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:26 am

weegie01 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:58 am McLean must have taken good biscuits to the sentencing hearing. He got 120 hours community service reduced from 200.

I'm not entirely sure how Probation systems work in Scotland, but compared to the English system that is astonishly lenient.

For a similar offence in England, and others which also include physical violence, for a community punishment you'd be looking at something like 120hrs community service, plus a requirement to undertake specific work to address offending behaviour plus probation supervision across the length of the order (12-24 months).

Yr Alban wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:50 am

geordie_6 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:26 am

weegie01 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:58 am McLean must have taken good biscuits to the sentencing hearing. He got 120 hours community service reduced from 200.

I'm not entirely sure how Probation systems work in Scotland, but compared to the English system that is astonishly lenient.

For a similar offence in England, and others which also include physical violence, for a community punishment you'd be looking at something like 120hrs community service, plus a requirement to undertake specific work to address offending behaviour plus probation supervision across the length of the order (12-24 months).

Sorry, I’m genuinely confused here. You say 120 hours is lenient (which it is) but then say in England he’d have had the same number? Is that a typo?

Will be interesting to see if anyone is prepared to give him a playing contract after this.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:26 pm He will lose his job and his dream of playing for Scotland, he will also face some kind of punishment, but I hope he can get whatever counselling or help is deemed necessary.
No one else should have to suffer this abuse from him.

He may pick up another club outside of Scotland, he was an immensely promising young player, would I want him in my team? No.

geordie_6 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:18 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:50 am

geordie_6 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:26 am

I'm not entirely sure how Probation systems work in Scotland, but compared to the English system that is astonishly lenient.

For a similar offence in England, and others which also include physical violence, for a community punishment you'd be looking at something like 120hrs community service, plus a requirement to undertake specific work to address offending behaviour plus probation supervision across the length of the order (12-24 months).

Sorry, I’m genuinely confused here. You say 120 hours is lenient (which it is) but then say in England he’d have had the same number? Is that a typo?

Will be interesting to see if anyone is prepared to give him a playing contract after this.

Yeah sorry, I see what you mean.

My (attempted) point was that there seems to be nothing else other than 120hrs community service, whereas in rhe English system currently that would only form part of the overall punishment.

Jock42 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:45 am How does the training of others aspect work? I assume its not compulsory to be training kids as a pro player but is it a prerequisite to have a PVG etc?

weegie01 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:36 am I brought it over here as it seemed more appropriate, but the comments on the Scottish Rugby thread about what would be an appropriate gap before McLean returned made me wonder about what disclosures could be required by an employer. I know the information employers request is restricted, and was curious how it applied to him.

Had the sentence been just the 120 hours community service, he would only be required to reveal the conviction for 12 months after conviction for most jobs, other than those exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. But he got a 10 year non-harrassment order as well, and that extends the period to 10 years.

He will not get a job in the UK with that on his record. It is all well and good us talking about rehabilitation, paid his debt to society etc, but the reality is the zero tolerance policies in almost all firms will preclude him getting a job in that period. Unless it is a private firm who don't have to worry about HR policies and image so much.

The 10 year non-harrassment order is arguably a bigger punishment than the 120 hours community service as it extends the period he is essentially unemployable (and has to reveal his conviction on insurance and other purposes) from 1 to 10 years.

geordie_6 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:43 amIt depends on what he wants to do I guess. There are a lot more companies open to employing offenders and ex-offenders. He may have to work his way up and accept a lower wage than his playing salary (assuming that's behind him, which I'm not necessarily convinced), but he'll be by no means unemployable. Though I accept that his public status ("celebrity?") would be another obstacle to factor in.

weegie01 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:28 pm

geordie_6 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:43 amIt depends on what he wants to do I guess. There are a lot more companies open to employing offenders and ex-offenders. He may have to work his way up and accept a lower wage than his playing salary (assuming that's behind him, which I'm not necessarily convinced), but he'll be by no means unemployable. Though I accept that his public status ("celebrity?") would be another obstacle to factor in.

Fair points. I think his status as 'shamed rugby star' will count against him.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:26 pm I've hesitated commenting on this for a couple of reasons but one is because I didn't want to be misunderstood.

First, I hope there is a restraining order put in place so that he doesn't try to contact the young woman ever again, if that is her choice. Also I'll say that no one should go through what she had to, it's unimaginable to most men the everyday misogyny and sexism women go through, let alone something like this from the person who should be the one she can rely on, that is a betrayal on a huge scale.

I hope she can get any help she might want.

I think this kind of "ultra jealousy" and controlling behaviour is not normal, there must be a psychological blip somewhere that makes some men act like this. Some women too.

He will lose his job and his dream of playing for Scotland, he will also face some kind of punishment, but I hope he can get whatever counselling or help is deemed necessary.
No one else should have to suffer this abuse from him.

I believe in rehabilitation, I think I'm right in saying that the more liberal criminal justice systems have lower recidivism rates.

He may pick up another club outside of Scotland, he was an immensely promising young player, would I want him in my team? No.

LenCohen wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:04 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:26 pm I've hesitated commenting on this for a couple of reasons but one is because I didn't want to be misunderstood.

First, I hope there is a restraining order put in place so that he doesn't try to contact the young woman ever again, if that is her choice. Also I'll say that no one should go through what she had to, it's unimaginable to most men the everyday misogyny and sexism women go through, let alone something like this from the person who should be the one she can rely on, that is a betrayal on a huge scale.

I hope she can get any help she might want.

I think this kind of "ultra jealousy" and controlling behaviour is not normal, there must be a psychological blip somewhere that makes some men act like this. Some women too.

He will lose his job and his dream of playing for Scotland, he will also face some kind of punishment, but I hope he can get whatever counselling or help is deemed necessary.
No one else should have to suffer this abuse from him.

I believe in rehabilitation, I think I'm right in saying that the more liberal criminal justice systems have lower recidivism rates.

He may pick up another club outside of Scotland, he was an immensely promising young player, would I want him in my team? No.

She had apparently slept with three of his teammates whilst going out with him which might have been at the root of his jealous behaviour. Obviously that doesn't even slightly excuse the apparent extremes he took things to