NPR

Double post!

Jock42 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:35 am

inactionman wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:33 am

Anyway, I'll stop making it all about us English now.

You craic on. Come 1845 on sat it won't be so best get it in now.

We can share GQTK, you know.

(not all of it - how on earth it once had a call to crush rebellious Scots in it I'll never know - I think that was only formally removed about 15 years ago?)

Not a Hibee but this makes my hair stand on end!

inactionman wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:40 am

Jock42 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:35 am

inactionman wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:33 am

Anyway, I'll stop making it all about us English now.

You craic on. Come 1845 on sat it won't be so best get it in now.

We can share GQTK, you know.

(not all of it - how on earth it once had a call to crush rebellious Scots in it I'll never know - I think that was only formally removed about 15 years ago?)

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush!
God save the King!


I've heard it argued that the verse was only a temporary addition, and that there was sometimes a bit about the French king in it too.

Never really understood all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over anthems. Some are great for the crowd to get into and kick off the atmosphere - FoS and La Marseillaise among them. Others aren't so hot. GSTK/GSTQ always gets brickbats but it's one of the shortest anthems around, always seemed really weird how much hate it gets as an anthem.

A much more fun topic is: The Haka - It's Boring Now, Right?

As much as I revile GSTQ (shit tune, appeals to a deity and ruling instititution I don't believe in), I can't think of anything better. Almost all the other tunes people suggest have strong Christian overtones which, leaving aside my own feelings on religion, I think is deeply unsuitable if you have any notion of the anthem being somewhat representative of the nation given how steeply Christianity is in decline. The recent census data showed just under half the country identify that way, but that's still massively overstating it given average church attendances.

In the absence of a better option, I revert to my earlier idea of scrapping the anthem altogether.

sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:53 am As much as I revile GSTQ (shit tune, appeals to a deity and ruling instititution I don't believe in), I can't think of anything better. Almost all the other tunes people suggest have strong Christian overtones which, leaving aside my own feelings on religion, I think is deeply unsuitable if you have any notion of the anthem being somewhat representative of the nation given how steeply Christianity is in decline. The recent census data showed just under half the country identify that way, but that's still massively overstating it given average church attendances.

In the absence of a better option, I revert to my earlier idea of scrapping the anthem altogether.

That's exactly why I'm always completely bewildered by the love for Jerusalem. Dirge, Christianity, it's a full anthem bullshit bingo card.

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:51 am Never really understood all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over anthems. Some are great for the crowd to get into and kick off the atmosphere - FoS and La Marseillaise among them. Others aren't so hot. GSTK/GSTQ always gets brickbats but it's one of the shortest anthems around, always seemed really weird how much hate it gets as an anthem.

It's brevity in how it is played is its one strong point.- though it shouldn't really be England's anthem.

A much more fun topic is: The Haka - It's Boring Now, Right?

I like the Haka, it's one of the great spectacles in the game.

I'm not sure it travels well, though. I saw the NZ basketball team do the Haka in front of a rather bemused USA team who went on the win by about a thousand points.

Plus, I always feel a bit sorry for the subs who get themselves hyped to the rafters, almost bleeding from the eyes, and then they have to go and sit down.

Apparently the acapella second (actually the third verse as the second is skipped - lyrics below for the unwashed) of FoS came about by accident.

After playing two verses for aeons, the SRU decided to drop to one. The band stopped after the first, but no-one had told the crowd so they kept on going. And it was so impressive it stuck. Allegedly.

The Hills are bare now,
And Autumn leaves
lie thick and still,
O'er land that is lost now,
Which those so dearly held,
That stood against them,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent them homeward,
Tae think again.

LenCohen wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:12 pm Party Fears 2 for me

There is an endless line of tragic Scottish artists vying for the role. Mackenzie (Sulk), Rafferty (Get It Right Next Time), Adamson (Chance), Quinn {who might still be alive at least} (Breaking Point).

clydecloggie wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:58 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:53 am As much as I revile GSTQ (shit tune, appeals to a deity and ruling instititution I don't believe in), I can't think of anything better. Almost all the other tunes people suggest have strong Christian overtones which, leaving aside my own feelings on religion, I think is deeply unsuitable if you have any notion of the anthem being somewhat representative of the nation given how steeply Christianity is in decline. The recent census data showed just under half the country identify that way, but that's still massively overstating it given average church attendances.

In the absence of a better option, I revert to my earlier idea of scrapping the anthem altogether.

That's exactly why I'm always completely bewildered by the love for Jerusalem. Dirge, Christianity, it's a full anthem bullshit bingo card.

It's a metaphor, and it's about making the country better and not crushing, conquering or otherwise being bastards. So a definite improvement in that regard.

We've also got quite wildly differing views on what a dirge is.

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:51 am A much more fun topic is: The Haka - It's Boring Now, Right?

Now? It became a bore even before the Plastic Haka was introduced.

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:35 am

Slick wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:10 am

inactionman wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:21 am

I'm torn on this.

Ultimately, 6N and other Tests should be a bit special, a bit of an occasion.

Although I'm probably with you in that I've mumbled my way through so many GSTQ its feeling a bit of a chore now.

I love the anthems, always rush to get there before they start. Hasn’t La M got some very dodgy lyrics?

only if you classify "letting the furrows in the fields run with the impure blood of our enemies" as dodgy

Our camp fires now are burning low
See in the east a silv'ry glow
Out yonder waits the Saxon foe
So chant a soldier's song

Who on earth could this refer to ?

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:35 am

Slick wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:10 am

inactionman wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:21 am

I'm torn on this.

Ultimately, 6N and other Tests should be a bit special, a bit of an occasion.

Although I'm probably with you in that I've mumbled my way through so many GSTQ its feeling a bit of a chore now.

I love the anthems, always rush to get there before they start. Hasn’t La M got some very dodgy lyrics?

only if you classify "letting the furrows in the fields run with the impure blood of our enemies" as dodgy

I thought there was also something about chopping heads off, which I don't condone, even English heads. Apart from Austin Healy.

Was thinking earlier, if England need a new anthem perhaps they could get a nice folk song written about Clive Woodward and Dayglo, that would get the blood pumping.

Anthems should only be sung in their native language..

Torq: I have a lot of time for the Haka, honestly, but there's something to be said for scarcity. And the broadcast media don't help. I guess I feel a bit jaded about what used to be a genuinely superb and unique spectacle, but now it feels very forced and sometimes the commentators are almost hectoring people to enjoy it. It used to speak for itself.

Maybe I'm just old and grumpy and have seen the same thing too often. Too much rugby causes a lot of ills.

Can never understand the people who back Scotland the Brave as an anthem. It's the worst kind of heuchter teuchter shortbread tin Walter Scott wanking off a westie bollocks.

FoS is so good (IMO) that it essentially created the test for what makes a great anthem: If you can stop the band and the singer and let the crowd get on with it and for it to be a hair-raising experience.

For all that La Marseillaise is a great tune and a riot of a song, FoS and Land Of My Fathers are unbeatable under that metric.

I think we can all agree that both Aussie songs are risible, the NZ anthem is as dull as you'd expect, the other Latin ones are far too long, and the less said about the Irish the better.

edit: The joys of working from home: I am now playing Youtube videos for the Scottish and Welsh anthems

I've no idea what the words are all about but I like the Argentinian National Anthem

Slick wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:33 am

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:35 am

Slick wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:10 am

I love the anthems, always rush to get there before they start. Hasn’t La M got some very dodgy lyrics?

only if you classify "letting the furrows in the fields run with the impure blood of our enemies" as dodgy

I thought there was also something about chopping heads off, which I don't condone, even English heads. Apart from Austin Healy.

Was thinking earlier, if England need a new anthem perhaps they could get a nice folk song written about Clive Woodward and Dayglo, that would get the blood pumping.

In think it's French people cutting off French heads, so that's something we can all get behind.

Shame they're generally massive twats, and not on topic of 6N, but the Russian anthem is pretty tidy.

Land of my Fathers is very tuneful but I can't get into it, sometimes I think it's written in a different language or something

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:01 pm Land of my Fathers is very tuneful but I can't get into it, sometimes I think it's written in a different language or something

Not knowing the words hasn't stopped half the Welsh fans getting into it

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:02 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:01 pm Land of my Fathers is very tuneful but I can't get into it, sometimes I think it's written in a different language or something

Not knowing the words hasn't stopped half the Welsh fans getting into it

And of course it gives the twats in the pubs and clubs across the U.K. the chance to sing that hilarious version about bloody great fishes

Which I may or may not have done in the past

inactionman wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:00 pm

Slick wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:33 am

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:35 am


only if you classify "letting the furrows in the fields run with the impure blood of our enemies" as dodgy

I thought there was also something about chopping heads off, which I don't condone, even English heads. Apart from Austin Healy.

Was thinking earlier, if England need a new anthem perhaps they could get a nice folk song written about Clive Woodward and Dayglo, that would get the blood pumping.

In think it's French people cutting off French heads, so that's something we can all get behind.

Shame they're generally massive twats, and not on topic of 6N, but the Russian anthem is pretty tidy.

I think that line is actually meant to be about the blood of the Prussians invading France to resore the monarchy. There is also a line about traitors and standing up to tyranny. Most anthems will be about glorifying the nation, unity, and standing up to tyrants or other threats.

Das Deutschlandlied also celebrates German women, wine and song, but it was originally meant to be a drinking song. GSTK is all about how amazing King Charles is and how incredibly lucky we are to be his subjects. It's total shite.

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:42 am Torq: I have a lot of time for the Haka, honestly, but there's something to be said for scarcity. And the broadcast media don't help. I guess I feel a bit jaded about what used to be a genuinely superb and unique spectacle, but now it feels very forced and sometimes the commentators are almost hectoring people to enjoy it. It used to speak for itself.

Maybe I'm just old and grumpy and have seen the same thing too often. Too much rugby causes a lot of ills.

A lot of folk in NZ feel the same way. It is now a marketing tool for the NZRU - it feels overplayed, overlong and over produced.

I would love the Haka to go back to being challenged, encroached upon, drowned out, ignored.....you name it. Where before the arguments of it being 'too long' used to feel forced as it was only 30 seconds extra - but now with the extended version (all the fussing around before Ka Mate) and the awful Kapa O Pango - it is just out of control.

Give me Ka Mate everytime with opposing props getting up in the faces of the AB's for 30 seconds of intense fun.

Thor Sedan wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:21 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:42 am Torq: I have a lot of time for the Haka, honestly, but there's something to be said for scarcity. And the broadcast media don't help. I guess I feel a bit jaded about what used to be a genuinely superb and unique spectacle, but now it feels very forced and sometimes the commentators are almost hectoring people to enjoy it. It used to speak for itself.

Maybe I'm just old and grumpy and have seen the same thing too often. Too much rugby causes a lot of ills.

A lot of folk in NZ feel the same way. It is now a marketing tool for the NZRU - it feels overplayed, overlong and over produced.

I would love the Haka to go back to being challenged, encroached upon, drowned out, ignored.....you name it. Where before the arguments of it being 'too long' used to feel forced as it was only 30 seconds extra - but now with the extended version (all the fussing around before Ka Mate) and the awful Kapa O Pango - it is just out of control.

Give me Ka Mate everytime with opposing props getting up in the faces of the AB's for 30 seconds of intense fun.

The haka for the rugby team is great but it's when the see The All Black Fearn Tiddlywinkers doing it, it just becomes bloody ridiculous.

Slick wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:15 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:02 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:01 pm Land of my Fathers is very tuneful but I can't get into it, sometimes I think it's written in a different language or something

Not knowing the words hasn't stopped half the Welsh fans getting into it

And of course it gives the twats in the pubs and clubs across the U.K. the chance to sing that hilarious version about bloody great fishes

Which I may or may not have done in the past

never heard of it, and wouldn't do such a thing myself

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:45 am

inactionman wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:40 am

Jock42 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:35 am

You craic on. Come 1845 on sat it won't be so best get it in now.

We can share GQTK, you know.

(not all of it - how on earth it once had a call to crush rebellious Scots in it I'll never know - I think that was only formally removed about 15 years ago?)

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush!
God save the King!


I've heard it argued that the verse was only a temporary addition, and that there was sometimes a bit about the French king in it too.

That additional verse was written at the time of the Jacobite rebellion and was intended as a prayer for the success of Marshal Wade's army. It was never really part of the official anthem, although has occasionally been included as an optional additional in some published versions. The confusion probably stems from its inclusion in the Oxford Book of Eighteenth-Century Verse published in 1926.

Incidentally, there was also a pro-Jacobite verse produced at about the same time:

God bless the prince, I pray,
God bless the prince, I pray,
Charlie I mean;
That Scotland we may see
Freed from vile Presbyt'ry,
Both George and his Feckie,
Ever so, Amen.

There was also a republican version produced in 1794 (possibly where the reference to the French King comes from):

God save the Guillotine
Till England's King and Queen
Her power shall prove:
Till each appointed knob
Affords a clipping job
Let no vile halter rob
The Guillotine

France, let thy trumpet sound –
Tell all the world around
How Capet fell;
And when great George's poll
Shall in the basket roll,
Let mercy then control
The Guillotine

When all the sceptre'd crew
Have paid their Homage, due
The Guillotine
Let Freedom's flag advance
Till all the world, like France
O'er tyrants' graves shall dance
And peace begin.

While not knowing the words of the other team's song (frequently), I stand and try to sing along as best I can. It is about being polite afterall. They have their beliefs and we have ours. We should not assume theirs is wrong and ours is right.

But FoS is a durge. While some might think of passions that the memories evoke, I think the Italian and other up-beat tempos, get the team off to a fast start. And Scotland are frequently catching up as the were still on the bus when the game started.

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:43 pm

Slick wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:15 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:02 pm

Not knowing the words hasn't stopped half the Welsh fans getting into it

And of course it gives the twats in the pubs and clubs across the U.K. the chance to sing that hilarious version about bloody great fishes

Which I may or may not have done in the past

Spoiler

Show

♫ Whales, Whales,
fuckin great fishes are whales
They swim in the sea
Eat plankton for tea
Oh fuckin great fishes are whales ♫

never heard of it, and wouldn't do such a thing myself

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:35 am

Slick wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:10 am

inactionman wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:21 am

I'm torn on this.

Ultimately, 6N and other Tests should be a bit special, a bit of an occasion.

Although I'm probably with you in that I've mumbled my way through so many GSTQ its feeling a bit of a chore now.

I love the anthems, always rush to get there before they start. Hasn’t La M got some very dodgy lyrics?

only if you classify "letting the furrows in the fields run with the impure blood of our enemies" as dodgy

Well we gave the rosbiff an ode to Louis XIV Anal Fistula

vball wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:05 pm I think the Italian and other up-beat tempos, get the team off to a fast start.

Italian and Argentinian anthems are based on Military band music and I just can't get Fascists out of my head when I hear them.

vball wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:05 pm While not knowing the words of the other team's song (frequently), I stand and try to sing along as best I can. It is about being polite afterall. They have their beliefs and we have ours. We should not assume theirs is wrong and ours is right.

But FoS is a durge. While some might think of passions that the memories evoke, I think the Italian and other up-beat tempos, get the team off to a fast start. And Scotland are frequently catching up as the were still on the bus when the game started.

If you think FoS is a dirge what do you think of GSTK?

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:41 pm

vball wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:05 pm I think the Italian and other up-beat tempos, get the team off to a fast start.

Italian and Argentinian anthems are based on Military band music and I just can't get Fascists out of my head when I hear them.

It's like the old Billy Connolly routine about the same subject
"We're from Gibrovia and we don't give a shit"

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:51 am Never really understood all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over anthems. Some are great for the crowd to get into and kick off the atmosphere - FoS and La Marseillaise among them. Others aren't so hot. GSTK/GSTQ always gets brickbats but it's one of the shortest anthems around, always seemed really weird how much hate it gets as an anthem.

A much more fun topic is: The Haka - It's Boring Now, Right?

Each to their own, ofc, but yeah, I find it very boring

Simian wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:16 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:51 am Never really understood all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over anthems. Some are great for the crowd to get into and kick off the atmosphere - FoS and La Marseillaise among them. Others aren't so hot. GSTK/GSTQ always gets brickbats but it's one of the shortest anthems around, always seemed really weird how much hate it gets as an anthem.

A much more fun topic is: The Haka - It's Boring Now, Right?

Each to their own, ofc, but yeah, I find it very boring

Ka Mate is the perfect length to pop to the loo for a quick piss before kick-off.

Calculon wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:19 pm I like it

And here is a song she wrote aboutt he experience of singing FoS at Hampden.

Biffer wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:44 am Can never understand the people who back Scotland the Brave as an anthem. It's the worst kind of heuchter teuchter shortbread tin Walter Scott wanking off a westie bollocks.

You are dead to me - speaking as a teuchter.

weegie01 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:18 pm

Biffer wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:44 am Can never understand the people who back Scotland the Brave as an anthem. It's the worst kind of heuchter teuchter shortbread tin Walter Scott wanking off a westie bollocks.

You are dead to me - speaking as a teuchter.

I'm a highlander too

Wait, was it that or are you a fan of wanking off westies?

SaintK wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:00 pm I've no idea what the words are all about but I like the Argentinian National Anthem

It's fabulous. I remember it from the 2007 rwc. It got the players and fans all revved up with a fantastic crescendo and then the rest of the anthem played.